To all the Pittsburgh/Western PA Brawl players, please read this.

[Phoenix_Dark]

Also, um..

I'm not imposing my will on anyone, so don't toss around accusations so recklessly.

If you can't handle playing like a man, don't bother showing up. Your match should not look like a youtube tournament video (it should be way more awesome). Don't come to prove how good a Brawler you are. Come because you think Smash Bros is awesome, and want to have fun with some crazy players. Feel free to bring friends, but please RSVP so we can get it organized as fast as possible.

Some people enjoy playing to prove how good they are. Even crazier, some people like using Marth.

 

[_umbra_]

Ah, here's a classy player. Tell me something...are you actually arguing that Brawl is properly balanced with no items and only certain stages permitted? How ridiculous. Do you really believe that there's a difference between grabbing a hammer and chaingrabbing someone for 50%, maybe infinitely? Well, actually is a difference - you can fight back against the hammer! Which is more game-breaking? The item that can go either way, or abusing some aspect of the game engine to prevent your opponent from being able to act? I was hoping players like you would get it when they removed wavedashing, but apparently you still don't understand.

Brawl isn't well balanced regardless.

The problem with items is that they add almost complete randomness to the game (I say almost because of item drop spots, etc.) The community decided to ban items in tournaments long before you started playing for that reason. Items create an unfair environment, where a person's entire strategy revolves around stage control, in order to increase the probability of a benificial item dropping near them. Once the opponent picks up certain, highly disruptive items (a very large amount of them, mind you), the player's entire focus will be on dodging that item. The match basically turns into running around waiting for an item to come around (maybe attempting to hit the opponent away), and fighting over said item until one player picks it up and gains a clear advantage in the match.

Tournaments are played without items because we are competing with eachother, not random items. We play without items because we play for money (or even just for the purpose of legit competition). Having such a large random element in tournament play means that many matches will be decided by luck. In tournaments, we try to minimize the influence of luck on the result, and maximize the influence of the players' respective abilities.

Let me make it clear that I have nothing against playing with items for fun or in friendlies. Honestly, I think brawl is more fun with items involved. However, tournaments are a test of skill. If we have the means to remove random elements from gameplay (to a certain extent, obviously), then there is no reason why we shouldn't do so. I'm not saying that items remove ALL skill from the equation, but they will have a significant effect on the outcomes of matches.

As far as infinites are concerned, the majority of tournaments ban grab release and small-step infinites. While it's rare for the Ice Climber infinites to get banned (mostly because of the skill required to do so), if that's what your area agrees on, then so be it. Infinites that remove the relevance of any controller input from the opponent are just as bad as items, and should also be banned, in my opinion.

In regards to your wavedashing comment, I hope you're aware that we've never been using rulesets or guidelines laid down by nintendo. Regardless of whether something is a glitch, if it's in the game and the community doesn't call for a ban, then there is nothing wrong with using it. The smash community exists independant of nintendo and all game designers. Wavedashing is in melee and doesn't break the game; therefore, we use it. Wavedashing isn't in brawl; therefore we don't use it. It doesn't matter what the game developers' intentions were. All that matters is the options the game gives us.

I also agree with Pheonix Dark in regards to how this ruleset will hurt your community. I won't go into detail, because I feel he explained everything well.

 

[Sleek Media]

Well, regarding bringing a Melee setup, you're welcome to do so, but the reason it's limited to 16 is because of space limitations. We're just holding this in a very small store that isn't meant for much more than 15 people. There won't really be a secondary crowd. That's why I keep saying this is a test run. We want to get a feel for what kind of players are in the area, and how we can best organize the next event. I was actually debating whether or not to even bring it up on these forums, since we already have about half the space filled.

Regarding the desire to become better, that's your way of play. It's fine; just don't expect to find many players with that mindset at this specific event. Like I said before, the priority here is to have fun, and for this first event, we're targeting the casual crowd because there simply aren't many hardcore players in the area. It is not inaccurate to say that there is no Brawl community in Pittsburgh to speak of. Two or three guys here; a guy there... SCS failed to produce growth over Final Smash 08. In fact, the turnout was actually less (33 vs 25 for the tournament). Building a community out of hardcore players is not possible at this time.

