Social "Time to Tip the Scales!" - Robin Social Thread

[dimensionsword64]

Can anyone explain Robin's gimmick to me (from what we know of so far)? I really don't understand it.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Can anyone explain Robin's gimmick to me (from what we know of so far)? I really don't understand it.

He can only use his tomes (Specials) and his Levin Sword (Normals) so many times.
After so many uses they break while the tomes disappears completely the Levin Sword is replaced with a Bronze sword.
After a set time frame they both regenerate.
Meaning that you have to be conservative with his/her attacks.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

I know everything I'm about to say I've already stated both in and out of this thread, but I feel it's relevant enough to the discussion that it at least partly justifies the regurgitation.

Not factoring in IASA, Arcfire's casting animation appears to end at (almost?) the exact same time the pillar of fire disappears. However, the last hit of said pillar happens to deal reasonable knockback. If Robin is mobile enough, he could possibly follow up by catching the opponent as they fly away. Whether melee attacks will work for this remains to be seen, but I get the feeling that you might be able to follow up with more specials. Preferably Arcthunder or Thoron (we know that they can be stored). Either way, it'll still be useful for team combos, I'm sure of it. At this point I'd be more concerned about the return of SDI than the move's endlag.

TL;DR - Robin isn't Ness. You shouldn't be going for a grab anyway.

 

[dimensionsword64]

He can only use his tomes (Specials) and his Levin Sword (Normals) so many times.
After so many uses they break while the tomes disappears completely the Levin Sword is replaced with a Bronze sword.
After a set time frame they both regenerate.
Meaning that you have to be conservative with his/her attacks.

Ah, thanks! So, with the tomes, when they disappear, is it just you can't use specials anymore until they regenerate, or are they replaced with something else?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ah, thanks! So, with the tomes, when they disappear, is it just you can't use specials anymore until they regenerate, or are they replaced with something else?

They are not replaced, to my knowledge.
You won't be able to use specials until it regenerates after a set period of time, again, to my knowledge, don't quote me on that.

 

[Senario]

Arcfire could have IASA frames. Or maybe the damage output is so high that it necessitates the endlag for balancing purposes.

I hope it is at least one of the two though I prefer the former, otherwise the move just seems like it has tons of end lag for flash rather than function. I'm all for style but Captain Falcon in melee had style AND function. No function just makes you feel like you traded something useful for something not.

 

[Jave]

Here's a recolor for FemRobin I made:

 

[The Light Music Club]

If we're talking FE adventure mode bosses, Medeus could be an option, considering he turns into a Dark Dragon and fits the enemy thing:

Or maybe Ashera:

Since either of these options would fit the extremely powerful and evil idea for boss characters to have.

And I personally don't see much issue with them being considered since Tabuu (while obviously not an actual human) had a humanoid form.

On the topic of Medeus as a manakete being in dragon form, it would still be temporary since he could start the fight in his human form (as the players spawn in), and then immediately transform into his dark dragon form.

And also Grima.

Spoiler

In all seriousness given Grima's body type I feel like he would function too similarly to Rayquaza (obviously having different attacks, but still moving in a very similar fashion).

Just some ideas for FE boss characters that would be related to the playable characters we have in the game (namely Marth and Ike).

I wanted Ashera's room in the Tower of Light to be the stage/part of the stage that represent Radiant Dawn. Those shock waves would make an interesting stage hazard imo.

 

[Reginleif]

u wanna tussle

 

[jaytalks]

There is a fake CSS with both Robins in. This one:

Spoiler

Honestly, I will be a bit disappointed if only male Robin is featured in the CSS. He already got the spotlight in the trailer, can female Robin get some recognition please?

My guess is that it will be like the Wario icon in Brawl, which switches depending on which costume you use. The same will happen for WFT and the Villager.

 

[jaytalks]

Ah, thanks! So, with the tomes, when they disappear, is it just you can't use specials anymore until they regenerate, or are they replaced with something else?

They havent said anything either way. Just that they can run out.

 

[GuyWithTheFace]

I hope there's a function to set your own default costumes so you can get female Robin as the default on the CSS.

 

[Hong]

By the way, it seems that female Robin's voice in English doesn't match any of her three voice options in Awakening... It's too high pitched compared to any of them. Could it be that she got a new voice actress?

It sounds like Wendee Lee, regardless. She did both the second and third female voice.

Fire Emblem Wikia claims it's Michelle Ruff, though they're no official source so I'll reserve my judgment. I've tried asking VAs who are already confirmed to be in Smash 4, and it would seem they can't even talk about it even if everyone knows they are in, so I take it their NDA will last until the game releases.

