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well rest has low accurcy so yeah plus protect **** it it sets up for falcon punch.
puff being uber isn't likly.
really pichu is more respectable than pikachu f-smash has the highest knockback of any f-smash in the game.
at 25% I know pichu destroys jigglypuff on any legal stage with side-B even DL64 so if pichu predicted a protect then side-B to death also if you don't protect vs pichu f-smash will **** you same for thunder.
pichu would be higher than pikachu for that reason. way better protect, and more than double that kill power.
I imagine it being more like
Uber= best character (or Mu2 amirite)
OU= top
BL= high
UU= mid
NU= low
NFE= bottom/pichu
Uber doesn't fit with melee anyway cause they're considered ban-worthy, and no character has been found to be so broken as metaknight is to brawl. Jiggs has won the last 2 major tournaments (APEX and Genesis) and is really good in a great players hands, but clearly not broken being used by anyone but the best. Fox has a really strong standing in the smaller tournament scene
I imagine it being more like
Uber= best character (or Mu2 amirite)
OU= top
BL= high
UU= mid
NU= low
NFE= bottom/pichu
Uber doesn't fit with melee anyway cause they're considered ban-worthy, and no character has been found to be so broken as metaknight is to brawl. Jiggs has won the last 2 major tournaments (APEX and Genesis) and is really good in a great players hands, but clearly not broken being used by anyone but the best. Fox has a really strong standing in the smaller tournament scene
It's based on usage, with Ubers being the only tier based on how good the characters are (and NFE, which are the not fully evolved pokemon, duh). OU/BL/UU/NU has nothing to do with how good the characters are, however, naturally, better characters would be higher on the list.
One of the top combo characters of this current metagame. The FalcOffensive build can use his Combo Starters to Nair or Dair into battle. This is then followed by another Combo Starter like Shine. Finally, finish with a powerful Shinebair. When the opponent is recovering, the best option is always to be flashy with this build...so run off the edge and
Do a Barrel Roll!
Shine Turnaround Bair to edgeguard. Feel free to try a Dthrow Reaction which could lead to another Combo Starter. The downside to this build is that it is more succeptible to offstage gimps.
If you thought Wobbuffet was loads of fun, then maybe this build is the right one for you. Although Falco has a high Attack stat with the ability to combo, some prefer to use a defensive wall approach to fighting other characters. This bird can use Laser Camp to stall out the opponent to force the opponent to consider playing riskier. Falco can use his second move to stop several non-grab approaches. With STAB and a base power of 90, his Shinebair is there as a powerful move to finish off those stocks. Choo Choo Train is a laughable, yet effective move that involves Fsmashing across the ground to catch an unsuspecting opponent who wrongly predicts you wouldn't be stupid enough to do a Fsmash two, three, maybe even four times.
Team Options
Falco can work well with Marth or Sheik especially well. The two teammates can gimp, tech chase, and chaingrab while Falco combos. Falco can save Marth and Sheik offstage with either Lasers or Shine when they can't reach the edge.
Fox is also a possible teammate consideration for Falco. This would be the most offensive approach which can overwhelm less experienced players who are used to a slower style of play. The main roadblock is that because both characters are fastfallers, neither can effectively hold stocks as someone like Peach might. They can both get gimped for this reason.
Another plausible team option for Falco is Ness. Although Ness is shamefully bad, Falco can heal Ness with lasers, doubling as a beatdown fighter and white mage. Aside from healing Ness, there are no advantages to this team. In fact, you might consider teaming with a Luvdisc.
Other Options
Falco can substitute Dsmash **** for Shine Turnaround Bair. The problem with Dsmash **** is that it isn't as flashy and doesn't require as much technical consistency. However, if this is a problem, consider adding Walljump Dair instead. It is especially effective when used on the last stock. Bonus points if you can pause and zoom in and out before the end of the match.
EVs
Placing the EVs in Defensive spots or Offensive spots really depends on what kind of Falco you want to use. If you want a more spacing oriented Falco, you might want to consider placing more EVs in Defense and Special Attack. If you want an unpredictable offensive train to give people the business with, consider putting EVs in Attack. While Speed EVs are useful, it should be noted that Falco can walk nearly as fast as he can run.
