To anyone who says Link is not a beast in Brawl: Video evidence to the contrary.

[PopeOfChiliTown]

HDL (Link) VS Pope (PT)
HDL (Link) VS Pope (PT) 2
HDL (Link) VS Pope (PT) 3
HDL (Link) VS Pope (Olimar)

I found HDL's basically newborn Link to be pretty effective relative to everything that can be found on youtube as of yet. I've heard a lot of talk about Link not receiving many buffs, and essentially being worse (gimpyfish and the montage crew people), and it's all just wrong. Link is going to be a force. Clawshot is as broken as Skarmbliss.

HDL, if you read this, hope you don't mind me making a topic about this. I just thought the people should know the truth.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

****, that Link is nasty!

 

[BentoBox]

How does he compare to toony?

 

[Malk]

****, that link is nasty!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQATbBSoGnU

 

[WR3K]

****, that link is nasty!


tshirts available soon

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

How does he compare to toony?

Sorry, I haven't played against/as Toon Link.

Also, why you people posting other videos here? Hell of disrespectful.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

****, that Link is nasty!

(I just had to)

 

[HardPuppet]

Clawshot Auto-cancel (edited)? Man, the way HDL was spacing with the clawshot was great. Seems like it could act like a lockdown tech, no? Seems to me like the recovery frames for pope were much higher. Hmm, great find. Nice vids, guys!

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Clawshot auto-cancels, and yeah, it's the best poke in the game basically. Very safe, good stun, no lag. I found it hard to find a counter to it in the hours we played.

 

[SpitFire15]

Great vids there. Link definately looks better than what he was in Melee.

And yes, that Link is ****ing nasty!

 

[Grining_Ghoul]

Honestly, I didn't see the guy using Link being much of a beast, but I did see the guy using the Pokemon Trainer not being very good at using him. No offense but I wasn't really impressed.

:3

 

[ImpactAR]

Wow, I haven't heard of HDL's Link in a while.

Finally a video of a Link player who has contributed to Melee Link. Gives the Link in this video a very good creditability. Looks like the hookshot does stun well enough to attack . Good find. Good job on showing how well it works HDL.

I'm glad Link is looking up and HDL may return to making Link his main.

 

[Kryian]

In those videos I could've sworn I saw the clawshot eat Ivy's projectile....does it beat others as well, I wonder?

 

[GTR!]

just for emphasis

link is ****ing nasty!

 

[Hesaki]

so glad to see my main is not horrible

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Honestly, I didn't see the guy using Link being much of a beast, but I did see the guy using the Pokemon Trainer not being very good at using him. No offense but I wasn't really impressed.

:3

I'm sorry we did not impress you.

 

[Big Burn]

this should give my friend some hope

 

[Skler]

Last edited by PopeOfChiliTown : Today at 02:37 PM. Reason: added sad emoticon which represents lugubriousness and not mirth.

Easily the best reason I've ever seen for an edit.

Link is still bad, mediocre if we're lucky, in brawl though. The clawshot isn't going to break the game (sadly enough). Good spam and a good spacer won't make Link beat Marth, Toon Link or DDD (ok, maybe DDD).

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

I don't really know where Link will end up once the dust settles and the doves stand perched atop the last few weather vanes left once the storm passes. We also don't really know if Marth, Toon Link, or DDD will be the best characters (if I recall correctly, Ganon was on the top of one of the early Melee tier lists). However, I disagree completely that he is either bad or mediocre. Aside from his ever present spamming capabilities, his zoning game is now more ridiculous than I think anyone can really fathom, with the clawshot as well as faster fairs, ftilts.... everything. He's heavy, all his projectiles are better, recovery won't be as big a problem as it used to (and it wasn't even bad in Melee). His kill moves are largely unchanged, except for the fact that they are all crazy fast now.