 

[Hong]

I'd figure Ashera would make for a good stage hazard for the Tower of Guidance. Periodically she would cast her judgment down on the fighters, turning anyone who is touching the floor to stone.

 

[Glaciacott]

I'd figure Ashera would make for a good stage hazard for the Tower of Guidance. Periodically she would cast her judgment down on the fighters, turning anyone who is touching the floor to stone.

Unless it's Ike. There's something about him that you just can't contain in stone

Spoiler

 

[.Shìkì]

I know everything I'm about to say I've already stated both in and out of this thread, but I feel it's relevant enough to the discussion that it at least partly justifies the regurgitation.

Not factoring in IASA, Arcfire's casting animation appears to end at (almost?) the exact same time the pillar of fire disappears. However, the last hit of said pillar happens to deal reasonable knockback. If Robin is mobile enough, he could possibly follow up by catching the opponent as they fly away. Whether melee attacks will work for this remains to be seen, but I get the feeling that you might be able to follow up with more specials. Preferably Arcthunder or Thoron (we know that they can be stored). Either way, it'll still be useful for team combos, I'm sure of it. At this point I'd be more concerned about the return of SDI than the move's endlag.

TL;DR - Robin isn't Ness. You shouldn't be going for a grab anyway.

Endlag like that would make him complete cannonfodder in any mode thats not 1v1, and even in that it is sub-par to a lot of other moves then. Have you seen how easy people were dodging PKF? With an endlag like that using this move will be equal to gifting a kill to your opponent in almost all situations. The windup is already bad and obvious enough.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Endlag like that would make him complete cannonfodder in any mode thats not 1v1, and even in that it is sub-par to a lot of other moves then. Have you seen how easy people were dodging PKF? With an endlag like that using this move will be equal to gifting a kill to your opponent in almost all situations. The windup is already bad and obvious enough.

Have I seen how easy people were dodging PK Fire when and where? I need some context here.

We already know that, unlike PK Fire, Arcfire can detonate on contact with the ground. I see this being used mainly to halt approaches in a similar fashion to Cole's Redirect Rocket in PSASBR. The move starts above him and flies down in front at an angle, covering a surprising amount of area all up. My impression is that Arcfire will be used defensively. It will likely be about trying to bait your opponent into it, or punishing an opponent with it should it be the best move to use in a certain situation. I don't know, I guess I'm just of the belief that as long as you're smart and skilled enough to land the move and not throw it out like a moron, you shouldn't have any problems. "Git gud" and all that.

Equal to giving my opponent a KO? We don't know if this game has Brawl-style broken 0-death chaingrab combos yet lmao

 

[Reila]

My guess is that it will be like the Wario icon in Brawl, which switches depending on which costume you use. The same will happen for WFT and the Villager.

That is the safest bet, but the fact both Robins appear in the official site, as opposed to only female Wii Fit Trainer and male Villager appearing, makes me think there is a small possibility both Robins will appear in their slot in the CSS.

Edit: Sort of 'd by Lizardon.

 

[Shaya]

The ultimate Fire Emblem fan service would be having all of the Magic/Spell God Weapon casts (FE4/5) as assist trophies or part of a single stage. But don't we already have 2 [WiiU] FE stages?

Super Fiya, Super Yami-yo-edgey, Super-Angelica with a dash of environmental landscaping winds and an electric hammer. Obviously other S+ and/or unique spells can be diabolically sexy too. Basically the Brawl Legendary Pokemon stage but with FIYAAAAAA EMBUREN.

 

[Hong]

But don't we already have 2 [WiiU] FE stages?

So far, only Colosseum.

I found it to be the most boring stage on the demo. Hope Fire Emblem gets something better on the Wii U for release.

 

[Reila]

I think Castle Siege will most likely be in the Wii U version. Is it considered a good stage? I feel conflicted about it.

Or maybe it will be in the 3DS version... Which would be better than having only one FE stage, but still.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think Castle Siege will most likely be in the Wii U version. Is it considered a good stage? I feel conflicted about it.

Or maybe it will be in the 3DS version... Which would be better than having only one FE stage, but still.

I wouldn't mind Castle Siege if it was redesigned to be based on Akaneia Castle or something. Or better yet, just scrap the stage and create a new stage entirely based on Akaneia for 3DS, and Radiant Dawn for Wii U.

