To be honest, I'm rather dissappointed...

[_Phloat_]

I main Mewtwo.... and I can beat anyone i've ever played in my life. Tiers dont matter.

That is ignorant and wrong. Your friends are not you, you must have better skill too win, saying tiers are wrong is saying all characters are perfectly equal, which is simply not true. Where have you gone and beaten all these people, no one has even heard of you, get of your high horse please. Don't just say something is wrong and give a worthless, non provable example.

I just want to point out really quickly that there's pretty much no fighting game that doesn't have some sort of tier list. Their will always be a character that will be better in skill level and what not than the others, no matter the developers' hopes.

I also wanted to say that from all the in game footage that we've seen recently, we haven't really gotten any idea if any characters has been nerfed or anything. A lot of the previews just talk about the Smash Ball, and how the game feels, but not specific characters and such. For example, Kirby(who is not playable in the demos) could be returned to the powerhouse he was in 64.

We don't know until we actually get to play, or get some in depth impressions

I agree, and I might as well add..

Kirby's Down a is the same in melee and 64, as far as looks go. Anyone who has played the game would know that kirby's in 64 is waaay better. They don't have to change the moves to change the moves.

Although the veterans look like they have similar moves, simple changes in things like hitboxes, knockback, and priority can change the way the character is played.

True, not much more to say here.

Personally I think that the little changes they are making should be enough to set tee difference between Melee and Brawl. Some characters should have their base stats changed (speed, weight, power) but their actual moves can stay the same. That's how we'll fix characters like Mewtwo, Ness, and Zelda.

P.S. Tiers are overglorified and pointless. On the official tier list is says "based on PERFORMANCE IN TOURNAMENTS" that just means that the better players tend to play as Fox, Marth, and Sheik. That just means the most popular way of skill relies on speed, but that doesn't mean character like G&W, Mewtwo, or even Pichu are worthless. Smash isn't completely balanced, but it is one of the most balanced fighters out there, despite what some people say.
But that isn't the topic of discussion here, is it?

Pointless? The tier list isn't telling anyone who to play, and it certainly is not the only factor in matches, but saying it does not exist is not a good argument, and saying it is pointless makes no sense, it is the characters.

Too lazy to write a paragraph.
1. We don't even know the final product of the game.
2. Although some characters appear to be similar they may have changed a lot of mechanics of their movesets like the differences from Fox -> Falco right now they appear to be similar in animation but lets not be so shallow. I don't mind the old movesets, Smash Bros is about nostalgia right lol, the tweaks they added to the characters are good enough for me.
3. Some characters may even be total remakes such as Lucas/Ike but I haven't heard much news on them, so it would be playing Ness and Marth like never before.
4. Smash Bros is supposed to be a party game, not necessarily a competitive game, to be honest who gives a **** on tiers, if someone doesn't want to get owned than they can play with people at their skill level, and if people want a challenge than go metagame. Competitive fighting games will always have tiers *rolls eyes*

I agree with the bulk of this

 

[mkmelee]

I understand the effects of tweaks. The difference in Fox's and Falco's shines are huge, and hence they play completely differently. Something like C. Falcon's Knee only knocking the opponent up (like Marth's fair) is huge. He can't rely so much on this move anymore, and he has to adapt to the disadvantages and small advantages of this change.

And as I'm sure you agree with, dramatic improvement doesn't mean huge change. Kirby's dair change was a dramatic disadvantage with just a simple tweak.

 

[mkmelee]

Yeah my point sucks. I still stand by everything I said, but they haven't even shown that any of the tweaks and changes will make the game/characters better or worse. I have very little to stand on. Of course i still want improvements but I spewed out this topic with little reason, other than my own desires.

Anyways, if you actually read everything I said, you'll probably agree that Smash does need these things, assuming of course that you're not ignorant, illiterate, and/or just plain unintelligent.

 

[Zeela12]

SO what? this is what the game is, deal with it. If you can't, then go cry a river and never play again. Less wusses for Brawl means more gaming for the rest of us.


Tiers matter very slightly if you're not competing, Capt. Jack can probably 4 stock me with DK, and I'll be lucky if I did damage to him at all.

If you don't like losing, then get better. If you're skills are higher than the opponante, it doesn't matter if youre tier is low. And if you don't feel like getting better, then go use fox or something.

 

[Hydde]

and what if both players are equally skilled and i got 3 stocked because i used bowser and the other used sheik? may i ask?

 

[mkmelee]

SO what? this is what the game is, deal with it. If you can't, then go cry a river and never play again. Less wusses for Brawl means more gaming for the rest of us.


