Social "Time to Tip the Scales!" - Robin Social Thread

[WakerofWinds]

I'd also like to reiterate: Breaking items is what they're pulling from Fire Emblem. If you can just hold off on your tome use slightly and it never breaks, that entire aspect of the game, the core feature they're pulling, is lost.

The tome still breaks with a regen system, so the core feature isn't lost. Rather, it's translated to fit better in the Smash universe.

Heck, certain tomes are unlikely to ever break, in that situation. I mean, if you only ever use your Up special for recovery, what are the odds that you'll need to recover frequently enough to have it break?

Limited durability is what they're pulling, I seriously doubt it's going to operate this way.

We don't know how good or useful Elwind might be outside of merely recovering, how much durability the tome will have, or what its properties will be. Many have speculated that it won't put you into free-fall animation. If that's the case, it will be pretty easy to break Elwind. All of it comes down to: How much durability will the tomes actually have. A regeneration mechanic is very practical, even if it's not the exact mechanic being translated from smash to Fire Emblem. Sakurai certainly isn't above altering mechanics and other things from games in order for them to make sense in Smash.

It's not as true as it is in some other genres, you're right. But if you have a projectile and a chance to hit, you're going to fire it. There is no downside to not doing so. And most of Robin's attacks are projectiles. Heck, you would fire it just to set up an Arcfire pillar to catch anyone charging you. Because you don't have to think about the tome wearing out unless you've been constantly spamming it.

I disagree. Arcfire has a ton of ending lag on it. That is a huge downside by itself. You may not have to think about the tome, but you certainly have to think about actually using Arcfire. A regeneration mechanic doesn't make using special moves mindless.

It's supposed to be a core feature that ties Robin to the Fire Emblem games, not an annoying anti-spam feature.

The tomes can still break, it's just made practical.

Ok, so how long would it take to recharge? Think about this. You have to balance the recharge times enough to keep breakage an actual factor in combat, while balancing those times across the four different tomes Robin can use. If it's too long, you can risk breakage not coming into play at all, as it's very rare for most players to rely on a single move over and over, but if it's too short, you risk crippling Robin's play if there's ever a situation where spamming is called for.

I'm well aware of what you would have to balance. I haven't spent enough time with the character (read: no time) to tell you how much time for recharging would be required. I would think, though, that a scheme with recharging would require the tomes to have fewer charges at for Robin to use.

Managing tome breakage is definitely far better than absolutely forgetting about it because it regenerates, until a clutch moment forces you to use a move a lot and it shatters on you.

Agree to disagree.

Breaking items is a core mechanic, it's not something that you're going to be able to get around. That's why they feature it in the trailer.

The items would still break, you know.

 

[Skyblade12]

The items would still break, you know.

I kind of doubt it. If the tome breaking puts up an extra delay over the standard regen, it becomes a state to be avoided at all costs. Most players will play specifically to avoid using tomes enough to break them, because by so doing, they incur whatever the time penalty to get a new tome is, instead of the typical time penalty to let it regen. Good Robin players will be differentiated from bad Robin players significantly by how well they can keep their tomes from breaking. "Proper tome use" will become cycling through the spells and using them all in a balanced way that keeps any from breaking.

Thus removing the entire point of the mechanic.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Never really got the Grima hype.

Half of Awakening is about Robin trying to be anything BUT Grima. If he pulls out Grima for anything in Smash, well ****.

Might as well make half of Luigi's animations related to Mr. L.

 

[.Shìkì]

Never really got the Grima hype.

Half of Awakening is about Robin trying to be anything BUT Grima. If he pulls out Grima for anything in Smash, well ****.

Might as well make half of Luigi's animations related to Mr. L.

Or make Luigi use ghosts, haha... No? I'll sign myself out...

 

[shrooby]

I always imagined Grimma as ridley's father figure.

Nonono, Ridley would be Grima's father figure.
Naga said it herself, Grima isn't a "god."
But Ridley is the "Cunning God of Death."


So, let's say there was actually a "villains trailer" of sorts...
Would Robin be in it?

 

[.Shìkì]

I kind of doubt it. If the tome breaking puts up an extra delay over the standard regen, it becomes a state to be avoided at all costs. Most players will play specifically to avoid using tomes enough to break them, because by so doing, they incur whatever the time penalty to get a new tome is, instead of the typical time penalty to let it regen. Good Robin players will be differentiated from bad Robin players significantly by how well they can keep their tomes from breaking. "Proper tome use" will become cycling through the spells and using them all in a balanced way that keeps any from breaking.

