Time to start over..? (Sorry, another rant)

[Deleted member]

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[Raijinken]

What reason is there to be ashamed of that? It's only bad if you don't play as him like a boxer. Patient, saving the strong attacks for the moments you're most sure of. Jab, jab. One two. Counter punch. See the hit coming and dodge it. Try playing Punch Out.

Here's another tip: learn to play as the characters that you have trouble with. I want to learn to play as Marth properly so I can understand not only how to fight him, but to learn proper spacing.

This is good advice. Playing as characters you struggle against can teach you not only their weaknesses and strengths, but also specific skills.

 

[SmashChu]

So... I took the advice of the last big post I made to heart. Trained with some FC buddies, learned some tricks for a few characters, watched other people playing and tried to control my anxiety. And how do you think that's fared for me?

I just keep losing, and losing, and losing. Win rate has yet to climb over 30-40%

It feels like no mater how much I learn everyone is always a hundred steps ahead of me. I've had matches where people defeat me and I barely can hit them once. I mix things up, I try and keep advanced tactics in their mind, but someone who has picked Little Mac and only uses dash attacks could easily defeat me. I block with as good timing as I can, I grab when needed, and I don't spam rolls, but they still see all my defenses coming and teabag me for good measure. One player today taunted every time he attacked me, knowing I couldn't attack him back. He was Ike, just to point out - someone I've hardly ever been able to defeat since Brawl was first released. He/She then switched to the same character I was playing as before - dominated me, and to be honest, bought a tear to my eyes.

Mario and Sonic are the two I I've looked at most. Mario because he's the only one I could clear Classic 9.0 with (it took 40 tries) and Sonic because I just like his character. I tried others, but they're just not working out, like Pac Man (too predictable, poor grab), Donkey Kong (never hits, easily juggled), Kirby (poor approaches, too predictable) and Wii Fit Trainer (boring, dodgy hitboxes). I might win once in a while, but only if I get so lucky that someone accidentally tosses themselves off course. It also feels like it takes a tonne of wins to raise my win rate, but a single loss just dunks my win rate further into the pit of poorness.

What's the best way for me to share my gameplay so people can see exactly where I fail (or fail most at)? Or is it time to just pack up and uninstall the game, since I haven't improved?

First, if you're improving, that's all that matters.

I saw your original post. One thing I'll say is Reddit gave you awful advice on getting good. It's the same problem in other fighting games: people learn the combos but not the fundamentals (footies and zoning).

First, don't worry about abusing rolls. Rolls are awesome. They keep you safe. Staying safe is what matters. What you want to be careful of it which roll you use. Back rolls are invincible for the entire animation. Forward rolls are invincible during the middle of it. Use back rolls to retreat. Just be careful if you're at the edge.

What you should focus on now is rolling and shield grabbing. People are usually over aggressive so they are easy to punish. Just dodge and counter attack. Sidestep dodges are also good too because you can counter with a lot of different moves. Once you get these down, you can focus on other things.

Sorry about the poor quality video, but here's a prime example of why I fail. 65 hours doesn't mean a damn when you have no talent from the beginning ;(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwCcj9XovxE

First, you play better than you think. I think your problem is you don't react fast enough, and you extend more than your skills will allow.
0:12 - This is what I mean. Zelda blocks and attacks you. You did dodge the follow up, which is good.
0:17 - same. You also attacked to early here
0:19 - Good roll, but your grab was late. Were you a bit earlier, you would have had here
0:28 - so this is what I mean. You punch, but she does her B moves (Nyrule's Love). Had you had been faster, you would have gotten all three hits in.
0:31-again, good hit
0:35-0:41 - You play very well here. You went off the ledge but didn't die and you didn't get hit and you did damage
0:50 - Here is where you drop the ball. You really shouldn't have gone off the edge. All that happen was you got hit and died. Given, had you mashed B, you would have lived.
0:59 - you wait a long time to throw. You could have pummeled her there
1:02 - You could counter with an up smash her. Remeber when you play Classic and the CPUs always do up smashes as you fall? It's because it's hard to deal with that when you're falling. Even if she dodged, you could have grabbed her maybe. When someone is falling like that, it's a way of reaction, and the player on the ground usually has the advantage.
1:05 - Not much you could have done there. Best bet is to go for the ledge. You would have been harder to spike like that.

