Tier list. And why I want them.

[Qikz]

All tier lists do is put people off playing and experimenting with certain characters. Just think if it wasn't for someone llike Amsa and Armada in Melee who ignored the tier list and got good with the character they wanted to then Peach and Yoshi wouldn't have many if any players at all.

Let the game develop with the idea that everyone is somewhat equal then work it out from there later down the line. For the benefit of our community we want people to make as many characters viable as possible. I know people who won't watch Melee due to the relatively limited number of characters you see.

 

[Yodude57]

All tier lists do is put people off playing and experimenting with certain characters. Just think if it wasn't for someone llike Amsa and Armada in Melee who ignored the tier list and got good with the character they wanted to then Peach and Yoshi wouldn't have many if any players at all.

Let the game develop with the idea that everyone is somewhat equal then work it out from there later down the line. For the benefit of our community we want people to make as many characters viable as possible. I know people who won't watch Melee due to the relatively limited number of characters you see.

This is the problem I always had with watching melee! At first it was fun to watch matches but I for one get sick of seeing Falco in every **** game and I wish people would use more than a few select characters in melee. I hope with sm4sh's more balanced roster we will see more variety in characters being played in tournaments.

 

[QuickRat]

All tier lists do is put people off playing and experimenting with certain characters. Just think if it wasn't for someone llike Amsa and Armada in Melee who ignored the tier list and got good with the character they wanted to then Peach and Yoshi wouldn't have many if any players at all.

Let the game develop with the idea that everyone is somewhat equal then work it out from there later down the line. For the benefit of our community we want people to make as many characters viable as possible. I know people who won't watch Melee due to the relatively limited number of characters you see.

While I agree your statements, I have to say I think was always in top tiers, even before Armada appeared in the scene.

 

[StarForce]

I don't believe in tiers. Personally my style is with whoever I like regardless of positioning. Take my very picture for example. I don't care Zelda's positioning in any of the current tiers nor in the future ones for this new title. Nevertheless a tier is needed to accurately tell the position of characters based on their use/performance. Making one based on Japan only is inconsistent. that's roughly like 17-23% of the world only. A study must use all it's research to hold up credential. A tier list now lacks credential to to a large chunk of research missing. In short, it's too premature with the little data we have.

 

[Venks]

I haven't played every character nor seen every character played. But right now based off of playing the game with other top players in Melbourne who have Japanese 3DS consoles I'd say the five who perform the best are:

5) Sheik
4) Pit
3) Bowser
2) Villager
1) Little Mac

Obviously this is incredibly biased as the only reason Little Mac is winning the most matches is because that's who I'm playing and I understand the game a lot better than other players. As more people learn to take advantage of how unsafe landing on the ground is in this game I think we'll start seeing a lot of interesting plays. And of course not everyone understands match ups yet. For example few people know that Little Mac can combo into KO Punch or that KO Punch is unblockable. Don't even get me started on how too few players respect his super armor and how it gives him a huge advantage against fighters approaching from the air.

 

[Anuran]

I made an personal tier list that may seem preposterous and some of you definitely won't agree with my opinions.

NOTE: This is just Early speculation. My tier list is based off of personal opinions of what I’ve seen from youtube videos and streams. I have not played the full game (I’ve only played the demo) so keep that in mind. Again these are my EARLY OPINIONS on the tier list and should be taken with a grain of salt. also the characters are not in order.

~High Tier~
Bowser, Sheik, Duck Hunt Dog, Zero Suit Samus, Little Mac, Greninja, King Dedede, Jigglypuff, Pac-Man, Lucario, Captain Falcon, Meta Knight,

~Mid Tier~
Villager, Mario, Toon link, Dr. Mario, Luigi, Wii Fit Trainer, Lucina, Bowser Jr, Rosalina, Link, Diddy Kong, Ness, Robin, Palutena, Marth, Charizard, Fox, R.O.B., Sonic, Robin, Wario

~Low Tier~
Ganondorf, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Shulk, Pit, Ike, Falco, Olimar, Mr game & Watch, Mega Man, Pikachu, Samus, Kirby, Yoshi, Dark Pit

I agree with a lot of this though I would make these changes (grated I havnt seen a few in action)
Falcon -> mid
R.O.B -> high
rosalina ->high
ness-> high (might just be awestin being a boss as he is the only ness I have seen)
Palutena (that up smash)
Shulk -> mid

 

[Svenshinhan]

I've honestly never cared about tier lists that much.