Thus removing the entire point of the mechanic.

I was under the impression that the mechanic was supposed to exactly do that : Making Sakurai able to put abilities which would be a big nono in gamedesign on a character and at the same time making managing and cycling through them necessary which puts them back into a balanced state.

Lets assume it is the mechanic where it doesn't recharge without being used up completely. Would people balance their skillusage? No, i don't think so. They will spam the hell out of thunder, when it breaks they'll switch to using arcfire, and on what we think the rechargetime is going to be, by the time you are out of arcfire you will most likely have acces to thunder again.

Look, i do not have a lot of experiance with any level of competitive play, but i have with gamedesign, and also from what i see the pro's doing, if they aren't playing characters like Fox specials are extremely underused. The are used to recover or edgeguard, and thats about it. If it was the recharge mechanic, breaking the tome could be much more punishing, like literally 30 seconds, because you can prevent exhausting your tome. Now, with a set amount of charges the recharge would need to be much faster - maybe 10-15 seconds - which would make breaking one tome, switching for another, breaking that, having the first one back etc. a viable fighting method. I just think a low-charges with regenerating tomes that make him sdance in and out of different threat ranges would be much more enjoyable. For me his whole kit just feels that way : A character that can dance between long range (Thunder, maybe ElWind) to middle range (Arcfire) to close range (Nosferatu, Jabs, Levin Sword) with ease.

Let me make up a theoretical scenario, and i hope you will consider this without lying to yourself: Would you switch up your attacks knowing doing so might end up with you ending with 0 tomes left cause they might break in a close time intervall? Or would you keep using one tome and stay at that abilties optimal range so you still have 3 options almost untouched when it breaks? If the latter is the answer you come up with, you'll know why we want recharging tomes over nonrecharging.

 

[Skyblade12]

I was under the impression that the mechanic was supposed to exactly do that : Making Sakurai able to put abilities which would be a big nono in gamedesign on a character and at the same time making managing and cycling through them necessary which puts them back into a balanced state.

It's not a "big no no" though. It's been working for Fire Emblem since the series has been around.

Lets assume it is the mechanic where it doesn't recharge without being used up completely. Would people balance their skillusage? No, i don't think so. They will spam the hell out of thunder, when it breaks they'll switch to using arcfire, and on what we think the rechargetime is going to be, by the time you are out of arcfire you will most likely have acces to thunder again.

Yeah, they'd kind of have to. As you say, the attacks are all pretty different. Range, hitstun, projectile path, etcetera. Any player who uses Robin a lot is going to have to learn to adapt to the tomes, and probably will in short order.

Besides, you're missing the point. It's not about tome balance, it's about tome RATIONING. It's about being careful where and when you use your abilities. Knowing that you have a limited pool with a lengthy cooldown should you overuse it will make you play more conservatively, or overexert yourself straining for a KO, leaving you vulnerable if you fail to get it. There has been so much talk about how powerful each ability seems, but if you can only draw them from a limited pool, that power is offset by the reduced usability, and the fact that you can't use it freely or it WILL result in your character being powerless when you run out of moves.

Look, i do not have a lot of experiance with any level of competitive play, but i have with gamedesign, and also from what i see the pro's doing, if they aren't playing characters like Fox specials are extremely underused. The are used to recover or edgeguard, and thats about it. If it was the recharge mechanic, breaking the tome could be much more punishing, like literally 30 seconds, because you can prevent exhausting your tome. Now, with a set amount of charges the recharge would need to be much faster - maybe 10-15 seconds - which would make breaking one tome, switching for another, breaking that, having the first one back etc. a viable fighting method. I just think a low-charges with regenerating tomes that make him sdance in and out of different threat ranges would be much more enjoyable. For me his whole kit just feels that way : A character that can dance between long range (Thunder, maybe ElWind) to middle range (Arcfire) to close range (Nosferatu, Jabs, Levin Sword) with ease.

I have some experience with game design as well. I also lack a lot of experience with Super Smash Brothers on a serious level. But you talk about specials largely being useless in competition. Maybe so. In that case, though, regeneration would again just mean breaking tomes won't come into play.

