Tipping: Thoughts and Opinions

[Crimson King]

So, today, my friends and I went to a casino for dinner and some gambling. While at dinner we briefly discussed tips, but after dinner we had a more practical application: I asked a waitress for a drink, which are free to all people playing games, she jokingly said "You have a dollar?" which I assumed meant "Are you playing a game?" and I was sitting there and pointed to the machine. She comes back with our drinks and waits. I explain I literally have no cash whatsoever outside of twenties and the way the machine works is it pays paper slips that you redeem at these cash machines. She leaves in a huff and shakes her head as she walks away. This lead to my friend and I discussing what was she getting tipped for? Her entire job is based on getting people drinks that the casino gives them for free. In most cases, the people she's serving have their money wrapped up in the machine, in coupons, or in large bills.

I have a friend who waited tables for 6 years. He followed the same principle in receiving tips as I do when giving tips: if someone performs exceptionally well, I tip well (rarely will service be bad, so I regularly leave 20+%; I usually just take the tens-digit, double that, and that's 20%). If someone performs subpar or badly, I'll tip little to nothing. When he worked there, he saw employees expecting no less than 15%. This meant, to them, that if they received nothing it was the customers fault. My problem with this is if they are performing the bare minimum of their job, which is bringing me food, drinks, and refills, they are doing exactly what their job description entails and not worth an incentive.

My perspective comes from this: in the jobs I hold, I am expected to perform at a quality to high quality level. If I decide at work to skimp because I am not receiving extra incentive, my punishment will be suspension or firing. If I perform at an exceptionally high level, I will receive no incentive or an incentive sparingly.

So, PG, what mindset is correct?

 

[rvkevin]

TIPS: To Insure Prompt Service

I always thought it was strange that tips came after the meal. How does that insure prompt service or serve as an incentive when the server does not know the quality of the tip or tipper?

The difference between the service industry and other jobs is that restaurants are legally able to pay servers below minimum wage because of the additional tips they make. This essentially makes tips a fee for the labor of the server. Ultimately, tips are a form of payment for the service that you received that is not being paid for by the establishment and is being passed onto the customer. However, I hear that the establishment must make up the difference if the server does not get enough tips to meet minimum wage, so I don't see what the big deal is, other than if they think they should be paid well above minimum wage, in which they should be taking it up with the service industry.

 

[ballin4life]

TIPS: To Insure Prompt Service

I always thought it was strange that tips came after the meal. How does that insure prompt service or serve as an incentive when the server does not know the quality of the tip or tipper?

What's the incentive to give good service if you already got your tip before the meal?

 

[DanteFox]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enJwYaeolXc

 

[Grandeza]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ZZWhSvOMI

Also on a bit of side note it seems like every establishment has a tip jar out now. it's pretty rare, in my experience, to walk into any sort of food establishment without a tip jar there. I also notice that at many hotels when you order room service, on the bill there is a built in tip added on to your bill. And under that line of the built in tip is a blank line where you are supposed to fill in your tip! As if in addition to the tip they already force you to pay, you should pay more for the tip. That, I find ridiculous. Just a few random thoughts relating to tipping.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

That is a ridiculously funny video...

I do find the model a bit bizarre... Minimum wage being lowerd... for a variable income?

 

[rvkevin]

What's the incentive to give good service if you already got your tip before the meal?

Tit for tat. Maybe tipping doesn't make sense in the restaurant setting, but it would in a bar setting if you are regularly paying for each order.

This would just go to show that in a restaurant setting, you are simply paying for the services provided, based on the quality of the service, rather than to insure prompt service. If the service is of good quality, then it is more valuable to you so you should pay a higher price, if the service is of poor quality, then the price should be lower. Nowhere in this equation is the concept of "to insure prompt service." Also, it is customary to tip even when the service is poor, which further shows that tipping is for merely getting food onto the table rather than for expediency.

 

[Deleted member]

I've always seen tipping as a reward. If they give me great service, I'll tip well. If they give me average service(refill my glass when it's empty, only come to my table to take orders and present the meal), I tip what I normally do, which is 20%.

A poor tip is a message to say "try harder next time".

 

[eschemat]

Firstly, tips are basically all of a waiter or waitress's income >_< In NY, waiters make like 3 bucks an hour. lol.

 

[Crimson King]

I understand that, but how is that really my problem? When I found jobs that didn't pay high, I moved on or passed on the job. Now, it's not that easy out there now, but if you aren't happy with the money because it's not enough to survive on, taking the job in the first place isn't the best avenue.

 

[ballin4life]

Waiters make pretty good money with all the tips, especially since a lot of them are skimping on taxes.

My friend (who doesn't skimp on taxes) makes AT LEAST $10+/hr from tips alone (in addition to a $10/hr wage), and he works at a relatively inexpensive chain restaurant. Waiters at fancier places are going to make even more.

 

[Dre89]

I understand that, but how is that really my problem? When I found jobs that didn't pay high, I moved on or passed on the job. Now, it's not that easy out there now, but if you aren't happy with the money because it's not enough to survive on, taking the job in the first place isn't the best avenue.

The point is the job/wage is designed to function on tipping, whereas other jobs aren't.