You're not as bad as you think. You just need more exposure. You reaction time is bad and you are doing things that are going to be hard for you right now (anything off stage). You don't need advance tips. You need fundamentals. You're dodging was fine, but you did get counter attacked often. Here's my advice. Again, pick 5 characters you like and ONLY play them. This gives you some variety but allows you to still learn a hand full of characters. From there, play some of the other modes. I would try Team Smash or Smash in For Glory. You can build up your skills there. Plus, victory is not entirely dependent on you. For Fun is good too, but since you're on the 3DS avoid it. Just keep playing. The only thing I would avoid for now is off stage stuff. You are better off just staying planted. You wont die that way.

Also, in general, you could use fireball more. Zelda can reflect it, but it's a good way to make her come to you.

EDIT: Saw the match against Palutena. You won because you did some of the things I said

• You used fireballs to space
• You won the match with an upsmash as she came down at you.
• You had a forward roll which got you an upsmash
• You didn't go offstage. You were just a terror onstage.
• You used your down b well which helped you out on your second stock.

I would just look at that match and try to keep doing what worked for you there. BTW, that second stock was all you man.

EDIT2: The Little Mac match - that's your typical Little Mac. Shielding and grabs would win you that match. You had a good spike to take his first stock. On his second stock, you grabs a lot and it helped you a lot. Your problem was you went too far out. You could have won that match with all grabs.

 

[Daxter]

Thank you everyone; I really appreciate the expert feedback, and I hope I can return the favour!

I'm back online and hosting a room for anyone who wants to join for training. I'm gonna try and be upbeat, upbeat, upbeat! Like this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWP-CGmi_D4

 

[Hayzie]

Easy way to counter Little Mac is too camp on the edge of the stage, eventually he'll get impatient and charge to you, most likely going for a F-Tilt. Shield whatever attack he throws at you and shield grab him, then throw him off the stage, try and spike him if you can, if not then just repeat.

THis is currently my only way of knowing how to counter Mac as I used to main him. *Ashamed face*

Yeah, no. A new player to Little Mac sure. A Little Mac main knows this is what you're waiting for at the edge. They'll grab you first and toss you off. It's their territory.

 

[Kaiboiii]

Yeah, no. A new player to Little Mac sure. A Little Mac main knows this is what you're waiting for at the edge. They'll grab you first and toss you off. It's their territory.

Then a good Little Mac is unbeatable.

 

[Hayzie]

Then a good Little Mac is unbeatable.

Beatable, but it's definitely in his favor by a lot. Anyone who says otherwise clearly plays Little Mac.

 

[Daxter]

As you can see in a lot of my videos, I tend to Smash attack a lot; usually I only want to do Strong attacks though, but it's much easier to tap the stick to Smash. Up tilt attacks in particular simply don't happen. (Tap jump is off btw).

Kirby would be an ideal character for me, as his attacks seem to be the exception to this for some reason, but I never win as him.

 

[Raijinken]

As you can see in a lot of my videos, I tend to Smash attack a lot; usually I only want to do Strong attacks though, but it's much easier to tap the stick to Smash. Up tilt attacks in particular simply don't happen. (Tap jump is off btw).

Kirby would be an ideal character for me, as his attacks seem to be the exception to this for some reason, but I never win as him.

It's easier on consoles than the 3DS, but just takes practice in general. Leaving Tap Jump off definitely helps, though. If you're Smashing too much, try slightly (VERY slightly) delaying the A press.

 

[SmashChu]

As you can see in a lot of my videos, I tend to Smash attack a lot; usually I only want to do Strong attacks though, but it's much easier to tap the stick to Smash. Up tilt attacks in particular simply don't happen. (Tap jump is off btw).

Kirby would be an ideal character for me, as his attacks seem to be the exception to this for some reason, but I never win as him.

That's more a limitation of the 3DS. It's easier on the Wii U for sure.

 

[Daxter]

I hope that's the case. Also Zelda is a huge problem for me; the teleport in particular is so quick, even when I add an outline with the touchscreen, it gets me every time. It really shouldn't be able to KO in my opinion. ;( Her Neutral/Side-Bs also get me a lot due to their deceptively huge range, and that by the time I can close in on her, she just knocks me away again to repeat the process. In my personal opinion, she can be overpowered in group or team games.