Consider a normal match. Smash 4 seems to be presenting a two minute timed match as typical for "For Glory" or competitive modes (that's what we saw in the tourney and on the expo floor, I believe). How many times would you expect to use a single special within that time limit? Five? Ten? How many charges would it take to break a tome? How many charges would you be forced to use?

Then keep in mind that, if you get KO'd, your count resets anyway. Personally, I'd be ok with a twenty second respawn timer for tomes in that case. Because it encourages you to not waste them. Robin is looking to have some heavy specials. But that power comes with a cost. You can't afford to use it willy-nilly.

Let me make up a theoretical scenario, and i hope you will consider this without lying to yourself: Would you switch up your attacks knowing doing so might end up with you ending with 0 tomes left cause they might break in a close time intervall? Or would you keep using one tome and stay at that abilties optimal range so you still have 3 options almost untouched when it breaks? If the latter is the answer you come up with, you'll know why we want recharging tomes over nonrecharging.

Actually, yes. Since the trailer, it's been one of the things I've been most looking forward to. I've been playing hundreds of hours of Awakening over the last year. I've been totally ok with NEVER HAVING A TOME REGENERATE EVER. There's a constant balance (especially if you play a no DLC run) between knowing when to pull out a lower power Thunder tome, and when to risk having a powerful weapon break.

Anyone who has played a Lunatic run knows how important Frederick's Silver Lance is, and managing it to have it available for bosses, while giving him a weaker weapon with more durability for the trash.

When you play Apotheosis, you only get so many weapons to take into that mission. Sure, you can pull more from your Convoy, but that's a slow process that requires getting close to Chrom. You have to manage each character's inventory of weapons, knowing when to switch to a new one because your current one is breaking and won't let you survive the onslaught of foes that will be coming.

I want that same feel in Smash. I want to be forced to consider when my specials would be worth using, when it would be strategic to pull out the heavy damage.

Another example for you: The start of the match, you're in a good close range situation, but nearly full on health. Would you cast Nosferatu, knowing that if you do so you're losing a limited charge and coming one step closer to running out, even though you might not get the full effect of the heals? Or would you do a simple grab and hit, getting much the same result, but saving Nosferatu for when you get low on life?

That's the sort of situation that just won't happen with regenerating tomes. There will be far fewer cases where you have to consider "is it worth actually using a tome here", because the tome durability doesn't matter.

 

[.Shìkì]

It's not a "big no no" though. It's been working for Fire Emblem since the series has been around.

I was referring to eg. A Command Grab that stuns, damnages and drains life, aswell as (maybe) a recovery that doesn't put you into freefall as big "nonos" in terms of smash. Oh and add Aerial Smashes to that.

Actually, yes. Since the trailer, it's been one of the things I've been most looking forward to. I've been playing hundreds of hours of Awakening over the last year. I've been totally ok with NEVER HAVING A TOME REGENERATE EVER. There's a constant balance (especially if you play a no DLC run) between knowing when to pull out a lower power Thunder tome, and when to risk having a powerful weapon break.

So, what you are saying is, you want a character that is in there to be not just another "boring" sword fighting melee class to degenrate into exactly that after one stock and never be getting his abilites back til a new match is started?

You are saying that spamming long range projectiles, then spamming midrange projectiles, then spamming longrange projectiles again would be more interesting than having to constantly adapt and change your respective range to avoid turning into cannon fodder? You are saying running permanently out of recoveries is good gamedesign? You are saying, a method that would make switching your specials up leading to a suicide like state where you have 0 specials avaiable is preferable to a method that would need you to switch it up? Just for the sake of it being like in an RPG despite this being a Brawler where changes HAVE to be made for balancing reasons?

Gee i really hope I'll never have to play a game you designed.

Really, be glad Sakurai didn't decide to go "well Robin can change class and achieve Armsthrift so no degenerating items needed!" on you. I really like the take on durability on items, but having the Levin Sword have charges that only recharge after its destruction makes sense as it just powers up his attacks normally using the bronze sword. It could have been like that too, the tomes just make his moves more powerful and when they break he only has the weakest spell of that category left, but they decided to make it like Warios Bike in Brawl, where it is completely unavaiable.

^Forget that i was just being annoyed at this point, sorry. I'll just throw the fact out there that, while non-regenerating Weapons and Tomes are a good fit for an RPG (and i never doubted that), in a Brawler thats supposed to be it paced it doesn't make sense to implement that exactly like this.


