This Zelda is actually from OoT?

[Urser]

Is the Zelda in Brawl REALLY the Zelda from TP? I'm starting to think that this particular Zelda may actually be the same Zelda from OoT.

Reasons:

Let's take a look at Zelda's page.

Just like Link, Zelda’s design has also changed.
She has a slightly more subdued color scheme.

They say that her design and color scheme have changed. So what? That's just because Link from TP is in the game. So they only changed her appearance.

Now we'll take a look at the color change update. Here they have supplied us with many pictures, one of them being this:

This picture striked me as odd because why would they give Zelda the option to be in her classic outfit and not give Link the same? My conclusion: This Zelda is NOT from TP. The Link in Brawl IS.

And then there's the Kirby's moves update.

Oh look! It's young Zelda's hat from OoT.

I know some of you guys are absolutely against Sheik returning because this is the TP Zelda. But from my knowledge, that was not stated anywhere. So it is a possibility that this particular Zelda is in fact from OoT. Therefore almost confirming the return of Sheik.

I'm terribly sorry if this has been discussed already.

 

[Stiputation]

This Zelda is not from OOT or TP
Its Super Smash Bros BRAWL Zelda.
Shocking?

Plus, this in no way confirms Sheik at all.
Sakurai simply thought it would be nice to create a design palette that included the old Zelda scheme from Melee. Although as usual it would be taken out of context. Plus, NO veteran had its headthing COMPLETELY re-designed. Why re-design Zelda's simply because a new move might be replacing Sheik? Its her staple in the Smash series.

It Zelda simply has a Twilight Princess design scheme. Meaning she could also have a move that comes from TP much like Link does. Does Light Arrows sound familar? Along with a mulitude of possibilities that doesn't include Sheik?

 

[Your Hero]

Sakurai makes his own version of the chracters, and tries to get then to look as similar as possible towards the newer version of the series.

It's neither OoT or TP zelda, just like Stip says.

 

[Luthien]

This question has brought up a lot of confusion in the forums. And there is only one answer: it is neither OoT Zelda no TP Zelda which is represented in Brawl. It is UNIVERSAL ZELDA.

Universal Zelda is the Zelda which represents the entire Zelda merchandise. This is the Zelda which is shown in each Smash game.

The chaos begins, however, when you take a look at all the different Zelda's. Trying to get them into one, big iconical Zelda is difficult, because the Zelda timeline has shown many different Zelda's in many different times with many different abilities.

I'll try to make things less difficult by using Universal Mario; it's easier with him. Take the first Mario game. Woohoo. Fun. Now, take the second game. It's the EXACT SAME Mario, just a couple of days (for all I know, couldn't have been more than a few years with the age difference... gah, that's not important) later. Does he have different abilities? Yes. But he HIMSELF, not a descendant, not an alternate timelined persona, grew to have them. This is true for all the Mario games (not including Donkey Kong).

Now let's take a look at OoT Zelda. What do we know?
A) She can turn into Sheik.
B) She's roughly 16 years old (I don't remember! Need to play that game again...)
C)

Spoiler

She locks Ganondorf in the Sacred Realm at the end of the game.

Now we'll look at Wind Waker Zelda. What do we know?
A)

Spoiler

She's an alter-ego of Tetra

B) She's a child who was born thousands of years AFTER OCRAINA OF TIME ZELDA
C)

Spoiler

She helps WW Link kill (or not...) Ganondorf.

These two Zelda's are not the same. There is absolutely no reason for WW Zelda to transform into Sheik, because OoT Zelda and WW Zelda are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE. Compare that to Mario.

Lastly, take Twilight Princess Zelda. What do we know?
A) She can use light arrows/magic to a degree
B) She's roughly the same age as OoT Zelda
C) She is NOT OoT Zelda
D)

Spoiler

She helps Link kill (once again: or not) Ganondorf.

How do I know TP Zelda isn't OoT Zelda? It's incredibly complicated, because the Legend of Zelda series has a seriously warped timeline. Basically, OoT Zelda knew Link, and TP Zelda did not. There are many other differences, this is just one deciding example.

People use the lack of a timeline as an excuse. The lack of DIRECT evidence allows them to ignorantly walk in bliss and ignore the truth.

