Thoughts on the New Stage Select Screen (Order)

[soviet prince]

There are only a few people who actually want this, and it’s the people who have been around long enough to experience Smash’s entire history. Those are the only people who are going to know how the organization works. Everyone who has ever loved a franchise before Smash, or everyone who picked up Smash Brawl or Smash 4 as their first game will be way too confused to understand the screens. To those players, placing Mario and Luigi seven slots away from each other with no other Mario characters between the two would be no better than putting Marth, Simon, ROB, Greninja, and Lucas in a line next to eachother. They don’t see the structure which is what makes the current CSS awful.

I don't see what so confusing about it

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I don't see what so confusing about it

You may not be confused, but others will if this is what it looks like in the final game.

NEW PPL WILL LEARN THAT INFORMATION ( not mad lol just matching your reply)

to much hand holding these days, to much instant gratification, so much that ppl forget that sometimes there going to have to learn new things by themselves instead of spoonfeed the info.

There is literally no point for inexperienced players to know the information. Smash Ultimate is intended to be a game for everyone reguardless of whether this was their first Smash game or they played every Smash game preceding it. All veterans are returning, and all but 17 past stages have been confirmed up to this point in time, so we have almost every stage that they can possibly need from other games. Almost all the stages not yet confirmed to return are either too similar to a confirmed returning stage like Sector Z or are so hazardous that they become more about survival than fighting like Rumble Falls. This game has everything, so what reasons are there for a player to turn to any other Smash game?

Sorting by when the fighter or stage was added to Smash would be harmful to the players that didn’t pick up Smash 64 or Smash Melee as their first game, and there are more people that haven’t actively played those games. Anyone who played Smash 4 before one of those two games is screwed because all the new and returning characters and stages were mixed in with each other inconsistently, and the newcomer is screwed because they don’t know a thing about Smash history. Besides, when most sane people think of a character (let’s say King Dedede), they don’t think “That Brawl Veteran” but think “That Kirby Character”. People who played Smash games learned what series he belonged to because the Kirby icon is right there, and those who don’t know most likely don’t even know who King Dedede is and don’t care enough to think that. The same is true with stages. People don’t think of Spirit Train as “That 3DS Stage” but as “That Legend of Zelda Stage”.

 

[soviet prince]

The points we have been stressing is that not everyone knows what game a stage originated in. Smash 4 mixed them all with eachother, and to them it’s one big stage roster. People that started on this game have no clue which of their beloved stages came from which game. I honestly forget every time that Bridge of Eldin, Halbred, and Skyworld to name a few were Brawl stages. I can’t believe I have had to say this so many times to just a few people and yet the point still hasn’t seemed to be acknowledged, but...

NEW PEOPLE DON’T KNOW THAT INFORMATION.

Plus, if they’re sorted by time added to Smash, then where do the stages that originated from both versions of Smash 4 fall?

NEW PPL WILL LEARN THAT INFORMATION ( not mad lol just matching your reply)

to much hand holding these days, to much instant gratification, so much that ppl forget that sometimes there going to have to learn new things by themselves instead of spoonfeed the info.

 

[Koopaul]

I'm sorry but what is wrong with the option to organize the roster and stages based on series or when they were first introduced. The site itself gives you that option.

Heck, you even get the option to have echoes appear next to the fighter or stacked on the fighter. More options is always better. There are clearly people on this board who would prefer the organization to be based on series while others are fine with the current organization. It wouldn't be hard in the slightest to give people the option to organize things how they want.

And this game is giving players tons of options. You are even allowed to organize your own music playlists!

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I wouldn’t doubt Nintendo’s ability to allow us to organize CSS and SSS to our liking. It would solve any issues related to organization, but we haven’t yet confirmed whether or not this is even an option.

 

[Yuya-Noboru]

The characters may not be so bad if they used the series subdivide and didn't have echoes with the original. What's the point in organizing them by game if you're going to have Dark Samus with the originals, Daisy, Lucina, and Chrom with Melee, or Dark Pit with Brawl?

They are Echo Fighters which are kind of just an alternate skin, that's the difference with the normal newcomers. And with the "slot merge" parameter, it's kind of logical. Though, I don't like the CSS either and it's true that when you search a character you don't have to search or know perfectly the roster position. It's kind of logic to sort by franchise so you can find easily what you want. When you want to select a character, you don't think "I want that Melee character" but "that mario character".