Tiers matter very slightly if you're not competing, Capt. Jack can probably 4 stock me with DK, and I'll be lucky if I did damage to him at all.

If you don't like losing, then get better. If you're skills are higher than the opponante, it doesn't matter if youre tier is low. And if you don't feel like getting better, then go use fox or something.

Lol, I won't even bless you with an attempt to bring you out of your pool of ignorance.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Tiers will always exist despite any minor or major balances in the game. Characters will always have a distinct advantage over another character despite any major improvements, and some characters are just flawed in themselves.

Take the Match up of Marth vs. Ness for example. Even though it may seem like the characters strengths were intentionally designed, it's because their "natural attributes" came into priority.

Ness is a small young boy. Being as such, he has small grab range, and is a fairly slow person. This is what we can consider a natural attribute. Marth is a swordsman. He has a disjointed hitbox and is highly agile. Now, everything else beyond natural attributes contributes towards the character specfic abilities. Many of Ness's attacks are projetile based, but generally slow, along with his normal attacks(Which have bad range despite his dash attack).Marth's attacks inflict low damage (Except for a tip). His grab range is possibly the result of an error in his hitbox design. Every character has a flawed design based on their games etc., but in the days of N64, most characters were good based on hit stun and broken hit boxes(Even though that may seem as if that does still exist, it's effects aren't as abusive). Now, compair other characters natural attributes; the results will always favor:

Speed > Range (2 Marth Attributes, 1 Fox Attribute, 2 Sheik Attributes, 1 C.Falcon Attribute, 1 Peach Attribute)

HitBox = Power (2 Peach Attribute, 2 Sheik Attributes, 2 Fox Attributes, 2 Falco Attributes,2 Marth Attributes)

Range > Power( 1 Marth Attribute)

HitBox = Range (Marth)

HitBox = Speed(Fox)

HitBox = Technical(Falco)

Speed > Power( 1 Fox attribute, 2 Sheik Attributes, 1 Marth Attribute, 2 C.Falcon Attributes, 1 Falco Attribute)

Technical > Power (2 Falco Attributes, 1 Fox Attributes, 2 Peach Attributes, 2 Ice Climber Attributes)

Technical = Speed (2 Fox Attributes, 2 Falco Attributes)

Range > Technical (1 Marth Attrubute, 1 Sheik Attribute)

Generally, Hitboxes are tied in priority with everything.

On a side note: Alot of people expected Fox to be a low-mid tier character because of his natural design flaws, but his speed, natural technical attributes and hitboxes caused him to be very powerful.

In this case, Power really can't beat anything, which explains why most power characters are Low Tier:

DK
Bowser
Roy
Zelda

Characters that are moderatly fast, but generally have flawed moves that can't be utilized effectively are also Low Tier:

Pikachu
Yoshi
Ness
MewTwo
Young Link

Characters with average power, but don't have any distinct advantages are usually low-mid tier:

Luigi
Link
Kirby

ANother thing that contributes to a good character lies in a characters ability to adapt to a situation. Sure, some noobs on the forums may say "I beat my friends with (insert low tier character), so tiers don't exist", but that's a biased and generally uneducated response. Sure, you can beat a Fox with Zelda, but in oredr to do that, you must be at the peak of technical perfection in order to beat an average Fox player. Opting for perfection in a Smash Bros. match is difficult because no one can be perfectly technical without still having flawed outcomes.

Now characters such as Fox are high tier because he has the ability to act to each situation accordingly. This is something that contrubtes to tiers in smash; the ability to act to every possible situation.

 

[mkmelee]

WOW. Haha thanks for that. I mean I realized all that but couldn't have put it in better words myself without a few hours of work.

 

[specialsauce]

well if aint aint broke dont fix it and alot of the things in melee were awesome so why change that the overall gameplay was great and t seems that all they have done is tweaked it to make it flow even better the game already hads more new modes than melee and weve only seen half of what is to come, sonic in brawl which is amazing and the graphics are fantastic and the game still runs just as smooth im rather excited about it oh and now theres online even the little stuff like being able to take picture during fights isgreat i cant wait the only thing im dissipointed about is the new fe 10 release date but im sure that the wait will be well worth it cuz there goin all out at makin this game and with a few extra onths the game can go from amazing to blow ur mind for the next 10 years

 

[mkmelee]

Have you heard of periods? Obviously I don't mean to change things that were great about Melee.

As I said before, what's a sequel that doesn't make good improvements over its predecessor?