To get back to the point, Melee Zelda is NOT OCARINA OF TIME ZELDA. Period. She is UNIVERSAL ZELDA.

Why the OoT skin? Because that is the most recent form of Zelda, and that was also the most realistic form: they put Zelda in the "More realistic heroes" event match for a reason.

So, Brawl Zelda is not TP Zelda OR OoT Zelda. SHE IS STILL UNIVERSAL ZELDA. So far, I'm working with absolute truth.

Now it gets extremely tricky. With Universal Mario, there are a bunch of techniques you can take and get away with, because he's one character with a huge inventory of attacks. Universal Zelda, however, is made up of a bunch of small (for lack of a better term) Zeldas, each packed with a small inventory of techniques.

Which techniques to take? If you've been through this forum at all, you know what chaos this question has raised.

The answer in shortened form, is that it's all up to Sakurai. Don't like it? Deal with it. That's the way it goes.

 

[Drake3]

Uhh but it's clearly more TP Zelda than it is OoT Zelda. Compare the two different models with the two different concept arts. I'm not even sure what you're talking about because there's alot of faulty logic and reasoning.

Zelda's design actually changed alot from OoT--> TP. The Zelda in the picture you show isn't OoT Zelda, it's the TP model with a pink dress and blonde hair. If you wanted the actual OoT version, you'd have to change her hairstyle, her dress, her jewelry, and pretty much everything else. Link's changes are much more subtle because he has mostly kept the blonde hair and green tunic.

Edit: My post is directed at the OP and not at you, Luthien. I just had to do some Link research first while I was writing it.

And I do agree with the aboves in that Brawl Zelda is an amalgamation of all other Zelda's, but she is fashioned after the most recent one.

 

[Your Hero]

Luthien, it's called spoiler tags. Please edit your post and use them.

 

[Luthien]

Luthien, it's called spoiler tags. Please edit your post and use them.

Hehe... sorry. I just figured out how to use that... nowish. ^^'

My appoligies.

Edit: @ Drake3: Oh, good. I saw your comment and was like: "Flawed logic? Where?!" *Frantically searches*

 

[Your Hero]

All you need to spoiler tag is
C) from OoT and WW zelda
A)+D) from TP zelda.

The rest are fine (mainly because sheik was already confirmed an alter-ego of zelda from the melee release lol).

 

[Luthien]

All you need to spoiler tag is
C) from OoT and WW zelda
A)+D) from TP zelda.

The rest are fine (mainly because sheik was already confirmed an alter-ego of zelda from the melee release lol).

You're kidding, right? I can understand spoiler tagging Twilight Princess, but those other two games are so old it's of very little consequence. But whatever, if it makes you happy...

 

[Your Hero]

Lol I never beat Windwaker, and never played OoT for your information .

I would have beaten windwaker, but I could never get those things you needed in the water to continue (because I have one left and I spent a few hours to get absolutly nothing :|)

Either way i didn't know that there's help in the end of WW so yeaa Other's don't either.

 

[Luthien]

Lol I never beat Windwaker, and never played OoT for your information .

I would have beaten windwaker, but I could never get those things you needed in the water to continue (because I have one left and I spent a few hours to get absolutly nothing :|)

Either way i didn't know that there's help in the end of WW so yeaa Other's don't either.

I appoligise. Strange, you must be one of those weird ethical people who don't use walkthroughs when they get stuck.

Anyway, you honestly didn't know how OoT ended before coming to this Forum? Wow. Didn't think that was possible. But I understand. I'm sorry if I've spoiled anything for you for the first time.

 

[Your Hero]

It's ok lol. It's not like I'm crying

Spoiler

much..

Either way, I know where the thing is, I just can't pick it up from the boat lol.
You probably didn't understand what I meant

 

[Pokec]

This Zelda is not from OOT or TP
Its Super Smash Bros BRAWL Zelda.
Shocking?

Plus, this in no way confirms Sheik at all.
Sakurai simply thought it would be nice to create a design palette that included the old Zelda scheme from Melee. Although as usual it would be taken out of context. Plus, NO veteran had its headthing COMPLETELY re-designed. Why re-design Zelda's simply because a new move might be replacing Sheik? Its her staple in the Smash series.

It Zelda simply has a Twilight Princess design scheme. Meaning she could also have a move that comes from TP much like Link does. Does Light Arrows sound familar? Along with a mulitude of possibilities that doesn't include Sheik?

