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This thread is pure salt, just leave it alone. I have ascended to a higher plane of existence and havent lost against a ganon in a good while

Is Gannondorf too powerful for his speed?


  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

dankDadi

Smash Rookie
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Mar 9, 2019
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Masterhero Succaguy did an oopsie
 
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Coolboy

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i recently picked up Ganondorf just for the lulz.. and i am a noob with him but i still get many kills or kill opponents early xD i can confirm that you don't have to be a expert to play him
 

GhostYB

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
101
He's easy to counter if you pick the right character.

Bait him and use projectiles wisely.
 

King9999

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This thread sounds like salt to me. Ganon is strong, yes, but he's not invincible.
 

Tsant

Smash Rookie
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Jan 23, 2019
Messages
9
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Gan can be kinda **** tbh fam. I love the guy, I really do, but the endlag tacked onto so many of his moves can be exploited to devastating effects. I have people eat USmashes because they run right into them - what the hell else do you people think he's going to do? Ganon's a bait and punish character. If you rush him without putting a modicum of thought into your actions, you're gonna get clapped.
His early KO power is unrivaled, but light combo-centric characters like Puff and the Space Animals are an absolute nightmare to Ganondorfs if the person playing them is skilled enough. (As I've seen someone put it, more or less "Don't like getting killed at 40% by Ganondorf? Well, I don't like getting killed from 0% by stairways from Falco!") As well as zoners. And swordies. Belmonts. SNAKES.

tl;dr get gud lol. If Fsmash spamming Dorf "mains" on QuickPlay give you trouble, good luck taking on someone who can play a proper neutral game lmao
 

Gerbs

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
14
Ganondorf is easy pickup like and like a lot of the other heavy hitters you only have to land a few satisfying hits and they die. However as it's been said with the right counter play he can be pretty effectively curbed. I've been maining him since Melee and that is frequently the case, you're scary until someone finds a way around it since there's plenty of options that he doesn't have much to do against. Characters with better zoning options, strong projectile games, etc.
 

USAnyan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
60
The main source of agony for me really just is more how ridiculously common he is than anything else ,even if I beat him 80-90% of the time doesn’t mean he’s any more fun to fight each time-neither is dying at 50% or less.

Honestly after a while you sorta just go on autopilot and bait him into doing dash attack/side b/down b,(which every qp Gannon loves doing) barelyyyy slide out of the way and do whatever giant punish you want, really.

Tossing him offstage is basically his downfall, really.The tiniest bop makes him to far to recover.
 

King9999

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The main source of agony for me really just is more how ridiculously common he is
Pretty wild that someone can say this about Ganon now. In Smash 4 and Brawl, you were lucky to encounter a Ganon online.
 

MalanoMan

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(As I've seen someone put it, more or less "Don't like getting killed at 40% by Ganondorf? Well, I don't like getting killed from 0% by stairways from Falco!")
Whats a "stairway from Falco"?
 

Tsant

Smash Rookie
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Whats a "stairway from Falco"?
I meant that dumb ladder combo he can do. My bad.
I was really really really roughly paraphrasing this tweet:
"You don't like dying at 40% to FSmashes (which are fairly easy to avoid)? I didn't like dying at 0% to ladders!"
The point still stands, it's not the hardest task in the world to avoid his laggy *** smashes, which is what most people who think Gan is OP seem to be complaining about.

EDIT: I'm just really really adamant that the last thing he needs is a nerf. His frame data, mobility, recovery etc are mostly better than they've ever been but he's a hard mid at best, no matter how spectacular of a showing he's made lately. Now that he has a chance endlag buffs and a fix to UpB are more needed than ever.
The crowd of children chanting about how "broken" he is in spite of the above mentioned weaknesses doesn't help. Doesn't help them improve their game, doesn't help Dorf.
 
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MalanoMan

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You're good! I dont even know what you mean by "ladder combo" though. I tried to find some examples on youtube, but the only videos titled "falco ladder combo" are from Sm4sh. Is the combo just about the same from game to game?
 

Tsant

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You're good! I dont even know what you mean by "ladder combo" though. I tried to find some examples on youtube, but the only videos titled "falco ladder combo" are from Sm4sh. Is the combo just about the same from game to game?
I hear he has a decent Uair ladder in ult or something.
Falco-Dorf isn't the worst matchup out there for Gan but with his size and low airspeed it's a challenge. Admittedly I don't know enough about Falco or the MU itself to comment much further.
 
