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Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

ranmaru

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Agreed, I think DG is semi-cleared because of the way he has acted all game.

Nabe, thoughts on Gova?

Only question I remember is the one about voting nich over the scum slip and other stuff I didn't read. *shrug* What would you like for me to say? I didn't like you voting him. (Also because I had a strong town read on him)
 

Gova

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I don't see how your lies were for pro-town reasons. You should explain.
 

SoupaKatamari

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We had mod-confirmation in our PM that killing roles/scum could time travel to kill someone, so we had to lie about when we returned, in case someone did.

wii think PLSD went after us, and that's why he was removed, not lynched.

the rest was just BS to keep ourselves alive and raise suspicion, along with avoiding the NK
 

Gova

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Why would you pick D4 then? We might not have even made it to this day. Why not just come back D2 and let PLSD be stuck there.
 

SoupaKatamari

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kata wanted to come back near lylo/mylo for this reason, but we weren't trying to do it like this, we wanted to just dissapear on a certain day, and not have to use either powers, so we could keep them for a situation like this but wii lost our 1x but still had that plan, but then wii AGAIN were put in that situation and thought of a new plan.

if wii didn't use it woulda got us lynched if we came back D2 promising to come back D4, wii atleast needed to be legitimate
 

SoupaKatamari

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^let's wrap this up plz... LYNCH NABE. It is evil's irony to deceive by appearances, and Nich made the best catch this game.

(btw nabe could you? the game is massive and it takes too long to find questions)

Ran and Grey are Town. I want to add this: a scum governor is not broken. A scum governor that happens to commute with the possibility of escaping the game for a total of X amount of mislynches... ... ... ... :chuckle: This is inherently a non-scum role and we're Town.

It comes down to Nabe and Gova. It's not Gova yet. It's Nabe...



...nabe nabe nabe :grin: misconstrued situations and has clung on to old, antique, redundant reads that are not representative of his suspects. He draws blood from stones. It is bloody misconstruction :chuckle: Look at us, Nich and Swiss as good examples.

Nabe's D1 was a farce! how was he to know we would be a pseudo-governor? This is an awful post. So is this. He expected us to die at the time of our 'lynch'. Any points he made that contributed to this were not based on our claim as this was non-existent to him. So what exactly was the basis of his reasoning on us? He does claim there's more, but it all reduces down to his interpretation of something that happened on page 4!, as we have shown many a time. We can't stress how redundant this is in light of the mass content this game has produced. He did this with Nich, who pointed this out well IOO.

even then, when the redundant read is looked at in more detail, it is misconstrued. Look: #1921 -> read the part where he quotes an exchange he had with Soup. He misses this. We explained previously how a quote such as this (among others) show Soup as having an agree-to-disagree mentality -> Nabe insists otherwise, but it looks as though he doesn't want to take certain elements of Soup's conversation into consideration. Ultimately, for some who advocated "alternative possibilities", his reads are the most rigid.
_

note: something here is fishy to me on reread - take the part where he "understood" my reasoning from both a Town and Scum perspective, but had reasons to still believe we were scum... Replace this with Soup's "Fair enough, but I still disagree...", and you have a similar situation - Soup understood, but had his reasons to believe otherwise. Hypocrisy in this manner... it shows a logic that isn't genuine. I don't think Nabe's logic is genuine. I see that fishy post as something significant but only Vanz would understand me.
_

also... actually...regarding his reactions to grey throughout D1... i was saying to soup that I categorise grey as the little suzy of this game...someone who would answer questions on the phone with a nod but never speak yes :grin: That is... how does one interpret a player that speaks in gambits? To show confusion, doubt, uncertainty is a natural reaction, and Nabe is a player who has looked at Grey with no sense of doubt and a complete sense of trust. I disliked this mucho. We outlined our thoughts on this here. Nothing has changed. Nabe, throughout the entirety of this game didn't bother to look to others to read Grey, despite claiming he would do as such. Where was the interest? He knew they weren't aligned, that's why :awesome: amirite? :awesome:
_

justifying swiss and trying to separate him from Sex Dance and Zen... lolz, the idea that swiss' posts reaching a motive or something ludicrous and sex dance/zen not doing as such... I mean is this srs??? it was the most mundane of reasoning I'm going to elaborate on this when it's not too late but it was a subtle defence of Sex Dance. It was just mundane reasoning to justify an opportunistic, momentum-inducing vote on swiss. The wagon was dirty. That vote was one of survival.