God....

If Light Arrows ever see the light of day, I'll shoot myself.

In the spleen.

 

[blink777]

God....

If Light Arrows ever see the light of day, I'll shoot myself.

In the spleen.

I never quite understood why you didn't want them. Is it because it would mean Sheik was no longer part of her moveset, or because she sucked at aiming in TP (she wasn't as bad in WW, was she)?

 

[T-major]

it's Brawl Zelda, like many other people have said.

she has her TP look, but that fact that she uses magic from OoT proves thats she's neither one version or the other. it also screws over all the statements made by people who say "OMG!!1 tp ZELDA CANT TURN INTO SHIEK!1!!1!2!" because TP Zelda can't use Din's Fire either...

 

[Iris]

The question is, will a universal Zelda be represented once more by a character that only existed once in the LoZ series?

 

[Luthien]

The question is, will a universal Zelda be represented once more by a character that only existed once in the LoZ series?

But another question may be, will a universal Zelda continue to be represented by techniques she's never used in the first place? We already know the answer to that (please don't start argueing with me, because I already know your logic, and happen to agree with it. I'm playig Devil's Advocate here). And that's what gives way to your question (which, as I'm sure you know, is everyone's question). (I will continue to over-impliment brackets.)

So, the real question is, will Sakurai deem inserting Sheik 'bending the cannon rule', or 'breaking the cannon rule'? Your question seemed a little, erm... hostile towards Sheik, so I turned one of your older posts into this one. Hope you don't mind.

 

[Iris]

No, it's fine. I probably come off biased because I am. However, that's exactly the point I was trying to make (the bend or break one), so thank you.

 

[Stiputation]

I think what we all need is a little aromatherapy.

 

[Luthien]

I think what we all need is a little aromatherapy.

Or an update.

@ Iris: Biased? Not compared to some people I know.

 

[Drake3]

But another question may be, will a universal Zelda continue to be represented by techniques she's never used in the first place?

Sad, but true, turning into Sheik was the only thing true to her character. And Luthien, the word you're looking for is canon. Cannon = Pirates.

 

[Stiputation]

Sad, but true, turning into Sheik was the only thing true to her character. And Luthien, the word you're looking for is canon. Cannon = Pirates.

I don't know. I mean, Light Arrows are true to her character as well. And since the latest Zelda game always gets the most representation, why not throw them in there?

Zelda also had that beam thing she sealed Gannondorf into....And that rapier.

 

[Luthien]

Sad, but true, turning into Sheik was the only thing true to her character. And Luthien, the word you're looking for is canon. Cannon = Pirates.

Thank you for the correction. I suspected something... *shifty eyes*. Besides, pirates are awesome; second to ninjas, which are second to magic weilders.

 

[Ztarfish]

I don't know. I mean, Light Arrows are true to her character as well. And since the latest Zelda game always gets the most representation, why not throw them in there?

Because stupid people insist that Sheik is an invaluable part of Zelda's character, having such a vital role in OoT and no other game since, and wonder 'Whats the point of a Zelda without Sheik? It's like having a loaf of bread without slices.'

 

[Soluble Toast]

I don't know. I mean, Light Arrows are true to her character as well. And since the latest Zelda game always gets the most representation, why not throw them in there?

Zelda also had that beam thing she sealed Gannondorf into....And that rapier.

Exactly.
They're becoming Zelda's signature weapon, I don't see why they can't be implemented SOMEWHERE in her moveset.

I don't agree with light arrows being her final smash though. I don't see Zelda being agile enough with a bow as to create a barrage of arrows.

 

[Iris]

Zelda's always been an archer. Even outside of OoT, where she gave Link light arrows, or WW and TP where she used them herself, she often used a bow in the comics. It'll be really dissapointing if they pass on such a signature move.

 

[Earthbenderjump5]

well, im just saying its starting to look like to me most of her moves are the same.
notice i said most. i've seen just one change. and im glad they at least re-did one of um'.

 

[Greenpoe]

Look at Peach in Melee. Before Melee, had we ever seen Peach use an umbrella (Yes, I know she uses it several games after Melee), or turnips to throw at the enemy? If she has, please correct me, but it looks like they improvised all her special attacks.

