Thread Cluttery

[Harliart]

Okay, we all know that there is a "stage discussion" area pinned up at the top of the forum.. It's a bloody bad idea though dont you think? having one thread to round up ALL the stages?

I mean a thread post called "castle siege" was created to discuss the stage "castle siege" by some random guy i dunno. It was then pointed out to the creator that there was a sticky post already discussing that stage and then the topic was closed.

I mean thats just really bad organisation... what if someone namingly me... wants to come to this board and contribute to that particular stages discussion lets say in a couple of weeks.. when there are 2 or more stages worth of discussion STACKED ON TOP of that... and i have to shuffle through thousands of pages worth of discussion looking for what people said about the stage i want to talk about!?

this forum site would be alot more clean if there were posts for every particular section... i KNOW that means there would be ALOT of forum threads.. but bloody oath.. thats why you guys have made an in-website search engine.. right guys?

Does anyone else agree.. or is there something I'm missing?

Un-organised

 

[GuardianSphinx]

I agree, however,[prejudice]the forum mods usually find it difficult to accept they are wrong or have made a mistake[/prejudice]. I too will look foward to individual stage discusion threads simply because it's impossible to have a discusion about one particular stage with one thread as everyone posts talking about different stages at the same time - doesn't work imo.

 

[the grim lizard]

No, you're wrong. Do you realize how many threads there are? It really bogs down the server, which is why we have so many problems recently. If you want to comment on a past stage in the stage discussion, do it. I've done it. People will go back and discuss whatever it was. Don't say we need to have 50,000 threads for every minute topic just because you're too lazy to post in an existing thread instead of making a new one.

There is so much irony in your post, too. The forum would be a lot more CLEAN if there weren't 10 topics for every minor thing. I mean heck, on Wednesday, the Ike topic was on the FRONT page, and people STILL created about 5 new topics about it.

 

[Fawriel]

It's very impractical to have several threads about one subject. And trust me, several threads will be made if it isn't forbidden to post them.
Only subjects that really have a lot to discuss deserve own topics.
Otherwise, you'll have some discussion here, some there, points will be forever repeated and no one is any wiser in the end because good points made in one thread are missed by those reading the others.

If anything, we need better stickies that link to important threads, and the creators of threads like the Stage Discussion could post links in the main post to show at what page which discussion started, or simply summarize what has been argued.

 

[GuardianSphinx]

No, you're wrong. I have over 2000 posts therefor whatever I say is correct cuz i iz mega hax0r5 1337 n19z.

ok, you're a tool. You know why the server is so bogged down? Because people like you have no lives at all and so accumilate so many POSTS I mean, are you just going to keep posting and posting until all the worlds' Waste sites are full?

Seriously man... jethuth...

 

[smidge]

i wonder what the mods will make of this . . .will they simply close the thread without replying or will they have a say ? ? ? ? ooooh the tension

 

[the grim lizard]

ok, you're a tool. You know why the server is so bogged down? Because people like you have no lives at all and so accumilate so many POSTS I mean, are you just going to keep posting and posting until all the worlds' Waste sites are full?

Seriously man... jethuth...

If you haven't noticed, smart guy...I've been around since 2004. It's perfectly reasonable to have over 2000 posts when you've been a part of a forum for 3 years. It isn't as if I just joined last month or something. *rolls eyes*

Get over yourself. And try using your brain for once.

 

[WoapGang]

If you haven't noticed, smart guy...I've been around since 2004. It's perfectly reasonable to have over 2000 posts when you've been a part of a forum for 3 years. It isn't as if I just joined last month or something. *rolls eyes*

Get over yourself. And try using your brain for once.

wow 3 years? long tyme

 

[Scav]

Here's our thinking:

Calling it "unorganized" is incorrect. What could be more organized than having all of the Stage-related posts in one thread? It's not an ideal solution by any means -- it's a bit like putting all of your plugs, chords and controllers into one box. Your room is clean, but the cthulhian tangle inside the box is impossible to manage.

There are so many active topics at the moment that we have to make a judgement call. Is it better to have all stage discussion in one place that is hard to navigate, or allow an individual thread for each stage? Bear in mind that with 14 stages already confirmed, this would add to the inordinate amount of clutter in the forum itself.