Also, you seem to think having to worry about letting the tomes regenerate would make Robin's game slow? Then think about how campy he will be the second a tome breaks, players might simply camp on the edge of the stage punishing any attempt to come close with arcfire or thunder (depending on which tome they broke) until the respective tome is avaiable again. To me this sounds way less fun, way more stale and way more defensive, than jumping in and out of long, mid and close combat.


On a completely different note, Sakurais mentioning of "overuse will break the tome" could also translate to a system like this: You have x amounts of time you can use the same special in succession. Every time you use another spell (or y other spells), one point regenerates. Difficult to keep track of without visual help, of course, but it wouldgive Robin access to a more agressive playstyle, and, at the same time give counterplay to him if the opponent keeps track of what Robin used : "Oh he just fired 3 Tunder? I can expect him to try an approach to get an Arcfire or a close ranged attack on me now, so i can prepare for it".

Another idea on how it could work : A charge system how you want it, but with a twist: If you fire a Thunder and have cast any of the other spells before, that Thunder will be counted as having Armsthrift and not cost a point. Firing a thunder upon a thunder costs a point. Again it would force Robin to switch the attacks up more, but i do not think this would be a good option because never using an attack twice makes his spells all permanent (sure you can sometimes not avoid using an ability twice but...), I'm just trying to get more options out here to keep speculations going.

 

[Skyblade12]

I was referring to eg. A Command Grab that stuns, damnages and drains life, aswell as (maybe) a recovery that doesn't put you into freefall as big "nonos" in terms of smash. Oh and add Aerial Smashes to that.

I've seen no evidence, only speculation, about the "no freefall" thing. Honestly, I'm not even sure where that comment came from, except for more people trying to explain away "durability is insane, so Robin must be broken to make up for it". We also don't have much information at all about how Nosferatu works.

So, what you are saying is, you want a character that is in there to be not just another "boring" sword fighting melee class to degenrate into exactly that after one stock and never be getting his abilites back til a new match is started?

Um, no, I said the exact opposite. After you lose a stock, your tomes all regenerate to full.

You are saying that spamming long range projectiles, then spamming midrange projectiles, then spamming longrange projectiles again would be more interesting than having to constantly adapt and change your respective range to avoid turning into cannon fodder? You are saying running permanently out of recoveries is good gamedesign? You are saying, a method that would make switching your specials up leading to a suicide like state where you have 0 specials avaiable is preferable to a method that would need you to switch it up? Just for the sake of it being like in an RPG despite this being a Brawler where changes HAVE to be made for balancing reasons?

I'm saying that SPAMMING projectiles requires no tactical thought at all. That finding yourself in a situation where you can take full advantage of one of Robin's very powerful moves, and using it then, is going to involve way more tactical depth than just spamming moves, and knowing they'll never break because they'll just regenerate.

Really, be glad Sakurai didn't decide to go "well Robin can change class and achieve Armsthrift so no degenerating items needed!" on you. I really like the take on durability on items, but having the Levin Sword have charges that only recharge after its destruction makes sense as it just powers up his attacks normally using the bronze sword. It could have been like that too, the tomes just make his moves more powerful and when they break he only has the weakest spell of that category left, but they decided to make it like Warios Bike in Brawl, where it is completely unavaiable.

I am quite glad, because it brings something new and different to the table. It makes the tactician someone who actually requires some tactics to play.

Also, you seem to think having to worry about letting the tomes regenerate would make Robin's game slow? Then think about how campy he will be the second a tome breaks, players might simply camp on the edge of the stage punishing any attempt to come close with arcfire or thunder (depending on which tome they broke) until the respective tome is avaiable again. To me this sounds way less fun, way more stale and way more defensive, than jumping in and out of long, mid and close combat.

No, I'm more worried about letting them regenerate resulting in tomes essentially never running out, and Robin's unique playstyle being pulled from Fire Emblem resulting in nothing new at all.

On a completely different note, Sakurais mentioning of "overuse will break the tome" could also translate to a system like this: You have x amounts of time you can use the same special in succession. Every time you use another spell (or y other spells), one point regenerates. Difficult to keep track of without visual help, of course, but it wouldgive Robin access to a more agressive playstyle, and, at the same time give counterplay to him if the opponent keeps track of what Robin used : "Oh he just fired 3 Tunder? I can expect him to try an approach to get an Arcfire or a close ranged attack on me now, so i can prepare for it".