The stages are strongly linked to specific Smash Bros' games and it will be easier for smash players to find the stage they wants. But it can be confusing I agree and the best solution would be "custom sort" for both CSS & SSS. It would be cool if they could give you the option to don't sort, but drag/change position of every stage/character slots. So you could put all the characters of your favorite franchise at the top or bottom, etc.

 

[Jamison]

This issue is these layouts aren't very intuitive for the majority of people. If you play any significant amount of time you'll learn where things are, but that's not the point. If a casual player picks up the game and wants to play Luigi and they see Mario in slot #1 they are going to expect Luigi in slot #2. Same with Fox and Falco, same with Link and Young Link, DK and Diddy etc. It's simply not an overall friendly layout for most people. If you play 64, Melee, Brawl, Sm4sh and Ultimate and you play them all every week then for those few people it's perfect. So essentially Mew2King will benefit and every casual player will suffer. It's simple, it seems most people prefer a grouping my franchise. Melee has a grouping by franchise and it works perfectly. Sm4sh doesn't and it has issues. Your Fire Emblem fan plays Marth then wants to try Lucina and she's down there then Corrin is somewhere else and you have no idea where Roy is etc.

None of is it game breaking. You'll eventually know where everyone you want to play is. The issue is still the layout simply doesn't make the most sense. It's not alphabetical or grouped in any way. With such a large number of stages/characters grouping helps to mentally compartmentalize. While I personally like the SSS it's mostly BC I have played all the smash games so finding the Melee stages I like will be easier for me. But someone who say has only played sm4sh is going to want to play Dreamland and not find it in the list of sm4sh stages, and there's no Kirby stages grouped together. You can't use any stage as an efficient starter point to find another stage. If you're looking for Bridge of Eldin and you find Hyrule Castle it doesn't help you locate Eldin. There are a ton of sm4sh players that came from Brawl but are too young and don't know Melee. Pokemon Stadium 1 isn't next to Pokemon Stadium 2. It's a lot of little things like that, that simply don't have a good flow to them.

Both screens only benefit longstanding veterans of the smash series. While it will benefit them it's going to come across as very confusing for more people. It's going to do more harm than good IMO. I'd much prefer they just take the Melee character select screen and squeeze in additionals characters based on franchise. It doesn't matter too much whether they put solo characters like R.O.B. or G&W. But Just having all the FE and pokemon characters feels like such a better layout.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It was very much by series with the exceptions of clones and DLC which, yes, was a bit of an unfair eyesore that I really wish they hadn't done.

Yoshi comes before Rosalina even though he’s given his own series to rep

Characters are even worse because it's not even by series in that wave of smash games making it even worse. Then having echoes appear next tot the originals. Like Chrom and Lucina being listed with Melee...which came out long before Awakening.

As for the sloppy comment, I meant it looked that way. I know there is a method to the madness, but it just doesn't look as nice to me.

That’s why echoes can be placed in the same slot as the person they copy, keeping order in the process (so instead of , you can have with Dark Pit being hidden alongside Pit, kinda like / or when you wanted to choose which Pokémon you wanted to start with)

 

[Arthur97]

They are Echo Fighters which are kind of just an alternate skin, that's the difference with the normal newcomers. And with the "slot merge" parameter, it's kind of logical. Though, I don't like the CSS either and it's true that when you search a character you don't have to search or know perfectly the roster position. It's kind of logic to sort by franchise so you can find easily what you want. When you want to select a character, you don't think "I want that Melee character" but "that mario character".

The stages are strongly linked to specific Smash Bros' games and it will be easier for smash players to find the stage they wants. But it can be confusing I agree and the best solution would be "custom sort" for both CSS & SSS. It would be cool if they could give you the option to don't sort, but drag/change position of every stage/character slots. So you could put all the characters of your favorite franchise at the top or bottom, etc.

Yoshi comes before Rosalina even though he’s given his own series to rep

That’s why echoes can be placed in the same slot as the person they copy, keeping order in the process (so instead of , you can have with Dark Pit being hidden alongside Pit, kinda like / or when you wanted to choose which Pokémon you wanted to start with)

But echoes are separate fighters. If they want to honor Smash history, the least they could do is put the characters where they actually belong.