Now, look at Zelda in Brawl and in Twilight Princess. Before we "met" Zelda, we met cloaked Zelda. Who says that cloaked Zelda can't throw needles, a chain, or use a little magic to teleport? I'm proposing that when you use her TP outfit, she transforms into cloaked Zelda. When you use the classic Zelda outfit, she'll become Sheik. You might as well say that cloaked Zelda is the "modern" Sheik, since both were used for Zelda to hide her identity and who says that with a change of clothes and shoes (high heels & a dress vs. tighter clothing and running footware) that she can't be faster and more agile? Without magic on her mind, she could focus on moving quickly, countering and evading.

 

[Luthien]

Look at Peach in Melee. Before Melee, had we ever seen Peach use an umbrella (Yes, I know she uses it several games after Melee), or turnips to throw at the enemy? If she has, please correct me, but it looks like they improvised all her special attacks.

Now, look at Zelda in Brawl and in Twilight Princess. Before we "met" Zelda, we met cloaked Zelda. Who says that cloaked Zelda can't throw needles, a chain, or use a little magic to teleport? I'm proposing that when you use her TP outfit, she transforms into cloaked Zelda. When you use the classic Zelda outfit, she'll become Sheik. You might as well say that cloaked Zelda is the "modern" Sheik, since both were used for Zelda to hide her identity and who says that with a change of clothes and shoes (high heels & a dress vs. tighter clothing and running footware) that she can't be faster and more agile? Without magic on her mind, she could focus on moving quickly, countering and evading.

Cloaked Zelda? Sorry, I personally don't mind that idea, but why would Nintedo request Sheik designs if they were just going to use the cloak? As for hiding her identity, the cloak inTP only served as a five second cliff hanger, whereas Sheik in OoT was actually used as a disquise from Ganondorf. Basically, I can't picture Zelda hiding in her room (in reality, her prison) and when Zant/Ganon would walk in, she hides inside her cloak saying "I'm not Zelda! You can't seee meeeee..."

Besides, have you ever tried to fight in a cloak before (like a ninja, anyway)? Pretty limiting on the arm movement. Not to mention tripping issues.

And then there's the whole 'Cloak =/= Sheik arguement'. Don't get me started; that one lasted a while.

Meh, sorry. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Edit: And I have no idea about Peach.

 

[Iris]

Look at Peach in Melee. Before Melee, had we ever seen Peach use an umbrella (Yes, I know she uses it several games after Melee), or turnips to throw at the enemy? If she has, please correct me, but it looks like they improvised all her special attacks.

I think the parasol comes from Mario Party or Sunshine. The turnips? That's from Super Mario Bros 2. They didn't improvise much except for her A moves (Minus FSmash), which are improvised for pretty much every character.

Now, look at Zelda in Brawl and in Twilight Princess. Before we "met" Zelda, we met cloaked Zelda. Who says that cloaked Zelda can't throw needles, a chain, or use a little magic to teleport? I'm proposing that when you use her TP outfit, she transforms into cloaked Zelda. When you use the classic Zelda outfit, she'll become Sheik. You might as well say that cloaked Zelda is the "modern" Sheik, since both were used for Zelda to hide her identity and who says that with a change of clothes and shoes (high heels & a dress vs. tighter clothing and running footware) that she can't be faster and more agile? Without magic on her mind, she could focus on moving quickly, countering and evading.

Because there's nothing supporting that cloaked Zelda could do any of that. Sheik turned out ninja-like because of her tight clothes, hidden face, athletic ability, and stealth, all which were learned abilities in OoT. In TP though, there's no explanation as to why she'd be able to do that. Unlike Sheik, the cloak isn't an alter-ego, it's just a piece of cloth. The difference is that Zelda went under a different identity as Sheik, where as she's not known as "Cloaked Zelda" whenever she's wearing a cloak. If she was, then we'd be calling her Brawl version gown/dress/uncloaked Zelda.

They could always use the cloak instead of Sheik, but it's a lot of trouble considering neither are canon.

 

[HipsterKid]

Yes, yes, this is Brawl Zelda but you do have to admit. Brawl Zelda's influence, attack wise, is OoT Zelda. Sure, some of the attacks might come from other Zelda's (I honestly don't know of one attack that comes from another Zelda) but the focus is on OoT Zelda. That's where magic played more of role in the game. I mean, in Twilight Princess, Zelda had such a small role. I mean, sure she did have light arrows, her rapier, and her possessed form but the third option would be harder to fit.