Another idea on how it could work : A charge system how you want it, but with a twist: If you fire a Thunder and have cast any of the other spells before, that Thunder will be counted as having Armsthrift and not cost a point. Firing a thunder upon a thunder costs a point. Again it would force Robin to switch the attacks up more, but i do not think this would be a good option because never using an attack twice makes his spells all permanent (sure you can sometimes not avoid using an ability twice but...), I'm just trying to get more options out here to keep speculations going.

Feel free, but I think you're kind of overthinking things. The durability mechanic is being pulled from Fire Emblem. We also know that the Levin Sword is working much the same way as I'm describing. I really doubt that the tomes are going to be regenerating. That's not how they worked in the original game, and I don't see the justification for making that change to Smash Bros.

 

[Frostwraith]

Yeah, male Robin in Smash is the very epitome of default. It's what you get when you select the male option that is highlighted by default, make no changes to physical appearance and voice, and give the default name (Robin).

By the way, it seems that female Robin's voice in English doesn't match any of her three voice options in Awakening... It's too high pitched compared to any of them. Could it be that she got a new voice actress?

Male Robin is the same voice actor as the 1st option. The "Time to tip the scales!" line is very recognizable. Female Robin also utters that line, but it's clear it doesn't match any her three voices.

 

[ToothiestAura]

I don't see male and female as opposite things, so I don't see how male Robin contrasts with Lucina. Robin being female by default would actually make things even. Marth and Ike/Robin and Lucina. Either way, I am hoping both Robins are featured in their slot, like in the fake CSS.

There was another fake CSS with Robin, or are you saying there was a CSS in the past that had both f the Wii Fit Trainers on the slot?

 

[ToothiestAura]

Inb4 Robin was also actually Soren.

 

[.Shìkì]

I've seen no evidence, only speculation, about the "no freefall" thing. Honestly, I'm not even sure where that comment came from, except for more people trying to explain away "durability is insane, so Robin must be broken to make up for it". We also don't have much information at all about how Nosferatu works.

That's why i included the maybe. And think about it for a second: If, for example, Thunder would be just as good as Samus charge Beam, then WHY would you limit its usage in the first place? Yes i GET IT ALREADY, its a Fire Emblem thing, i knew that before and i still now it now, but honestly: Are Samus' Missiles or Bombs limited in Smash? Are they? Nope, they are NOT. So either Robins moves are powerful enough to warrant durability, or it simply makes the moves weaker in comparison to unlimited moves. As we saw, the hitstun on Arcthunder was pretty nifty and Thoron hits right through people. If roughly the same damage and knockback as Samus' Charge Beam applies, as well as similar chargetimes, then that is a reason to limit it in some way: Because it is simply stronger than a similar attack. You don'T have to bring up the "but we don't know" arguement btw, this is called a speculation thread for a reason, hence i debate using my personal ideas (aka speculations) about how i would implement this stuff, aswell as some common knowledge about what people like to call balance.

I'm saying that SPAMMING projectiles requires no tactical thought at all. That finding yourself in a situation where you can take full advantage of one of Robin's very powerful moves, and using it then, is going to involve way more tactical depth than just spamming moves, and knowing they'll never break because they'll just regenerate.

And I'm still saying nonrecharging tomes would end up being the spam and campfest. Hence requiring no tactical thought.

Let me present the question to you again: What is more tactical?

a) Spam Thunder until it's gone, Spam Arcfire until its gone upon which Thunder will have regenerated -> repeat.

b) Carefully planning on when to use which move to not risk a tome breaking in the first place, which would cause a hefty downtime of that ability. So you will be also mixing Jabs and Smashes (which are close range) to reduce tome usage.


Yes you could obviously also use jabs and so on with the first approach, but would that have any benefit over staying out of range and savely behind "walls of projectiles"? Also the instant you run out of ElWind you will rush for a camp spot anyway. With a) that moment WILL come. With b) you can balance out defensive and offensive use of ElWind.

All this still under the assumption breaking a tome that recharges will make the downtime a lot higher than when exhausting your tome would be the only way to get a refill. And, let's be honest, as soon as you drop below 3 charges you will want to get rid of them to got to max charges again.

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

Inb4 Robin was also actually Soren.

! I love Soren <3 It's me, but 50000 times better

 

[Reila]

There was another fake CSS with Robin, or are you saying there was a CSS in the past that had both f the Wii Fit Trainers on the slot?