 

[thesage]

Read please.

How do you tweak Ness's up-b so he has fairer matchups against tough characters/players in competitive play?

Well there's not much you can do when your using the same slow, restricted and situational up-b as a base.

Other characters can use solely tweaks. Kirby can actually spike, and his aerials (in particular his forward) could have longer range/ more useful effects.

Ness' up-b is definetely not his main weakness. A way to tweak is to make it travel longer, keep the high priority and range it has at the beginning of the attack, and make it so you can tech it when he hits the stage. Now he has an uber recovery that has the start up time of fox's up-b.

Tiers will always exist despite any minor or major balances in the game. Characters will always have a distinct advantage over another character despite any major improvements, and some characters are just flawed in themselves.

Take the Match up of Marth vs. Ness for example. Even though it may seem like the characters strengths were intentionally designed, it's because their "natural attributes" came into priority.

Ness is a small young boy. Being as such, he has small grab range, and is a fairly slow person. This is what we can consider a natural attribute. Marth is a swordsman. He has a disjointed hitbox and is highly agile. Now, everything else beyond natural attributes contributes towards the character specfic abilities. Many of Ness's attacks are projetile based, but generally slow, along with his normal attacks(Which have bad range despite his dash attack).Marth's attacks inflict low damage (Except for a tip). His grab range is possibly the result of an error in his hitbox design. Every character has a flawed design based on their games etc., but in the days of N64, most characters were good based on hit stun and broken hit boxes(Even though that may seem as if that does still exist, it's effects aren't as abusive). Now, compair other characters natural attributes; the results will always favor:

Speed > Range (2 Marth Attributes, 1 Fox Attribute, 2 Sheik Attributes, 1 C.Falcon Attribute, 1 Peach Attribute)

HitBox = Power (2 Peach Attribute, 2 Sheik Attributes, 2 Fox Attributes, 2 Falco Attributes,2 Marth Attributes)

Range > Power( 1 Marth Attribute)

HitBox = Range (Marth)

HitBox = Speed(Fox)

HitBox = Technical(Falco)

Speed > Power( 1 Fox attribute, 2 Sheik Attributes, 1 Marth Attribute, 2 C.Falcon Attributes, 1 Falco Attribute)

Technical > Power (2 Falco Attributes, 1 Fox Attributes, 2 Peach Attributes, 2 Ice Climber Attributes)

Technical = Speed (2 Fox Attributes, 2 Falco Attributes)

Range > Technical (1 Marth Attrubute, 1 Sheik Attribute)

Generally, Hitboxes are tied in priority with everything.

On a side note: Alot of people expected Fox to be a low-mid tier character because of his natural design flaws, but his speed, natural technical attributes and hitboxes caused him to be very powerful.

In this case, Power really can't beat anything, which explains why most power characters are Low Tier:

DK
Bowser
Roy
Zelda

Characters that are moderatly fast, but generally have flawed moves that can't be utilized effectively are also Low Tier:

Pikachu
Yoshi
Ness
MewTwo
Young Link

Characters with average power, but don't have any distinct advantages are usually low-mid tier:

Luigi
Link
Kirby

ANother thing that contributes to a good character lies in a characters ability to adapt to a situation. Sure, some noobs on the forums may say "I beat my friends with (insert low tier character), so tiers don't exist", but that's a biased and generally uneducated response. Sure, you can beat a Fox with Zelda, but in oredr to do that, you must be at the peak of technical perfection in order to beat an average Fox player. Opting for perfection in a Smash Bros. match is difficult because no one can be perfectly technical without still having flawed outcomes.

Now characters such as Fox are high tier because he has the ability to act to each situation accordingly. This is something that contrubtes to tiers in smash; the ability to act to every possible situation.

You have a good argument, butsome of your character specific stuff is kinda wrong, and your opinion of Ness' Marth matchup. Kirby is definetely not a power character. He probably is one of the weakest characters in the game. Pikachu is one of the fastest characters in the game, he is low tier cause he has no range in his arials. Luigi is low tier cause he is easily gayed by his recovery and easily combo'd. Dk and Luigi are generally considered to be mid tier now. The only good thing about Mewtwo is his recovery and that nobody knows how to play against him. Ness would shoot up the tiers if he had a viable cc'ing game, and his old grab range and nair back. Roy is actually not a power character, he can be almost as fast as Marth. His game is centered on combos, DED, and d-tilt. All of which can be avoided, plus his recovery stinks. If you consider Roy a power character you have to consider Pikachu one cause he is tied with fox to have the most powerful viable upsmash in the game (ganondorf's does more damage, but only if both of his feet hit). GaW is low tier because he's lightweight and has no defensive game. I could say more but you get my picture.