From what I've experienced in other cities, and at past events, I expect that there are actually many more casual to high-end players in the area that we are currently unaware of because of the very, very high barrier of entry required for hardcore events. If we can bring them together, they will be able to enjoy the game more often, and will improve naturally through play. I'm sure some of them will make the transition to hardcore and reinforce the type of competitive community you really want. The others will continue to play casually, or advance to manly play. Until then, please be kind to casual players you encounter. Don't just stomp the interest out of them like the players at Final Smash did to the friend I brought. Notice that I didn't bring anyone to SCS as a result...

Oh, and don't take the rules of Man Brawl too seriously. Remember, even Man Brawl is subject to exceptions...Uzi gave me a manly battle that finished with a big bang using Marth at SCS. It's more accurate to call them guidelines for exciting play. You don't have to play manly to have interesting matches, but it sure helps.

 

[Sleek Media]

I also agree with Pheonix Dark in regards to how this ruleset will hurt your community. I won't go into detail, because I feel he explained everything well.

Sorry you feel that way, but I've been to tournaments with every kind of rule set you can think of, and the best ones always involve item use, sometimes with additional variables. What you don't understand is that I'm building a community, not a crew. The vast majority of people who play this game do not care at all how they rank against players from other areas. They're not concerned at all about how much "true skill" is involved with playing one way or another. Some don't even care about winning at all. They just like playing the game, and the reason they play Brawl instead of SF4 is because of unique gameplay elements and intriguing character roster. When you narrow down the rules like that, you pretty much strip out everything that makes Smash Bros unique, and that's why you need three months of promotion to get less than 30 people to show up for an event.

One of the less recognized merits of introducing items is the fact that swinging the advantage to a player of lesser skill is a good thing. Suddenly, the much more skilled player isn't bored, and there is much more excitement for the less skilled player. Items are by nature unpredictable. Therefore, you can't practice them to death until you have them down to a T. It works against the mechanical nature of the meta game, and makes the matches much more organic. Also, since most casual players use items, but hardcore players hardly ever do, skill in item use sometimes helps to balance matches between players of varying skill.

Here's a great example of why this is interesting. RougePit was going around at SCS trying to get money matches out of everyone. He beat me in pools, so he thought it would be okay to challenge me and the group I was playing friendlies with to a money match afterwards. Everyone was certain they would lose, so they kept silent. I, instead, told him that I'd accept a money match, but we'd have to play with items on. All of a sudden, RoguePit was the one too shy to play against me! I actually thought he would accept, since his friend knew how to use items well, and since Pit is a great character for item use, but he backed down instead. He'd certainly won enough money to cover the small risk of losing by bad luck. Maybe he wasn't confident of his ability to think on his feet. His decision proves switching up the rules once in a while promises to breathe new life into a matchup.

Finally, we have people who are more or less active in organizing competitive events. If the sort of thing I'm organizing isn't your cup of tea, I recommend helping them to make competitive gatherings more frequent.

 

[M@v]

wow...just wow....learn the difference between a tourney and a smashfest sleek, ****.

 

[Sleek Media]

Haha, have fun getting your *** handed to you by Ohio/Philly every six months, you wannabe.

 

[_umbra_]

Sorry you feel that way, but I've been to tournaments with every kind of rule set you can think of, and the best ones always involve item use, sometimes with additional variables. What you don't understand is that I'm building a community, not a crew. The vast majority of people who play this game do not care at all how they rank against players from other areas. They're not concerned at all about how much "true skill" is involved with playing one way or another. Some don't even care about winning at all. They just like playing the game, and the reason they play Brawl instead of SF4 is because of unique gameplay elements and intriguing character roster. When you narrow down the rules like that, you pretty much strip out everything that makes Smash Bros unique, and that's why you need three months of promotion to get less than 30 people to show up for an event.