need to read the lack of d2/3 in more detail... but:

If Ran is town and poisoned and dies toNight as a result, and if we mislynch today, that's three players remaining. I would like to lynch SK (scumread, lying etc) and if they're town, they can use their 2x ability and see us properly through the Night. Two indies and two maf flips means one remaining.
^well, no :awesome: A better plan is lynching you, then using the speed up and lynching Gova/further consideration for the next scum. i believe lynching you should be enough.

Mechanically speaking, myself and Sex Dance can't both be scum, and Sex Dance is scum. You claimed there is one more scum... that would imply Sex Dance/July/Someone else, correct? How can there be 2 scum roles that mechanically remove themselves from the game? Town would be eating themselves alive... mislynches galore. I, for one, would love a scum team that could just walk away from... all the action...



The indies are dead. 6 anti-town is bad. There could be 3 scum. We are not aligned with Sex Dance. We are clear. Ran is poisoned and clear. Grey's mod meta and protection of jpeg -- he is likely clear. You should claim. So should Gova. The plan guarantees to hit scum.

^it's a very simple situation! Such a simple situation is going to be made more complicated if Grey randomly decides to pop in and **** everything up for the 1 billionth time, or if lightning strikes Ran, or if Gova is brainwashed by you.
_
_
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_
__
____

regarding our claim btw: well... golly gosh :awesome: 2/3 of our abilities are now mod-proven. The final one can be. There IS no extreme lie -> the mechanics of our role is exactly as we described. However, there's one difference, and that is the execution of our time travel. It is a night ability not a twilight one. Why does this difference make us scummy, again? It's not so much a lie as it's just an alternative truth :grin: <-- That's a serious statement!

^The whole point lies in the intrigue. The other game + it being a Twilight ability added some mystique for the scummies as we don't have common interests. How would a scum react knowing their enemy is definitely jetting off to another game for potential game-breaking information? (I hope you **** yourself Nabe :awesome:) It was meant to be a mousetrap. We knew it wouldn't be mod-confirmed, so we expected scum to take this as an opportunity to kill us thinking our ability didn't work, or twilight role-blocked etc.

This semi-backfired due to my super flavour ****up. It was worse because it was in real time as well... Soup consoled me later on skype after I cried endlessly... :(:(:(:awesome:

o also... we setup meta'd and expected more twilight actions from the anti-town side to balance our twilight ones... I thought declaring our intent to go to the other game could potentially attract anti-town actions - potential role blocks, stoppers, time travel shenanigans etc., and they would target air, because we weren't doing anything with that action. it was something if not a little farfetched.

 

#HBC | Nabe

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Laughing my *** off at this post.

I'm collapsing my response due to length, but I suggest that everybody read it. In my opinion I've strongly refuted every point that SK laid down. This will become more obvious when SK responds to the posts I've asked him to, but a number of their points are directly refuted here and now, and in fact in several cases I've made their own scummy intent clear. Tomorrow I'll make my own points clear.

(btw nabe could you? the game is massive and it takes too long to find questions)
Go look at the end of D1 where you deftly avoided responding to me when, after you asked me for it, I pointed out the multiple occasions that I'd referred to my latest response to our back-and-forth, and linked you to all the posts that made up my scum read on you.

Additionally, have you been keeping up with the game?

Ran and Grey are Town. I want to add this: a scum governor is not broken. A scum governor that happens to commute with the possibility of escaping the game for a total of X amount of mislynches... ... ... ... :chuckle: This is inherently a non-scum role and we're Town.
Maybe. I'm forced to disagree, because you're scummy so must be scum. Yeah?

...nabe nabe nabe :grin: misconstrued situations and has clung on to old, antique, redundant reads that are not representative of his suspects. He draws blood from stones. It is bloody misconstruction :chuckle: Look at us, Nich and Swiss as good examples.
This is patently false and I'd love to see quotes for all of it. "Misconstrued situations" amounts to disagreements between you and I, I'd imagine. "Clinging onto old reads", what is this? First, tell me why old reads are somehow "redundant" or at all useless which is what you're suggesting, then show me "clinging" onto anything. "Drawing blood from stones" is the same as the previous; where have I done any of this?