Ike is a similar problem. The range of all his attacks is huge; no matter how many times he does an up-smash, I never see it coming. He's been a problem for me since the days of Brawl, and also is the bane of one of my friends, who is a competitive player.

EDIT: A bit more detail. When you see me doing things like fast-falling or combos, I have no idea I'm pulling those off. I just press buttons and hope for the best. I cannot think straight in games because I'm terrified of losing - my low self esteem means I have a very perfectionist nature - so any plans I had go out the window. And when I take a break and read an online guide, I get utterly confused at the complexity of it all. What's a hitbox and how did they figure it out? I can't remember all the steps in DGrab, FAir, BAir, Fast Fall, SSmash (etc). What's a cancel, and why can't I do it in practice mode? Things like that tell me that I lack even the most basic fundamentals of the game. If SSB4 is the most basic Smash game, I wouldn't stand a ghost of a chance at the prequels.

Btw, win rate in the last 30 game. 2/30. Oh dear. I played Team battles where I lost to the same Zelda/Wario team 6 times in a row. They kept using the same tricks and I kept falling for them. Are video games really the best hobby for someone so dumb?

 

[deech]

Main thing I noticed from your movements is the fact that you're thinking way too much.

Playing smash should kind of be like driving a car. If you're thinking of every little detail while driving (or playing your character) it's going to come out awkwardly. You need to drive your car as if you ARE the car. Similarly, you should play your character naturally as if you were one with it.

Sorry if I confused you, but that was the first thing that came to my mind.

 

[Beard Hawk]

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE

Don't wait for the other person to do what they want to do. Then you have to react correctly, which is always hard. Put them under pressure and force them to make more mistakes. In your matches, you are actually much better than you might think you are. You have lost to people who are worse than you skillwise. When you dictate the match you do really well. Put on some heavy music (Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead? Whatever makes you want to fight) and see if that helps. Go into settings and turn off the game music but keep the game sound on.
Don't worry about showing off techniques, just focus on winning and let the techniques naturally happen when they are needed. Think about techniques only in training mode, in matches think about your opponent's strategy and how to beat it. For example, Little Mac MUST approach, so your green fireballs will mess up his plans, he can't counter them. Dictate the match to be all about him having to avoid getting hit by a fireball, and when he gets past them smack him/throw him, make him have to react to you. Against Samus, her missiles are better than your fireballs so get close and don't give her a chance to shoot you. Ruin their plans with your plans.
Finally, I would suggest just picking ONE character and playing with them until you start winning often. This will help because you will always know what to expect from your character, like how high they jump, how fast they fall, how fast an attack happens. If you switch characters every match then you won't know as much about your character, and, as it says in "The Art Of War": you must know YOURSELF as well as your enemy.

 

[Xcano]

I have the same issue, but with me it's not about skill. I can win just fine, I just lost a WHOLE lot when I first started playing. I would recommend trying Team Smash and studying what people do during those matches. You'll lose a lot less on Team Smash, I can promise you that.

Also, stop thinking. Chose a character you are good with and run with them, the movements should be very natural.

 

[Daxter]

Main thing I noticed from your movements is the fact that you're thinking way too much.

Playing smash should kind of be like driving a car. If you're thinking of every little detail while driving (or playing your character) it's going to come out awkwardly. You need to drive your car as if you ARE the car. Similarly, you should play your character naturally as if you were one with it.

Sorry if I confused you, but that was the first thing that came to my mind.

Actually it makes a lot of sense! Thank you for the idea

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE

Don't wait for the other person to do what they want to do. Then you have to react correctly, which is always hard. Put them under pressure and force them to make more mistakes. In your matches, you are actually much better than you might think you are. You have lost to people who are worse than you skillwise. When you dictate the match you do really well. Put on some heavy music (Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead? Whatever makes you want to fight) and see if that helps. Go into settings and turn off the game music but keep the game sound on.
Don't worry about showing off techniques, just focus on winning and let the techniques naturally happen when they are needed. Think about techniques only in training mode, in matches think about your opponent's strategy and how to beat it. For example, Little Mac MUST approach, so your green fireballs will mess up his plans, he can't counter them. Dictate the match to be all about him having to avoid getting hit by a fireball, and when he gets past them smack him/throw him, make him have to react to you. Against Samus, her missiles are better than your fireballs so get close and don't give her a chance to shoot you. Ruin their plans with your plans.
Finally, I would suggest just picking ONE character and playing with them until you start winning often. This will help because you will always know what to expect from your character, like how high they jump, how fast they fall, how fast an attack happens. If you switch characters every match then you won't know as much about your character, and, as it says in "The Art Of War": you must know YOURSELF as well as your enemy.