So, we have to ask a few questions. 1) Is there enough information to warrant a subforum? 2) Would removing stage discussion from this room leave enough material to discuss, and allow General to be distinct? 3) If we don't make a subforum, is it worth pushing other topics off the page?

Now, I will say that I agree with you. Search definitely exists for a reason. It's just no one uses it >_< my main concern is there simply isn't very much information about the stages right now. People are already making banned/restricted calls based on resemblance to existing levels.

But, if we can have a character forum, then we can have a stage forum. I believe we planned to do this all along, but needed to wait until we actually had information to discuss.

We can create a new forum or a subforum. Getting rid of stickies is always a good thing -- it opens up space. Remember, we're a volunteer staff. Creating a new forum or making a decision that drastically increases clutter means a large amount of work. That's not an excuse, it's just an explanation as to why certain decisions take a while we like to make absolutely sure before committing limited resources.

 

[TaurToph]

Completly agreed. Look at the stage discussion, 2500 posts of random stages throwed all togeter. I'll never even try to visit and discuss things there.


Each stage, item, notice, etc, deserves it's own topic. The only thing that can't happen is 2 topics for, say, the same stage. This way'll be really more organized.
Yea even the small and useless things deserves a topic. It'll fastfall to the second page anyway, so dont worry about it messing your view of the first page. The point is, someone will sometime want to discuss about this small thing so he'll just search the tittle and be happy.

Calling it "unorganized" is incorrect. What could be more organized than having all of the Stage-related posts in one thread?

It's exactly the opposite of organized!
Organization is having things in order so everytime you need that thing, or info, you'll have fast. And search infos about Yoshi Stage in a topic with 2500 posts, where 100, nor in order, are about Yoshi Stage, is really harder than just searshing Yoshi Stage in the tittle of a thread and then having instantly all posts about Yoshi Stage ordered and well organized.
Yoshi Stage FTW.

[Sorry for my english]
Yours
TaurToph

 

[Opfer]

I agree with the topic creator that putting it all into one thread isn't the way to go. I find myself reading the little update-specific threads that get closed once a mod sees them rather than going into the "***What's going on with Smashbros.com?***" thread, because it has almost 20.000 posts and there is no way a serious discussion is going to happen in that thread because too many people post into it.

I must admit that I don't know the ultimate solution to this problem, but I think that going with more subcategories and subforums with threads for individual topics would be a step in the right direction if the server resources allow it.

 

[Scav]

It's exactly the opposite of organized!
Organization is having things in order so everytime you need that thing, or info, you'll have fast. And search infos about Yoshi Stage in a topic with 2500 posts, where 100, nor in order, are about Yoshi Stage, is really harder than just searshing Yoshi Stage in the tittle of a thread and then having instantly all posts about Yoshi Stage ordered and well organized.
Yoshi Stage FTW.

You missed my point. Having 20 new active threads in this room isn't any more organized than a mess in one thread. They're disorganized for different reasons. Having everything neat and tidy would be nice, but to continue with my analogy, putting them in this room would be like throwing books on your bedroom floor. Yes, they're available, but they're also mixed with laundry, chords, dvds, and pizza boxes.

The best place for books is in a bookshelf. Which means a new forum. But if you only have 5 books, then it's better just to put them all in a big box labled "books hooray". That was our solution for when there was only a little information on stages. Now that we have more information, we can re-evaluate.

 

[GuardianSphinx]

all these references to rooms is pretty funny, but 20 new topics for stages is pretty unreasonable, agreed. Noobs aside... (grim) it just seems a bit of a waste having one huge topic about stages, and other random topics which have been locked and just float around the bottom of the first page - they should probably get deleted but hey what do i know about modding a forum.

EDIT: it's like. you get up in your room to clear up some bondage.. you only have 1 drawer for bondage but you shove your Bondage mouth gag and bondage shackles in the same drawer but the leather always gets tangled up with each other aswell as getting convered in old johnny juice....... it's not the good stuff

 

[the grim lizard]

Funny how it's only the noobs who think it's a good idea. Listen to Scav, guys; he's a smart guy.

 

[GuardianSphinx]

Funny how it's only the but lickers with loads of posts that agree with the guy who has the most posts - it's also funny how i always lick everyones but! .

hehe.. agreed

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

There really ought to be an outright Brawl Stage Discussion forum just like there is one for characters.