 

[Iridium]

Eh, if you remember what game a certain stage is from, it couldn't take too long to find. I could get used to it just based on memory.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

But echoes are separate fighters. If they want to honor Smash history, the least they could do is put the characters where they actually belong.

That may be true, but they also don’t get their own number, so placing them together with or next to their original makes sense for this game

 

[Arthur97]

That may be true, but they also don’t get their own number, so placing them together with or next to their original makes sense for this game

No, because that isn't their debut games. Except Richter so far. If they care so much about Smash history, they should give them numbers.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

No, because that isn't their debut games.

But they’re also not characters who have an original moveset of their own. Every character who has their own numbers are a semi clone at worst and unique at best.

Also, if they were to be placed in the group of their game debut, then it’d akward to have the option in placing them into the same slot as the originals instead of having echoes placed right next to the first (which makes it easier to find echoes and make more space available for the Switch screen)

 

[Arthur97]

But they’re also not characters who have an original moveset of their own. Every character who has their own numbers are a semi clone at worst and unique at best.

Also, if they were to be placed in the group of their game debut, then it’d akward to have the option in placing them into the same slot as the originals instead of having echoes placed right next to the first (which makes it easier to find echoes and make more space available for the Switch screen)

So were several other fighters at one point (Luigi being the prime example). They should all have numbers.

 

[Yuya-Noboru]

So were several other fighters at one point (Luigi being the prime example). They should all have numbers.

No they shouldn't. Echo fighters are copy/pasted characters with different skins and slightly changed attributes, thus making them the same characters and don't deserves to have a proper number attached to them. You can't compare before-ultimate and after-ultimate echo fighters because the previous ones aren't echo fighters anymore. If there's a 6th opus of Smash and actual echo fighters get de-cloned, then they will change their numbers. Today, there's nothing to debate here but you just need to understand. This is logic.

 

[Arthur97]

No they shouldn't. Echo fighters are copy/pasted characters with different skins and slightly changed attributes, thus making them the same characters and don't deserves to have a proper number attached to them. You can't compare before-ultimate and after-ultimate echo fighters because the previous ones aren't echo fighters anymore. If there's a 6th opus of Smash and actual echo fighters get de-cloned, then they will change their numbers. Today, there's nothing to debate here but you just need to understand. This is logic.

It is your logic. They are not the same character either. Clones pre-4 got treated much better than Ultimate treats them. They were treated like another part of the cast, and that's how they should be treated now. Not like second rate trash.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

So were several other fighters at one point (Luigi being the prime example). They should all have numbers.

Luigi and others like him have been changed enough to have their own number while Pittoo and Lucina were meant to be alts and Chrom/Dark Samus/Daisy wouldn’t have gotten in without echoing someone (hell, Sakurai used Viridi and Palutena to hint how Chrom would’ve fought)

It is your logic. They are not the same character either. Clones pre-4 got treated much better than Ultimate treats them. They were treated like another part of the cast, and that's how they should be treated now. Not like second rate trash.

They were separate from everyone else instead of being placed among their crew members (the Mario characters ignoring being blocked off by , were together but was all alone, wasn’t next to Robin, and we’re close to while stayed away). Atleast now are with the people they copy/someone from the same series instead of being nowhere near them and is with his Melee people. DLC characters and Miis had an exception, but now they’re all in a proper enough order.

 

[Arthur97]

Luigi and others like him have been changed enough to have their own number while Pittoo and Lucina were meant to be alts and Chrom/Dark Samus/Daisy wouldn’t have gotten in without echoing someone (hell, Sakurai used Viridi and Palutena to hint how Chrom would’ve fought)

They were separate from everyone else instead of being placed among their crew members (the Mario characters ignoring being blocked off by , were together but was all alone, wasn’t next to Robin, and we’re close to while stayed away). Atleast now are with the people they copy/someone from the same series instead of being nowhere near them and is with his Melee people. DLC characters and Miis had an exception, but now they’re all in a proper enough order.

Yes, but they started as clones and they aren't numbered for the games they became different. They are listed with their debut games.

And I said pre-4. The clone corner was bad too. Don't lecture me on how the old ones were.

In the end, clones should not be treated as lesser as they have been. It can be insulting to their fans.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Yes, but they started as clones and they aren't numbered for the games they became different. They are listed with their debut games.

And I said pre-4. The clone corner was bad too. Don't lecture me on how the old ones were.