One of the less recognized merits of introducing items is the fact that swinging the advantage to a player of lesser skill is a good thing. Suddenly, the much more skilled player isn't bored, and there is much more excitement for the less skilled player. Items are by nature unpredictable. Therefore, you can't practice them to death until you have them down to a T. It works against the mechanical nature of the meta game, and makes the matches much more organic. Also, since most casual players use items, but hardcore players hardly ever do, skill in item use sometimes helps to balance matches between players of varying skill.

Here's a great example of why this is interesting. RougePit was going around at SCS trying to get money matches out of everyone. He beat me in pools, so he thought it would be okay to challenge me and the group I was playing friendlies with to a money match afterwards. Everyone was certain they would lose, so they kept silent. I, instead, told him that I'd accept a money match, but we'd have to play with items on. All of a sudden, RoguePit was the one too shy to play against me! I actually thought he would accept, since his friend knew how to use items well, and since Pit is a great character for item use, but he backed down instead. He'd certainly won enough money to cover the small risk of losing by bad luck. Maybe he wasn't confident of his ability to think on his feet. His decision proves switching up the rules once in a while promises to breathe new life into a matchup.

Finally, we have people who are more or less active in organizing competitive events. If the sort of thing I'm organizing isn't your cup of tea, I recommend helping them to make competitive gatherings more frequent.

If all you're looking for is a few random pittsburgh people that want to play you with items on, I don't really see the point of doing anything through smashboards, really. My advice to you would be to just not even do a tournament with a solid ruleset at first. Make this a smashfest; you can tell people what tournaments are like (rulesets, etc.) when they get there, if they're interested. Either way, if all goes well you'll be making a new friend or two, and maybe one of them will be interested in competetive play. Tournaments are bound to frustrate people; you may lose a few potential players if they show up at their first tournament and get screwed out of it by a random item or something.

As far as rogue pit is concerned, I really can't speak for him, but I would imagine you could find the reasons in my last post (not wanting to put money on something so random.) I'm kind of surprised he didn't accept though, because I'm pretty sure there's almost no chance of him losing regardless.

For mav getting his *** kicked, at least he's been trying to improve this whole time (and he has. a lot.) You're calling him a wannabe, but that's what will help him become a top player. He wants to get better and beat people from out of the area, so he practices in order to get better. He's been by far the best player from pittsburgh this whole time, and he'll continue to be the best unless you guys decide to step it up.

 

[Sleek Media]

Like I said, the tournament is a formality. Casual and mid-range players may not know what I mean if I announce a smash fest. The word tournament is much better for grabbing attention, so that's what I'm going for. It's not some big serious production. There's only going to be 16 people, and there may not even be a fee or prizes (depending on what everyone wants to do). It's just a better way to get the attendees to notice each other than simply cramming them all in a room and telling them to just play.

Think of it this way. I tried to play as many people at SCS as I could, but when left to themselves, most people settle into insolated groups at each setup. It was actually harder than I thought to jump over to a different group and introduce myself. In the tournament, however, it was much easier say hello and start a conversation with my opponent. I can tell you everyone I played against in the tourney. I can only remember only one name from the friendlies.

If the whole tourney announcement confuses you guys, well...I don't know what to tell you. I've tried to explain that this has nothing to do somehow getting serious about Smash Bros. Mav has stepped up and organized serious tournaments in the past. It's pretty obvious from these posts that there are other players who want more of those kinds of events. Help him out, then! When I proposed a different style of play before, everyone said to organize my own event, so here we are. Don't cry to me now about how doing it differently is wrong. You all wonder why you can't get a community going, but in your next breath, you attack the first person to actually do something about it because it isn't being done your way.

Obviously, this won't appeal to the vast majority of people on this forum, but it stands to reason that if I'm here, maybe there are one or two similar people who would like to participate. Just ignore it if it isn't for you. It's really that simple. I'll be moving the announcement to its own thread soon. Please don't derail it like this thread was.

