This Zelda is actually from OoT?

[Luthien]

I didn't rant about sheik.

Oro?

Oh, did you think I said you ranted about Sheik? *Checks post*

Haha, no. Basically, in OoT, Sheik rants on about the Triforce blahblahblah and THEN transforms into Zelda. So if you included the rant, THEN transforming would take forever. But the actual transformation took only about a second in OoT.

@ Stiputation, Drake3, and Hipsterkid: About the sword thing. Wouldn't a sword option create just as many balance issues as Sheik did? I mean, if Rapier Zelda totally kicks butt, and Normal Zelda stays about the same as she did in Melee (which I doubt), wouldn't people just stick to Rapier Zelda like they did with Sheik?

Also, whats wrong with having too many swordsmen? As I read in another thread, no one's complaining about too many fist/feet users. So long as there aren't any clones (Roy could've been SO much better), I'm fine with it.

Oh, and regarding that whole designer/professional thing: they clearly haven't changed much, though, which is what frusterates me. They've kept Din's Fire, and they've kept Farore's Wind, not to mention almost all of her other moves pretty much the same. I guess the point I'm trying to make here is: despite the fact they've had loads of time to revamp Zelda, they haven't changed many things (from what we can tell). So it's not looking so good for the moves we haven't confirmed yet.

 

[Iris]

Actually, going off of Sakurai's words about each character having a new flavor, I would assume that things are looking good for a change in attacks, since everything else seems the same. It's more like we're narrowing down the parts that could be different. I'd hate to see a TP dressed Zelda whose moves are all derived from OoT. It really defeats the point of her being the personification of all Zeldas. hopefully the developers know better than to stay in the past and base Zelda off of her OoT self when she's got so many more options.

Anyways, Sheik was original in Melee, but you have to be honest here. She may have been the first, but clearly she's not the only one anymore, not to mention her transformation method was weak and lacked any incentive. PT has a stamina setting which makes utilization of 3 character more fair and Samus trades off very different playing styles at the expense of a very powerful move. At this point, there's no more originality in transforming than there is in arrows or the rapier. If they wanted to keep Zelda original, they wouldn't have used both elements of her transformation for other characters and revealed them first.

I'd like to see no transforming moves on Zelda. No rapier moveset, no Sheik, no possession. TP gave her plenty of options to make her a full one-style character. Granted, if I had to choose, rapier or possessed Zelda would be better because at least they're not alternate personas. Just give her a simple and effective move.

 

[Your Hero]

Whoops, lmao, sorry. I told you I didn't play OoT :|

@Iris's first par.: I think farore's wind and din's fire were confirmed (the fire from one of the pics on the DOJO page, and the wind from that video of Zelda fighting.. somewhere on youtube S: )

 

[Iris]

Many people, including myself, caught glimpse of Nayru's Love in the same video. Not exactly groundbreaking though, as it was guaranteed to be in if any other goddess spells were.

 

[Luthien]

I'd hate to see a TP dressed Zelda whose moves are all derived from OoT. It really defeats the point of her being the personification of all Zeldas.

Yes, that would be a shame.

hopefully the developers know better than to stay in the past and base Zelda off of her OoT self when she's got so many more options.

I hope they're smart, considering they ARE professionals, but I've been dissapointed before... my main worry is kind of like what Hipsterkid said. Basically, I don't have their job, so I don't know all the factors. I'm sure the people making Zelda's moveset aren't thinking "Let's make Zelda crappy!"

I'd like to see no transforming moves on Zelda. No rapier moveset, no Sheik, no possession. TP gave her plenty of options to make her a full one-style character. Granted, if I had to choose, rapier or possessed Zelda would be better because at least they're not alternate personas. Just give her a simple and effective move.

I'm fifty/fifty either way. My desire to see it work ties with my worries about balance.

 

[blink777]

Look at Peach in Melee. Before Melee, had we ever seen Peach use an umbrella (Yes, I know she uses it several games after Melee), or turnips to throw at the enemy? If she has, please correct me, but it looks like they improvised all her special attacks.

Here's your correction:
Vegetables - Super Mario Bros. 2 (1988/89)
Parasol - Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars (1996)
Toad - Just about every game she's in, she's got a plethora of Toads that try to protect her.
Peach Bomber - The only one I couldn't find. But then, the "Bomber" attack has been all over the place in the Mario series, it's just Peach goes horizontally this time, as opposed to vertically.

As for the on-going Zelda/Sheik/Camel discussion, I'm not even going to bother. I've read all the recent posts and we're just going 'round in circles, giving the same arguments we've doled out many times before... It's going nowhere.