Nabe's D1 was a farce! how was he to know we would be a pseudo-governor? This is an awful post. So is this. He expected us to die at the time of our 'lynch'. Any points he made that contributed to this were not based on our claim as this was non-existent to him. So what exactly was the basis of his reasoning on us? He does claim there's more, but it all reduces down to his interpretation of something that happened on page 4!, as we have shown many a time We can't stress how redundant this is in light of the mass content this game has produced. He did this with Nich, who pointed this out well IOO.
What does this mean?
You call these links awful posts -- why are they awful? You and Ran should hydra.
Again: what does this mean?
You're saying here that because you hadn't claimed yet at the time of my vote, I had no other reason to think you were scummy. (If not, correct me.) But I have expressed reasoning, so you're wrong in that, and that reasoning hasn't been contested yet. That reasoning lies in the post I mention above, my reads post for which you requested a slew of links that you didn't respond to before your absence. Not once have you shown that my early-game read is my only reasoning for you; probably a disagreement but one we're going to clear up here and now.
Obviously I disagree. Would you benefit from a commented PBP?

even then, when the redundant read is looked at in more detail, it is misconstrued. Look: #1921 -> read the part where he quotes an exchange he had with Soup. He misses this. We explained previously how a quote such as this (among others) show Soup as having an agree-to-disagree mentality -> Nabe insists otherwise, but it looks as though he doesn't want to take certain elements of Soup's conversation into consideration. Ultimately, for some who advocated "alternative possibilities", his reads are the most rigid.
You're right, I missed that (172) in my list of quotes. But let's quote 172 for old time's sake.
Phone johns, i still had to re-read at the time but things were going on so it faltered it, i read the surface but mixed up my thoughts because i was in that rapid-fire mode, i looked back and saw my mistake, but i stand by my T-block point, whether you want to call it as "reaching to make t-block look scummy" is your gander.
The bolding is my own. Soup clearly says he's standing by his T-block point, despite it being a "mistake" -- these are his own words. This post supports my point of view; Soup accepts he's wrong.

note: something here is fishy to me on reread - take the part where he "understood" my reasoning from both a Town and Scum perspective, but had reasons to still believe we were scum... Replace this with Soup's "Fair enough, but I still disagree...", and you have a similar situation - Soup understood, but had his reasons to believe otherwise. Hypocrisy in this manner... it shows a logic that isn't genuine. I don't think Nabe's logic is genuine. I see that fishy post as something significant but only Vanz would understand me.
Now that's certainly tenuous. I'm not entirely sure how you could see those two situations as similar; both of the town and scum explanations for your actions fit, but IMO my own explanation made more sense and I asked you for a response to counter it. Your posts at this point appeared rambling and I couldn't make heads or tails of what you meant to say. Meanwhile with Soup, he insisted T-block was fishing and I very plainly showed that he wasn't -- only one explanation fits the situation. Soup admitted to this, and then continued to push the point despite that.

also... actually...regarding his reactions to grey throughout D1... i was saying to soup that I categorise grey as the little suzy of this game...someone who would answer questions on the phone with a nod but never speak yes :grin: That is... how does one interpret a player that speaks in gambits? To show confusion, doubt, uncertainty is a natural reaction, and Nabe is a player who has looked at Grey with no sense of doubt and a complete sense of trust. I disliked this mucho. We outlined our thoughts on this here. Nothing has changed. Nabe, throughout the entirety of this game didn't bother to look to others to read Grey, despite claiming he would do as such. Where was the interest? He knew they weren't aligned, that's why :awesome: amirite? :awesome:
The post you link here is 2719, which I responded to. You say "Nothing has changed" but haven't acknowledged my response, so how can this possibly be a valid point?