 

[Camalange]

um.


lol

umbra and phoenix got it right. i just want to add this.
why go on some web forum, search up tournaments, go out, drive somewhere, and spend money, just to end up playing a casual item-on game with people you hardly know, when they could just pull out their cell phone, call over some friends, and have a sleepover/brawlfest/party in which everyone will have a good time and doesn't require tech skill/advanced understanding of the Brawl metagame.

not saying item matches aren't fun, but it takes far less skill then a match with a tournament ruleset. rouge pit probably didn't accept your MM because their is MONEY on the line with LUCK factored in, totally changing the game.

a game of chess is now turned into rock paper scissors. see what we're tryin' to say?

 

[jarvitz]

i didnt read all of this, cuz its to long but i read the first halfish. Anyway i think we COULD have 2 tournameants at the same time, one with SBR rules, and one without so you have a choice of which to enter, or you could enter both. same goes for doubles in each of the 2. this would stop you 2 from haveing a forum war

 

[Sleek Media]

why go on some web forum, search up tournaments, go out, drive somewhere, and spend money, just to end up playing a casual item-on game with people you hardly know, when they could just pull out their cell phone, call over some friends, and have a sleepover/brawlfest/party in which everyone will have a good time and doesn't require tech skill/advanced understanding of the Brawl metagame.

I don't know, you tell me why nobody does that in Pittsburgh. Probably because they don't know enough players who are in the same range of skill, hence the purpose of introducing new players to each other. You're really still having trouble understanding this?

 

[Camalange]

i didnt read all of this, cuz its to long but i read the first halfish. Anyway i think we COULD have 2 tournameants at the same time, one with SBR rules, and one without so you have a choice of which to enter, or you could enter both. same goes for doubles in each of the 2. this would stop you 2 from haveing a forum war

that makes more sense. the SBR ruleset will actually make people want to come to the thing in the first place to figure out how good they really are, get better at this game as a competitive player, learn new things, etc which is the overall goal of the smash community.

the friendly tournament will be a good way for people just to let loose and be lulzy, force people to meet/greet eachother while playing the game. they can also learn a lot from what's going on in the main tournament with an official ruleset and decide if they'd rather remain a causual, or step it up and become a competitive player.

I don't know, you tell me why nobody does that in Pittsburgh. Probably because they don't know enough players who are in the same range of skill, hence the purpose of introducing new players to each other.

Because they're casuals and don't care enough about the game to take it to a competitive level by paying money to enter tournaments and do research on frame data/tactics and develop their own strategies and playstyle to become a top player. Instead, they hook up with their friends from school one day, pop some Bagel Bites in the microwave, and have a good time playing with cheap characters like Sonic, and the oh-so manly Captain Falcon. Enjoying their golden hammers and complaining about over powered Final Smashes. They are all at the same skill level as one another, because they are all ignorant of things like performing Ice Climber's perfect Back Throw and Forward Throw chaingrabs, or of Snake's ability to recover after an UpB by blowing himself up with a C4.


Perhaps the people you are referring to just don't have friends in general. That's a whole different problem on it's own.

You're really still having trouble understanding this?

No, not at all.



You're either a competitive player, or a casual. I think you're a little more confused than I am. I'm a competitive player and I respect and understand people that choose to be casuals (which is the majority, not everyone aspires to be a great video game player and I get that). What I don't respect are casuals who think they can tell the competitve community what they're doing is wrong and are trying to make a "balance" between the two. There is no such thing. You either play to win by doing anything possible (besides tactics deemed banned by the SBR) or you play to look silly/flashy and go for teh lulz.

At the same time, competitive players know how to have a lulzy time in friendlies as well...hence why they're friendlies and not tournament matches with money on the line, where they have a chance to win 1,000 dollars or more at regional events, or 100s local events.

 

[_umbra_]

I also like jarvitz's idea a lot. I understand if you want to hold an items tournament for fun with casual players, but while you're doing a tournament, why not give them a taste of actual competetive play? Maybe they'll start coming to tournaments.

 

[Camalange]

i Also Like Jarvitz's Idea A Lot. I Understand If You Want To Hold An Items Tournament For Fun With Casual Players, But While You're Doing A Tournament, Why Not Give Them A Taste Of Actual Competetive Play? Maybe They'll Start Coming To Tournaments.