In the end, clones should not be treated as lesser as they have been. It can be insulting to their fans.

Listed with their debut games yes, but are also numbered by Smash appearance in Ultimate (hence Mario being #1 and K Rool being #67, both unique characters). As for pre-4, you had before in 64, and in front of on the left side of the css while were in front of/behind on the right side for Melee...besides Smash 4 all clones who weren’t semi have been right next to the person they copy.

Spoiler

Only Smash 4 really treats them as less than they’re worth while the other games at least place them next to their original instead of placing them in their own category (and the insult to fans part...so far there’s been nobody insulted by the echoes being with the original fighters, even accepting them sharing a slot together).

Also, I’m not lecturing you on anything, so you don’t need to think I’m doing so.

 

[Arthur97]

Listed with their debut games yes, but are also numbered by Smash appearance in Ultimate (hence Mario being #1 and K Rool being #67, both unique characters). As for pre-4, you had before in 64, and in front of on the left side of the css while were in front of/behind on the right side for Melee...besides Smash 4 all clones who weren’t semi have been right next to the person they copy.

Spoiler

View attachment 157390View attachment 157391

Only Smash 4 really treats them as less than they’re worth while the other games at least place them next to their original instead of placing them in their own category (and the insult to fans part...so far there’s been nobody insulted by the echoes being with the original fighters, even accepting them sharing a slot together).

Also, I’m not lecturing you on anything, so you don’t need to think I’m doing so.

In those cases they were always with their own series, now, they are being thrown out of the order putting them with games they don't belong with (except Richter) and denied their own numbers. The lack of a number also can give the impression that they will never be more.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

In those cases they were always with their own series, now, they are being thrown out of the order putting them with games they don't belong with (except Richter) and denied their own numbers. The lack of a number also can give the impression that they will never be more.

For the most parts some of the echoes might never be more than what they are now. Characters like Chrom, Daisy and Dark Pit wouldn’t have joined Smash if it weren’t for the echo availability. Now they can be treated like alts as intended for Smash 4 now that echoes can be swapped in and out like a costume (while still keeping the number order in tact)

And clones in the past were with their series due to those games being set up to have game series together compared to Ultimate going in debut order (for unique and semis atleast)...well excluding Melee Ganondorf who is above the other Zelda characters while the others are in the same row

 

[notion_of_the_ocean]

This may be trivial or perhaps not... but I noticed in the direct that one of the included tunes is the Star Fox stage tune in 64 (Sector Z?). I have an odd hunch that there may still be a few things in the stage department that Sakurai is not telling us yet. I think it is at least a decent chance the last two 64 stages return.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

This may be trivial or perhaps not... but I noticed in the direct that one of the included tunes is the Star Fox stage tune in 64 (Sector Z?). I have an odd hunch that there may still be a few things in the stage department that Sakurai is not telling us yet. I think it is at least a decent chance the last two 64 stages return.

Since there’s still a good amount of stages left of have their fates confirmed and the chance in a few more new stages, Sakurai is hiding some things for the next huge wave of Smash news

 

[soviet prince]

This issue is these layouts aren't very intuitive for the majority of people. If you play any significant amount of time you'll learn where things are, but that's not the point. If a casual player picks up the game and wants to play Luigi and they see Mario in slot #1 they are going to expect Luigi in slot #2. Same with Fox and Falco, same with Link and Young Link, DK and Diddy etc. It's simply not an overall friendly layout for most people. If you play 64, Melee, Brawl, Sm4sh and Ultimate and you play them all every week then for those few people it's perfect. So essentially Mew2King will benefit and every casual player will suffer. It's simple, it seems most people prefer a grouping my franchise. Melee has a grouping by franchise and it works perfectly. Sm4sh doesn't and it has issues. Your Fire Emblem fan plays Marth then waynts to try Lucina and she's down there then Corrin is somewhere else and you have no idea where Roy is etc.