Meh, I don't really want to debate about a character I don't main. I just see him having the tools to enjoy consistent success in tourney play, but only time will tell.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I don't know why everyone says he sucks. He seems pretty **** good to me. I mean, sure they nerfed his Up-B as far as spiking and killing goes, but then again, it always did seem like a move to only use if you were trying to get out of a combo.

And if he DOES suck again, I will be furious at Sakurai. WHY DO YOU HATE LINK!?!?!?!

 

[Skler]

His upB isn't even that bad now, it's still good to get people off his shield, it just won't kill.

His recovery is garbage, his speed is garbage, he lacks basic combos and he has 0 combos into finishers. Sure he has good spacing now and a good spam game, but he isn't anywhere near as good as toon link, marth, DDD and pit.

 

[•Col•]

His upB isn't even that bad now, it's still good to get people off his shield, it just won't kill.

His recovery is garbage, his speed is garbage, he lacks basic combos and he has 0 combos into finishers. Sure he has good spacing now and a good spam game, but he isn't anywhere near as good as toon link, marth, DDD and pit.

What's wrong with his recovery? o_O And what's wrong with his speed... He seems to have a lot less lag this time around...

And last I checked, Pit wasn't THAT good... He's supposed to have a limited amount of kill moves and even though his Up Special seems godly, if he's hit out of it, he falls to his doom...

 

[Skler]

Link's recovery is bad now. He can't make it back from anywhere like almost every other character. Link can be edgeguarded by ONE HIT off the stage. Most characters can survive two or three.

Link lags badly on his dair and can't combo with uairs effectively due to lag. His ground moves are about the same as Melee with a slight speed boost. Link is still slower than most characters in the game.


Pit is still better than Link, he isn't one of the probable top, but he's still better than Link. Pit's recovery is amazing, he doesn't even need to upB (not that a lot of characters do now anyways).

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

His upB isn't even that bad now, it's still good to get people off his shield, it just won't kill.

His recovery is garbage, his speed is garbage, he lacks basic combos and he has 0 combos into finishers. Sure he has good spacing now and a good spam game, but he isn't anywhere near as good as toon link, marth, DDD and pit.

Ok, I guess you're just basing this off of speculation, and apparently biased speculation at that. DDD's speed is also garbage, he lacks basic combos and has 0 combos into finishers as far as we've seen. Besides, we don't even know what concepts will hold the most important in this game.

Also, I would amicably suggest that you watch videos and, given the chance, play as characters yourself so you can form your own assessments. The Montage crew and gimpyfish aren't to be taken as concrete sources for character rankings, they are only people. Tournaments and time determine how good characters are, so don't wave Marth and Toony around as the "set in stone" elite characters just yet.

 

[xc_hawk]

Ok, I guess you're just basing this off of speculation, and apparently biased speculation at that. DDD's speed is also garbage, he lacks basic combos and has 0 combos into finishers as far as we've seen. Besides, we don't even know what concepts will hold the most important in this game.

Also, I would amicably suggest that you watch videos and, given the chance, play as characters yourself so you can form your own assessments. The Montage crew and gimpyfish aren't to be taken as concrete sources for character rankings, they are only people. Tournaments and time determine how good characters are, so don't wave Marth and Toony around as the "set in stone" elite characters just yet.

To be fair, I think DDD's b'air actually does combo pretty well.

Other than that, I'd agree with you. We need to give all the characters a fair shot, not simply counting them off simply from what someone else said.

 

[timidshadow]

Link has always been awesome in my opinion. I don't see why people would think otherwise since there is propetually no useless well-used character, it all depends on the player.

 

[Kira_smogon]

These are my impressions on the first 3 videos: The person using PT made many bad mistakes. Link is still ok I guess, but those videos cannot prove he is beastly (it is like me saying Melee "Pichu" is awesome because I can beat a ******** 5 year old with him...)

In the first vid the PT user manages to move in the direction of the cars. without Link's help.. that is how most of the damage is done. Also you still tried to get real close and personal with Link when using Ivy... last time I checked Ivy was a long range character... not a "rush up and attack up close" character.