 

[Glaciacott]

I still would want a Rekka no Ken or a Fuuin no Tsurugi ... well, basically Elibe ... stage on the 3DS due to that continent being the first handheld one to exist.

Crossing my fingers on Dragon's Gate.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I still would want a Rekka no Ken or a Fuuin no Tsurugi ... well, basically Elibe ... stage on the 3DS due to that continent being the first handheld one to exist.

Crossing my fingers on Dragon's Gate.

Well, we basically already do. The Colosseum looks far closer to the GBA arena than anything. The stands in the background and overall design takes far more inspiration from the GBA arena. It somewhat resembles the Shadow Dragon arena, but not nearly so much. Granted, its not a 3DS stage...

 

[Shaya]

Castle Siege is pretty alright. Should just be the first part though (my goodness what a stage it would be if that were the case, haha)

Seeing as the Arena is humongous and a walk off, the chances of seeing a competitively viable FE stage seems kinda low I guess?

Mechanics that appear in the game that could inspire stages would be
Tile nuances: Forest/Bush/Sand hurting movement speeds, tiles healing you over time, tiles which increase your defense/avoid, fog? (pillars in Siege, other usually annoying mechanics on other stages)
Certain Terrain: Obviously castles, battlefield plains, village streets, caves, temples, enemy bases. Nothing obvious standing out as "zomg stage material" (that wouldn't have stage hazards, mind you).
Certain events: Going past a certain area bringing in traps, or opening up further areas (DK stage in Brawl, Rainbow Cruise ish).

I think there could be something like the pods/capsule things in Olimar's stage that could reflect FE in some way that wouldn't necessitate banning it.

I think then the only way would be some sort of "Chapter Crawler" stage without any overly engaging mechanics (Delfino Plaza/New Zelda Stage).

 

[Reila]

Castle Siege should be three different stages. I like all three parts, I just don't like how it keeps moving from a place to other during the matches.

 

[Hong]

I'm fine with the first and third parts. Just not the walk-off with the statues on them.

 

[.Shìkì]

Have I seen how easy people were dodging PK Fire when and where? I need some context here.

We already know that, unlike PK Fire, Arcfire can detonate on contact with the ground. I see this being used mainly to halt approaches in a similar fashion to Cole's Redirect Rocket in PSASBR. The move starts above him and flies down in front at an angle, covering a surprising amount of area all up. My impression is that Arcfire will be used defensively. It will likely be about trying to bait your opponent into it, or punishing an opponent with it should it be the best move to use in a certain situation. I don't know, I guess I'm just of the belief that as long as you're smart and skilled enough to land the move and not throw it out like a moron, you shouldn't have any problems. "Git gud" and all that.

Equal to giving my opponent a KO? We don't know if this game has Brawl-style broken 0-death chaingrab combos yet lmao

Seen it both in competitive and casual games. Dodging it is extremely easy. And dodging Arcfire is even more easy, you see it coming from a mile away and even if it is already in place , if endlag was almost as long as the pillar, dodging through it and grabbing/smashing would be easier than stealing a child's lollipop.

 

[Glaciacott]

I personally expected more Fire Emblem-y stuff from the stage.

Like, floortraps, pegasi/wyverns flying around, fog of war ... idk, castle siege seemed like it tried to grab more than one environment and it failed at truly representing any.

 

[Walgen]

None of which has any bearing on the point I made, which is that the Morgan in Awakening's storyline cannot be Mark from Blazing Sword.

You didn't deal with

Spoiler

the two Morgans.

When will you do that?

Also, while Robin can say "no", Lyn still believes that Robin is Mark.

"Even if you claim you aren't the man/woman I knew, I want to judge for myself."

The implications are pretty strong, even if it's never outright stated. Regardless of this, the Morgan you recruit cannot be the tactician from Rekka no Ken.

Post something other than what Lyn said.

There isn't anything that prevents

Spoiler

either one of the two Morgans,

from being who Lyn was talking about.

 

[Hong]

Fog of war would be interesting on the 3DS, since each player has their own camera and perspective. Hide and seek!

 

[Shaya]

Third part would suck so hard in melee, oh my god (and gets you killed in PM when you play fast fallers due to tilts )

Weather is obviously something they could do, but they don't have much to go with
Raining, Fog and Blizzard (the combination of the two).
Seeing as they're about movement and vision impairment I don't know how they'll implement them thematically at all; other than on the 3DS (which sounds like the only chance of having a penultimate stage that accurately represents the series)

What about a desert stage (dashing slows down rapidly over duration and jumping out of it is slower?) which transitions after a "Godly incident" into a blizzard mountain (has a covered area and everything outside gives chip damage?) into other similar incidents which have deluges (perhaps a stage that is particularly normal with off stage/blast zones, but will flood to create water play where one would otherwise fall to their deaths?).