I intend to main Lucario in Smash 4, backed up by Yoshi and Charizard (would have been Wolf if he hadn't got cut). Yoshi has always been my favorite Nintendo character. And Charizard and Lucario are two of my favorite Pokémon. I'm emotionally invested in these characters. They're the ones I like for a variety of reasons. I intend to take my play with these guys as far as I reasonably can.

If I find that I'm getting beat by higher-tier characters consistently, I'll just try to learn from some of the best players in the world and get better. If I simply cannot win purely because of bad match-ups and/or tiers, then so be it. But I'm not going down without a fight.

 

[A Lucky Person]

I'm realllllllly hoping for the tier list to be more even this time around. The tier list in Brawl got so screwed up due to MK, Diddy, and any infinites/chaingrabs/grab-releases that could be done. However, these things seem to be mostly remedied (except for lol ZSS x Robin), so I expect the game to be a little more balanced.

It's certainly a stretch to ask for every character to be tournament viable, but I would like for more than a handful to be used at tournaments a couple years down the road.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Even early impressions based on who's doing well in online matches are premature because 1. Some characters will benefit more than others from the improved precision offered by Wii U controls, 2. Custom movesets will change some matchups and characters completely and they have barely been touched so far, and 3. Not enough people have the game, so a number of characters have yet to really be explored in any depth. With around 50 characters and custom movesets available it'll take a few months just to get a grasp on what characters can and can't do, and even longer to figure out how they stack up against each other, both individually and collectively.

 

[Shog]

People really do like lists, huh? Well, I know I like them.

But I have to agree, the Tier List causes more harm than help, we all know how casual players call others cheater or similar for using the "best" characters and worst, there are "proud" player for using there low tier character because they like them, ignoring that everyone who plays has a favourite character.

You want an example? Look at the Meta-Knight Character Discussion Forum: There are threats like "Is he still broken?" etc. And that must suck for people who really wanted Meta-Knight to return.

For competitive player, what exactly does a tier list tell you? It only shows which character wins most of the time. Much more intersting(imho) are the matchups, though. I mean why bother with the placement of the characters mire than matchup statistics?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The thing is that most of us know full well we are not competent to post a tier list. From my rough observations the strongest characters look like Mario, Wario, Sheik, Palutena, Robin, Ness, Jigglypuff, and Duck Hunt. Do I seriously believe as someone who hasn't even played the full game that I'm competent at all to say with any surety that these characters are truly the best or even that I have a decent idea of how good every character is? No, I don't. Do I believe that those who have the Japanese version and are playing in a limited metagame in which most prospective challengers can't play against them are really much better off than I am? No I don't. No one is competent to post a tier list now, and while there's some fun in taking a stab at it, we all know that we just aren't in a position to make any claims of quality.

 

[Blue Warrior]

If this was any other Smash game, I'd understand people wanting to formulate a tier list this early, but really... What difference does it make to you whether ZSS or DHD are considered top or not, or Dorf is considered bottom? This isn't like Brawl where you need to avoid 85% of the cast if you want to be anywhere close to viable. With SSB4's roster balance, a tier list right now would just be the equivalent of a pissing contest.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Tier lists are really less of a ranking of characters based on how good they are, and more of a ranking based on a character's tournament results and match ups.

Now they're not mutually exclusive, but with the latter, we have actual data to actually determine a character's ranking, making it that much more accurate. Right now, we don't have that data.

 

[j3lly]

Tier lists are really less of a ranking of characters based on how good they are, and more of a ranking based on a character's tournament results and match ups.

Now they're not mutually exclusive, but with the latter, we have actual data to actually determine a character's ranking, making it that much more accurate. Right now, we don't have that data.

This x100.

That's why I always lol at people who "don't believe/like Tier lists." They're going to be there regardless whether you like it or not. If your favorite character is a low-end character doesn't necessarily mean your character is trash, just that they don't fare well in a competitive setting.

 

[san.]

If it was based mostly on character's tournament results, Sonic would've been high+ tier when he placed both 5th and 6th at an MLG tournament. I bet those players already know how they fair against other characters, and it may or may not be accurate with what the current tier list is like, so it's overall useless for them. It's a compromise of many differing opinions.

 

[YAYCONFORMITY]

Tiers definitely exist, but I'm not sure that tier lists are valuable to the community at large. Beyond being a requirement to make low tier tournaments (which maybe we shouldn't do anyway) tier lists become sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. Once characters are labeled "good" they are more likely to be played, and have a meta game that advances more quickly. I guess it's a part of the fighting game community that we can't change but I'm not sure what the benefit of tier lists is.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Early tier lists serve no purpose, all they end up doing is affecting people to not explore every character but instead only go with the ones that are "good", when in reality the good characters on an early tier list could easily be the worst. I remember early discussion of Brawl talking about Bowser being a Meta Knight counter, that's how bad early impressions can be. Tier lists will affect people's way of thinking about the character balance, so it's just not good making one this early, I'd suggest we only see one in over half a year from now.