In the second vid he continues using Ivysaur even though Charizard was clearly the best choice when dealing with Link (Although he let himself get edge-hogged twice). I mean Charizard was actually able to do a number on Link. Meanwhile Ivy sucked in this situation, and Squirtle was even worse.

In the 3rd vid he manges to get a KO as charizard, and then switches to Squirtle (the lightest one of the three) at 100% damage when it was clear that Charizard was the best. He then gets Ko'ed by links attack which would not have happened if he did not switch to Squirtle. (which was basically the only time you manually switched instead of just waiting till you died)


Pokemon change allows you to use the character best for the situation which the user clearly did not do. I mean he only ***** you every time you used Ivy and Squirtle yet you ardly used Charizard which was clearly the most capable in dealing with Link.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

These are my impressions on the first 3 videos: The person using PT made many bad mistakes. Link is still ok I guess, but those videos cannot prove he is beastly (it is like me saying Melee "Pichu" is awesome because I can beat a ******** 5 year old with him...)

In the first vid the PT user manages to move in the direction of the cars. without Link's help.. that is how most of the damage is done. Also you still tried to get real close and personal with Link when using Ivy... last time I checked Ivy was a long range character... not a "rush up and attack up close" character.

In the second vid he continues using Ivysaur even though Charizard was clearly the best choice when dealing with Link (Although he let himself get edge-hogged twice). I mean Charizard was actually able to do a number on Link. Meanwhile Ivy sucked in this situation, and Squirtle was even worse.

In the 3rd vid he manges to get a KO as charizard, and then switches to Squirtle (the lightest one of the three) at 100% damage when it was clear that Charizard was the best. He then gets Ko'ed by links attack which would not have happened if he did not switch to Squirtle. (which was basically the only time you manually switched instead of just waiting till you died)


Pokemon change allows you to use the character best for the situation which the user clearly did not do. I mean he only ***** you every time you used Ivy and Squirtle yet you ardly used Charizard which was clearly the most capable in dealing with Link.

Lol, though it seems like you've only recently joined this site, I'll respond with the following:

PT'S PLAY WAS HIGHLY EXPERIMENTAL. ALL MISTAKES I MADE WERE THE PRODUCT OF ME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE A CHARACTER I HAVE BARELY EVEN SCRATCHED THE SURFACE OF.

Focus on the Link play please, which was solid. I can't believe people idolize Brawl players on youtube who manage to pull off a three-hit combo yet otherwise play horribly, yet I post videos against a highly skilled opponent, all I get told is that I suck. OF COURSE I DO I HAVEN'T PLAYED THIS GAME AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT NOT TO SUCK.

I'm sorry to go all caps crazy on you, I just don't want this topic to get derailed.

 

[Kira_smogon]

Ok so you think that Link is beastly because he managed to beat you with a character that you just started to use? I mean my friend could beat me with mewtwo when I just started to test out Marth. He was clearly better than me,. Mewtwo was not beastly and neither is Link. The person playing as him was just better than you.'


Edit: Also I have not played as PT yet but you can tell just from watching that Charizard is the best suited for facing Link... I am not saying you are bad, but you can't just say "X character is good because they can beat me when I am using a character that I can not use effectively at the time."

Also I dont idolize anyone on youtube... I dont really give a **** about good brawl players on youtube.

I am sure that the best Melee player in the world can 0 death me with Pichu when I play as marth. I can't say that pichu is beastly, but that is basically what you are doing.

 

[Moose Of Woe]

There are good Brawl players on Youtube? *Links! THIS I COMMAND!

*=No pun intended

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

As much as I would love for you to explain to me how Charizard is best suited to face Link than the other pokemon, I'd like to end this discussion right here. I don't think Link is beastly only because he beat me. I understand competitive fighting game concepts, and I noticed Link has many weapons to give many characters a hard time. That's it. The videos, I thought, would somehow get people excited about all that Link has to offer in Brawl.