^^^^

 

[_umbra_]

all caps fail?

 

[Sleek Media]

Actually, it seems you are having difficulty understanding, or at the very least you aren't listening. This is my last post on the matter, so I'll say it one last time:

The event is supposed to increase the total player pool for this area, so it has to cater to casuals more than the hardcore. Space and time restrictions limit us to one 16 man tournament plus casuals for the event. Rules are flexible, but they definitely won't be "regulation". Skip this one if you don't like it; no amount of whining or arguing will change the format, and you're only making it that much less likely that I'll organize that type of tournament in the future. If the event is a success, there will be more fests and tournaments, with more players, and more variety in rules. If you don't want to wait for that to happen, take Mav's advice and organize something yourself.

Very simple.

 

[Camalange]

have fun with your small event then.




legitimate ruleset brings overall more players. skilled players may actually be interested in attending, as well as newbies who plan to get better. either way, best of luck. i hope Phoenix or Mav can get something running for players who are interested in competition.

 

[M@v]

Being the best in Pittsburgh..like that's a prestigious title or something? =P

 

[_umbra_]

It may not be now, but if you guys can get legit tournaments going out there and start building your smash scene up, it will be soon enough ^_^

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Being the best in Pittsburgh..like that's a prestigious title or something? =P

You vs me! Money match for best player in Pittsburgh!!!! Either way, we both lose.. Anyways, back to the point of this thread. I just want to make it clear now that I won't be attending this, even though I said before that I would. It's clear to me that he doesn't want to do this the competitive way, and that he has no want or care to ever let it turn into a competitive community.

He just wants some friends to play video games with. I have friends. They come over, and we play for fun all the time. Final smashes are much better when drunk btw. Sonic is so fast.. Anyways, this isn't what I or anyone else was hoping for. Hell, even Jarvitz has already showed signs of disagreement. It's not us that had the wrong idea about this.

By reading the OP, you can tell this thread wasn't meant for making friends in your area. It was for gathering together competitive players that wanted to get better at the game, and growing a true Brawl scene in Pittsburgh. Which by the looks of it, will never happen. Which is fine, but if you're expecting to get people excited about an items tournament on SWF, you're mistaken.

Perhaps the owner of the store will play with you, when no one shows up to your manly event.

 

[Sleek Media]

Perhaps the owner of the store will play with you, when no one shows up to your manly event.

Have fun playing with nobody again because you're just a bunch of annoying teenagers with bad personalities and can't organize squat for yourselves. How pathetic.

I've changed my mind - we already have enough spots filled, so there's no need to make a separate thread for the event. I'm also removing details from the original post. Good luck getting your butts kicked in December, assuming Mav feels like spoon-feeding you bums another tournament.

 

[_umbra_]

Have fun not being taken seriously by anyone ^_^

I'm not sure what the transportation situation is like for you pittsburgh brawl players, but me and mav would be more than happy to spoon-feed you guys another tournament at psu if you can make it out that far...^_^

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Have fun playing with nobody again because you're just a bunch of annoying teenagers with bad personalities and can't organize squat for yourselves. How pathetic.

I've changed my mind - we already have enough spots filled, so there's no need to make a separate thread for the event. I'm also removing details from the original post. Good luck getting your butts kicked in December, assuming Mav feels like spoon-feeding you bums another tournament.

See, that's the thing. I'm not tied down to this area, and I can go out wherever I want. I was on board with this to help out the players in the area, and to have a way of staying sharp with my game without traveling, and playing Wi-Fi. I like how you throw out insults at everyone here that was trying to reach some common ground with the situation, and have the nerve to say we're the ones with the bad personalities. The best part is, that you're insults are completely off. I believe everyone posting here that has attended the last two tournaments in Pittsburgh, or at least one of them, has placed in the top 10. Where were you? Oh, that's right. You were playing "manly brawl", and trying to get 14yo kids to play a game with you. Nice.