None of is it game breaking. You'll eventually know where everyone you want to play is. The issue is still the layout simply doesn't make the most sense. It's not alphabetical or grouped in any way. With such a large number of stages/characters grouping helps to mentally compartmentalize. While I personally like the SSS it's mostly BC I have played all the smash games so finding the Melee stages I like will be easier for me. But someone who say has only played sm4sh is going to want to play Dreamland and not find it in the list of sm4sh stages, and there's no Kirby stages grouped together. You can't use any stage as an efficient starter point to find another stage. If you're looking for Bridge of Eldin and you find Hyrule Castle it doesn't help you locate Eldin. There are a ton of sm4sh players that came from Brawl but are too young and don't know Melee. Pokemon Stadium 1 isn't next to Pokemon Stadium 2. It's a lot of little things like that, that simply don't have a good flow to them.

Both screens only benefit longstanding veterans of the smash series. While it will benefit them it's going to come across as very confusing for more people. It's going to do more harm than good IMO. I'd much prefer they just take the Melee character select screen and squeeze in additionals characters based on franchise. It doesn't matter too much whether they put solo characters like R.O.B. or G&W. But Just having all the FE and pokemon characters feels like such a better layout.

10 extra sec looking for there character won't kill them

 

[CostLow]

I love that people want Smash Bros to be taken seriously as a competitive fighting game but then turn around and use casual first-time players as reason to resist sometging that would not bother competitive players in the least and is kind of giving a nod to those veteran players. Ultimate is not like Sm4sh, which aimed to bring in a massive new player base. Ultimate is the Ultimate Smash Bros game which means it is a celebration of Smash Bros (the entire series) not of each title respresented in Smash Bros. You want casual play stick to Brawl. This title is trying to appeal to competitive gamers who aren't going to let a character or stage selection screen keep them from competing. Hopefully we can change sort order, but if not then I would prefer the way it is being organized because it is organized for the sake of Smash Bros fans, not Mario or Zelda, or whatever other franchise you want it to be about.

 

[Arthur97]

For the most parts some of the echoes might never be more than what they are now. Characters like Chrom, Daisy and Dark Pit wouldn’t have joined Smash if it weren’t for the echo availability. Now they can be treated like alts as intended for Smash 4 now that echoes can be swapped in and out like a costume (while still keeping the number order in tact)

And clones in the past were with their series due to those games being set up to have game series together compared to Ultimate going in debut order (for unique and semis atleast)...well excluding Melee Ganondorf who is above the other Zelda characters while the others are in the same row

Then that is very much treating them as less than whole fighters. And they can't be alts because they aren't one for one. No matter how minor the differences, they are still separate fighters and should be treated as such even if you do not see it that way.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Then that is very much treating them as less than whole fighters. And they can't be alts because they aren't one for one. No matter how minor the differences, they are still separate fighters and should be treated as such even if you do not see it that way.

With the exception of Chrom, they practically are alts (but with some things special about them to make a difference). I understand you want echoes to have equal treatment, but if they’re gonna stay the same as another fighter (practically being extension of them), it makes sense for them to be right next to/in the same slot as their originals. Not too related, but it’s not as big of a deal as Zelda/Sheik and Samus/Zamus sharing a slot together in past games.

 

[Arthur97]

With the exception of Chrom, they practically are alts (but with some things special about them to make a difference). I understand you want echoes to have equal treatment, but if they’re gonna stay the same as another fighter (practically being extension of them), it makes sense for them to be right next to/in the same slot as their originals. Not too related, but it’s not as big of a deal as Zelda/Sheik and Samus/Zamus sharing a slot together in past games.

But they are not. You have yet to refute that. And you go from they are treated the same to they're practically alts. Make up your mind.

At the end of the day, they are separate characters, so not putting them with their debut games is not proper representation of the series, however, this is relatively mitigated if organized by series.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

But they are not. You have yet to refute that. And you go from they are treated the same to they're practically alts. Make up your mind.

I never changed my mind, it’s just that the likes of aren’t too different from (the first two were even meant to be alts last time), and outside of a final smash/idles/taunts/voice/victory poses they’re only extensions of another characters (that’s why I said they’re practically alts, but are also equal to them due to not being different by much and being placed right next to them). Characters like are different enough from to have their own spot and be reasonably placed in the right order (and also have their own tier list spot) while echoes are a free extension of someone else and aren’t really their own character.

If the echo fighters weren’t who they are they’d never have been in the game outside of an alt at best, so them getting the honor of joining Smash Bros at the minor cost of being just like someone else (and also sharing a slot or sharing a row/column at the least) is acceptable. Outside of placing the echoes in the top right corner of another character’s slot, the best you can get is either accept having placements like “” and “” or wait for someone to try and hack the game to fix the css to fit your way in organizing it.