Opinion
While Fox can gimp with Shine and combo well, Falco has the ability to use his Shine to combo vertically better. Falco can also camp more effectively than Fox because his lasers have hitstun, whereas Fox's do not. The downside to Falco is that he is slower and can get gimped more easily due to his lack of recovery. Falco must rely on clever maneuvering to avoid getting killed at early percents.
Counters
Falco's greatest counter is Marth on Final Destination. When Falco's fighting Marth, he should play very carefully or be very technically consistent and be sure not to make any errors. If counterpicked here against a Marth who is good at getting grabs, instead of playing out the match, just forfeit the match and counterpick your favorite stage to save time.
Another counter that you might encounter is Fox, who can gimp at early percents. Although Falco can be gimped, because Fox is a fast faller, Falco can combo back in response. Lasers will be useful in this matchup.
The last plausible counter is Pikachu. Because Pikachu is nimble and agile, he can run around and duck under several lasers. He can gimp Falco, while Falco is at full HP
...because Electric is super effective against Flying
with Bthrow off edge, Ftilt, Tail Spike. Aside from the gimp, Falco's worst fear should be not knowing the matchup.
Note: If you fight any Yoshi's with Falco, losing is not an option.
The list may be supposed to be based on usage, but the one listed doesn't look like a usage based list to me. If its supposed to be based on that I think its pretty wrong except for OU maybe.
and holy crap OkamiBW could you have gone into a little more detail [/sarcasm]
wait you can make things not count if you don't remember them? pichu isn't countered by anyone LALALALLALALA no sheik LALALALLALALa no one else but for kirby on KJ64 LALALALALLALA
When I read this I was like: lolwhat? and then I read the full post. Good ****, I would but I don't have enough time ATM. I'll consider doing it during classes on Friday though. I didn't realize how good smogon's analysis would come over to Smash. I feel like things like Team Analysis and so could be generalized and still work out really well.
Anyone with an actual GOOD opinion / facts on this, please post what's wrong with the current list. Sheik is BL because of how many people second her while Marth isn't nearly as used. I feel like UU is fine as is, maybe a Ganon change but there's a bunch of GOOD ones so I'm kind of on the edge.
Anyone with an actual GOOD opinion / facts on this, please post what's wrong with the current list. Sheik is BL because of how many people second her while Marth isn't nearly as used. I feel like UU is fine as is, maybe a Ganon change but there's a bunch of GOOD ones so I'm kind of on the edge.
I'm pretty sure this is a stab at me for saying Marth and Sheik were too low, so instead of my good opinion let me give you the facts. There is a Character Rankings Thread in which tournament results are used to record the top 8 placements in each tournament submitted. This doesn't measure which character every person entered with but I think its even better than that because it gets rid of anyone bad and just uses the top tourney placers. (If most noobs entered with Roy or Link would that make them Uber?) Lets see who is used the most at the top level and make a list based off that.
Uber
Fox (259 top 8's)
OU
Falco (122)
Sheik (111)
Marth (109)
BL
Falcon (93)
UU
Peach (60)
Jiggs (53)
NU
Samus (27)
Ganon (27)
Doc (25)
IC (23)
Luigi (16)
NFE
everyone else
Oh would you look at that Sheik and Marth 3rd and 4th huh
and ya Jiggs is way down there because while Jiggs is good, shes hard to be really good with so shes not that well used
If you have any FACTS that say otherwise please enlighten me
This thread is about a pokemon style tier list which is based on how often they're used. Those characters you listed are obviously not used that often. Though I definitely love some low tier action. AXE, Taj, Wobbles, and Vectorman are all awesome players. This has nothing to do with that at all though so I really don't see what your point is, this isn't even a tier list.
I'll admit though I'm a little jealous lol. I think TN has the best nothing (Iori is a good Mewtwo though)
I forgot now why I made that post. I think I must have been thinking about us favoring unevolved stuff...like...Mew..two?
Perhaps I'll make another one of those build things. I'm thinking about doing one for Sheik and Pikachu, but Pikachu would have stuff like the Axe build which uses Captivate, Reversal, Tail Whip Spike, and BattleAxe.
Haven't read everything but Marth is far from overused. Nobody uses him. I've been basing the characters purely off the words "___ used". Fox should probably be uber because so many people use him. In that case, Jiggs would be with Peach.
Falcon is definitely more used than Marth / Sheik / Peach. Will post tomorrow.
