Thoughts on the New Stage Select Screen (Order)

[Kevandre]

Honestly if I hadn't been playing Smash Bros since the N64 release I'd probably be irritated with how the characters and stages are ordered. But since I am so established, and know what order the character reveals were (since Brawl at least) it aint no thang for me lol

 

[Jexulus]

As someone who's played every game in the series, I love this order. I know it's not for everyone, but Smash Wii U was kind of difficult for me except for Mario and LoZ characters at the top + the third parties and DLC at the bottom. Once it got past Brawl's 4 rows, it's very difficult to try to find these characters at a glance. That's a valid criticism. However, I'm hard-wired to identify characters in terms of what Smash game they first appeared in, so this clicks with me on every level.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Not everyone is hard wired to find their main by when they got added. I started in Smash Brawl and I literally have no idea where anything is now. I knew where all the Mario fighters were at all times when I first got the game as they were all grouped together. Now that the new order the characters and stages appear in is on par with a menu that randomly scatters fighters and stages across the screen, it's extremely confusing.

If they're keeping this as the only select screen available, then I have no choice but to begin modding my switch.

 

[Arthur97]

I will also add that even if you know what game they were added in (as I do) their order within that game is also weird with the exception of 64. How many people remember what order Brawl characters were announced in?

 

[soviet prince]

even if you don't know the exact order a brawl newcomer is there still going to be in the brawl newcomer group so all you have to find is the group with brawl in them if that makes since

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

even if you don't know the exact order a brawl newcomer is there still going to be in the brawl newcomer group so all you have to find is the group with brawl in them if that makes since

It doesn't make sense at all still. You have actually just made it more confusing, and I didn't think that was possible.

 

[FNUStory]

Actually, wouldn't middle be the worst? Simon, is pretty close to the end and therefore pretty easy to find. The ones in the middle though, might be a lot harder to find.

If it doesn’t stand out immediately, I scan through the top row left to right, move down to the next row and scan from right to left, and keep scanning through the rows alternating between left to right and right to left until I either find what I’m looking for or get to the bottom and realized I missed them somewhere.

If the latter is the case, I have to repeat the process from the top.

 

[soviet prince]

there all listed in order so it will be 64-melee-brawl-sm4-ultimate if you know a character was introduced in brawl just find a brawl newcomer and the character should be close by.

 

[FNUStory]

there all listed in order so it will be 64-melee-brawl-sm4-ultimate if you know a character was introduced in brawl just find a brawl newcomer and the character should be close by.

And not a whole lot of people know that order. It's not even sorted with in category. Even if I did know which fighters came from which games, I would have to search within the designated section to find them. The Stage Select Screen is the Third Great Maze, while the Character Select Screen is the Fourth.

For anyone who is curious, the Second Great Maze is Sm4sh's menu system.

 

[lucasla]

I dont think it will be a problem. Sure, a option to sort characters and stages by series would be nice, but if the game doesnt have it, it's not really a problem to me. Specially because we will be able to mark stages as favorites and with time we will know where any character or stage will be, and also, the way we will unlock characters will be pretty easy to remember where they are, cause we will start only with basicaly one line of characters.

 

[FNUStory]

...we will be able to mark stages as favorites...

Well I disagree with the rest of the post, but is this going to be a real thing?

Even if it is, it still doesn't fix the issues with fighters.

 

[Stompman]

I think we will eventually get used to finding characters and stages in this order. It shouldn’t take long to figure out.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Eh, Smash character and stage select screens haven't exactly ever been what I would call super clean. This order may be potentially frustrating, but it's probably the most consistent single idea unifying the select screen I've seen since I started playing Melee years ago.

That said, in a game with so many little minute options, not having a choice to re-order things to how you like DOES feel a bit weird. Even a nice "Sort By" option would have been great if we couldn't get a more custom designing process.

 

[Arthur97]

Eh, Smash character and stage select screens haven't exactly ever been what I would call super clean. This order may be potentially frustrating, but it's probably the most consistent single idea unifying the select screen I've seen since I started playing Melee years ago.

That said, in a game with so many little minute options, not having a choice to re-order things to how you like DOES feel a bit weird. Even a nice "Sort By" option would have been great if we couldn't get a more custom designing process.

Sakurai just seems to really want to stick with his numbers even if the order isn't consistent due to echoes. Several of the echoes didn't even exist when those Smash games came out.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Sakurai just seems to really want to stick with his numbers even if the order isn't consistent due to echoes. Several of the echoes didn't even exist when those Smash games came out.