Plus, tier lists do also incorporate feedback from the community, something 90% of the community can't do right now since it hasn't been released worldwide yet.

 

[Zinth]

The game hasn't even been released yet in the U.S however, I think it would be healthy for the game and the community to make a tier list for the current meta.

The thing is that there is pretty much no meta at this point. In other words, there is pretty much nothing to base a tier list off of.

People are under some sort of impression that when someone puts up a tier list, that it is set in stone by some god of lightning, and that it cannot be changed.

Only people who don't actually understand what a tier list is. The fact that you made this thread makes me think you might not really understand what a tier list is, either.

Why not make a tier list, is it because it's too early? If so, why don't we just update the tier list when changes are needed? If DHD is god tier now and goes to C tier later, why can't we just make that change when the time comes? Just because a character is lower in tier than another does not mean that the character at hand is worse.

Many characters haven't even been used in a notable competitive setting by players who have invested meaningful amounts of time into them yet; the tier list would have to feature a large "IDK lol" tier consisting of... the entire cast. It would be worse than inaccurate: it would be meaningless.

The player is what makes the character, however, it would be nice to know where certain characters movesets stand next to others. That is why I want a tier list. That is why I can't understand why people say it's too early.

Why do you think a tier list would give you that information, especially when characters have only barely been explored? Also, who exactly would make this tier list? There haven't even been any national -- let alone, regional -- tournaments at this point. Even if we made a list scoring characters by their tournament performance up until now, the top characters per region are basically completely inconsistent right now, and many characters would have no data. The sample size would also be abysmally small. It is too early because there is not enough data and knowledge to make a tier list yet.

The only way you can learn about "where certain characters movesets stand next to others" at this point is by just learning about the characters and their movesets, thinking critically and creatively, and forming your own opinions. You should also know that there's more to characters than just their movesets.

 

[Qikz]

This x100.

That's why I always lol at people who "don't believe/like Tier lists." They're going to be there regardless whether you like it or not. If your favorite character is a low-end character doesn't necessarily mean your character is trash, just that they don't fare well in a competitive setting.

It's fine to view it like that, but don't call it a tier list.

If you're saying tier lists should be based off of tournaments in a fighting game I think there's problems with that. For example using Ken at his height of power and put him in a hypothetical situation. Say for example he was the only person who everyone played against it would mean Marth would be in Metaknight style broken tier as he'd never lose, yet every other character would be low tier as they never won.

Tier list should be ranking of strength of the characters, but due to a huge range of player skill levels, there is no ability to accurately represent that. The best players winning with their mains will make those characters top tier, but it might be the case that outside of them nobody can play those characters that well so it invalidates the entire purpose of the list, as although only one person is winning with them, it's still enough to say that the character isn't low tier.

 

[j3lly]

It's fine to view it like that, but don't call it a tier list.

If you're saying tier lists should be based off of tournaments in a fighting game I think there's problems with that. For example using Ken at his height of power and put him in a hypothetical situation. Say for example he was the only person who everyone played against it would mean Marth would be in Metaknight style broken tier as he'd never lose, yet every other character would be low tier as they never won.

Tier list should be ranking of strength of the characters, but due to a huge range of player skill levels, there is no ability to accurately represent that. The best players winning with their mains will make those characters top tier, but it might be the case that outside of them nobody can play those characters that well so it invalidates the entire purpose of the list, as although only one person is winning with them, it's still enough to say that the character isn't low tier.

The problem here is that you don't understand:

A.) How Tier-lists work
B.) What a Tier list even is

Among the Super Smash Bros. community, it is common for distinguished groups (such as the Smashboards Back Room) to create Tier lists, rankings of a character's potential in tournaments.

Several prominent members of the community have performed exhaustive tests on the objective qualities of certain attacks, such as speed, hitbox, duration, priority, etc. Some characters are comparatively more favorably endowed with these qualities than others, providing some degree of evidence to base tier listings. Tournament results are used to reinforce the placements of certain characters on the tier list; for example the winners of Melee tournaments most commonly use Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Marth, and the winners of Brawl tournaments most commonly use Meta Knight, Ice Climbers, Olimar and Diddy Kong.

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Tier_list

 

[K-45]

I play who's fits my play style. tiers kind of kill the meta game in 2 many ways.Not to mention they can always update the game so megaman is bottom tier for now but not forever.