Fellow metal fan, thank you! Nightwish goes surprisingly well with Super Smash Brothers. I've decided to run with Kirby; his copy ability alone makes him more versatile, which helps me with the whole "mind-games" part.

 

[Beard Hawk]

Fellow metal fan, thank you! Nightwish goes surprisingly well with Super Smash Brothers. I've decided to run with Kirby; his copy ability alone makes him more versatile, which helps me with the whole "mind-games" part.

I'll listen to Nightwish next time I play then! A friend of mine is a huge Nightwish fan! I was really impressed with your Kirby against that Pit.
The most frustrating feeling in the world: getting beaten by your own moves, especially if it's Falcon Punch...

 

[SmashChu]

I hope that's the case. Also Zelda is a huge problem for me; the teleport in particular is so quick, even when I add an outline with the touchscreen, it gets me every time. It really shouldn't be able to KO in my opinion. ;( Her Neutral/Side-Bs also get me a lot due to their deceptively huge range, and that by the time I can close in on her, she just knocks me away again to repeat the process. In my personal opinion, she can be overpowered in group or team games.

Ike is a similar problem. The range of all his attacks is huge; no matter how many times he does an up-smash, I never see it coming. He's been a problem for me since the days of Brawl, and also is the bane of one of my friends, who is a competitive player.

I don't know specific match ups, so here is some general advice.
Zelda-If you see her trying to use her Up B to attack you, just shield. Even if she misses, at least you're safe. You could also try and time a side step dodge or just roll back. Her Side B has always had a larger hit box. You'll just have to be ready for it, but shielding helps. If you want to get real tricky, you could try a forward roll. It will let you dodge it and get in on her. From what you've told me, you seem to play close range characters so this would help.

Ike - Your best bet is to never go straight down at Ike. He'll use the Up Smash. Remember how I said use your up Smash when Zelda was falling towards you. Same thing. Your best bet it to either use projectiles, or try and dodge Ike's attacks and counter attack. The latter works wonders if he's spamming Smashes. Just keep in mind he'll use his Side B to close the gap (you can block this) or B as he's falling to hit you (best bet, either side step dodge or avoid it altogether).

EDIT: A bit more detail. When you see me doing things like fast-falling or combos, I have no idea I'm pulling those off. I just press buttons and hope for the best. I cannot think straight in games because I'm terrified of losing - my low self esteem means I have a very perfectionist nature - so any plans I had go out the window. And when I take a break and read an online guide, I get utterly confused at the complexity of it all. What's a hitbox and how did they figure it out? I can't remember all the steps in DGrab, FAir, BAir, Fast Fall, SSmash (etc). What's a cancel, and why can't I do it in practice mode? Things like that tell me that I lack even the most basic fundamentals of the game. If SSB4 is the most basic Smash game, I wouldn't stand a ghost of a chance at the prequels.

Btw, win rate in the last 30 game. 2/30. Oh dear. I played Team battles where I lost to the same Zelda/Wario team 6 times in a row. They kept using the same tricks and I kept falling for them. Are video games really the best hobby for someone so dumb?

Thing is, you're not dumb. You understand the concepts. You just need more time and exposure to the game. You're flaws are things like reacting. This is why I suggest For Fun since you can learn some of the tricks and enjoy the game. Plus, For Fun doesn't save your records, so you can play as you want. Heck, if you win a match, save the replay for bragging rights. No one has to know you lost 50 times before. Build your confidence. What you have is similar to ladder anxiety in Starcraft. You don't want to play because you're rank may go down. It may be good to get away from the win/lose records.

Also, I'll tell you that most of my knowledge of the game comes from playing it. I haven't really looked up guides and what not. What the people on Reddit, and to some degree, here, will teach you is to play in a tournament setting, and many of them may have bad habits like being overly aggressive and getting punished or not dealing with defensive moves (notice all the complaining about rolls?). Ignore a lot of the guides and just play. Learn what's in the "How to Play" video and learn how to use it. Use For Fun to build your confidence or learn a few things.