Re: looking to others, I've already explained in D1 that anyone who might've gotten a good read on Ryker (Swiss, Laundry) were entirely absent; you'll also recall I called them scum. Nobody throughout the game presented any argument to call Grey scum that didn't have a town counterpoint, and no one gave any reason to think that the scum side should be favoured over the town. Grey's own explanations for the events were valid, made sense, were believable, and his other actions in the game echoed the truth of that.

justifying swiss and trying to separate him from Sex Dance and Zen... lolz, the idea that swiss' posts reaching a motive or something ludicrous and sex dance/zen not doing as such... I mean is this srs??? it was the most mundane of reasoning I'm going to elaborate on this when it's not too late but it was a subtle defence of Sex Dance. It was just mundane reasoning to justify an opportunistic, momentum-inducing vote on swiss. The wagon was dirty. That vote was one of survival.
Nich asked me himself why Swiss was scummier than PTSD or Zen. I answered him. You suggest that I had an agenda to defend PTSD -- bull****. Now, objectively between the three of them, Swiss is scummier because his posts had content; he clearly had some sort of agenda and the other two didn't show one. That was the question I was asked. Re: Swiss in total, I've already admitted to what you suggest, which is that I didn't want to be lynched and didn't have time to swing it on Nich. I had a couple little points but they were not the main focus.

A better plan is lynching you, then using the speed up and lynching Gova/further consideration for the next scum. i believe lynching you should be enough.
:( but you're scum

Mechanically speaking, myself and Sex Dance can't both be scum
why
and Sex Dance is scum. You claimed there is one more scum... that would imply Sex Dance/July/Someone else, correct?
No, I meant one of any scum is left. Probably mafia though, two Mafia Sorceress flips and no others is strange. Mafia Link doesn't make much sense at all, but you have 50 things to answer for atm so I can only think atm that you're scum. Capiche?

How can there be 2 scum roles that mechanically remove themselves from the game? Town would be eating themselves alive... mislynches galore. I, for one, would love a scum team that could just walk away from... all the action...
What are you talking about? The only person aside from you that seems to think PTSD is coming back was Reyth iirc. I certainly don't; a mafo that gets lynched and comes back? Makes no sense. I stand by my original idea, that somehow PTSD converted July at night. Reyth probably shot her as requested of the vig by several people.

The indies are dead. 6 anti-town is bad. There could be 3 scum. We are not aligned with Sex Dance. We are clear. Ran is poisoned and clear. Grey's mod meta and protection of jpeg -- he is likely clear. You should claim. So should Gova. The plan guarantees to hit scum.
nah

regarding our claim btw: well... golly gosh :awesome: 2/3 of our abilities are now mod-proven. The final one can be. There IS no extreme lie -> the mechanics of our role is exactly as we described. However, there's one difference, and that is the execution of our time travel. It is a night ability not a twilight one. Why does this difference make us scummy, again? It's not so much a lie as it's just an alternative truth :grin: <-- That's a serious statement!
There are a ton of lies and consistently poor reclaiming of facts. I'll be going into those tomorrow, presumably after you've responded to all of this. That said, this is the first I've heard of your ability being a night ability -- did I miss something? You speak as if I'd already accused you of it being scummy.

Your wording is vague, do you mean your 2x ability, or the one that sent you to D4? Either way that is scummy, 2x as a night ability gives you an excuse to survive til toNight, and the other as a night ability means you're getting a super-commute out of sight of the thread. As a day ability the awkward timeframe of the commute at least had some setup reasoning that favoured you as town; it could plop you with a mod-confirmed commuter ability into endgame. If it's a night ability then its merits as a town or scum ability are back to null.

^The whole point lies in the intrigue. The other game + it being a Twilight ability added some mystique for the scummies as we don't have common interests. How would a scum react knowing their enemy is definitely jetting off to another game for potential game-breaking information? (I hope you **** yourself Nabe :awesome:) It was meant to be a mousetrap. We knew it wouldn't be mod-confirmed, so we expected scum to take this as an opportunity to kill us thinking our ability didn't work, or twilight role-blocked etc.
A question to other players: did the bolded ever occur to you? This sounds like BS, this reading of such an ability never occurred to me.