Iono.

 

[Hong]

dodging through it and grabbing/smashing would be easier than stealing a child's lollipop.

I don't care what they say, stealing candy from a baby isn't as easy as it sounds.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Seen it both in competitive and casual games. Dodging it is extremely easy. And dodging Arcfire is even more easy, you see it coming from a mile away and even if it is already in place , if endlag was almost as long as the pillar, dodging through it and grabbing/smashing would be easier than stealing a child's lollipop.

Yes I have seen it in competitive play. My partner is a Ness main in Brawl and PM, currently one of the best known PM players in my state (and I suck lol). It isn't that easy to dodge if the Ness player is intelligent. Generally the best way to combat PK Fire is to powershield it which is never an easy task (and of course character properties come into play here too, being a fast faller makes avoiding it more difficult) because with careful spacing, the Ness player can usually otherwise avoid any sort of significant punishment, maybe a projectile to the face at best. But back to Arcfire. If you dodge in place, you're either not in the AoE in the first place, or you're standing right where the pillar will appear. Bad option. But what about rolling? Well it really depends on how much rolls were buffed (which seems to be character dependant). If rolls are as hilariously punishable as in the previous games, Brawl included, then that likely won't be a problem lol. The lag on a roll would either prevent them from getting in after rolling back, or prevent them from attacking after rolling toward you. What if they try to jump over it? Time it so that they jump INTO the move as it descends/hangs above you. What if they simply turn around and run away or wait? Try to read those movements and space Arcfire accordingly. Smart use is key here.

 

[.Shìkì]

Yes I have seen it in competitive play. My partner is a Ness main in Brawl and PM, currently one of the best known PM players in my state (and I suck lol). It isn't that easy to dodge if the Ness player is intelligent. Generally the best way to combat PK Fire is to powershield it which is never an easy task (and of course character properties come into play here too, being a fast faller makes avoiding it more difficult) because with careful spacing, the Ness player can usually otherwise avoid any sort of significant punishment, maybe a projectile to the face at best. But back to Arcfire. If you dodge in place, you're either not in the AoE in the first place, or you're standing right where the pillar will appear. Bad option. But what about rolling? Well it really depends on how much rolls were buffed (which seems to be character dependant). If rolls are as hilariously punishable as in the previous games, Brawl included, then that likely won't be a problem lol. The lag on a roll would either prevent them from getting in after rolling back, or prevent them from attacking after rolling toward you. What if they try to jump over it? Time it so that they jump INTO the move as it descends/hangs above you. What if they simply turn around and run away or wait? Try to read those movements and space Arcfire accordingly. Smart use is key here.

Question: How are you going to punish a roll that, not matter what charackter it is, is completed faster than the endlag of Arcfire? So far i have seen not a single roll that would take longer than the amount of endlag this move has. Again, I'm referring to the "his endlag seems to be almost as long as the pillar stays in place so you cannot combo out of it" statement. If thats the case there is no way rolls slower than this endlag could exist. Also the Move works like this: Conjuring fireball over Robins head->throwing it forwards->pillar of flame on hit. The windup is worse than that of Ness' PKF, meaning even easier rolling out of it. Also you can start reacting the second you see him conjure the fireball in which case your roll will be unpunishable, the whole animation just looks ridiculously long to me. Maybe i should make a Frame by Frame video to see how many frames it takes for wind up and how many frames endlag the move has. We saw the female Robin in the trailer use ArcFire, (presumably) rolling as soon as she was able to and then using ArcThunder, that should make for a pretty good example.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Question: How are you going to punish a roll that, not matter what charackter it is, is completed faster than the endlag of Arcfire? So far i have seen not a single roll that would take longer than the amount of endlag this move has. Again, I'm referring to the "his endlag seems to be almost as long as the pillar stays in place so you cannot combo out of it" statement. If thats the case there is no way rolls slower than this endlag could exist. Also the Move works like this: Conjuring fireball over Robins head->throwing it forwards->pillar of flame on hit. The windup is worse than that of Ness' PKF, meaning even easier rolling out of it. Also you can start reacting the second you see him conjure the fireball in which case your roll will be unpunishable, the whole animation just looks ridiculously long to me. Maybe i should make a Frame by Frame video to see how many frames it takes for wind up and how many frames endlag the move has. We saw the female Robin in the trailer use ArcFire, (presumably) rolling as soon as she was able to and then using ArcThunder, that should make for a pretty good example.