Let's look at the top tiers. Fox is the fastes character in the game, is really strong, has a good recovery, has really good combos (some of them are infinates). His only downfall is that he is easily combo'd and he's a little light. Falco, same has fox, except that he has an ADVANTAGE OVER FOX and Ness' old spike for ssb64. He is also easily combo'd. Shiek is fast, has really good tilts and arials, good combos with d-throw, and an ok recovery. Her/His problem is that she is easily punished after recovering if she doesn't sweetspot and she can be easy to combo with some characters. Marth is an extremrely powerful character with lots of range and good combos. His only problem is that he is lightweight and has somewhat of a killing problem if his opponent lives past 130%. Peach has a broken d-smash, fc'ing, can be played really fast with adv. techs, she has one of the best recoveries in the game, and is really powerful. The only problem with her is that her recovery is somewhat predictable and she is really lightweight.

 

[thesage]

No, and I'm sure there's a good reason why. Maybe because I'm not a G&W main/fan and that he hasn't won any of the top tournaments.

Seriously, I know some people seem to transcend tiers with their amazing low tiers. (See Fumi's Yoshi). However, that doesn't mean that they avoid all the difficulties that the low tiers experience under the hands of more blessed characters. They just have to put extra effort, strategy, and uniqueness to maintain victories.

Even still, it's rarely enough, especially in terms of top tournaments.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7K2v41rh9oE

That's who dire vulcan is. Yes it's a long time ago, but it's seriously not impossible for a low tier to be good. Bum got second in a major tournament with DK. That's why DK is mid tier now.

Edit: I didin't mean to double post. I clicked the wrong button. SORRY!

Ice Climbers used to be low tier until chudat. A lot of people think that Ness could be way better. Look at this vid: http://youtube.com/watch?v=JPsV-1tZ8BA And this guy doesn't even play Ness anymore and there are people starting to become just as good as him. With adv. techs and if you're good enough, low tier players can overcome the matchups, but it's definetely much better to pick a high tier character. No, I'm not saying that a low tier will win some major tournament soon, but it's not like it's impossible for them to place well.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Ness' up-b is definetely not his main weakness. A way to tweak is to make it travel longer, keep the high priority and range it has at the beginning of the attack, and make it so you can tech it when he hits the stage. Now he has an uber recovery that has the start up time of fox's up-b.



You have a good argument, butsome of your character specific stuff is kinda wrong, and your opinion of Ness' Marth matchup. Kirby is definetely not a power character. He probably is one of the weakest characters in the game. Pikachu is one of the fastest characters in the game, he is low tier cause he has no range in his arials. Luigi is low tier cause he is easily gayed by his recovery and easily combo'd. Dk and Luigi are generally considered to be mid tier now. The only good thing about Mewtwo is his recovery and that nobody knows how to play against him. Ness would shoot up the tiers if he had a viable cc'ing game, and his old grab range and nair back. Roy is actually not a power character, he can be almost as fast as Marth. His game is centered on combos, DED, and d-tilt. All of which can be avoided, plus his recovery stinks. If you consider Roy a power character you have to consider Pikachu one cause he is tied with fox to have the most powerful viable upsmash in the game (ganondorf's does more damage, but only if both of his feet hit). GaW is low tier because he's lightweight and has no defensive game. I could say more but you get my picture.

Let's look at the top tiers. Fox is the fastes character in the game, is really strong, has a good recovery, has really good combos (some of them are infinates). His only downfall is that he is easily combo'd and he's a little light. Falco, same has fox, except that he has an ADVANTAGE OVER FOX and Ness' old spike for ssb64. He is also easily combo'd. Shiek is fast, has really good tilts and arials, good combos with d-throw, and an ok recovery. Her/His problem is that she is easily punished after recovering if she doesn't sweetspot and she can be easy to combo with some characters. Marth is an extremrely powerful character with lots of range and good combos. His only problem is that he is lightweight and has somewhat of a killing problem if his opponent lives past 130%. Peach has a broken d-smash, fc'ing, can be played really fast with adv. techs, she has one of the best recoveries in the game, and is really powerful. The only problem with her is that her recovery is somewhat predictable and she is really lightweight.

Ok, just to make something clear.

NO ONE, has an advantage over Fox in the game. there can be an equivilant match up with high tiers, but there are no disadvantages.