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Golden Icarus

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I will admit, he’s a pain in the ass. I don’t wanna call him overpowered, as I’m aware that he has plenty of weaknesses and bad matchups. If I’m playing as zoners, like Young Link or Mega Man, or even Wolf or Mario who only have a couple of keep away tools, then I’ll be fine. He’s still intimidating as hell, but he’s manageable.

My real problem with Ganon is that literally 30% of the time I play Elite Smash, I’m gonna be fighting him. I don’t even feel like that’s an exaggeration. It’s insane. Like there are 75 characters and I am 100% sure that I will see about 2-4 Ganons every 10 people I play. It gets old. In fact, I was playing last night for a bit, did exactly 14 battles against 14 unique players and 7 of them were Ganon. SEVEN. And like I said, if I’m not playing a competent zoning character, it isn’t a fun match.
 

Boartobewild

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The funny thing is, hardly any of Ganon's moves were buffed frame data wise, at least when startup is concerned, which is by far the most important aspect of any move. Yes he received a myriad of ending lag reductions but so did every other character and in most cases they were buffed even more. (Hell he even received some notable nerfs that were entirely undeserved and not necassary!)

You wanna know what the biggest reason is as to why Ganon is so much more successful in Ultimate? It's the fact that the new meta and place style benefits him a lot more than any other character. Namely defensive options like shield and dodges were nerfed so much to a point, where the meta shifted from defensive counter play to oppresive rush/beatdown!

Sm4sh's Meta consisted of baiting other characters into attacking first either via dash dancing, projectile spamming or hit and run tactics and than punishing with Oos options, which Ganon absolutely despised going up against to the point it was a miracle if you managed to win.
Now the (general) strategy is much more focussed on getting in your opponents face and bombarding him with an endless barrage of attacks until either his shield breaks, his dodges become stale or you just combo him offstage/screen! Which means much more opportunities for Ganon to teach whatever poor soul decided to push his luck against him their proper place ^-^
 

Diddy Kong

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This thread sounds like salt to me. Ganon is strong, yes, but he's not invincible.
That's a huge lie. Cause with the Triforce of Power, he can only be killed off with the Master Sword.
 

link2702

Smash Champion
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Ganon is still low tier lol.

His disadvantages from the past are all still there, just some slightly harder to exploit, but make no mistake he still has em.

Projectile characters are still his nightmare, he still gets comboed to hell and back by rush downs, and he still has a lot of unsafe moves. And he (along with falcon) still can get screwed by a decent opponent when recovering if they’re good at wall techs, as their up specials still put them in the perfect position to get gimped if they grab someone who’s good at teching.

Really just a few moves have become “slightly” safer, and his reward for getting a good read is way better, which is exactly how it should be. If anything ganon needs more buffs though, he needs his old ganoncide back, he needs to have a safer recovery (at least don’t give opponents a guaranteed way to gimp him for landing the move, make wall techs off it impossible)
 
D

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Sounds like you just picked up a mean case of "bad at the game" fever.
 

S_B

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If Fsmash spamming Dorf "mains" on QuickPlay give you trouble, good luck taking on someone who can play a proper neutral game lmao
Thread's over, folks. Nothing more to see here.

I don't even play Ganondorf but I'm happy to see him not be bottom tier garbage this game. Nice to see heavies not be guaranteed crap against speedsters like Fox and Sheik for a change.
 

Coolboy

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i am not even the best nor do i consider myself a pro player..but even i can beat Ganondorf alot easier with certain characters especially Zelda, shes great against him and funny thing is..i can beat him without having to leave the stage since Zelda is better on stage then off stage haha
 

Shira907

Smash Rookie
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Ganon is still low tier lol.

His disadvantages from the past are all still there, just some slightly harder to exploit, but make no mistake he still has em.

Projectile characters are still his nightmare, he still gets comboed to hell and back by rush downs, and he still has a lot of unsafe moves. And he (along with falcon) still can get screwed by a decent opponent when recovering if they’re good at wall techs, as their up specials still put them in the perfect position to get gimped if they grab someone who’s good at teching.

Really just a few moves have become “slightly” safer, and his reward for getting a good read is way better, which is exactly how it should be. If anything ganon needs more buffs though, he needs his old ganoncide back, he needs to have a safer recovery (at least don’t give opponents a guaranteed way to gimp him for landing the move, make wall techs off it impossible)
M2k seems to disagree with you about Ganon being low tier.
 

Shira907

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M2K also thinks Bayonetta is better than Cloud, the Belmonts are high tier, and that D3 is bottom 15. Ganondorf isn’t low tier though. Mid tier at worst, low high tier at best.
Well its early on in the meta. Understandable that top players going to widely disagree with one another and have varying opinions on how good particular characters are. I don't think anything is really concrete atm (atleast mostly).
 