 

[Luthien]

As for the on-going Zelda/Sheik/Camel discussion, I'm not even going to bother. I've read all the recent posts and we're just going 'round in circles, giving the same arguments we've doled out many times before... It's going nowhere.

Actually, I'm very happy with the civility of Zelda/Sheik users now when it comes to differing opinions (for the most part). It's far more tolerable in this thread now than it was about a month or two ago. We've been making progress (peace-wise)... only very, very slowly. The conversations are starting to get deeper, and people are less outright biased (once again, for the most part ) Not that it matters; Nintendo's in the last stage, so I doubt anything we say/discover will effect Brawl at this point.

 

[blink777]

Actually, I'm very happy with the civility of Zelda/Sheik users now when it comes to differing opinions (for the most part). It's far more tolerable in this thread now than it was about a month or two ago. We've been making progress (peace-wise)... only very, very slowly. The conversations are starting to get deeper, and people are less outright biased (once again, for the most part

Oh yes, it certainly has been tamed a bit, and the posts have gotten significantly longer (not always a good thing); but the arguments are still all the same (bar that one about the developers not being capable of coming up with ideas with their time restraints... Load of crud, that was).

 

[Luthien]

Oh yes, it certainly has been tamed a bit, and the posts have gotten significantly longer (not always a good thing); but the arguments are still all the same (bar that one about the developers not being capable of coming up with ideas with their time restraints... Load of crud, that was).

Long posts? Whoever could be guilty of THAT heinous crime, I wonder?...

The arguements have changed a very small bit. But, more importantly, people's opinions have been changed. Look at me. I used to be pro Sheik. Then I used to be pro-Zelda. Now I'm somewhere in the middle.

And the developers might be busier than you think. How do we know how busy they are/aren't? We don't, so let's stop argueing about it, huh?

 

[Pulse]

I acuatually have an idea about this issue: Zelda still turns into Sheik, who now fights with a dagger as a nod to Tetra. Her standard special move is now the Light Arrows, as both a referance and a nerf.

 

[Greenpoe]

Here's your correction:
Vegetables - Super Mario Bros. 2 (1988/89)
Parasol - Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars (1996)
Toad - Just about every game she's in, she's got a plethora of Toads that try to protect her.
Peach Bomber - The only one I couldn't find. But then, the "Bomber" attack has been all over the place in the Mario series, it's just Peach goes horizontally this time, as opposed to vertically.

As for the on-going Zelda/Sheik/Camel discussion, I'm not even going to bother. I've read all the recent posts and we're just going 'round in circles, giving the same arguments we've doled out many times before... It's going nowhere.

Camel?! What is that? Sheik will probably play more like Metaknight or Pit (less power, but fast attacks) while Zelda will be for KO'ing.

 

[Ninja Sheikah]

Although Link is the TP version he has a couple moves from Zelda II: Adventure of Link. So in my opinion a design change doesn't really mean anything at all. =/

 

[Luthien]

Although Link is the TP version he has a couple moves from Zelda II: Adventure of Link. So in my opinion a design change doesn't really mean anything at all. =/

Yes, but that's because Link always looks more or less the same. Zelda's had so many different outfit's, hair colours, ages that it's very difficult to blend all those attributes into one persona. For example: TP Zelda using WW light arrows? Not happening. The cel-shaded arrows would clash with the realistic archer. So, design does to some degree limit movesets and attributes. Again, TP Zelda naturally weighs more than WW Zelda, so you can't give Brawl Zelda WW Zelda's weight stats, because Universal Zelda is represented by TP Zelda, who clearly weighs more than WW Zelda. That was fun to type, but I'll make it more simple:

How they figure Brawl Zelda's weight:
Brawl Zelda = Universal Zelda
Universal Zelda (represented by) Twilight Princess Zelda
Twilight Princess Zelda > Wind Waker Zelda
Universal Zelda > Wind Waker Zelda
Brawl Zelda =/= Wind Waker Zelda

Because Universal Zelda's physical features are represented by Twilight Princess Zelda, Zeldas with other physical traits attributes cannot be used. Simple? Absolutely not.

I think that design is a factor, simply because Twilight Princess Zelda (or Universal Zelda/Brawl Zelda) weighing 60 lbs in Brawl would make no sense. So, design does limit stat and moveset options.

 

[Ztarfish]

Camel?! What is that? Sheik will probably play more like Metaknight or Pit (less power, but fast attacks) while Zelda will be for KO'ing.

That was the ideal, but also the reason why many believe it didn't work. People who enjoy playing as fast, easy-combo characters will stick with Sheik and wonder why anyone would play as the slower, more reactive Zelda, and vice versa. I know I enjoy characters like Zelda, Ness, and Link much more than the faster Space Animals, Marth, and Sheik.