Depends on when the roll is started. Likewise, who in the right mind would roll the second Robin starts up the animation? If I were in that situation, I'd just run straight up to him instead. The point of rolling is to utilise intangibility and go through danger.

I didn't say you can't combo out of it in this thread (though I did make that comment about a week ago), because I realised that the final hit of Arcfire deals actual knockback, as we see in the trailer. This is what could give it combo potential.

You're still going about this the wrong way. Now you answer me a question: Would you just use Bowser's FSmash for the sake of pressure knowing full well the move's laggy as balls to both start and finish? Just kidding. We both know the answer to that already, you wouldn't. However, if you saw a golden opportunity to land said FSmash (whether it be to punish some sort of action from your opponent, as a tech-chase followup, an edgeguard, whatever) and you were highly confident that it would work, would you use it? Maybe you would. This exactly what I mean. Arcfire (based on what we've seen) isn't an aggressive move, it is much more reactionary in nature and will most likely see use through hard reading and/or punishment.

 

[.Shìkì]

Depends on when the roll is started. Likewise, who in the right mind would roll the second Robin starts up the animation? If I were in that situation, I'd just run straight up to him instead. The point of rolling is to utilise intangibility and go through danger.

I didn't say you can't combo out of it in this thread (though I did make that comment about a week ago), because I realised that the final hit of Arcfire deals actual knockback, as we see in the trailer. This is what could give it combo potential.

You're still going about this the wrong way. Now you answer me a question: Would you just use Bowser's FSmash for the sake of pressure knowing full well the move's laggy as balls to both start and finish? Just kidding. We both know the answer to that already, you wouldn't. However, if you saw a golden opportunity to land said FSmash (whether it be to punish some sort of action from your opponent, as a tech-chase followup, an edgeguard, whatever) and you were highly confident that it would work, would you use it? Maybe you would. This exactly what I mean. Arcfire (based on what we've seen) isn't an aggressive move, it is much more reactionary in nature and will most likely see use through hard reading and/or punishment.

The thing is, from the looks of it the knockback isn't dealt by the final hit, but more like the edge of the pillar. Villager reached that point a lot earlier because of the super-armor-rocket. When you look at Sheik getting caught in it, Robins endlag animation is finished before the pillar disappears and Sheik isn't knocked away yet. But, i am doing - or trying to do - a video on the subject currently, so hopefully that will make more clear what i mean... It will take a while though, as i only have basic experience with my rendering program, and i need to find a good-quality version of the trailer first.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

The thing is, from the looks of it the knockback isn't dealt by the final hit, but more like the edge of the pillar. Villager reached that point a lot earlier because of the super-armor-rocket. When you look at Sheik getting caught in it, Robins endlag animation is finished before the pillar disappears and Sheik isn't knocked away yet. But, i am doing - or trying to do - a video on the subject currently, so hopefully that will make more clear what i mean... It will take a while though, as i only have basic experience with my rendering program, and i need to find a good-quality version of the trailer first.

This actually sounds better, IMO. If it does indeed deal the hardest hits around the edges, then it makes trying to escape it less useful for the victim.

Watching in slowmo, I don't think Robin's animation actually ended and here's why:

Notice how Female Robin has put her sword back in her hand whilst the Male one hasn't? This could be a shot in the dark, but I believe that this is the likely the signal for when the player can act again. FemRobin has clearly assumed a neutral stance. If this theory is true, then HALLELUJAH acting before Arcfire ends confirmed baby! Plz be real plz be real.

 

[Skyblade12]

You didn't deal with

Spoiler

the two Morgans.

When will you do that?

Post something other than what Lyn said.

There isn't anything that stops

Spoiler

one of the two Morgans

from being who Lyn was talking about.

I don't know about the other Morgans. They're from a different world. All we know is that it can't be our Morgan. We also know that it can't be the otherworldly Morgan who matches Robin's gender. Beyond that, we don't know. Explain why it can't be Robin from the world of despair.

From a practical standpoint, both of those Morgans grew up as obsessively murderous members of the Grimleal. I doubt they'd be helping out. But if you're arguing that it's an otherworldly Robin or Morgan, that's free enough speculation that there really isn't any way to argue it.

I guess first we'd need some evidence that anyone in the Outrealms can freely travel between worlds the way the party can.

 

[Hong]

Robin/Morgan continuity discussion has been relocated here. Thank you.