Same thing with the stage select screen, only stages don’t really have clones for them...but there’ll probably be a hack that allows them to be organized the way you want them to be aswell

 

[Arthur97]

I never changed my mind, it’s just that the likes of aren’t too different from (the first two were even meant to be alts last time), and outside of a final smash/idles/taunts/voice/victory poses they’re only extensions of another characters (that’s why I said they’re practically alts, but are also equal to them due to not being different by much and being placed right next to them). Characters like are different enough from to have their own spot and be reasonably placed in the right order (and also have their own tier list spot) while echoes are a free extension of someone else and aren’t really their own character.

If the echo fighters weren’t who they are they’d never have been in the game outside of an alt at best, so them getting the honor of joining Smash Bros at the minor cost of being just like someone else (and also sharing a slot or sharing a row/column at the least) is acceptable. Outside of placing the echoes in the top right corner of another character’s slot, the best you can get is either accept having placements like “” and “” or wait for someone to try and hack the game to fix the css to fit your way in organizing it.


Same thing with the stage select screen, only stages don’t really have clones for them...but there’ll probably be a hack that allows them to be organized the way you want them to be aswell

I just say that any fighter who gets a unique spot should be treated as a full fighter. Is it too much to ask they be put in the right generation?

And, yes, the great honor it has bestowed up Lucina being incessantly called female Marth with this clone situation not helping.

 

[Jamison]

10 extra sec looking for there character won't kill them

But why have it take extra time at all? That's the whole point. It doesn't matter what order they are in BC people will eventually learn the order. But since it's neither alphabetical or by franchise it's going to take EXTRA time no matter what. I've never played Fire Emblem before but I know which characters are Fire Emblem still. Most people who have never played Kid Icarus games still know Palutena and Pit and Dark Pit are connected via their franchise. With echo fighters being next to/sharing a space with their original base character it doesn't even fully list characters by smash title. All of a sudden Lucina is with the Melee characters and Ike isn't near Marth even though he's next to him in sm4sh. So there are several factors that make the ordering less than ideal.

Extra time finding a character isn't going to kill anybody, but it's not going to help. I'm not saying it'll have massive negative repercussions either. I don't see anyone boycotting the game over it. But someone who doesn't own the game goes over to their friend's house who does own the game to play it and they can't find the characters they want in a quick manner. They are going to think negatively of that one aspect of the game. I'm not saying people are going to not buy the game bc it took 12 seconds to find the character they wanted instead of 5 seconds but it is simply not optimal. Echo fighter locations is an exception to the smash chronology rule so that can't even fully be used to find characters. Like when I heard Chrom was in the game but was an echo fighter I had no idea who he was an echo of. I didn't know if it was another Lucina or a different FE character. It wasn't as obvious as Dark Pit and Dark Samus. But he's a Roy echo so now he's with the Melee characters. It's a lot of little things like that, that simply don't make for an intuitive format. It adds an extra level of thinking when trying to figure out where characters are. There are multiple ways to list the characters that seem better than what they've announced.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

Finding the character you want shouldn't be a game of Where's Waldo. In the past, characters were grouped together by series, satellite series like Yoshi and Wario included, which made it convenient to find the fighter you want. Splitting them up by order they were added to Smash is just a mess, even for those who played every game in the series. Hopefully, the finished game will have them organized I a sensible manner to make things not frustrating to the player.

 

[Jamison]

I think a better option would be to combine their concept of numbering the characters by release but still grouping the franchise. So 1 is Mario so you put up the entire Mario roster. 2 is DK so you have DK, Diddy, K. Rool etc.

Spoiler: Proposed CSS character order based on current announced characters

I think something like that would be ideal. I personally prefer it to a snake ladder listing. So it looks well grouped with no franchise being split into different rows. Some liberties were taken such as putting the 3 links next to each other, pichu next to pikachu, doc next to mario like he was in melee, and keeping yoshi and wario by mario even though smash views them as separate franchises. Also, pokemon trainer split into 3 characters so you could choose the starter at CSS (But I still like the concept of you could hold X, Y, or Z to change the starter as the game loads. You could pick ivy then at loading screen switch it so you start with squirtle. That's not super relevant to CSS but it wouldn't force you to always start as squirtle but would also give you the option of mixing up your opponent as a character specific advantage). I also chose to display echo fighters as a separate character slot. This setup also gives room for some DLC characters. If they for example released another pokemon character you could just shift characters around. Pokemon could have an entire row, and earthbound could share with f-zero, ice climbers and fire emblem. So there's plenty of room to shift things around if new characters come out where you could still keep franchises intact. I tried to make the 2nd to last row represent the sm4sh newcomers. At first I had the mii's up a row but considering their uniqueness I think keeping them in the bottom left is better, assuming there will be some visual options to choose from such as outfits or selecting which Mii to base off of etc.