Of course options 1 and 2 can be implemented but they both have some degree of unoriginality to them. Light Arrows? Pit uses light arrows as well and Link uses regular arrows but they're arrows nonetheless.
Rapier? Another sword. Sure, it'd be the first female sword user but still.

One of the best things about Zelda's moveset is that it's original. I don't know about you all, but I know I wouldn't want something that forces things similar to others to be implemented in.

Also, think about this. Us, as smashboards users, have time to think about tons of different ways to change Zelda up and implement new ideas. However, Sakurai and his team have to meet a deadline. Do they really have the time to be thinking up all these ideas like we are? Or do you think they would rather just still to the original idea of Melee Zelda and keep Sheik, since they supposedly have the design. I don't know, maybe that's just my view. But in my opinion, ideas like separating Sheik and Zelda are just hopeful user-generated ideas that might or might not be implemented.

 

[Drake3]

I don't know. I mean, Light Arrows are true to her character as well. And since the latest Zelda game always gets the most representation, why not throw them in there?

Zelda also had that beam thing she sealed Gannondorf into....And that rapier.

I meant that as far as Melee goes, turning into Sheik was the only canon move that Zelda had. The rest were custom made.

Yes, yes, this is Brawl Zelda but you do have to admit. Brawl Zelda's influence, attack wise, is OoT Zelda.

No it's not. Brawl Zelda is influenced by Melee Zelda who had her moves constructed from the ground up sans Sheik.

Sure, some of the attacks might come from other Zelda's (I honestly don't know of one attack that comes from another Zelda) but the focus is on OoT Zelda. That's where magic played more of role in the game.

...What? Magic plays a role in every Zelda game. In OoT, Zelda opens doors, shoots beams of paralyzing light, and turns into Sheik. In TP she creates arrows out of light and

Spoiler

transfers souls (I guess)

Light Arrows? Pit uses light arrows as well and Link uses regular arrows but they're arrows nonetheless.

Like you said, there are a million sword users, so why is 3 bow users such a big deal? It's only 1 attack and it's not like their entire moveset revolves around the bow.

Rapier? Another sword. Sure, it'd be the first female sword user but still.

That's not a big deal? I think it's a big deal. And her fighting style could be made completely different.

One of the best things about Zelda's moveset is that it's original. I don't know about you all, but I know I wouldn't want something that forces things similar to others to be implemented in.

Yeah it's original. It's so original it's not even hers. If it's going to be Zelda in the game, I'd at least like her to use some of her own magic.

Also, think about this. Us, as smashboards users, have time to think about tons of different ways to change Zelda up and implement new ideas. However, Sakurai and his team have to meet a deadline. Do they really have the time to be thinking up all these ideas like we are? Or do you think they would rather just still to the original idea of Melee Zelda and keep Sheik, since they supposedly have the design. I don't know, maybe that's just my view. But in my opinion, ideas like separating Sheik and Zelda are just hopeful user-generated ideas that might or might not be implemented.

This is my main beef. These people are paid money to be creative. They spend a good couple of their working career years to come up with newer, better ideas. They are professionals who can understand the pro's and con's of changing things as significant as movesets. We are amateurs that do it on the side and just for fun. It's ridiculous to even consider that we came up with an idea that they didn't have months before us.

 

[Your Hero]

Din's fire
Farore's wind
Nayru's love

I know who Din and Nayru is, but Idk who Farore is (atleast I don't remember)

And then there's the sheik transformation, which was the only thing that was actually Zelda's, *although I'm sure it takes some more time to change into the clothes, therefore the magic was made up, then again I could be wrong*.

Then the rest of her attacks have magic that randomly appears, or a kick of some sort.

*I think if they added the light arrows, it would be the only thing that's actually Zelda's.*





*(I only say think because I've played quite a few games, but I've never played OoT, where a lot of her combat style basically comes from).

 

[Link Sharingan]

she from TP Abecause she her TP desing and Sakurai said so

 

[Luthien]

Din's fire
Farore's wind
Nayru's love

I know who Din and Nayru is, but Idk who Farore is (atleast I don't remember)

And then there's the sheik transformation, which was the only thing that was actually Zelda's, *although I'm sure it takes some more time to change into the clothes, therefore the magic was made up, then again I could be wrong*.