 

[Deadlybroth]

I used to have a similar problem for a while. I used to look all over for advanced techs, and try to fill myself up with them, thinking that knowing more techs = becoming a better player. But during matches, I was doing the same thing and thinking too much. Thinking about what options are the best at any moment, which moves to use, etc. But since I'm human, I wasn't (and I'm still not) able to come to a conclusion before the opponent recovers.
I'm not sure if this specifically can apply to your position/style of playing, but what I did is that I just slowed everything down. Instead of focusing on so many things at once, I just tried to learn the most basic things that were easy to implement into my game, easy to learn, and are useful in the most situations. For example, shield grabbing. It's easy to pull off, and there's many situations where it's useful. I don't exactly have the best reaction time, so I worked on committing it to muscle memory. After I learned that, I continued and took it slowly, step by step. Now, instead of thinking too much and wasting time, I know all of my followups, all of my options, etc. on reaction.

 

[Eifie]

Okay, STOP. Take a good, long look at the best players here. The ones who participate in tournaments and make a profit.
Did they just start randomly and become good just like that? No. No, no, no!
The best players have been playing from the first smash games. They started somewhere. They started MUCH worse then you. They didn't even know how to play the game. And maybe they wanted to be good from the start. They could've said, "I'm going to be the best player the world has ever known." And those few, very few people, who we call smash's best players. But. They dont just battle randomly. They dedicate themselves. I could see them pouring in 13+ hours into their game every night. Every night.

Because thats not what it is. Your perspective of this game is very off. Its not talent, for sure. Its not skill.
Its dedication. And it PRACTICE.

Think of what i just said. 13+ hours? But thats the only way they could have. They played, and played, and played- and then a new game came out, they kept playing playing PLAYING.
When the game got seriously competitive, they were probably in the same boat as you.
But they kept going. Kept trying. Kept PRACTICING. They didnt just say -
"Oh, ill never improve, so ill just throw my game away."

Now it doesn't mean your screwed cause you haven't played any old games. And your not losing because your bad. Your losing because there are people out there who were serious meelee champions, dominated brawl, or even played the first game ever made. And for sure, it doesnt mean you cant get there. Just keep battling. Battle for a long, long time. And dont force yourself to be the best, just battle until your satisfied with how you play.

You have to learn to love smash and even the frustration that comes from losing.
Cause every single loss makes you better.

 

[Daxter]

Alrighty, now I have the Wii U edition! Donkey Kong and Luigi seem to work well for me in combat, although their recoveries are limited so I'll just have to learn to work around that. Donkey Kong is great for handling those rollers; his Down-B is deceptively long range! Hopefully playing "With Friends" mode won't brick my console. ;p

On a side note, is defensive the only way to play Smash? It seems to me if I make the first move I always lose out. As far as I know this is the case with many fighting games - I remember playing Marvel vs Capcom 3 and Street Fighter 4 casually and similar things happening - but it's a bit depressing if Smash is like that too.

 

[Daxter]

Here's another video. I've only won against 1 Little Mac to date in 1 vs 1 games. The usual "grab them, throw them off and kick them" trick never works for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoLuMoycj0U

 

[hsuperill]

Here's another video. I've only won against 1 Little Mac to date in 1 vs 1 games. The usual "grab them, throw them off and kick them" trick never works for me.

Learn to short hop and fast fall. I notice you're trying to do these full jump aerial attacks in front of the Little Mac which makes you super predictable. And definitely watch your spacing when you're rolling. I noticed you rolled into his F-Tilts a couple times. Little Mac is a hard character to face head on so try to play more defensively.

Everything comes with time, so if Little Mac is giving you trouble, just keep playing him and treat it like a learning experience. You'll start to pick things up little by little and before you know it you'll be beating more players and everything will come naturally.

 

[ZigZagGamer]

Trust me i'm the same in some ways, stuff at about 38% wins (lost alot jumping in too early) but i'm getting to grips with things now but I end up playing with people and end up just winning slightly more positive than the other player or 50/50 which doesn't help my Win rate :'( but none the less it's not the worst, however I still run into people who slap me silly and i'm still learning yes, I feel like I should be able to at least reach a 50% win rate but silly mistakes and sometimes a bit of unluckiness keeps just below 40% though.