I do understand the Echoes being paired with their original character in the sense that some people don't want them to take up slots on the CSS. In that way, I imagine they're kind of tethered to the base character and it helps easily communicate that this character if not already doubled up is indeed a character based off the one next to it. Plus Sakurai doesn't give them unique numbers.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't have liked an option to separate them.

Also Mii Fighters get logically placed at the end as the sort of weird custom characters, but they screw up the numbering method Sakurai went for WAY more than Echo fighters since they are actually give unique numbers...

 

[Arthur97]

Still think echoes should have numbers. Do we really need the extra notifier that they are clones?

 

[Uffe]

I think it looks fine as it is. However, it would be cool if they allowed you to have it in alphabetical order or ordered by series, like how they did with the trophies in previous games.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Still think echoes should have numbers. Do we really need the extra notifier that they are clones?

That is just Sakurai's way of dealing with people who always say this and that about roster slots. So, given how much backlash clones have gotten in the past, I'm inclined to say yes.

 

[Dreamking]

The CSS and stage select order is sufficient. I do agree if there was a sort option so selection could be sorted by series.

 

[Arthur97]

That is just Sakurai's way of dealing with people who always say this and that about roster slots. So, given how much backlash clones have gotten in the past, I'm inclined to say yes.

If they are so ill informed, should they be catered to?

 

[PeridotGX]

Honestly, yeah the Stage select screen is a mess. I'll be okay with it, but it's convoluted and messy looking. There are two better options I can think of.

1. Organization by Series then game, like Arcadnic suggested.

2. Seperate the stages by tabs based on game. All the stages for a game are in order by series so it works fine on their own, but clustering them all on one huge brick looks bad.

 

[Arthur97]

Honestly, yeah the Stage select screen is a mess. I'll be okay with it, but it's convoluted and messy looking. There are two better options I can think of.

1. Organization by Series then game, like Arcadnic suggested.

2. Seperate the stages by tabs based on game. All the stages for a game are in order by series so it works fine on their own, but clustering them all on one huge brick looks bad.

Adding to the second point, maybe not separate unlockable stages from starters.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The final build for the SSS and CSS are perfectly fine for me to handle

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

The final build for the SSS and CSS are perfectly fine for me to handle

Key word being "me".

There's more people out there who would benefit from seeing an organization by franchise. I'm talking about everyone who never actively played Smash 64 or Smash Melee. We're the ones that are going to get negatively affected by this decision.

Those two games came out 20 and 17 years ago respectively and have three sequels created since then with a fourth one on the horizon. So that pretty much includes everyone under the USA's current legal drinking age.

 

[Arthur97]

Key word being "me".

There's more people out there who would benefit from seeing an organization by franchise. I'm talking about everyone who never actively played Smash 64 or Smash Melee. We're the ones that are going to get negatively affected by this decision.

Those two games came out 20 and 17 years ago respectively and have three sequels created since then with a fourth one on the horizon. So that pretty much includes everyone under the USA's current legal drinking age.

Doesn't have to be just those who never played them. I played them all and I still don't like it. Melee and Brawl are probably the worst though as I don't know what order they were revealed in outside of the first trailer. Even then its iffy. And Melee's seems almost arbitrary.

 

[Golden Icarus]

I mean, it’s really cute and I love how referential it is...But I already know that it’s gonna be a huge pain in the neck.

Many of my friends that I play Smash with are not the most attentive people and have rather poor memory. Myself included, lol. In fact, one of my good friends would constantly forget Mewtwo was even in Smash 4 because of his placement on the roster. I already know it’s gonna be a pain having to constantly remind him where his favorite characters are...

And honestly, I’m a real stickler when it comes to user interface, as I myself have a real tough time navigating unfamiliar menus. Even though I am a student of Smash and will have no problem with this layout personally, I already feel for all the people who aren’t huge Smash nerds who won’t have any idea how to remember where everyone is. It’s a whole lot easier to be like, “Bowser Jr.? Oh he’s with the Mario characters.” Opposed to having to be like, “Bowser Jr.? Oh he’s right next to Duck Hunt and Shulk. Don’t you know the reveal order of Smash 4’s newcomers?”

On top of that, I just get even more annoyed when you add in the echoes to the equation. Like why on earth would Dark Samus be up with the original 12? Why would Lucina be next to Marth, rather than Robin, who she literally joined the series with? I have absolutely no problem with clones. They are a great way to add more characters that wouldn’t get in otherwise. But I just find the echo concept so so so stupid. We’ve always had clones. They don’t need a brand. And it just gets even worse when you look at characters like Doc and all three of the Links who get to be considered fully unique characters for whatever reason. It makes the echoes just seem like second rate fighters, which is just really lame to me.