Spoiler: I know this is a CSS post, don't @ me please. Here are my current thoughts on SSS

I'm not sure how would be the best way to display stages. I'm weighing a few options. Having 100 stages on one screen could be cramped. So I feel like having multiple pages to cycle through would be more optimal, especially for people using the switch undocked where they would have a smaller screen. I don't think it needs to be like PM which has a handful of screens. I think it could be narrowed down to 2 or 3 pages. I'm still undecided on whether I prefer stage grouping by game or by franchise. Melee kept returning 64 stages separate at the bottom of the SSS with special stages BF and FD. Brawl had a page for Melee stages. So I'm leaning towards page 1 being special stages aka BF and FD, new stages, sm4sh stages and maybe brawl stages pending on how many stages that would put on the screen. I honestly don't know the stage count per game so I'm just roughly estimating that would be in the 40-60 range. Then page two could be melee/64 stages. Again, not entirely sure which page brawl stages would go on. I don't want to split brawl stages onto two different screens though.

Page 3 could be custom stages. To the best of my knowledge stage builder hasn't been showcased at all for ultimate. With a large number of stages and hazard toggle it feels less necessary to have a stage builder. Considering custom stages weren't ever really showcased, used competitively or given all that much attention I think there's a real possibility stage builder could not exist at all. But if they combined elements from brawl and sm4sh stage builder, gave you more control over blast zone size, hazards, backgrounds, possibly selecting multiple music tracks for a stage etc. there could still be a lot of potential for the few people who enjoy stage builder. I myself had around two dozen custom stages in sm4sh and casually played on them more often than the disc stages. Lots of hazardless remakes and it made the game a lot of fun for me personally.

Either way however it is broken up I think all 103 stages could be split onto two or three screens and that would be better than cramming them all onto one screen. There are more stages than characters and I feel you need a chunk of the screen to display the stage layout. You don't need to see every part of a character when selecting them, but I feel you should have some understanding of a stage before you even select it at SSS. So I'm leaning towards keeping the stages organized by smash game even though I don't think that's a good idea for CSS.

 

[Deleted member]

I would prefer it set up by franchises first, Smash series appearance second.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I just say that any fighter who gets a unique spot should be treated as a full fighter. Is it too much to ask they be put in the right generation?

At the current stage of the games development and the high chance in the game not being easily hacked within the first 3 months...yeah. If you’re lucky, they might allow customizations to the css (though if not, it won’t be as unorganized as Lego games have their css)

 

[Arthur97]

At the current stage of the games development and the high chance in the game not being easily hacked within the first 3 months...yeah. If you’re lucky, they might allow customizations to the css (though if not, it won’t be as unorganized as Lego games have their css)

Modding was not what I meant.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Not what I meant.

Well that’s the best solution that can happen atm. Otherwise, I suppose you can adjust to it after awhile

 

[CostLow]

View attachment 157542

Pokemon Trainer is one character. You choose the pokemon by clicking their image within pokemon trainer's picture.

 

[Jamison]

Pokemon Trainer is one character. You choose the pokemon by clicking their image within pokemon trainer's picture.

I know but I just remember going from P. Trainer in Brawl to each pokemon in Project M. Sheik didn't get her own CSS slot in Melee but in Brawl Samus and ZSS had separate slots as did Sheik/Zelda. So I just am still a fan of having a character slot for each transformation for any character than can "transform." Similarly to how I personally prefer echo fighters still have a separate slot. Just more wishful thinking.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Sheik didn't get her own CSS slot in Melee but in Brawl Samus and ZSS had separate slots as did Sheik/Zelda.

That was Smash 4 and Ultimate where they had separate css slots (unless you’re counting Sheik being selectable from the beginning and not her own css slot)