It's a tough grind but win rate isn't everything if you feel an improvement keep with it if you and I can climb out of that 30-40% zone and hit at least 50% we'll notice our improvement then hopefully further on up.

 

[Daxter]

Sorry guys, but I think I'm done. I'm actually getting worse, not better. Here's proof. I STILL can't beat a simple Little Mac player. I still lose to all the Zeldas, Ikes and ZSS.' I've been reading the tips, watching the videos, I even managed to beat classic 9.0, but I still keep losing. Everyone's simply getting better at a much faster rate than me, so even if I am improving, I still lose in an embarrassingly bad manner.

Thanks for your help so far, but feel free to lock the thread. I'm afraid I give up. Here's one last video to show how bad I am after hundreds of hours. (Bad quality, recorded in a hurry XD)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsIalPvZ0VM&list=UULbOwpGkqT1uCELufyRBLvw

 

[Psyruby]

Hrm... I really would need to talk to you over skype or something to properly explain how to get better. Cause I understand the problems you are going through based on those videos.

 

[Beard Hawk]

You were unlucky in that Little Mac fight. My win percentage isn't all that great, but I have fun, so I keep playing. If you aren't having fun then I understand, there are more things in life than Smash, and I'm sure you'll find other things that you enjoy.

If you keep playing then we'll help you out if we can.
I only play as one character, I stick with them through all the hard times. This way, I know my character 100%. Trying to win with 5 different characters is very difficult. Who do you have the most fun playing as? Which character is your favourite? Are any of them from your favourite game? I use Samus because I like Metroid and Super Metroid, that's the only reason. I use the purple outfit and just feel like I'm playing Super Metroid. I'm a flying metal ball of death. Who makes you feel awesome? Who makes you laugh?

 

[hsuperill]

Sorry guys, but I think I'm done. I'm actually getting worse, not better. Here's proof. I STILL can't beat a simple Little Mac player. I still lose to all the Zeldas, Ikes and ZSS.' I've been reading the tips, watching the videos, I even managed to beat classic 9.0, but I still keep losing. Everyone's simply getting better at a much faster rate than me, so even if I am improving, I still lose in an embarrassingly bad manner.

Thanks for your help so far, but feel free to lock the thread. I'm afraid I give up. Here's one last video to show how bad I am after hundreds of hours. (Bad quality, recorded in a hurry XD)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsIalPvZ0VM&list=UULbOwpGkqT1uCELufyRBLvw

You still have a lot to learn, but you're not going to learn anything by just giving up. If your enjoyment of the game is based on your win rate percentage, then yeah, maybe this game isn't for you and you might want to look into more single player options. Now that Smash has online capabilities, the reality of it is is you're going face a lot of players that will beat you badly at all levels. I'd like to think I'm a decent player, but I still come across a lot of people that absolutely kill me. Reading tips and watching videos are great ways to get better, but nothing will make you better than just putting in the time.

That being said, I do see improvement from this video and your previous videos. I see you reading your opponent better, using short hop Fair, air dodging and playing more defensively. Luigi can be a tough character to play and Little Mac can be a very tough match up for anyone (no matter how "simple" you think he is). Little Mac is a rough match up because he thrives on Normal/For Glory maps and at lower levels, people typically flock to him because he's easy to pick up and packs a lot of speed and power. Your play style is still predictable (and that's okay) and combined with Luigi's floaty nature, it makes it easy to punish, ESPECIALLY for Little Mac who excels and punishing players for even minor slips. I would say keep working on your air game, tighten up your short hops and fast falls (this will speed up the way you play), and practice your ledge game. And of course, keep LOSING. There's no better way to get better than being backed into a corner by better players.

 

[FGC-Oni]

Whatever it takes to win, whatever it takes. As a Link main I play pretty passively zoning and quite literally spamming projectiles in 4 player smash online. Then when percents are high enough I go in for the kill.