 

[Scav]

It is a good idea that might be overdue. I'm just saying, give us some credit and sharing some of the reasoning behind these decisions.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

It is a good idea that might be overdue. I'm just saying, give us some credit and sharing some of the reasoning behind these decisions.

Release SmashCast #5, and all your sins will be forgiven.

 

[Takalth]

There really ought to be an outright Brawl Stage Discussion forum just like there is one for characters.

QFT.

That would clear up a lot of clutter. Even if you have iron-fisted mods locking threads, you have clutter because there are usually 3-5 locked threads on the first page.

Really, I usually agree with the mods in their judgement calls. The only exceptions are:

1)When a thread has good discussion going and they lock it because the original premise was a duplicate of something else.

2)When they lock a thread without stating a reason. While 80% of locked threads are obvious, occasionally, I see a thread that I think shouldn't have been locked, and those don't always have a final mod comment.

 

[Scav]

You're correct there. Mods are always supposed to make a post saying why a thread is locked.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

All I can say is this: thank the heavens that SWF mods do not randomly delete posts/threads. Zelda Universe does that all the time, and it annoys me greatly. Nothing frustrates me more than writing a couple paragraphs and then returning the next day unable to locate my post at all. Be grateful that the mods here are lock-happy instead of delete-happy.

Along these same lines, it would be nice if a stage-focused forum stuck around after Brawl was released, too. Maybe not have a separate forum for each stage (like the characters), but a forum would be nice to discuss certain stage dynamics in a general sense (i.e. "How do you guys anticipate the position of the barrel on DK64?").

 

[ToyzSoldier]

*sigh* i kinda do wish that these forums were more clean like the adventurequest forum. So many sub forums made it so efficient.

 

[GimmeAnFSharp]

I'll try not to add to the flame...

if you're concerned with the way of things are done around here, I would think that you would take it to the authorities to atleast get a straight answer. Posting an open thread in a forum with your complaint about how things are done here just opens up the possibility of a flame thread like this one. I'm sure the moderators are well aware of what problems may exist on the board- and if they haven't fixed it, there's probably a good reason. This forum has been around forever; I remember when it was used for Melee character discussion (I had another account... I forgot about it). I'd leave it to the people who run this place, to, well, run this place.

 

[Takalth]

I'll try not to add to the flame...

if you're concerned with the way of things are done around here, I would think that you would take it to the authorities to atleast get a straight answer. Posting an open thread in a forum with your complaint about how things are done here just opens up the possibility of a flame thread like this one. I'm sure the moderators are well aware of what problems may exist on the board- and if they haven't fixed it, there's probably a good reason. This forum has been around forever; I remember when it was used for Melee character discussion (I had another account... I forgot about it). I'd leave it to the people who run this place, to, well, run this place.

Actually, this thread contains two good and enlightening responses from a moderator, and there's really not a lot of flame.

 

[GimmeAnFSharp]

Ah. Well, the whole entire first page is "lotsa posts vs. little posts" spammination, and it didn't seem to be going anywhere. I didn't bother reading the rest given the pattern I was prompted with.

 

[Ess oh Aytch]

This entire board is unorganized.

 

[Sariku]

I got a better idea, though it might seem alittle weird. In your Super Smash Bros. Melee Section, you got General Melee Discussion, Character Specific, Video Discussion, and the Smash BackRoom. Now I think it's not fair that the Super Smash Bros. Brawl Section isn't as elaborate. Now, the General Discussion on the Brawl section is fine, maybe just try to clean up some of the stickies, like the Official Stage Discussion is awfuly messy, first post wise. Maybe try spicing it up some?

But then you have the Brawl Character Discussion. Now you say This is the place for all discussion concerning the various characters, confirmed and not, for Super Smash Brothers Brawl. That's great and all, but why not elaborate more on it, accually give it the Character Subsections. Like Mario Room, Link Room, Ike Room, Snake Room, and so on. Yes, it won't get too many posts, but you told me yourself your goal is too stop spam. Now if spam doesn't happen, then it should be all fine. I'm sure one more person than me would enjoy to talk about our favorite characters in Brawl. Then you can have at the top your Unconfirmed Character Discussion. Now it WOULD be alot of trouble moving threads to the other section though, so I would understand why you wouldn't do that.