There is a fake CSS with both Robins in. This one:

Spoiler

Honestly, I will be a bit disappointed if only male Robin is featured in the CSS. He already got the spotlight in the trailer, can female Robin get some recognition please?

 

[ToothiestAura]

There is a fake CSS with both Robins in. This one:

Spoiler

Thanks, it slipped by my radar, I suppose.

 

[Frostwraith]

I think Lyn recognizing Robin as the tactician might involve some 4th wall breaking, considering both the FE7 tactician and Robin are player avatars... She's not addressing Robin in-game, but actually addressing the player in a kind of subtle way.

Just my opinion, though.

 

[Skyblade12]

That's why i included the maybe. And think about it for a second: If, for example, Thunder would be just as good as Samus charge Beam, then WHY would you limit its usage in the first place? Yes i GET IT ALREADY, its a Fire Emblem thing, i knew that before and i still now it now, but honestly: Are Samus' Missiles or Bombs limited in Smash? Are they? Nope, they are NOT. So either Robins moves are powerful enough to warrant durability, or it simply makes the moves weaker in comparison to unlimited moves. As we saw, the hitstun on Arcthunder was pretty nifty and Thoron hits right through people. If roughly the same damage and knockback as Samus' Charge Beam applies, as well as similar chargetimes, then that is a reason to limit it in some way: Because it is simply stronger than a similar attack. You don'T have to bring up the "but we don't know" arguement btw, this is called a speculation thread for a reason, hence i debate using my personal ideas (aka speculations) about how i would implement this stuff, aswell as some common knowledge about what people like to call balance.

Yes, Robin's moves are more powerful. That doesn't mean they're game breaking, as multiple Elwind recovery would be. Elwind is already looking to be a pretty awesome recovery, especially if it is able to be aimed. I don't see why it would break the normal rules about freefall, though.

And I'm still saying nonrecharging tomes would end up being the spam and campfest. Hence requiring no tactical thought.

Let me present the question to you again: What is more tactical?

a) Spam Thunder until it's gone, Spam Arcfire until its gone upon which Thunder will have regenerated -> repeat.

b) Carefully planning on when to use which move to not risk a tome breaking in the first place, which would cause a hefty downtime of that ability. So you will be also mixing Jabs and Smashes (which are close range) to reduc tome usage.


Yes you could obviously also use jabs and so on with the first approach, but would that have any benefit over staying out of range and savely behind "walls of projectiles"? Also the instant you run out of ElWind you will rush for a camp spot anyway. With a) that moment WILL come. With b) you can balance out defensive and offensive use of ElWind.

Ok, let me try a new idea. Pretend that you have five casts per stock of each tome, and it never regenerates until you die. Would you spam then?

You're assuming that by the time you cycle through all your abilities, the first would be up again. Maybe, but I doubt that (actually, I doubt that you'd survive long enough to cast all of your abilities, period, if you're just spamming).

If you don't have to worry about durability, you're going to spam. If running out carries a significant delay, you're going to be careful about where you use your spells. Even when you KO someone, you won't just thoughtlessly cast out your last Elwind to start the tome regenerating if you know that person can get back in the fight before the regeneration finishes.

Although at this point, I'm pretty sure the discussion has gotten kind of pointless. I don't think we'll agree on that point. But we both have our philosophies out there, and I guess we'll see who's right when more information is revealed.



...I want to play the game NOW.

 

[Folt]

I think Lyn recognizing Robin as the tactician might involve some 4th wall breaking, considering both the FE7 tactician and Robin are player avatars... She's not addressing Robin in-game, but actually addressing the player in a kind of subtle way.

Just my opinion, though.

Pretty much my opinion as well. For me, the one Lyn referred to was never really Robin, but myself.

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

I think Lyn recognizing Robin as the tactician might involve some 4th wall breaking, considering both the FE7 tactician and Robin are player avatars... She's not addressing Robin in-game, but actually addressing the player in a kind of subtle way.

Just my opinion, though.

Yeah, but it seems to be more then that based on Lyn's dialogue.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think Lyn recognizing Robin as the tactician might involve some 4th wall breaking, considering both the FE7 tactician and Robin are player avatars... She's not addressing Robin in-game, but actually addressing the player in a kind of subtle way.

Just my opinion, though.

What if... Lyn actually fell in love with Robin?

 

[Skyblade12]

What if... Lyn actually fell in love with Robin?