 

[LIVERPOOP]

seems like you're being way too hard on yourself. it should be fun to learn this game and get better at it, not frustrating and upsetting. perhaps you're just over thinking and perhaps giving your opponents too much respect. you should be thinking about your own gameplan and gamestyle and working on making that something to be feared, not hearing about all these other styles and being overwhelmed.

smash is not a defensive game, as you asked. i mean, it can be if you want, like in football, you set up your team to defend or attack depending on your mentality. this is tied in with giving your opponent too much respect. instead of worrying about trying the first move and it failing, think about what you're going to do if your first move does fail. so you have a back up you're happy with. this is what i just learned with marth, i have several ways of opening a game. instead of focusing on what could go wrong, and then being lost when it happens, focus on what you want to happen, have options, so you always do something you're happy with, that you control.

lately I've been thinking that a part of smash is just image! almost like pretending you're better than you are. I mean, your opponent doesn't know who you are. when you get on the front foot and dominate early, you can scare people. as you have probably been scared yourself. if you manage to kill someone without taking a hit, they'll be ****ting themselves and automatically think you're absolutely pro, even if it's fluky. if you start a game all timid and defensive a good player will spot you a mile away and you'll be cooked. even just start out by imitating what you see good smashers do, that's what I did! I'd run to the edge when I killed them and have my character on the edge in that balancing animation, like I know exactly what I'm doing and I ran to that exact spot on purpose. or you spend a few seconds rolling and shielding around like you're practicing your pro techniques. these are little things and they don't help your overall game too much but I sense you're a bit intimidated by your opponents, so you should remember that there is no reason they can't be sitting there fearing you.

 

[Wyverian]

If your heart is set on it, then keep at it. You often get better from pure hard work and determination. And yeah, FG Win/loss ratio does not mean too much, as their are no ranking match's, and the game doesint even keep track of FG wins per character. So you can get hundreds of losses just for trying out new characters. Pay more attention to recent win streaks.

 

[Xcano]

To be frank, Luigi isn't a very good character (at least for me). Try picking up a much faster character that runs around at the speed of sound isn't as floaty and attacks quicker.

 

[Beard Hawk]

Don't worry about 'good' characters unless you are planning to take on the world. Just have fun and try to enjoy yourself. Sometimes I pick Luigi and just crouch-run about the place and try to avoid the enemy. I once won a game this way in For Fun mode. I ran away at Nintendogs stage and in sudden death the stage landed on my enemy! That was the happiest moment I've ever had in Smash Bros on my own. Luigi is fun, so's Donkey Kong. Try For Fun mode instead of For Glory.

 

[FGC-Oni]

I'm reading this thread and am feeling the same way right about now. I play Link, and am absolutely getting crushed right now. I can't even think straight.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Hey, I'm a really sucky player, so if you want, we could have few matches and you could toss me around the stage for a while if that makes you feel any better I live in Ireland, so our connection would hopefully be quite good!

I agree with what a lot of people are saying here. Take a look at all the top smash players right now : ZeRo, Hungrybox, Nairo, Nakat etc. They didn't boot up the game for the first time and became instantaneous legends. Just practice a lot every day and you'll get there. Head to tournaments when you become a little more confident. Maybe you'll get stomped in front of everyone, but hey, at least you'll get some advice for your troubles. Or maybe you'll just show up to watch the games, or even show up early to play a few friendlies.

I'm really trying to improve myself, so it would be great if I could help you out in the process. I mean, if you give up, you will never get better. Never, never, never. Message me anytime if you'd like to practice!

 

[Daxter]

Here's an update because NOW I give up.

I (officially, I guarantee it) have the highest loss streak in Smash 4. 80 losses in a row. No main - Mario, DK Pit, Wario and Pac Man have all crumbled - nothing learned, worse anxiety in battle than ever. If there was ever a hopeless case for this game, it's me. Playing "For Fun" mode feels like I've hit the bottom of the barrel, because I can't even win that against the average Ike player.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Here's an update because NOW I give up.

I (officially, I guarantee it) have the highest loss streak in Smash 4. 80 losses in a row. No main - Mario, DK Pit, Wario and Pac Man have all crumbled - nothing learned, worse anxiety in battle than ever. If there was ever a hopeless case for this game, it's me. Playing "For Fun" mode feels like I've hit the bottom of the barrel, because I can't even win that against the average Ike player.