$.A.F.

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Well its early on in the meta. Understandable that top players going to widely disagree with one another and have varying opinions on how good particular characters are. I don't think anything is really concrete atm (atleast mostly).
He is the only top or even mid level player to share these opinions. Also, objective data can disprove these claims as well as theory craft even. Dedede has achieved consistently great results across players like Zaki, Peli, and Big D hitting top 8 at major tournaments. Bayonetta has been nerfed far more than Cloud and is nowhere close to him in viability. Cloud basically just has 15 second limit and nair for any major nerfs. He still has up air juggles [the nerfs balance out now that you only have one air dodge in Ultimate], Amazing range, a great matchup spread, very safe moves, great dash speed, and an okay projectile, Hot take though: I believe Bayo IS actually a [lower] mid tier. The belmonts have achieved mediocre results, have a horrible recovery without the neutral to back it up, bad disadvantage, and meh frame data. Also you used m2k's opinion as evidence in your previous statement and then backed up and said that it's too early for top players to have correct perceptions of characters.
 

Shira907

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He is the only top or even mid level player to share these opinions. Also, objective data can disprove these claims as well as theory craft even. Dedede has achieved consistently great results across players like Zaki, Peli, and Big D hitting top 8 at major tournaments. Bayonetta has been nerfed far more than Cloud and is nowhere close to him in viability. Cloud basically just has 15 second limit and nair for any major nerfs. He still has up air juggles [the nerfs balance out now that you only have one air dodge in Ultimate], Amazing range, a great matchup spread, very safe moves, great dash speed, and an okay projectile, Hot take though: I believe Bayo IS actually a [lower] mid tier. The belmonts have achieved mediocre results, have a horrible recovery without the neutral to back it up, bad disadvantage, and meh frame data. Also you used m2k's opinion as evidence in your previous statement and then backed up and said that it's too early for top players to have correct perceptions of characters.
Incorrect, I never at all used his opinion as evidence against him. Why are you straw-manning me? I never once said that M2k's opinions were fact or that he was wrong because m2k said this. I'm not even defending m2k or his opinion. I just thought it was a humorous observation since he thinks highly of ganon and the other guy think's he low tier trash. Most top players agree Ganon is definitely not low tier though and it seems you have also reached this consensus. So why are you going after me when its the other guy you have a disagreement with? You clearly misunderstood the meaning of my comment and why I made it in the first place.
 
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$.A.F.

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Incorrect, I never at all used his opinion as evidence against him. Why are you straw-manning me? I never once said that M2k's opinions were fact or that he was wrong because m2k said this. I'm not even defending m2k or his opinion. I just thought it was a humorous observation since he thinks highly of ganon and the other guy think's he low tier trash. Most top players agree Ganon is definitely not low tier though and it seems you have also reached this consensus. So why are you going after me when its the other guy you have a disagreement with? You clearly misunderstood the meaning of my comment and why I made it in the first place.
I apologize but be realistic, responding to a comment with “but top player #400 says...” usually implies that you’re agreeing with them and citing them as counter evidence. You then further forced upon yourself this trope by defending M2Ks extremely bad takes in your next post and not clarifying whatsoever.
 

Shira907

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I apologize but be realistic, responding to a comment with “but top player #400 says...” usually implies that you’re agreeing with them and citing them as counter evidence. You then further forced upon yourself this trope by defending M2Ks extremely bad takes in your next post and not clarifying whatsoever.
I was just saying in that second post that it's too early to say that all the characters placements are objective. I don't even agree with m2k putting Ganon high tier. Like I said I just thought it was humorous how one person thought highly of the character while the other thought he was garbage. It was to show how widely opinionated the meta still is and how many characters players (not even just top players) disagree with one another in terms of placement. Im well aware anyone can use their favorite top player as an excuse for a certain placement of the character. That was not the intention of why I made that post. I don't think that's a good argument for why a character is good. I'm well aware.
 
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Tsant

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M2K also said that Ganon's Fsmash is safe on shield. I think we can disregard his opinions on the man from here on out.
Also, "Ganon Tier Containment Thread" when. All I have to offer is "solid mid, both a lot better than people think he is and not as good as people think he is".
 

Xquirtle

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M2K also said that Ganon's Fsmash is safe on shield. I think we can disregard his opinions on the man from here on out.
Also, "Ganon Tier Containment Thread" when. All I have to offer is "solid mid, both a lot better than people think he is and not as good as people think he is".
F smash is definitely safe on shield if its slightly spaced and they don't have something like Lucina nair OOS.
 
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