The reason people planning on using PT don't declare which one pokemon they're gonna use (aside from the whole stamina thing) is because since we don't know how they play, we assume that they all play equally.

If Zelda and Sheik were more equal in terms of play style I think the chances of people using them together would be much higher, but that would make no sense since the whole point of the two is the two vastly different play styles. Thus why I'm pulling for no Sheik in Brawl.

 

[Soluble Toast]

If Zelda and Sheik were more equal in terms of play style I think the chances of people using them together would be much higher, but that would make no sense since the whole point of the two is the two vastly different play styles. Thus why I'm pulling for no Sheik in Brawl.

Agreed.
If Sakurai can pull Sheik off effectively, I don't care about her inclusion.

Buut, if he just makes Sheik " Super Saiyan Zelda" again, someone dies.

 

[Pokec]

Agreed.
If Sakurai can pull Sheik off effectively, I don't care about her inclusion.

Buut, if he just makes Sheik " Super Saiyan Zelda" again, someone dies.

I lol'd. .

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

Not that I beleive that its TP Zelda, but that its just a smash bro's zelda..

They could always use zelda in the Shroud for shiek in brawl.

 

[blink777]

They could always use zelda in the Shroud for shiek in brawl.

We've already discussed that and the sheer difficulty of fighting (much less in Sheik's pseudo-extreme martial arts/breakdancing style) in a large cloak. Just try hanging a heavy blanket over yourself and trying to do any sort of fighting ****.

 

[Tingle_Stole_My_Pants]

Hate to be redundant/point out the obvious, but the Shiek from Melee wasn't exactly from OoT either ;D

I don't remember Shiek sporting more than a harp in OoT. In fact, I don't remember his/her hair looking quite like that. Now that I think about it, the design is very different in SSBM than it was in OoT.

Plus, I'm certain that SSBM Shiek is female, while I'm still slightly uncertain about OoT's Shiek.

I have to say, though the needles, chain, and vanish tricks were pretty neat, they were certainly not OoT material, and were very far from canonical. They're so uncanonical, in fact, that even the LoZ manga doesn't have them. Though it might fit the theme of the Shiekah (might), it's impossible to determine if Shiekah in the Zelda universe actually used those. Impa's teleport-thing certainly didn't feature smoke, and it's thought Shiek uses a deku nut to escape from Link.

Anyone telling you Shiek is from OoT hasn't payed very much attention to the Shiek in OoT. They are two completely different ambiguously-gendered blue-clad Shiekah people.

 

[Tingle_Stole_My_Pants]

We've already discussed that and the sheer difficulty of fighting (much less in Sheik's pseudo-extreme martial arts/breakdancing style) in a large cloak. Just try hanging a heavy blanket over yourself and trying to do any sort of fighting ****.

Been there, done that. There's actually an entire fighting art centered around using a heavy cloak/cape for defense and offense. There's even a version that uses it in swordplay to disarm your opponent, give misleading body language, hide your real position, conceal a weapon hidden in your off-hand, and even a cool trick where you twirl the cape, distracting them... and it falls to the ground, and you're nowhere to be found. In fact, you're right behind them, aiming a quick shot to their head =D. Forgot what it was called, though...

 

[Luthien]

Hate to be redundant/point out the obvious, but the Shiek from Melee wasn't exactly from OoT either ;D

I don't remember Shiek sporting more than a harp in OoT. In fact, I don't remember his/her hair looking quite like that. Now that I think about it, the design is very different in SSBM than it was in OoT.

It was very close; in fact, almost perfect. It was simply smoother; a gamecube level of graphics, as opposed to N64.

Plus, I'm certain that SSBM Shiek is female, while I'm still slightly uncertain about OoT's Shiek.

Oh, don't START. I still have headaches from those debates...

I have to say, though the needles, chain, and vanish tricks were pretty neat, they were certainly not OoT material, and were very far from canonical. They're so uncanonical, in fact, that even the LoZ manga doesn't have them. Though it might fit the theme of the Shiekah (might), it's impossible to determine if Shiekah in the Zelda universe actually used those. Impa's teleport-thing certainly didn't feature smoke, and it's thought Shiek uses a deku nut to escape from Link.

Anyone telling you Shiek is from OoT hasn't payed very much attention to the Shiek in OoT. They are two completely different ambiguously-gendered blue-clad Shiekah people.

They only had so much to work with, but that's not the only arguement. There is a Universal Zelda. There is no Universal Sheik. Sheik is a part of OoT Zelda, not WW Zelda, not TP Zelda. Therefore, Melee Sheik = OoT Sheik. Sheik was a technique that they decided to give Melee Zelda because OoT was the most recent of her forms.

