Thoughts on Balancing

[Necro'lic]

I admit my solution for PK Thunder is quite extreme, but it was mostly to nerf the ability to gimp Ness even after he succeeds in getting back to the stage.

Grant Ness the ability to use PK Thunder twice off-stage, should his PK Thunder be interrupted.

• At times, when Ness wall-bounces, his PK Thunder hits the stage (ex.: Final Destination), rendering wall-bouncing meaningless.
• Hitting Ness directly, however, will reset PK Thunder so that he can try two times.

I do like this idea though, along with your other ones, but this seems like a good idea. Though it depends on what you mean by "interrupt". Does this mean Pocket or Gravitational Pull and the like are still fair game to hit Ness? What about push back, which is technically damage but without hitstun?

I think my main problem with Ness' recovery is the plethora of OTHER much safer and less counterplayable ways to take out the PK Thunder. If the main counter to it was that thing EVERY character can do AND the kind that the Ness player can work around with enough prediction/reads/skill, I would have no problems. But that's not what we have right now.

I'm in favor of reducing strengths if necessary. A good example of this is in SSBU, where Ness' PK Flash moves faster at the cost of it not being as powerful. Although "flaw" and "weakness" are synonymous, perhaps "flaw" would have been a preferred word. In previous games, when Zelda used Din's Fire, she would fall to her death if she was off-stage. This has been improved. Ness' PK Flash also doesn't leave him in such a state if he uses the attack in the air, even if by accident. I think if I gave examples of weaknesses or flaws, that it would help clarify what I mean so that improving a move wouldn't make other moves meaningless. Fox and Falco used to only be able to use their forward special to recover, but now they can perform that and then their up special. Ike could probably be given a similar treatment to improve his recovery. Or perhaps it could be given to Chrom, since Chrom isn't like Ike in that regard.

Yeah, that's definitely a good differentiation; "Flaw". I think that works. Basically something that seems more like a flaw in design than something that is balanced to be bad in that certain way. For the Din's Fire example, it still has high endlag and no hitbox until release with a delay. Overall, a slow move. It doesn't NEED the freefall after use to fulfill its weakness nor strength. Same for PK Flash. So yes, these definitely are different things, and I am glad we can see eye to eye there.

 

[Crystanium]

I do like this idea though, along with your other ones, but this seems like a good idea. Though it depends on what you mean by "interrupt". Does this mean Pocket or Gravitational Pull and the like are still fair game to hit Ness? What about push back, which is technically damage but without hitstun?

Pocket and Gravitational Pull would still work against Ness, but with something like Pocket, it'd be difficult to gimp Ness if he could use PK Thunder a second time. Gravitational Pull, on the other hand, might still be an issue. I actually think Gravitational Pull's range should be reduced, or there should be more cool down. Kurogane Hammer says it's active from frames 2 to 60. FAF is 45 frames, which is odd, since because it doesn't seem that way when I'm fighting Rosalina & Luma as Samus. All my projectiles are easily dealt with. I'd be for size reduction, though. Just look at it. Not to mention Villager's Pocket. Not even Ness or Lucas' PSI Magnet is that large. Lucas has range, only because it doesn't surround him. But with Pocket, even if Villager fails to pocket anything, he has intangibility. Like, why reward someone who just ****ed up?