It sucks to see you so down about this
Are you only playing For Glory? I greatly advise you to instead go to Smashladder or ask around here for practice instead. I see you tried to pick up Pit; if you enjoyed his playstyle but couldn't get it right, I'd love to help you out! I actually quite dislike going online and fighting randoms. I think you'd be better off conversing with someone before and after a fight, during even.

 

[ChikoLad]

Just chipping into say I wouldn't mind lending you a hand, @ Daxter . If you want another person to play with, feel free to add me (3DS FC and NNID are to the left of this post, assuming you're viewing from a computer), and we might organise a game sometime. I live in Ireland, so the connection should hold up. I've been able to play with my friends in the USA in both versions just fine, so UK should be no problem.

 

[Beard Hawk]

Here's an update because NOW I give up.

I (officially, I guarantee it) have the highest loss streak in Smash 4. 80 losses in a row. No main - Mario, DK Pit, Wario and Pac Man have all crumbled - nothing learned, worse anxiety in battle than ever. If there was ever a hopeless case for this game, it's me. Playing "For Fun" mode feels like I've hit the bottom of the barrel, because I can't even win that against the average Ike player.

I'm sorry to hear that. Do you know your kill moves with any particular character? You can find out which moves are easiest to kill with in training mode. Set health at 80 and see if any moves can kill, if not, set health to 90 and try them all again, then 100 and so on. Keep in mind that small enemies will die at lower percentages than heavy characters. Focus on one character too. So for example, if your forward smash attack kills at lower numbers than other moves, when you get your enemy to 90% (or whatever the percent they die at is) you know that one forward smash will kill them. With Donkey Kong (quite a hard character to play as, in my opinion) his wind-up punch will probably be the move. If you learn something in a fight, but lose anyway, you will improve. Don't worry about losing. No one else will ever see your win/lose record. The only thing I really stress is stick to one character through ALL bad times. When you can't beat a particular character, don't switch. It's better to stick to one "bad" character than to change between the 5 "best" characters.

I can only play as Samus. I have a worse record than you when I'm not my character, I never ever win as anybody else. It's just experience, familiarity and practice. Changing characters every match throws away all the experience, familiarity and practice you've built up.

 

[Deleted member 278362]

[ removed ]

 

[A-money2121]

So... I took the advice of the last big post I made to heart. Trained with some FC buddies, learned some tricks for a few characters, watched other people playing and tried to control my anxiety. And how do you think that's fared for me?

I just keep losing, and losing, and losing. Win rate has yet to climb over 30-40%

It feels like no mater how much I learn everyone is always a hundred steps ahead of me. I've had matches where people defeat me and I barely can hit them once. I mix things up, I try and keep advanced tactics in their mind, but someone who has picked Little Mac and only uses dash attacks could easily defeat me. I block with as good timing as I can, I grab when needed, and I don't spam rolls, but they still see all my defenses coming and teabag me for good measure. One player today taunted every time he attacked me, knowing I couldn't attack him back. He was Ike, just to point out - someone I've hardly ever been able to defeat since Brawl was first released. He/She then switched to the same character I was playing as before - dominated me, and to be honest, bought a tear to my eyes.

Mario and Sonic are the two I I've looked at most. Mario because he's the only one I could clear Classic 9.0 with (it took 40 tries) and Sonic because I just like his character. I tried others, but they're just not working out, like Pac Man (too predictable, poor grab), Donkey Kong (never hits, easily juggled), Kirby (poor approaches, too predictable) and Wii Fit Trainer (boring, dodgy hitboxes). I might win once in a while, but only if I get so lucky that someone accidentally tosses themselves off course. It also feels like it takes a tonne of wins to raise my win rate, but a single loss just dunks my win rate further into the pit of poorness.

What's the best way for me to share my gameplay so people can see exactly where I fail (or fail most at)? Or is it time to just pack up and uninstall the game, since I haven't improved?

https://www.youtube.com/user/ChileZeRo/videos

You got to watch this guy. He is an EXPERT at this game, and aims to help fellow smashers like you. Thanks to the tricks I've learned from him, I have a win rate of 89% on Wii U (93% on 3DS. I just think the 3DS is the best controller in my opinion) Notice how he maneuvers around the stage, notice his shielding and dodging techniques. Just pay attention to EVERY SMALL DETAIL, and just practice, practice, practice. You will get better. Trust me.