Then the rest of her attacks have magic that randomly appears, or a kick of some sort.

*I think if they added the light arrows, it would be the only thing that's actually Zelda's.*





*(I only say think because I've played quite a few games, but I've never played OoT, where a lot of her combat style basically comes from).

Farore is the Goddess of wind/courage respectively. Her power is housed in the Triforce of Courage, and is therefore represented by Link (generally).

Zelda got those specials because they were (kind of) in OoT. Only Link used them instead. The attacks themselves were kind of different, but if Nintendo had given those actual attacks to Zelda, they would have been either cheap (Naryu), actually good (Din), and crappy (Farore). Oh, and transforming into Sheik/Zelda took almost took no time in OoT, save Sheik's rant of Triforce lore.

 

[Your Hero]

I didn't rant about sheik.

 

[The Noob Legend]

TP Zelda.
With OoT connections?

Huh?

 

[HipsterKid]

No it's not. Brawl Zelda is influenced by Melee Zelda who had her moves constructed from the ground up sans Sheik.

What I meant by attacks was her special moves. Of course, that doesn't mean that Farore's Wind, Din's Fire, and Nayru's Love were originally her's, since we all know that they weren't, but all four special moves in fact do come from Melee Zelda. But what game did they get those moves from. I think we both know the answer to that.

...What? Magic plays a role in every Zelda game. In OoT, Zelda opens doors, shoots beams of paralyzing light, and turns into Sheik. In TP she creates arrows out of light and

Spoiler

transfers souls (I guess)

Yes, but just from your list you can see what I was inferring. There was more magic in OoT than in TP. You sort of just proved my point. I'm not sure what you were aiming for there.

Like you said, there are a million sword users, so why is 3 bow users such a big deal? It's only 1 attack and it's not like their entire moveset revolves around the bow.

It's not the fact that she'd be a bow user but the fact that she'd be the second light arrow user. If implemented similarly, not only would that make Pit's unoriginal but it would take some originality of Zelda's moveset. But it's not like I said it was ever a bad thing but I don't think it'd be as good as some other ideas.

That's not a big deal? I think it's a big deal. And her fighting style could be made completely different.

Yes but a sword is a sword and she'd be put into that category where a chunk of Brawl characters stand. Sure it'd be ground breaking to have a female character with a sword but how different can you make a sword user from another? Sure there could be major differences but she'd be too much like one of the many sword users.

Yeah it's original. It's so original it's not even hers. If it's going to be Zelda in the game, I'd at least like her to use some of her own magic.

No, it is actually her magic. At least in Brawl it is. Like you said earlier Brawl Zelda is influenced by Melee Zelda. Sure Melee Zelda's magic wasn't original but in the Smash Bros. Universe, Brawl Zelda's magic is totally hers now. Maybe not in your opinion but in my opinion, that's how it is.

This is my main beef. These people are paid money to be creative. They spend a good couple of their working career years to come up with newer, better ideas. They are professionals who can understand the pro's and con's of changing things as significant as movesets. We are amateurs that do it on the side and just for fun. It's ridiculous to even consider that we came up with an idea that they didn't have months before us.

Yes, but you also need to understand that these people might not have had that much time to think about their character. I mean they could've only had a month to think of the whole moveset. I mean, I know it sounds like a lot but they also have to think about how to implement it, how long it would take to make it, how it would work, timing, etc. We don't actually have to develop these characters.

 

[Drake3]

What I meant by attacks was her special moves. Of course, that doesn't mean that Farore's Wind, Din's Fire, and Nayru's Love were originally her's, since we all know that they weren't, but all four special moves in fact do come from Melee Zelda. But what game did they get those moves from. I think we both know the answer to that.

The names are derived from OoT, the skills themselves are not. I honestly believe that Sakurai made a very stupid mistake by naming them after the OoT skills.

Yes, but just from your list you can see what I was inferring. There was more magic in OoT than in TP. You sort of just proved my point. I'm not sure what you were aiming for there.

That's not the point I was trying to make. They have different styles and different methods but they both have equal amounts of magic. If you want to be picky I could always bring up how possessed Zelda used all of those spells couldn't I? I just don't see how you can claim that "there's more magic in OoT than in TP" unless you added up every paranormal occurrence or something farfetched like that.