Have fun not being taken seriously by anyone ^_^

I'm not sure what the transportation situation is like for you pittsburgh brawl players, but me and mav would be more than happy to spoon-feed you guys another tournament at psu if you can make it out that far...^_^

I think I'm really the only one worth mentioning from Pittsburgh now, and it looks like that won't be changing any time soon. No one else even posts on here. I'll try making it out to some tournaments at PSU, and try to meet up at some tournaments in other close areas. I'll force Mav to keep me updated <3

 

[Camalange]

Have fun playing with nobody again because you're just a bunch of annoying teenagers with bad personalities and can't organize squat for yourselves. How pathetic.

lol, Phoenix pretty much hit it on the head buuut...

you're a man with a mustache looking for kids to play a video game with items on. i'm a 16 year old boy, rather popular amongst my peers, have plenty of good friends, but still can find a balance between my studies, school friends, smash friends, going to concerts/hanging out, and learning how to play smash on a serious competitive level. you see smash as a game, i see it as a sport. it's something that i can work and get better at, be ranked amongst the community, and continue to see my skill level progress. it's exciting, i enjoy it. why do we have to listen to you rant about your nonsense? i'm not one to be rude to people i meet...i met you, you were a cool guy at the last Final Smash. why do you have to so immature? calling mav a "wannabee"? seriously? wow. mav and phoenix by far have the most potential out of anyone in pittsburgh, it's people like you who hold them back because they're stuck in a region with no serious competition. i feel sorry for jarvits, he seems like he's interested in actually getting better at this game.

mav/phoenix, i suggest finding a way to host your own pittsburgh events, cuz this guy just won't cave :/

I've changed my mind - we already have enough spots filled, so there's no need to make a separate thread for the event. I'm also removing details from the original post. Good luck getting your butts kicked in December, assuming Mav feels like spoon-feeding you bums another tournament.

as long as he isn't spooning the teen players at the tourney.

lemme ask you this, are you the big spoon, or the little spoon?

 

[_umbra_]

lemme ask you this, are you the big spoon, or the little spoon?

lmfaooooooo

 

[Camalange]

btw i do have a conscious.




sadly this is the only way i know how to get through to people on the internet after all of my polite methods failed. my opinion on you as a person hasn't changed, like i said i thought you were a cool guy...but after the way you insulted mav and the brawl community itself...

 

[the melon!!!!!]

Just read thru this whole thread, and I've gotta say, this is some baby-back bull**** here.

Sleek, what you are suggesting isn't a tourney, it's an oxymoron. You can't cater competitiveness to casuals (try saying that ten times fast lol), and you can't expect all casuals you get to want to convert to competitiveness. Out of 16, you are bound to get 3, maybe 4 if you're lucky who would wanna convert. Now, in comes the big problem, HOW IN THE NAME OF JOHN STAMOS DO YOU EXPECT TO GET BETTER BY CONTINUING THE BULL**** RULES?? If u don't have regular rules, then nobody good from out of the area will show, and your game will stay at a less than mediocre level. The whole point of tourneys is to play for money and get better. Playing the same people will just result in you guys being good against each other, nobody else. This will also result in terrible matchup knowledge for you.

In summary, if you plan to go thru with this BS, then you are attempting to stymie the majority of Pittsburgh's representatives with crap rules, thus leading to us brawlers giving you a bad name, and your crowd will be rejected. You'll be the goth-kids of brawl, and nobody want's to be a goth, dum-dum!

For your health!

Winners of this thread: Camalange, _umbra_, Pheonix Dark, whoever doesn't listen to this non-conformist goth.

 

[M@v]

Melon just won the thread even more than his brother did.

 

[jarvitz]

Melon just won the thread even more than his brother did.

i agree mav

 

[Lawz.]

I had to laugh after reading this entire thread. There was a perfect mix of stupid posts and funny posts.

 

[Sulfur]

I'd love a brawl scene lol. Butler is dead, and so is Pittsburgh. At least like monthlies or something. For next summer.

 

[bowz]

Let's just have a Pittsburgh wifi tournament every few days instead?