You'll recall that I asked you specifically to use that ability as soon as you claimed it, owing to the awkward wording you originally gave it. My best guess was that it might reset the roles or something. You specifically said that you had no idea what going to another game meant iirc; why not directly threaten that it would get you information? I don't see how you could've expected this to draw scum reactions otherwise, it's nebulous. Since I don't see how you could've had that motive, this looks like you defending a lie with new information after the fact.

o also... we setup meta'd and expected more twilight actions from the anti-town side to balance our twilight ones... I thought declaring our intent to go to the other game could potentially attract anti-town actions - potential role blocks, stoppers, time travel shenanigans etc., and they would target air, because we weren't doing anything with that action. it was something if not a little farfetched.
I'm going to call this null.

Vote: SoupaKat
 

ranmaru

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Well. I don't know what to say. I can't use mah vote.... ;-;

MAH POWAHZ R GONE.

I mean... I guess I'll state here officially: I'll sheep SK virtually. YES.

Err... Naybey baby, y u no claim?
 

SoupaKatamari

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Soup side here, i haven't had a chance to have a wall argument in a long time, thiss'l be fun.

Go look at the end of D1 where you deftly avoided responding to me when, after you asked me for it, I pointed out the multiple occasions that I'd referred to my latest response to our back-and-forth, and linked you to all the posts that made up my scum read on you.

Additionally, have you been keeping up with the game?
I have been, i've been somewhat filling Kata in at times, but, since we're at that point of the game, i will go find and respond to your questions you had for us.

SK: Not sure what you're getting at in 2546 but I'm going to attempt a response regardless; have you acknowledged 2312, 2425, or 2432? Could you respond with quotes to those? Our back-and-forth seems to be getting very mixed up.
I suppose these were the ones you wanted to have answered? i'll gladly dig them up.

Responding to Nabe's Questions

Those statements are not phatic at all. They directly state understanding; they have a purpose and wouldn't be said without a purpose. If he agreed to disagree, he would say that. And since I then repeated myself and he agreed my point was valid, I really have to give this a big fat no.

It's a tacit admission that he was wrong, made scummy by his original contention of the point, after which I gave no new reasoning and he then conceded. And what I said quite clearly does invalidate what he was saying, because what he was saying was plainly false in that he said T-block was rolefishing when his words couldn't possibly be taken as such. To say that someone is rolefishing is a really scummy stroke to paint, so the motive for a scumSoup in this is clear as well.
I'm assuming this is about the t-block scuffle, i admitted i was wrong about a certain fact, and if you remember, and not bend this to a point of breakability, it was this:

me said:
WIFOM point in 151, abritrary OMGUS of Nich, and meta reasons, which i have explained, they're a bit scrambled but you can find them.
Nabe said:
The points themselves are for T-block to respond to at this point; what you're expressing now has body compared to your prior points and isn't wrong out-of-hand.

I find it unsettling that you're extending your prior vote onto posts after it, after begrudgingly admitting that I'm right about the mechanics posts which were your original vote reasoning. Hoping to see new directions from your slot tomorrow.
Those were my other Reasons about T-block, but as explained i was wrong about the arguement concerning T-blocks entry post, and i took it as such, however, i wasn't going to let go of it because i still felt T-block was scummy, i can see your perspective of reasoning here, however.

From this line of questioning, it's fair to say that your only scumread is VG, correct? Since you call me null in the top post and you vote for VG, and say that I would be your second choice.
Kata believed you were scum at that point in time, and still does, hell, he was really convicted of you but i had other avenues i wanted, and one of them was VG at that time because of the arguement between DeGrey and Him, as explained before.

@SK: 2397 is bad. I know you're jokey but come on, you can do better than bolding an entire paragraph and blanketing it under a claim of WIFOM (and you do in 2398 so 2397 was just to be a jerk?)
That was kata, not me, hydra johns but i'm just telling you the truth.

SK: I thought I was null?
See: Kata having you as scum and me having you as null.

i'm gonna debunk your big post too, but i know you wanted these questions answered AND you are basing them off of your scum-read on us, i thought i would be generous.
 

Dramatic Flair

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Nabe, I'll be damned before I let you beat me in another OS game. Everything from last night phase points to you being scum and I'm gonna go with the Occam's Razor approach to SK and say I've never seen a Day Phase commuter who's scum.

I'm still alive after my indy flipped. You're the only one who benefits from that.