However, I've started thinking; is it actually Universal Zelda/Link/Ganondorf who goes into Melee/Brawl? If you take a look at the trophy descriptions, they only describe the OoT Zelda, not any other. If it's the same in Brawl, will it actually be only TP Zelda in the descriptions, without any other Zelda inclusion? How would they cram Sheik in, then? So many questions, so little time... TWENTY TWO DAYS, PEOPLE!! (For some, anyway...)

@ Tingle: About the cloak thing; I know about that, but consider Sheiks moveset. Up-tilt would be incredibly difficult to do in a cloak, wouldn't you agree? And you can't deny a cloak slows you down. Of course, if Sakurai deems it different...

 

[blink777]

In fact, I don't remember his/her hair looking quite like that. Now that I think about it, the design is very different in SSBM than it was in OoT.

She almost looks exactly the same as the official artwork Nintendo released in conjunction with OoT. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/Sheik_oot.jpg
I think the differences between OoT and Melee Sheik look-wise is simply a matter of N64 vs GCN.

I have to say, though the needles, chain, and vanish tricks were pretty neat, they were certainly not OoT material, and were very far from canonical.
...
Impa's teleport-thing certainly didn't feature smoke, and it's thought Shiek uses a deku nut to escape from Link.

In terms of Vanish vs. Deku nut Vanish... That's being fairly nitpicky. Ice Climbers never shot mini-Glaciers in their game, but we all know what game their from. Mewtwo can't learn teleport in his games, but we know he's from the first-generation of Pokemon games. Sheik may not have used Needles to fight in OoT, but by sheer fact that she wasn't in any other game points to the fact that she's OoT Sheik, extrapolated.

Melee Zelda could very well be interpretted as an extrapolated OoT Zelda. Brawl's Zelda is very much a "Smash"/universal Zelda, simply by the logic that she looks TP, but so far has only OoT and extrapolated moves.

Gah... what a pointless argument on my part, but you get the point.

Anyone telling you Shiek is from OoT hasn't payed very much attention to the Shiek in OoT. They are two completely different ambiguously-gendered blue-clad Shiekah people.

I am 99.99% sure that the developers meant full well for Melee's Sheik to be the Sheik from OoT. Otherwise, they may as well have just made up a completely new character. They saw an interesting character concept with possibilities for good gameplay mechanics, so they extrapolated on OoT's Sheik to create a full character.

Been there, done that. There's actually an entire fighting art centered around using a heavy cloak/cape for defense and offense. There's even a version that uses it in swordplay to disarm your opponent, give misleading body language, hide your real position, conceal a weapon hidden in your off-hand, and even a cool trick where you twirl the cape, distracting them... and it falls to the ground, and you're nowhere to be found. In fact, you're right behind them, aiming a quick shot to their head =D. Forgot what it was called, though...

Once again, Sheik's style doesn't not work with a cloak: period. Furthermore, think about the amount of model clipping you had in Melee with the simple thrown-back cloaks/capes of Marth/Roy/Ganondorf and the hair problems with Zelda/Peach, and if E for All reports are to be taken fully, there are still clipping problems with Peach's dress. I don't even want to think about how a fully draped cloak will animate on a breakdancing ninja character...

 

[HuskytheGeek]

I think it is interesting to note how Zelda's special moves (besides transform) are all derived from the magic moves that Link obtains in OOT. This is what always made me think that this is the OOT Zelda. Sure, it is very possible that is a "universal"" Zelda, but the goddesses and the abilities that relate to them were a focal point in OOT only. This, plus the inclusion of Sheik, made it clear to me that Melee Zelda is the one from OOT, or, at least, heavily inspired by her.

Now, as far as Brawl goes, I don't now what all of her special moves are. I'm just assuming they have stayed the same for the most part. There is the debate of whether or not Sheik is still part of Zelda's moveset, a separate character, or even in the game at all. However, for the time being, let's ignore Sheik all together. I think we can safely say that Melee Zelda pretty much is OOT Zelda. Let's now all think back on the Zelda from TP. She carried a sword at some point and at the end of the game, she used light arrows. I honestly admit that I don't recall much about her. From what I can remember, she was not really a prominent character in the game at all. Much of the focus was placed on Midna. We already know Brawl Zelda does not have a sword and I doubt they have changed her moves to give her light arrows. Therefore, we can assume that this Zelda is pretty much the same magic-based Zelda we saw in Melee.

My point with all this gibberish is just to point out how I believe that this Zelda is still mainly based on the one from OOT. The only thing that seems really "universal" about her is the way she looks. Her moves kind of give it away in my mind though. Sakurai stated that Link IS the TP Link. He did not make the same distinction with Zelda, so I am left to assume this is the same Zelda as last time. This is also what leaves me to believe that Zelda will still have her transformation move from the last game and Sheik will still be part of her moveset and NOT a separate character.