You say that Fox can get comboed, well, any fast faller can get comboed. But what are the ods that you will be able to land said combo when the target you are attacking has you at a constant disadvantage? The same can be said for any character or person that can DI decently. And Sheik really can't be punished in any match up.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Hold up! Hold up!




Dk did a 100% move in one video?!? Where?!? I need to see this!

 

[h1roshi]

i completey disagree with this post. just they they have similar moves means nothing. if the physics change than all of the characters moveschage. maybe their faster, stronger, farther knockback, different trajectory, different startup lag, different ending lag. longer hitbox. these are some things which we have to consider. if link has all the same moves, bt now he becomes invincible durng his up+b, pulls out bombs in one frame, the bombs now do 15% damage each, his hookshot has no ending lag at all, his down a has no lag, all his aerials have longer reach and bigger hitboxes, and the hitboxes stay out longer, if his arrows stunned the opponent for 2 sec.s, if he was like that he would be a broken character even though he has all the same moves...peace

-hiroshi

 

[Digital Angel]

i completey disagree with this post. just they they have similar moves means nothing. if the physics change than all of the characters moveschage. maybe their faster, stronger, farther knockback, different trajectory, different startup lag, different ending lag. longer hitbox. these are some things which we have to consider. if link has all the same moves, bt now he becomes invincible durng his up+b, pulls out bombs in one frame, the bombs now do 15% damage each, his hookshot has no ending lag at all, his down a has no lag, all his aerials have longer reach and bigger hitboxes, and the hitboxes stay out longer, if his arrows stunned the opponent for 2 sec.s, if he was like that he would be a broken character even though he has all the same moves...peace

-hiroshi

Hopefully they will do Wi-Fi updates so the it can help keep the characters balanced. Of course there will still be tiers but there be a much smaller gap between them if this is the case.

Competitive Melee got way too stale very quickly because of blatant balance issues.

 

[_X_]

I main Mewtwo.... and I can beat anyone i've ever played in my life. Tiers dont matter.

AHAHAHA I'm afraid your Mum doesn't count.

Go to a real tourniment and see how you fair.

 

[thesage]

No, most people agree that falco has a slight advantage over fox. I've heard this from most pro smashers I've encountered while I've gone to tourneys. These are serious tourney's too: Chudat's biweekliez, Pound 2, C3. I don't really know the matchup really well cause I don't play either character, I just know that falco's pillar ***** fox and his laser stuns. Faclo's heavy so fox won't be getting that many gay u-smash/ u-air kills. They both have gay spikes so it's a tie there.

 

[mkmelee]

i completey disagree with this post. just they they have similar moves means nothing. if the physics change than all of the characters moveschage. maybe their faster, stronger, farther knockback, different trajectory, different startup lag, different ending lag. longer hitbox. these are some things which we have to consider. if link has all the same moves, bt now he becomes invincible durng his up+b, pulls out bombs in one frame, the bombs now do 15% damage each, his hookshot has no ending lag at all, his down a has no lag, all his aerials have longer reach and bigger hitboxes, and the hitboxes stay out longer, if his arrows stunned the opponent for 2 sec.s, if he was like that he would be a broken character even though he has all the same moves...peace

-hiroshi

If that was directed at this thread, and hence me, please, please, PLEASE, READ MY POSTS!

Of course those would change him up insanely. I made this thread because I did not see enough improvements in many of the old characters, but that was a faulty decision of me, as it was just a matter of Sakurai not officially telling us about all the tweaks he made, whether in the end they're for the better or worse.

Of course I do wish for characters who are in need of them to receive much needed improvements whether just tweaks, additions, or complete overhauls.

And, yeah I'm pretty sure Falco has a slight advantage. He's overall just a gayer character, but I can't completely speak for professional level play.

 

[Mama]

i completey disagree with this post. just they they have similar moves means nothing. if the physics change than all of the characters moveschage. maybe their faster, stronger, farther knockback, different trajectory, different startup lag, different ending lag. longer hitbox. these are some things which we have to consider. if link has all the same moves, bt now he becomes invincible durng his up+b, pulls out bombs in one frame, the bombs now do 15% damage each, his hookshot has no ending lag at all, his down a has no lag, all his aerials have longer reach and bigger hitboxes, and the hitboxes stay out longer, if his arrows stunned the opponent for 2 sec.s, if he was like that he would be a broken character even though he has all the same moves...peace

-hiroshi

**** it you beat me to it. Lol. This really is the only response needed for this thread. The move may look the same but it may do something completely different. As Hiroshi said some could have further knock back or different trajectory.