Ran, who would vote you with two votes over anyone else, is voteblocked.

Gova and SK could be scum, but I'm not gonna vote either of them. Gova's play doesn't line up and SK I've already explained.

Vote Nabe

Claim. I don't have time to keep playing this game and I'll be damned if I replace out this close to the end.

And for anyone keeping track, it's LyLo. Scum have a voteblocker meaning we lose in three man.
 

#HBC | Nabe

Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
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I suppose these were the ones you wanted to have answered? i'll gladly dig them up.
iirc there are more, like a response to my reads post.

I'm assuming this is about the t-block scuffle, i admitted i was wrong about a certain fact, and if you remember, and not bend this to a point of breakability, it was this:

Those were my other Reasons about T-block, but as explained i was wrong about the arguement concerning T-blocks entry post, and i took it as such, however, i wasn't going to let go of it because i still felt T-block was scummy, i can see your perspective of reasoning here, however.
The point I made way-back-when about T-block was that he wasn't fishing, did you agree with that point? Here you seem to be saying that you were doing what I've been saying you were doing, which is extending your vote onto T-block for new reasoning after we agreed I'd done away with the old.

Kata believed you were scum at that point in time, and still does, hell, he was really convicted of you but i had other avenues i wanted, and one of them was VG at that time because of the arguement between DeGrey and Him, as explained before.
Bluh hydra johns. Why didn't you keep better care of matching each other's scumreads? Why didn't you agree on a lynch and have one frame of mind like any other player slot would? As a single player slot I would be calling you guilty right now.

I have **** to think about and Kata needs to get in here.
 

#HBC | Nabe

Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
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'kay, thought about it and I'm not claiming.

I can see your frame of mind but just cool it, unvote please. SK is a hard sell, why would I favour lynching him and keeping you alive when you made it clear in D2/D3 that you think he's town? As scum I could push Gova and hope for the best, knowing that with voteblock I could win in lylo, but I'm not doing that and instead I'm trying to lynch your town read -- why?

Give me more time to piece **** together. I will compromise on Rantown but let me talk to SK.
 

ranmaru

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Don't give thoughts, I want to hear from SK. You're useless to me without a vote so please don't taint my response pool.
So why go OH U DIDNT READ IT WAH. :urg:

ToDay's Lylo. Why wouldn't you claim?
 

Overswarm

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SoupaKatamari - Nabe,
Nabe - Degrey,


Not voting: SoupaKatamari, Gova, Ranmaru

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
A deadline has been set for Wednesday, August 24th at 3:00 p.m. EST
 

#HBC | Nabe

Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
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Oh, I'm not in hammer range. I was hoping to hear from Gova which would confirm SK as scum to me if Gova didn't hammer, and Gova wouldn't have to claim his role. Ran is still town since he'd hammer if the poison was a feint.

Ryker, there's no benefit to me keeping you alive in hopes of getting your vote. I'm pushing SK who you expressed as a town read, instead of the Zen/Gova slot which would've been an easy sell.

Ran, I said you didn't read my post because you made it obvious you didn't. Keep up.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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sorry 'bout this OS.


Song of time 1x speed is a twilight role/when someone is lynched

Song of time 2x speed is a day role, i could activate it at any time if i wanted to.

Time Travel is a Night role.
 

Overswarm

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sorry 'bout this OS.


Song of time 1x speed is a twilight role/when someone is lynched

Song of time 2x speed is a day role, i could activate it at any time if i wanted to.

Time Travel is a Night role.
Your call.


SoupaKatamari (2) - Nabe, MOD
Nabe (1) - Degrey,


Not voting: SoupaKatamari, Gova, Ranmaru

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
A deadline has been set for Wednesday, August 24th at 3:00 p.m. EST

MOD votes cannot kill on their own; they require at least one other vote being present. MOD votes disappear at the end of the Day.
 

Overswarm

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SoupaKatamari (1) - MOD
Nabe (1) - Degrey,


Not voting: SoupaKatamari, Gova, Ranmaru, Nabe,

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
A deadline has been set for Wednesday, August 24th at 3:00 p.m. EST

MOD votes cannot kill on their own; they require at least one other vote being present. MOD votes disappear at the end of the Day.
 
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