 

[Soluble Toast]

I think it is interesting to note how Zelda's special moves (besides transform) are all derived from the magic moves that Link obtains in OOT. This is what always made me think that this is the OOT Zelda. Sure, it is very possible that is a "universal"" Zelda, but the goddesses and the abilities that relate to them were a focal point in OOT only. This, plus the inclusion of Sheik, made it clear to me that Melee Zelda is the one from OOT, or, at least, heavily inspired by her.

Now, as far as Brawl goes, I don't now what all of her special moves are. I'm just assuming they have stayed the same for the most part. There is the debate of whether or not Sheik is still part of Zelda's moveset, a separate character, or even in the game at all. However, for the time being, let's ignore Sheik all together. I think we can safely say that Melee Zelda pretty much is OOT Zelda. Let's now all think back on the Zelda from TP. She carried a sword at some point and at the end of the game, she used light arrows. I honestly admit that I don't recall much about her. From what I can remember, she was not really a prominent character in the game at all. Much of the focus was placed on Midna. We already know Brawl Zelda does not have a sword and I doubt they have changed her moves to give her light arrows. Therefore, we can assume that this Zelda is pretty much the same magic-based Zelda we saw in Melee.

My point with all this gibberish is just to point out how I believe that this Zelda is still mainly based on the one from OOT. The only thing that seems really "universal" about her is the way she looks. Her moves kind of give it away in my mind though. Sakurai stated that Link IS the TP Link. He did not make the same distinction with Zelda, so I am left to assume this is the same Zelda as last time. This is also what leaves me to believe that Zelda will still have her transformation move from the last game and Sheik will still be part of her moveset and NOT a separate character.

I agree with this. Well said.
Melee Zelda was completely OOT Zelda. Her moves/taunt/look were all OOT. Although, around the time of Melee's release there wasn't much inspiration to take from past Zelda games for Zelda's character. OOT was the latest BIG Zelda so they took all of the inspiration from there. The LOZ characters really seemed related to only one game in Melee.


TP is the new big Zelda, so Sakurai really should be taking a great chunk of the inspiration from there, but that only seems the case for Link. IMO, Sakurai simply got lazy with Zelda. TP gave him a great opportunity with Zelda for an original, and flashy move set, and finally give Zelda the opportunity to cut Sheik away from her hip, but by the looks of it Sakurai has kept Zelda completely the same, making her 95% OOT.

I don't know about anyone else, but Zelda being 95% OOT Zelda disappoints me. TP Zelda really had an opportunity to break Zelda's cliche " save me!!" role just in time for Brawl. Her sword could've been implemented in all kinds of ways:
A simple sword swipe here and there
Or, even combining her magic with the sword. I could imagine her SideB being something like a magic sword swipe that sends 2 curved energy blades towards an opponent. Her move set could've been so great:

B: Light arrows. Chargeable. Instead of looking like an arrow, it could have a ball like head with an energy trail, like it did in WW. This could make it different from Pit, and Link's arrows.

SideB: Energy sword- Zelda would swing the sword twice, into a large X like pattern, leaving behind an X of energy. The two pieces of the X would fly at the opponent like 2 curved energy blades.

Down B: Triforce- Zelda would form a small triforce of energy a tiny bit in front of her. 3 beams would shoot up from it.

Up B: Sword Barrage- Zelda would fly upwards with her sword, like Puppet Zelda.


Ahaha. Got a little carried away there.xP
Anyway, a little bit of that move set was made on the spot, but 3/4 of her melee move set was made up. At least this move set was true to her character, and made up right up on the spot, proving that Sakurai simply got lazy and didn't even bother to take into consideration the vast amount of possibilities TP created.

 

[Luthien]

I think it is interesting to note how Zelda's special moves (besides transform) are all derived from the magic moves that Link obtains in OOT. This is what always made me think that this is the OOT Zelda. Sure, it is very possible that is a "universal"" Zelda, but the goddesses and the abilities that relate to them were a focal point in OOT only. This, plus the inclusion of Sheik, made it clear to me that Melee Zelda is the one from OOT, or, at least, heavily inspired by her.

Yes, that's part of my worries: Melee Zelda may have been Universal Zelda, but there's room for doubt there. If she was universal Zelda, it's clear she was 90% OoT Zelda, 10% other Zelda games Zelda.