An simple examle, Ganondorfs neutral A attack has serious knock back. If you took the same animation and damage from that move but made the the knock back similar to any other characters punch then it would be totally different and would not be used in the same way.

I think this whole thread is peaced.

 

[Digital Angel]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the prospect of Wi-Fi balancing?

 

[lukintosh]

Wait. Asians have poor education?

 

[SenorPresidente]

hmm yeah i am rather disappointed on how many veterans have the same moves as in melee

 

[Johnknight1]

Wait. Asians have poor education?

Well, last I checked they scored the highest on basically all tests. In other words, they're smarter then the rest of us.

And wat were you people expecting, new movesets for returnies=??? I mean c'mon, I'm the guy with the craziest expectations, and I don't see why that's needed. WHY IS IT NEEDED=???

Mario:
-Has a waterpack gun
-Has had major move changes, and effect changes, in his A Air movest, smash attacks, and B attacks. Especially the later.
-Looks God tier-esc

Donkey Kong:
-Is morespeed, and has a more useful B moveset.
-Less lag.
-More awsomenss.
-No longer a low tier character, and looks Godtier-esk.

Link:
-Can actually *gasp* run, and runs kinda fast.
-Has a BRAND NEW UPGRADED nB.
-Has heavily improved bombs.
-His Gale Boomerang is bran spakin' new.
-His uB is chargeable.
-He is overall much better. He looks God tier-esk.

Peach:
-Revamped moves.
-Better balance.
-Looks about the same, if not better.
-Looks like a God tier character.

Bowser:
-***** me.
-Is actually good.
-Doesn't suck.
-Has useful attacks, and is a power house NOT TO BE MESSED WITH.
-Looks like God tier material.

Samus:
-Has a redone uB
-Bombs look better in combat outside of recovering.
-Has redone effects on the B moveset.
-A air moveset feels fresh and revamped, and is done very well.
-Looks GREAT! God tier material.

Pikachu:
-Revamped nB, that is very poweful
-Very useful uB as always, that looks good.
-Overall faster character, especially in air.
-Is as broken as it was in SSB64. God tier material!

Fox:
-fB goes further then before.
-Is similar to his SSB64 character.
-Slower movement, but is much stronger.
-Attack speed remains the same.
-uB is as good, if not better, with original effects.
-A moveset is revamped, and is redone very nicely.
-Still remains a God tier-like character.

If anything, I am excited. You obvoiusly missed all this stuff! Unless you were expecting old characters to have completely new movesets (which is retarted, since they were good for the most part). XD

We got more DI, new pysics, new gameplay, new moves, new techs, new everything, and you still complain about lack of innovation. Do you need a stab in the balls orwat=??? The game is completely diffrent. I suppose you think SSB64 and Melee are the same thing. You are obviously not looking HARD ENOUGH! Actually try to find new things about it before complaining.

You guys expect a new game. We're not Super Smash Bros. Melee to Super Smash Bros. Melee 2, or Super Smash Bros Melee to Street Fighter IV. WE'RE GOING FROM SUPER SMASH BROS. MELEE TO SUPER SMASH BROS. BRAWL! It's a brand new series, and at the same time the series we know and love. So stop having stupid expectations that are plain stupid, and quite frankely impossible. If Sakurai did this, we'd have a 26 character roster again, WITH THE SAME CHARACTERS AS MELEE! It would be your people's worst nightmare: Super Smash Bros. Melee 2! In other words, THIS THREAD FAILS!

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Johnknight is right!

 

[tennisthehilife]

As long as Kirby gets un-nerfed a bit. If he doesn't I'd still main him (iono how ppl can main someone until they actually play as them melee fox and brawl fox might be different) I'm little disappointed in online play, I still hope for a rooms w/ usernames and an optional ranking mode. So that'll be 3 online modes: friend, no ranking, and ranking.

 

[mkmelee]

Ummm... WTF? Forget the fact that you probably haven't even played the game and are already assuming the characters to have material worthy of god-tier based on a few bits of info.

I'm not talking about innovation here buddy. I'm just talking about improving what needs to be improved. I didn't say that everyone has to have a completely new moveset. I didn't say anyone needed a completely new moveset. Thanks for your list of changes to Brawlies, cause that was the kind of thing I needed, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're improvements.

How would improving older characters mean that we'd only have 26 characters?

And if you didn't understand, that was a joke about Miss Teen South Carolina.
I'm freaking Korean. I know what a good education is like, and I know many Asian countries have one.