So yeah, I really hope that there’s a toggle. I mean, they added a toggle to the Smashbros website, so at least someone over at Nintendo realized that they should probably have something more intuitive for the casual audience. And while I know it’d be really difficult given how massive the roster is, but I would absolutely love if they had something similar to Brawl. That layout was literally flawless. But even if they can’t pull that off, as long as we can set them apart by series, I’ll be happy.

 

[Arthur97]

I mean, it’s really cute and I love how referential it is...But I already know that it’s gonna be a huge pain in the neck.

Many of my friends that I play Smash with are not the most attentive people and have rather poor memory. Myself included, lol. In fact, one of my good friends would constantly forget Mewtwo was even in Smash 4 because of his placement on the roster. I already know it’s gonna be a pain having to constantly remind him where his favorite characters are...

And honestly, I’m a real stickler when it comes to user interface, as I myself have a real tough time navigating unfamiliar menus. Even though I am a student of Smash and will have no problem with this layout personally, I already feel for all the people who aren’t huge Smash nerds who won’t have any idea how to remember where everyone is. It’s a whole lot easier to be like, “Bowser Jr.? Oh he’s with the Mario characters.” Opposed to having to be like, “Bowser Jr.? Oh he’s right next to Duck Hunt and Shulk. Don’t you know the reveal order of Smash 4’s newcomers?”

On top of that, I just get even more annoyed when you add in the echoes to the equation. Like why on earth would Dark Samus be up with the original 12? Why would Lucina be next to Marth, rather than Robin, who she literally joined the series with? I have absolutely no problem with clones. They are a great way to add more characters that wouldn’t get in otherwise. But I just find the echo concept so so so stupid. We’ve always had clones. They don’t need a brand. And it just gets even worse when you look at characters like Doc and all three of the Links who get to be considered fully unique characters for whatever reason. It makes the echoes just seem like second rate fighters, which is just really lame to me.

So yeah, I really hope that there’s a toggle. I mean, they added a toggle to the Smashbros website, so at least someone over at Nintendo realized that they should probably have something more intuitive for the casual audience. And while I know it’d be really difficult given how massive the roster is, but I would absolutely love if they had something similar to Brawl. That layout was literally flawless. But even if they can’t pull that off, as long as we can set them apart by series, I’ll be happy.

Brawl probably was the cleanest.

I don't like the echo term for many of the same reasons, though I will say it was marketing genius. However, they could label them echo fighters without making them look second rate.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Key word being "mii".

There's more people out there who would benefit from seeing an organization by franchise. I'm talking about everyone who never actively played Smash 64 or Smash Melee. We're the ones that are going to get negatively affected by this decision.

Those two games came out 20 and 17 years ago respectively and have three sequels created since then with a fourth one on the horizon. So that pretty much includes everyone under the USA's current legal drinking age.

Considering that every Smash game has a different way in organizing their characters and stages, it would positively/negatively affected everyone regardless of their Smash experience or age.

I can understand why some will have problems with figuring out where’s where and who’s whom, but it’s something that isn’t gonna be changed without mods (and something to deal with until those mods begin)

I just get even more annoyed when you add in the echoes to the equation. Like why on earth would Dark Samus be up with the original 12? Why would Lucina be next to Marth, rather than Robin, who she literally joined the series with? I have absolutely no problem with clones. They are a great way to add more characters that wouldn’t get in otherwise. But I just find the echo concept so so so stupid. We’ve always had clones. They don’t need a brand. And it just gets even worse when you look at characters like Doc and all three of the Links who get to be considered fully unique characters for whatever reason. It makes the echoes just seem like second rate fighters, which is just really lame to me.

has multiple different moves from Mario, and similar thing with the Links ( has a normal grab and a new bomb, and...other than taunts, move effects, body types, and so on...idk...need more footage of the three together)

And echoes are right next to the fighter they copy to make it easier to group them together (which is why we have the echo grouping toggle thing)

However, they could label them echo fighters without making them look second rate.

Well besides and maybe , echoes do seem kinda 2nd rate ( are worse than but not by much, and I can’t tell whose better/worse/equal to, and could be worse than , who looks great this time)

 

[Golden Icarus]

has multiple different moves from Mario, and similar thing with the Links ( has a normal grab and a new bomb, and...other than taunts, move effects, body types, and so on...idk...need more footage of the three together)

And echoes are right next to the fighter they copy to make it easier to group them together (which is why we have the echo grouping toggle thing)

I know. I understand it completely. But I still don’t like it at all. Chrom and Ken have multiple different moves from Roy and Ryu. In fact, many people couldn’t even tell that Chrom was even echoing Roy in the first place. On top of that, their final smashes are far more unique than Doc’s and Young Link’s. Even if Dr. Mario might have more differences, I believe that the echoes have enough to be considered unique fighters.