Now, as far as Brawl goes, I don't now what all of her special moves are. I'm just assuming they have stayed the same for the most part. There is the debate of whether or not Sheik is still part of Zelda's moveset, a separate character, or even in the game at all. However, for the time being, let's ignore Sheik all together. I think we can safely say that Melee Zelda pretty much is OOT Zelda. Let's now all think back on the Zelda from TP. She carried a sword at some point and at the end of the game, she used light arrows. I honestly admit that I don't recall much about her. From what I can remember, she was not really a prominent character in the game at all. Much of the focus was placed on Midna. We already know Brawl Zelda does not have a sword and I doubt they have changed her moves to give her light arrows. Therefore, we can assume that this Zelda is pretty much the same magic-based Zelda we saw in Melee.

That's what has us confused: is it Melee (OoT) Zelda with TP skin? Is it Melee (Universal) Zelda in TP skin with TP abilities? Is it Melee Zelda (Universal) in TP skin with OoT abilities? Is it Universal Zelda with OoT moves in TP skin? Is it Universal Zelda with TP moves? Is it only TP Zelda (that one's pretty much been ruled out...)? There are just too many catergories she could fit into for us to determine before the game comes out.

My point with all this gibberish is just to point out how I believe that this Zelda is still mainly based on the one from OOT.

That's exactly what we're afraid of: most of us figure that, seeing as how they can change her look so much, it's clearly not one Zelda from one game. So, there shouldn't be just moves from one game either.

The only thing that seems really "universal" about her is the way she looks. Her moves kind of give it away in my mind though. Sakurai stated that Link IS the TP Link. He did not make the same distinction with Zelda, so I am left to assume this is the same Zelda as last time. This is also what leaves me to believe that Zelda will still have her transformation move from the last game and Sheik will still be part of her moveset and NOT a separate character.

Zelda DOESN'T look Universal though. So far, she's only looked TP and OoT. How many other Zelda games are there? Many. Only two have been represented thus far.

Also, Sakurai never said that Brawl Link IS TP Link. And I quote:
"The design of this particular Link comes from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess."
Key word: design. As far as we're concerned, that's still Universal (Smash) Link. However, there's a little bit of trouble with that quote: "this particular". Those two words imply that all three Smash Links have been different Links, eliminating the Universal Link theory. So Brawl Link may actually only be TP Link after all.

And then there's ANOTHER issue: english translation. The enlish translator has changed Sakurai's words before, so we can't really trust anything we read on the english pages. The question is: what has been changed, and what hasn't? The things that have been changed are trivial, but how do we know that serious things haven't been translated incorrectly? One small word is all it takes to cause an uproar; take a look around this forum. We can't really afford to speculate on anything, becuase there are too many things that could've been either misspoken, misinterprited, or mistranslated. Confused yet? I am.

Basically, I HOPE it's Universal Zelda, because I want the entire series represented in the Smash world. However, it may not be. We'll have to wait and see; it all depends on her moveset.

 

[NeoZ]

I agree with you but the problem arises when trying to represent to many incarnations in just one character with a limited amount of moves, the best solution typically is to focus in just one and work around that, but here the focus is still on OoT while(from what I hear, haven't played TP) other games have enough raw material to make Zelda a unique character.
They might have trouble deciding whether to change some of her Specials as they're (kinda) a set.
Also while Brawl Link may have his design(voice, looks, weapons) taken from TP, in the end they're still the same moves we had in Smash64 and Melee, they were just tweaked a little.

 

[Stiputation]

I'm not worried.
Like its been said before. This is Universal Zelda. Not TP Zelda and not OOT Zelda.

Theres not a chance in hell that Sakurai would give Zelda ALL OOT moves and not ONE TP move. Shes certainly retaining her moveset thats from Melee, but at the same time, she never REALLY used those moves in OOT. Those were the moves that Link used that Zelda is just borrowing for smash.

Which leaves me to believe that she will utilize at least ONE move that she used in TP, aka: Light Arrows or her rapier. Now, the moves have certainly been narrowed. We can say that all three of the B moves that weren't a transformation have been included in Brawl which leaves her DownB to be the only move in her moveset that would possibly be able to represent TP. If Sakurai were to include Sheik, Zelda would be entirely based off of OOT. In order for her to be "universal" Zelda, like everyone is saying, she needs to have AT LEAST one move that is designated to TP. Luckily, the moves have been narrowed down and her transformation stands the biggest chance of being altered.

 

[Soluble Toast]

I'm not worried.
Like its been said before. This is Universal Zelda. Not TP Zelda and not OOT Zelda.

Theres not a chance in hell that Sakurai would give Zelda ALL OOT moves and not ONE TP move. Shes certainly retaining her moveset thats from Melee, but at the same time, she never REALLY used those moves in OOT. Those were the moves that Link used that Zelda is just borrowing for smash.