Before any more misconceptions arise, please only discuss Link play in this thread. Unless of course, Kira_smogon wants to get into a detailed analysis of why Charizard does better against Link than Ivy does, although that is probably a topic for some other board.

BTW, last time I make a thread like this.

 

[Kira_smogon]

Sorry, I guess I kind of got carried away. Anyway I suppose Link is pretty good. Anyway this is my last post in this thread so dont worry:

Basically when you used Ivy and Squirtle you got *****. When you finally used Charizard you were able to both take his attacks and actually threatened to KO him (although you messed up the spike in the last vid I think). So basically charizard was the only one that you used that even managed to pose a threat to Link. I am not saying you would have won since the other player was still better, but you would have had a much better chance if you had used Charizard the majority of the game (assuming you can use him somewhat effectively)

 

[ImpactAR]

You missed the point of this topic. It was to help show what Link can do and judge for yourself if he is manageable. Not to judge the players in the game because it hasn't even been out long enough.

Do not tell someone how to play if you don't know how to play the character themselves. Especially based on a video where you have no idea who the players are and capable of.

Playing and watching someone play and picking out what their options are are totally different. I thought it was pretty obvious that Pope didn't have a solid on PT yet. You can give recommendations at this point and the only one you could of advise was for him to use Charizard based on weight and such, but not based on strategies because you have not played PT much less PT against Link..

 

[Skler]

Ok, I guess you're just basing this off of speculation, and apparently biased speculation at that. DDD's speed is also garbage, he lacks basic combos and has 0 combos into finishers as far as we've seen. Besides, we don't even know what concepts will hold the most important in this game.

Also, I would amicably suggest that you watch videos and, given the chance, play as characters yourself so you can form your own assessments. The Montage crew and gimpyfish aren't to be taken as concrete sources for character rankings, they are only people. Tournaments and time determine how good characters are, so don't wave Marth and Toony around as the "set in stone" elite characters just yet.

I've played the game, Link is noticeably slower than most characters and has had his basic combos removed. Link got more range and better speed on certain attacks at the price of his reliable combos. The utilt feels slow to me, the uair IS laggy on landing and jugging isn't really an option anymore. Link's main combos are gone and his recovery is ****. He has a buffed fair (good for him), a buffed aerial hookshot (now it's actually a good attack) and a good spam game. It's just a shame that he's average.

DDD is slow but has melee Marth's grab and an amazingly good chainthrow, great bair, tons of jumps and the ability to KO. DDD is good.

Marth is almost unchanged from melee. He's got a weak recovery, slightly less range and a few nerfed moves but he is still broken.

Toon Link has a bair that can ken combo on it's own, a strong projectile game, is maneuverable in the air and is just plain good. The only downside to Toon Link is that he's light.

Pit has a great recovery, good projectile game and combos. His only real problem is his lack of kill moves.

Link's speed wouldn't matter so much if he had a CG and a great grab, but he doesn't. You're being biased, HDL is better than you so you say Link is good? I can stomp a ton of foxes in Melee and that won't make Link any less of a piece of trash.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

I've played the game, Link is noticeably slower than most characters and has had his basic combos removed. Link got more range and better speed on certain attacks at the price of his reliable combos. The utilt feels slow to me, the uair IS laggy on landing and jugging isn't really an option anymore. Link's main combos are gone and his recovery is ****. He has a buffed fair (good for him), a buffed aerial hookshot (now it's actually a good attack) and a good spam game. It's just a shame that he's average.

First off, all characters have lost their reliable combos from Melee, that is not a knock on Link, this is a different game. His attacks are all noticeably faster (including utilt, actually), and overall mobility has been unchanged for the most part, he has never been that mobile, he makes up for it with his ranged attacks, which are all now better. Uair has always been laggy. Juggling in Brawl is more difficult for all characters really, and that attack has better uses anyway. What main combos are you talking about anyway? Here's the thing though, I'm not going out on a limb saying Link will be below or above average like you are doing, I'm saying simply that Link has many weapons at his disposal to be a force.