I mean, Pokémon Trainer gets to be considered three characters, while Ryu and Ken combined are only considered one? Or better yet, Link, Toon Link, and Young Link make up 3 characters, while Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom only make up 2? That’s a little absurd in my eyes.

And yeah I don’t really like the toggle thingy either, but I do know some people who do so I’m cool with it. I just find the echo concept as a whole very clumsy.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Considering that every Smash game has a different way in organizing their characters and stages, it would positively/negatively affected everyone regardless of their Smash experience or age.

I can understand why some will have problems with figuring out where’s where and who’s whom, but it’s something that isn’t gonna be changed without mods (and something to deal with until those mods begin)

It's always something that affects every game, but Smash Ultimate takes it to a whole new level. Smash Melee and Smash Brawl did it perfectly grouping like characters with each other and dividing the roster in a way almost everyone can comprehend. I hated how the three full clones and the DLC were separated in Smash 4 in favor of clone and DLC sections because they weren't anywhere near their family franchises, but at least the rest of the roster was clean and made sense. The Ultimate Smash shouldn't make it a hassle to find everything for a majority of its players. It's sloppy and makes Sakurai look like he didn't care to clean up the mess.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I hate the CSS and the SSS. It's fine since I've been playing smash since 64, but when I play with friends that haven't they're gonna be lost.

I'll probably even be a bit lost when I'm trying to remember when a stage was introduced

 

[Arthur97]

It's always something that affects every game, but Smash Ultimate takes it to a whole new level. Smash Melee and Smash Brawl did it perfectly grouping like characters with each other and dividing the roster in a way almost everyone can comprehend. I hated how the three full clones were separated from their franchises in Smash 4 in favor of a clone section because they weren't anywhere near their family franchises, but at least the rest of the roster was clean and made sense. The Ultimate Smash shouldn't make it a hassle to find everything for a majority of its players. It's sloppy and makes Sakurai look like he didn't care to clean up the mess.

Don't forget the DLC for 4.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Don't forget the DLC for 4.

That's right, I forgot about that.

Edited.

 

[Arthur97]

Seriously, the bottom row for Smash 4 was a mess. Problem is, now, they all looks messy.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It's always something that affects every game, but Smash Ultimate takes it to a whole new level. Smash Melee and Smash Brawl did it perfectly grouping like characters with each other and dividing the roster in a way almost everyone can comprehend. I hated how the three full clones and the DLC were separated in Smash 4 in favor of clone and DLC sections because they weren't anywhere near their family franchises, but at least the rest of the roster was clean and made sense. The Ultimate Smash shouldn't make it a hassle to find everything for a majority of its players. It's sloppy and makes Sakurai look like he didn't care to clean up the mess.

I wouldn’t say Sakurai looks like he has no cares, but ok

 

[JCDied4U]

I wish they had a toggle to switch between chronological order and series for characters and stages just like how we already have the echo fighter toggle.

 

[letsgetsmashing]

I like how they are in order, but I wish instead of having them all on one page, there would be a page for each game. It would be in the same style as in the past when they've had separate pages for returning stages. A tab for 64, for Melee, for Brawl, for 3DS, and for Wii U. To me it's kind of a lot to look at right now with 103 stages on one page, especially if you're trying to find a specific stage.

 

[Sans3546]

i never got why this was ever an idea taken into consideration by more than five people at nintendo.

i mean i know where to find , but it makes little sense to me why it's sorted by reveal. if my friend is trying to find his main , he isn't going to know he has to look for the rest of the melee fighters to find him. he has only ever played sm4sh. besides, he loves fire emblem and loves the rest of the fighters from that franchise equally. i can't imagine him having to search the entire screen just to find all the fighters he wants to play.

 

[Arthur97]

i never got why this was ever an idea taken into consideration by more than five people at nintendo.

i mean i know where to find , but it makes little sense to me why it's sorted by reveal. if my friend is trying to find his main , he isn't going to know he has to look for the rest of the melee fighters to find him. he has only ever played sm4sh. besides, he loves fire emblem and loves the rest of the fighters from that franchise equally. i can't imagine him having to search the entire screen just to find all the fighters he wants to play.

Because one of those five was Sakurai. This seems like it may have just been one of those things the director insisted on whether it was a good idea or not.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

The only thing I don't like is how the stages aren't in the same order as in their respective games. Yes I know the unlockable stages are purposefully placed after the others, but even considering that, there are some stages that are out of place, like WarioWare. It's a bit weird.