Which leaves me to believe that she will utilize at least ONE move that she used in TP, aka: Light Arrows or her rapier. Now, the moves have certainly been narrowed. We can say that all three of the B moves that weren't a transformation have been included in Brawl which leaves her DownB to be the only move in her moveset that would possibly be able to represent TP. If Sakurai were to include Sheik, Zelda would be entirely based off of OOT. In order for her to be "universal" Zelda, like everyone is saying, she needs to have AT LEAST one move that is designated to TP. Luckily, the moves have been narrowed down and her transformation stands the biggest chance of being altered.

Honestly, I don't think Sakurai cares about representing TP in her B moves anymore. I think Sakurai seems to think Zelda's B moves are perfectly fine ( ughhh) and don't need changing. He could also add Light arrows as her Final Smash and say " Hey, TP was represented in her FS! she'z universal!!111 lolz"

I hope he doesn't do that though. light arrows are a horrible final smash. I can only see Zelda being able to fire off 1 light arrow at a time. For it to be a decent final smash she'd need to be able to fire off a barrage, and I just don't see Zelda doing that. I know she's represented as an archer, but I still don't see her creating a barrage.


Here's to hoping Sakurai is actually sensible enough to realise that Zelda needs an anti-OOT move somewhere in her B move list, and as you say DownB is the only plausible choice at this moment.

 

[blink777]

Just a quick comment:

We should all stop thinking of Light Arrows being something that would give Zelda a TP feel. Don't forget,

Spoiler

she also used them in Wind Waker, and she was the one who gave them to Link in OoT

(small spoilers for console Zelda games). I haven't played many of the Zelda handheld/NES games, so I can't comment on them. If anything, Light Arrows are just about the only universal thing Zelda has going for her, especially on the console games.

Of course, I'm still highly doubting we'll get 'em (). Just try not to give TP all the credit for the Zelda/Light Arrow connection: makes our arguments less than they can be .

 

[Soluble Toast]

Just a quick comment:

We should all stop thinking of Light Arrows being something that would give Zelda a TP feel. Don't forget,

Spoiler

she also used them in Wind Waker, and she was the one who gave them to Link in OoT

(small spoilers for console Zelda games). I haven't played many of the Zelda handheld/NES games, so I can't comment on them. If anything, Light Arrows are just about the only universal thing Zelda has going for her, especially on the console games.

Of course, I'm still highly doubting we'll get 'em (). Just try not to give TP all the credit for the Zelda/Light Arrow connection: makes our arguments less than they can be .

Haha. True. They're Zelda's weapon of choice, so they would be universal, buut the bow will most likely be given the TP skin, being more associated with TP Zelda than WW Zelda, but still giving WW a nod as a light arrow user.

Yeah, She never uses them in the handheld games , they're never even associated with her. I can't remember if the Silver Arrows were ever associated with Zelda or not though =S

 

[G-X]

Here's to hoping Sakurai is actually sensible enough to realise that Zelda needs an anti-OOT move somewhere in her B move list, and as you say DownB is the only plausible choice at this moment.

Not necessarily. Down-B could be Naryu's Love (parallel with other shield-type down-B's) and neutral B could be Light Arrows.

Shiek could/should be a different character.

Or Zelda's final smash.

 

[Soluble Toast]

Not necessarily. Down-B could be Naryu's Love (parallel with other shield-type down-B's) and neutral B could be Light Arrows.

Shiek could/should be a different character.

Or Zelda's final smash.

ohhh yeah. Forgot about Nayru's love being switched to DownB. Silly me xD

I'm rooting for out all together. I'd prefer another character to represent the Zelda series. The handheld series need represented. I think WW Link, and Vaati would do a good job of that.

If Sheik has to be included as a Final smash, I hope it's a Final Smash that starts and ends with Zelda. Eg:

Zelda fires up her bow, and sends out a couple of light arrows, just as the arrows are about to hit the opponent Zelda throws her left hand into the air and the Triforce of wisdom glows, stopping time, and the arrows in front of the opponent , she warps away and re-appears in a puff of smoke , as Sheik poofing around the opponent, delivering fast, and hard punches , she would poof out and re-appear as Zelda. Zelda would throw her hand in the air again, causing time to flow normally and the light arrows would fly into the opponent causing the final blow of the FS

 

[NeoZ]

Nice and creative idea, but leaving Sheik just as an attack animation would be a really bad move, and it's also not very smash-like to have cutscene-attacks.

 

[Soluble Toast]

Nice and creative idea, but leaving Sheik just as an attack animation would be a really bad move, and it's also not very smash-like to have cutscene-attacks.

Wouldn't really be cut scenes. It would all be happening fast, and zoomed out like all final smashes.

As for Sheik, meh, I wouldn't really care if she was simply an attack animation xD

 

[NeoZ]

But it was really fun to change between Sheik and Zelda depending on the situation(I'm not just saying, I actually do that), for example edgeguarding or comboing with Shiek and lightning-kicking people or backthrowing with Zelda. It also made her the most unique character.