It's not the fact that she'd be a bow user but the fact that she'd be the second light arrow user. If implemented similarly, not only would that make Pit's unoriginal but it would take some originality of Zelda's moveset. But it's not like I said it was ever a bad thing but I don't think it'd be as good as some other ideas.

Pit's weapon of choice is a bow. Zelda's weapon of choice is also a bow. Unfortunately they both fire light arrows as their signature ability. It's not Brawl that's making these unoriginal, it was how they were designed. If Brawl stayed true to the characters then they'd be similar, which I think is a small price to pay in order to be canon, but I see no reason why they can't alter Zelda's bow to fire some other kind of magical arrow. Maybe ice.

Yes but a sword is a sword and she'd be put into that category where a chunk of Brawl characters stand. Sure it'd be ground breaking to have a female character with a sword but how different can you make a sword user from another? Sure there could be major differences but she'd be too much like one of the many sword users.

A female magic sword user? Haven't seen many of those before.

No, it is actually her magic. At least in Brawl it is. Like you said earlier Brawl Zelda is influenced by Melee Zelda. Sure Melee Zelda's magic wasn't original but in the Smash Bros. Universe, Brawl Zelda's magic is totally hers now. Maybe not in your opinion but in my opinion, that's how it is.

I'm pretty sure you know what I was referring to.

Yes, but you also need to understand that these people might not have had that much time to think about their character. I mean they could've only had a month to think of the whole moveset. I mean, I know it sounds like a lot but they also have to think about how to implement it, how long it would take to make it, how it would work, timing, etc. We don't actually have to develop these characters.

The fraction of the team dedicated to characters has had over 2 years of development time. Melee turned out fine when it was rushed, and this game has already been delayed. You're right, we don't develop these characters. They do. They are professionals.

You've gone back to the Sheik side haven't you? I notice you don't want her to have her rapier or bow, so you must want the ninja again.

 

[Stiputation]

What I meant by attacks was her special moves. Of course, that doesn't mean that Farore's Wind, Din's Fire, and Nayru's Love were originally her's, since we all know that they weren't, but all four special moves in fact do come from Melee Zelda. But what game did they get those moves from. I think we both know the answer to that..

Do you honestly expect, not one TP move to be included in Zelda's moveset? Lets look at it logically, Zelda having a fullout OOT moveset makes about as sense as a box of rocks. Sure, it may be Brawl Zelda, but Brawl is currently representing TP at the moment. Even if Zelda is keeping her SOME of her OOT attacks, I certainly wouldn't expect an ENTIRE moveset change, but instead something that didn't quite work in Melee for Zelda.

Can you guess what that is?

Her Sheik transformation. Like I've been blabbing about for the past month, an all OOT Zelda moveset would just be outrageous. Like you've pointed out, if they haven't had much time, how would they be able to go back and tweak a WHOLE playing style? It would much rather be easier to just implement a new move and a Final Smash thats from TP.

It's not the fact that she'd be a bow user but the fact that she'd be the second light arrow user. If implemented similarly, not only would that make Pit's unoriginal but it would take some originality of Zelda's moveset. But it's not like I said it was ever a bad thing but I don't think it'd be as good as some other ideas...

I seriously don't think it would be that hard to make Zelda's arrows that different from Pits. For one, Pit has Blue light arrows. Zelda's would be gold. Zelda's could have a spiffy design on them and she could fire them like a crossbow, you wouldn't be able to aim them and they wouldn't be charable. Now, I'm not even one of the designers and I'm able to think about five things right off the bat. Think about it, designers get PAID to think about these types of differences, I was only able to think of five without getting paid, imagine how many they could come up with. 8D

Yes, but you also need to understand that these people might not have had that much time to think about their character. I mean they could've only had a month to think of the whole moveset. I mean, I know it sounds like a lot but they also have to think about how to implement it, how long it would take to make it, how it would work, timing, etc. We don't actually have to develop these characters.

Hence the fact you think they have time to develop TWO? With a new physics engine and the terrible balancing system that was used in Melee? As its been stated, that balancing system will NEVER work regardless of buff and nerfs, I think the designers would have seen that.

It.just.doesn't.work.