It would hardly surprise me. There are hints to it all throughout Rekka no Ken, especially during Lyn's chapters. And her reunion with Robin should you agree that you remember her is hardly subtle about it either.

Again, nothing definitive, but enough that you can easily make that argument.

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

What if... Lyn actually fell in love with Robin?

Eww. No. Lyn's boring to me. I'll stick to Chrom. I just feel she's filler, and she's not even in 6, which takes place after 7. I don't even think she's mentioned.

 

[Skyblade12]

Eww. No. Lyn's boring to me. I'll stick to Chrom. I just feel she's filler, and she's not even in 6, which takes place after 7. I don't even think she's mentioned.

Mewtwo wasn't in Brawl either, even though it took place after Melee. Are you suggesting he was "just filler"?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Mewtwo wasn't in Brawl either, even though it took place after Melee. Are you suggesting he was "just filler"?

Even though I do feel that Lyn is great, that was a false analogy.

 

[Skyblade12]

Even though I do feel that Lyn is great, that was a false analogy.

Ok, how about this one, then:

Aigis doesn't show up in Persona 4. Does that make her "just filler"?

Ooh, or we could say:

Tingle doesn't show up in A Link Between Worlds, does that make him "just filler"?

Wait, nevermind. Forget that last one.

 

[.Shìkì]

Yes, Robin's moves are more powerful. That doesn't mean they're game breaking, as multiple Elwind recovery would be. Elwind is already looking to be a pretty awesome recovery, especially if it is able to be aimed. I don't see why it would break the normal rules about freefall, though.

Only reason i brought this up is that there was no sign of freefalling on the move yet.

Ok, let me try a new idea. Pretend that you have five casts per stock of each tome, and it never regenerates until you die. Would you spam then?

Already confirmed to recharge after a time, and the wording was "breaks after an amount of sue" on Levin Sword and "breaks on overusage" on tomes, hence the discussion on whether or not they recharge when not used.

You're assuming that by the time you cycle through all your abilities, the first would be up again. Maybe, but I doubt that (actually, I doubt that you'd survive long enough to cast all of your abilities, period, if you're just spamming).

I'm assuming that as Sakurai mentioned "quickly recharging" for tomes, aswell as my "if there is nothing you can do to prevent them from breaking, the punishment isn't as hard as if you could prevent it" standpoint. Also, I have seen Fox-users fire tons of lasers. The general take in competitive seems to be "if you do not need to approach, then don't, and zone with projectiles".

If you don't have to worry about durability, you're going to spam. If running out carries a significant delay, you're going to be careful about where you use your spells. Even when you KO someone, you won't just thoughtlessly cast out your last Elwind to start the tome regenerating if you know that person can get back in the fight before the regeneration finishes.

But tomes regenerating wouldn't mean "not needing to worry about durability". It all would stand and fall with the implementation. You could do it like Epona in LoZ OoT : if not all are used, recharge one every x seconds, if all are used, regenerate all after y seconds. There could be a delay on when regenerating starts, like, 10 seconds or so. It could be tied to using other moves, it could even be tied to onlöy start regeneration on hitting someone with jabs. Thats all at the programmers disposal.

...I want to play the game NOW.

Agreed.

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

Nooo, that's all completely different. It's like, she is in 7, and most of the characters from 7 are brought back or at least mentioned (dead, retired, etc), and Lyn being a main character and completely forgotten about was just odd.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Keep in mind that 7 was a prequel to 6, meaning Lyn was created after FE6 was made.

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

Keep in mind that 7 was a prequel to 6, meaning Lyn was created after FE6 was made.

Very true, I did forget that. That puts a hole in me

 

[JaidynReiman]

Never really got the Grima hype.

Half of Awakening is about Robin trying to be anything BUT Grima. If he pulls out Grima for anything in Smash, well ****.

Might as well make half of Luigi's animations related to Mr. L.

Yeah, I think Robin should remain neutral, but I would like a possessed Robin to show up in other game modes as the "Fire Emblem" villain representative.

 

[Skyblade12]

Very true, I did forget that. That puts a hole in me

Not trying to flame here, but...

How did you forget that 7 was made after 6? There are these number things that kind of indicate order of production...

I mean, if you just referred to them as Rekka no Ken and Fuuin no Tsurugi, I could understand it. But you call them by number. I'm sorry, it just struck me as kind of ridiculous.