We don't need Video Discussion, so that can wait till after release.

But for the Smash Back Room, you COULD use my idea, just tweak it to how you see fit, but it's all your choise.

 

[the grim lizard]

At this point, it is all speculation; so there is no need to get as organized as the Melee thread...

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I'm starting to get tired. The title looks like "Thread Cutlery" every time I glance at it. It's a thread of knives!!!

I believe the forums are laid out in such a manner to slightly discourage too much speculation. We don't need to discuss Brawl so much until the game actually comes out and discussions start mattering as we all strive to figure this new system out.

 

[Scav]

I see it as Thread cutlery every time too :D

And Buzz is exactly right. In order to make a new forum, we like to make sure that it has enough unique information to make it both active and informative.

Fsharp, the lack of subforums is currently by design, and it's a personal preference of mine. Having a subforum for every concievable topic would indeed be more organized, but it would be a LOT more difficult to navigate. Subforums especially are hard to see and hard to find. For every new forum we make, and every subforum, we make sacrifices in simplicity and elegance. A subforum's advantages must outweight those. In this case, it does, because having a mess of Stage discussion is significantly less elegant than having a subforum.

Remember, we could easily make a subforum for items, stages, game modes, dojo updates, podcast discussion, and competitive play speculation. Then, we could also make forums for every character. We can even go uber-organized and make a forum for every individual item, every character, and every stage. That would certainly be more clean, but most of the forums would have 2-3 posts, and it would severely hamper the growth of the SWF community as a whole.

In regards to character discussion: There is not enough information yet for Ike to have his own room. Or even Mario. When the game is released we will have enough topics to discuss that they can get their own subforums, a la Melee.

The Melee forums are more elaborate for one very good reason: the game has been out for 6 years.

In regards to a new Backroom, the Smash Back Room is designed to cover Brawl as well. Password protected rooms make the site even less user friendly, and only serve to cause irritation. They need to be kept to a minimum.

 

[Sariku]

I see it as Thread cutlery every time too :D

And Buzz is exactly right. In order to make a new forum, we like to make sure that it has enough unique information to make it both active and informative.

Fsharp, the lack of subforums is currently by design, and it's a personal preference of mine. Having a subforum for every concievable topic would indeed be more organized, but it would be a LOT more difficult to navigate. Subforums especially are hard to see and hard to find. For every new forum we make, and every subforum, we make sacrifices in simplicity and elegance. A subforum's advantages must outweight those. In this case, it does, because having a mess of Stage discussion is significantly less elegant than having a subforum.

Remember, we could easily make a subforum for items, stages, game modes, dojo updates, podcast discussion, and competitive play speculation. Then, we could also make forums for every character. We can even go uber-organized and make a forum for every individual item, every character, and every stage. That would certainly be more clean, but most of the forums would have 2-3 posts, and it would severely hamper the growth of the SWF community as a whole.

In regards to character discussion: There is not enough information yet for Ike to have his own room. Or even Mario. When the game is released we will have enough topics to discuss that they can get their own subforums, a la Melee.

The Melee forums are more elaborate for one very good reason: the game has been out for 6 years.

In regards to a new Backroom, the Smash Back Room is designed to cover Brawl as well. Password protected rooms make the site even less user friendly, and only serve to cause irritation. They need to be kept to a minimum.

For the stages and such, I can completely agree, but don't do it each stage gets a subforum, cause as you said, we wouldnt' have any posts. Who really wants to talk about the Gooey Bomb more? But I still suggest that you do the Character one, just as it could also be for speculation, it doesn't have to be enough info, as its better to have that then athousand character question theards in one heavy room. I swear I hate going in the Brawl Character Specific Section cause you can't find anything, and there are alot of stupid ideas in there.

 

[Thunderslf]

I think that there should be a seperate section for stage discussion as there is character discussion. Like many people, I'd like to discuss specific stages to a certain degree that can't be acclaimed in a single topic about every stage in the game. So a specific board for stage discussion would be a good solution in my eyes.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

The Melee forums are more elaborate for one very good reason: the game has been out for 6 years.

Regardless, I hope to high heavens that if Brawl happens to have clone characters, you still don't group them together like the Melee forums were (Fox & Falco, Link & Young Link, etc.). Skip that whole phase. >_<