 

[Luthien]

But it was really fun to change between Sheik and Zelda depending on the situation(I'm not just saying I actually do that), for example edgeguarding or comboing with Shiek and lightning-kicking people or backthrowing with Zelda. It also made her the most unique character.

Yes, it was fun, if you were playing casually, but in a competive scene (from what I understand) this destroyed the pair. Zelda was awefull already, but could you imagine Sheik with an offensive down-b? The point is, there was no situation in Melee Zelda could handle that Sheik couldn't do better. Edguarding with Zelda's f-air? Sheik's f-air was far safer, with the same results regarding horizontal knockback.

The only thing Zelda could agrueably do better than Sheik was her recovery. And even then, if you manage to sweetspot the ledge (not sweetspotting usually results in death), getting back onto the stage unharmed was a challenge, at best.

Basically, people don't want the pair to be connected because of the disasterous results from Melee.

The problem wasn't with the technicalities, it was with the concept. Zelda + Sheik did not make = 2 characters. If they did, that would be a seriously broken character, and there would be no genuine reason to switch. Also, Zelda + Sheik did not = 1 character. If they did, both Zelda and Sheik would be so bad, the player wouldn't be able to find time to switch, they'd be too busy being owned by their opponent. So Nintendo went with the lesser of three evils: Zelda + Sheik = 1.75 characters. Sheik was worth 1, Zelda was worth .75 (I'm being a little too harsh on Zelda; she could hold her own in casual play, but in competitive, Zelda has a really hard time against characters with 'complete' movesets). If Nintendo considers 1.75 characters 'unique', I want boring.

 

[NeoZ]

They could change Sheik's chain for something useful and make transform a... TAUNT(yeah right).
While it's the best way to keep them as a pair and give them complete movesets at the same time, it actually would be really unfair.
Also never call Zelda .75 of a character, she was really fun to play as(just like Mewtwo, which was awesome) and fun is the most important thing (as smash is a game).

 

[PwnyRide]

They could change Sheik's chain for something useful and make transform a... TAUNT(yeah right).
While it's the best way to keep them as a pair and give them complete movesets at the same time, it actually would be really unfair.
Also never call Zelda .75 of a character, she was really fun to play as(just like Mewtwo, which was awesome) and fun is the most important thing (as smash is a game).

Because having to spam f-air and b-air was sooooo fun in melee...
Lets face it, she desperately needs a rework that doesnt include Shiek. And lets say Shiek is in as a Down+b again.
ALL her attacks need to be buffed (altered on terms of her f and b airs) altered and/or reworked. Even if her skillset remins the same, he attacks could and should work differently.

Of course in an ideal world her transform WOULD be a taunt, but ideal world? It's all looking somewhat bleak in the future of Zelda mains getting a complete character.

Luthien is completely correct: Zelda as a whole was only .75 of her whole being. When he other half can cater to all situations and better, why play as Zelda? And may i remind you, who was the one, in OoT, who held down Gannondorf just so Link could get the final kill in? Well it wasnt Shiek, thats for sure.

I think Sakurai needs to give people a REAL REASON to play Zelda. Lets hope that that reason, again, isnt Shiek, and if he goes by TP standards, it all should be fine.

She doesnt even use OoT spells. Feel free and try and correct me, but the spells she uses are only named after a few spells that appeared in OoT, purely to appeal to the Zelda fanbase. It is best to call this Zelda a Universal Zelda. Because its universal doesnt mean it has to include Shiek :D

 

[HipsterKid]

She doesnt even use OoT spells. Feel free and try and correct me, but the spells she uses are only named after a few spells that appeared in OoT, purely to appeal to the Zelda fanbase. It is best to call this Zelda a Universal Zelda. Because its universal doesnt mean it has to include Shiek :D

Trust me, I've tried using this argument before and it didn't really work for me.
Of course, you do have a point and I agree with you all the way, since I did have the same idea.
However, some people seem to think that, by keeping all of her four special moves, it would be over-representation of OoT.
With this argument, that makes it false. That's what I've always been trying to say. This argument can actually be considered Pro-Sheik, which is why I used it.

 

[PwnyRide]

Trust me, I've tried using this argument before and it didn't really work for me.
Of course, you do have a point and I agree with you all the way, since I did have the same idea.
However, some people seem to think that, by keeping all of her four special moves, it would be over-representation of OoT.
With this argument, that makes it false. That's what I've always been trying to say. This argument can actually be considered Pro-Sheik, which is why I used it.

Alas, we are on the outside looking in

I mean, its not like Naryu , Din and Farore only appear in one game