 

[AustarusIV]

There is a fake CSS with both Robins in. This one:

Spoiler

Honestly, I will be a bit disappointed if only male Robin is featured in the CSS. He already got the spotlight in the trailer, can female Robin get some recognition please?

That looks good. It just shows to show that you can fit both Robins on the CSS and it wouldn't look out of place.

I hope Sakurai goes through with that. Why else did he show female!Robin's render alongside the male version, when the male Wii Fit Trainer and female Villager have yet to show up with official renders?

 

[The Light Music Club]

Yeah, I think Robin should remain neutral, but I would like a possessed Robin to show up in other game modes as the "Fire Emblem" villain representative.

I'd prefer to have the Black Knight be part of the game somehow as a villain.

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

Not trying to flame here, but...

How did you forget that 7 was made after 6? There are these number things that kind of indicate order of production...

I'm an idiot xD I played 7 first, and the whole 7 is a prequel to 6 made me think 6 comes after. Basically, I'm an idiot who can't do numbers. I just forgot I guess. Lyn just kinda comes out of the random in 7. But obviously, so do other characters who aren't as important.

 

[Skyblade12]

I'm an idiot xD I played 7 first, and the whole 7 is a prequel to 6 made me think 6 comes after. Basically, I'm an idiot who can't do numbers. I just forgot I guess. Lyn just kinda comes out of the random in 7. But obviously, so do other characters who aren't as important.

At least you played Fuiin no Tsurugi. It never got an official US translation, so not many people have. Are you a Roy fan now?

 

[Deleted member]

I'd prefer to have the Black Knight be part of the game somehow as a villain.

I would love to see the Black Knight as some sort of Adventure Mode boss or something, so long as they can make it work given that he is usually a slow walking tank that doesn't take damage.

But I trust Sakurai's abilities to make things work in Smash so I feel like it could be a possibility.

 

[Fireemblemfreak]

At least you played Fuiin no Tsurugi. It never got an official US translation, so not many people have. Are you a Roy fan now?

Um, yeah, I haven't really "played" it, which probably makes me seem like a huge ass but I've played a patch up to half way maybe, and I know who the characters are, and most of what happens. Am I a Roy fan? No. I used to like him somewhat until I played 6, then that went away. xD

 

[Skyblade12]

Only reason i brought this up is that there was no sign of freefalling on the move yet.

Ok, true, but every other recovery has it, so I didn't see any reason to question it without some indication of an alternative.

Already confirmed to recharge after a time, and the wording was "breaks after an amount of sue" on Levin Sword and "breaks on overusage" on tomes, hence the discussion on whether or not they recharge when not used.

My point is that the duration of the recharge is what determines whether wearing them out is a viable strategy or not. If they regenerate in a second, you would break them no problem. If they regenerate after two minutes, you'd be very, very cautious. It's all a balance issue.

I'm assuming that as Sakurai mentioned "quickly recharging" for tomes, aswell as my "if there is nothing you can do to prevent them from breaking, the punishment isn't as hard as if you could prevent it" standpoint. Also, I have seen Fox-users fire tons of lasers. The general take in competitive seems to be "if you do not need to approach, then don't, and zone with projectiles".

You can prevent them from breaking, though. Don't use the moves. I don't see why you need to make the tome recovery mechanic weaker just because it's going to break. You already know it's going to break going in. You have to prepare for it.

But tomes regenerating wouldn't mean "not needing to worry about durability". It all would stand and fall with the implementation. You could do it like Epona in LoZ OoT : if not all are used, recharge one every x seconds, if all are used, regenerate all after y seconds. There could be a delay on when regenerating starts, like, 10 seconds or so. It could be tied to using other moves, it could even be tied to onlöy start regeneration on hitting someone with jabs. Thats all at the programmers disposal.

Well, break on use or regenerate both stand or fall on implementation. I just chose the one which I got the impression they're going with, both on the initial trailer ("I can only use them so many times") and the fact that they're pulling it from Fire Emblem, where it doesn't work via recharge.

Agreed.

Two and a half months to go. Yay?

 

[Skyblade12]

Um, yeah, I haven't really "played" it, which probably makes me seem like a huge *** but I've played a patch up to half way maybe, and I know who the characters are, and most of what happens. Am I a Roy fan? No. I used to like him somewhat until I played 6, then that went away. xD

Finding a good fan translation can be hard, no one blames you for that.

We blame you for not liking Lyn. Because Lyn is awesome.