DDD is slow but has melee Marth's grab and an amazingly good chainthrow, great bair, tons of jumps and the ability to KO. DDD is good.

Marth is almost unchanged from melee. He's got a weak recovery, slightly less range and a few nerfed moves but he is still broken.

Toon Link has a bair that can ken combo on it's own, a strong projectile game, is maneuverable in the air and is just plain good. The only downside to Toon Link is that he's light.

Pit has a great recovery, good projectile game and combos. His only real problem is his lack of kill moves.

Link's speed wouldn't matter so much if he had a CG and a great grab, but he doesn't. You're being biased, HDL is better than you so you say Link is good? I can stomp a ton of foxes in Melee and that won't make Link any less of a piece of trash.

I'm not being biased. I saw firsthand the potential Link has if played by a skilled person, and wanted to post the matches we recorded on a thread so people could see. I'm not trying to say Link is top tier, or anything to that effect. All you're really doing is telling me what I already know about those characters. I can do that for every character in Brawl and make it seem like they're very good too. Speculation is not fact, you need to acknowledge that. You don't know how those pros and cons you listed will factor in once we have a concrete metagame to judge things by, so stop saying they are guaranteed to make those characters top tier.

 

[HDL]

Perhaps I can help clarify some of this. I think the turn this thread has taken is kind of dumb, so maybe I can emphasize the point of all this.

To reiterate, Pope is not saying Link is amazing because I beat him or because I'm a better player. Not only was this like the second time he's ever played the game, but who's to say if Link has an advantage against the pokemon? We don't know yet, although we can see things early on (clawshot eating projectiles, for example).

The point is to show that the new Link is quite capable, more than most people give him credit for (I could say the same with Ike as well). I do not plan to main Link (but I will continue using him), and before we recorded this I had very little training with him. Anything you see me doing with Link in those videos were ideas formed in my mind before even getting to practice with Link, so I'm pretty sure I could do much more with him in time.

Another thing, people do not need to be skilled players in order to understand important concepts about what makes a character good. Likewise, people can be capable of all the wavedashing and l-canceling in the world (Melee obviously) and still not know a rat's turd about what makes a character good. Having combos and chain throws and being fast do not make a good character. They can help, but ultimately the things that make a good character fall under other attributes. I won't get into that here, I'd have to spend a while explaining and I don't want to take the time and have it fall on deaf ears.

I probably won't post here again, because chances are if you still don't get it after that, you'll continue to argue and I really don't want to get involved. I'm just hoping this will help to clear some stuff up.

And lastly, to all who were disappointed about Link supposedly "sucking" in Brawl, don't fret. He's still great, you just have to play with him differently and not like Melee.

 

[HardPuppet]

I'm quite content with the general idea that Link still isn't worth a ****, keeps all of the top-tier bandwagoners away from him. I still contend the vids were great with a positive find, one that will probably become a Link staple for any Link-main player.

HP

 

[killbeast301]

****, that link is nasty!

Good to see HDL is owning with Link. I sure hope he can find some goood combos, and make a Link guide like he did in Melee (that was an awesome guide)

 

[HardPuppet]

****, that link is nasty!

Good to see HDL is owning with Link. I sure hope he can find some goood combos, and make a Link guide like he did in Melee (that was an awesome guide)

Here Here!

Oh and,

That Link is effing nasty!!!

*takes a bow*

HP

 

[Linkubus]

I was not blown out of my mind by the Link, but considering how long the game's been out he looks good, not beastly or over 9000 or whatever.......but good.

The PT didn't seem to be much of a match for him though. Also the Link used the move (the hookshot cancel) too much, many times unnecessarily. I can see how it is an effective move, but it seemed liked he was just spamming it most times.

Definitely one of the better Links I've seen on youtube though. It's hard to find any decent players on that