 

[Ocean]

heh, I just finished watching reservoir dogs. that's convenient.

tipping is not really tipping in my mind. when you buy your food, you are paying for the cost of the food, the labor it goes into the food, and for the business to profit. the tip is paying for the labor of the waitress. that's why I don't see tipping as an award. it's like going to a mechanic, getting work done, and then not paying them for their service because it didn't live up to your standard. while I do think that all workers shouldn't just do enough to get by, I think that if they do something, they deserve to get paid for that something.

Tit for tat. Maybe tipping doesn't make sense in the restaurant setting, but it would in a bar setting if you are regularly paying for each order.

could you explain this further? I don't get what you're trying to say.

Also, it is customary to tip even when the service is poor, which further shows that tipping is for merely getting food onto the table rather than for expediency.

it's for both.

I understand that, but how is that really my problem? When I found jobs that didn't pay high, I moved on or passed on the job. Now, it's not that easy out there now, but if you aren't happy with the money because it's not enough to survive on, taking the job in the first place isn't the best avenue.

if people didn't take jobs that didn't pay enough to live on, this world would be in a lot of trouble.

 

[rvkevin]

could you explain this further? I don't get what you're trying to say.

Tit for tat. Its a term from game theory. The best decision is to repeat the same move that the other person used before. You the customer are initiating the deal positively (with a tip), the bar tender should respond with good service. If he doesn't, then you shouldn't tip on the next order, and he misses out on future tips.

 

[Ocean]

that makes sense for bar service, but how would that come into play at a restaurant?

 

[rvkevin]

that makes sense for bar service, but how would that come into play at a restaurant?

I said that maybe tipping doesn't make sense at a restaurant. The best example I can think of is a form of oral contract for faster service ("Could you squeeze us in at the 7:00 sitting ::slide a $20::" or "I have an event in an hour, here's a little extra to get it out in under 15 minutes"), if you don't get the service, then you would have legal grounds (not saying you would be able to prove it) to request your tip back.

 

[ballin4life]

tipping at a restaurant makes sense if you're going to go back there (the equivalent of multiple drinks from the bartender)

 

[Crimson King]

if people didn't take jobs that didn't pay enough to live on, this world would be in a lot of trouble.

That's false. If no one takes a job because of pay, the job will be able to be merged with another or be given more money.

Waiters can be paid so cheaply because they will work for that. Same goes for immigrant labor.

 

[Dre89]

The waitor system in Australia is better; their wages are higher because they don't get tipped.

The tipping system is basically just a way to get customers to pay for something the restaurant should be paying for.

 

[ballin4life]

The tipping system is basically just a way to get customers to pay for something the restaurant should be paying for.

Not really, they would pass those costs on to the customer in the form of higher prices for the food.

There's a lot of annoying things in the US designed to mask the high prices of things. Like the fact that sales tax is not included in prices. When I was in England, it was so nice that the price on the label was the price at the register. In the US you have to do some mental calculations to factor in an 8.25% sales tax (or whatever it is in other states).

 

[Ocean]

There's a lot of annoying things in the US designed to mask the high prices of things. Like the fact that sales tax is not included in prices. When I was in England, it was so nice that the price on the label was the price at the register. In the US you have to do some mental calculations to factor in an 8.25% sales tax (or whatever it is in other states).

they do that in your state? most places I go here have sales tax included in the price.

 

[Battlecow]

The way they do sales tax in the US is nice because you always know when taxes go up as opposed to when the price of the thing you're buying goes up. England's way might be cool for the sake of convenience, but I like to know where my cash is going

I never tip because I don't practice altruism.

 

[ballin4life]

The way they do sales tax in the US is nice because you always know when taxes go up as opposed to when the price of the thing you're buying goes up. England's way might be cool for the sake of convenience, but I like to know where my cash is going

True dat. But most people aren't paying enough attention for this to matter I think.

I never tip because I don't practice altruism.

lol

 

[metalmonstar]

Tipping is an issue that frustrates me. For good service I give 15-20%, for bad service I give nothing. Though that rarely happens because the people I dine with usually push me to give some tip even when service was terrible. The thing is they are getting paid to provide me with an acceptable level of service. If I hired someone else to provide me with a service and they didn't fulfill that service, I wouldn't pay them either. I say that not tipping is speaking with your dollar. One person I talked to said that you should always tip because the waitress or waiter might taint your food the next time you come in. This is only really perpetuating the problem. At that point they deserved to be fired. Another part of the issue is that many restaurants hire workers who are simply interested in nothing more than paycheck. There are many waiters or waitresses who simply make too much or don't deserve their job. So we have a problem in the fact that many people with entry level jobs simply make way more than they are worth. We have economically inefficient labor that is wasting our money, our time, company money, and company time. So really many of them deserve not to get tips and some deserve to be fired.

The other thing that people need to realize is that although they get a lower base pay which is compensated by tips, if they don't make enough tips to reach minimum wage the company is required to compensate them to regular minimum wage.

To many people are lenient with tips and because of this many other industries are adding tip jars to capitalize on people's generosity.

In conclusion, tipping for bad service only perpetuates bad service, over tipping leads to other companies trying to weasel tips out of you, and it leads to economic inefficiencies.