Third Party Discussions only

[_R@bid_]

I agree that Bomberman or Belmont would be better Konami reps, and also that Snake's appearance completely removes that possibility. It sucks, since I like both, and now Snake too after playing him in Smash.
IMO the best third party possibility is Mega Man, since he's so important to Nintendo history and very popular. While Namco is developing the game, they don't seem to have any power roster wise, and support for their characters is weaker than Mega. People in general are kinda divided or indifferent.
I just wish Ameratasu had a chance. If Nintendo can do a million Mario games without changing much, then why can't Okami get more games?

 

[volbound1700]

I am curious, I am wondering why most people are righting off the possibility that Smash couldn't have multiple characters from a single third party. If Sakurai wants Simon Belmont with Snake, I don't see the hold up if Konami is fine with it.

Sega and Namco (although not highly likey) do have a chance of getting a second rep because of their relationships with Nintendo and/or Smash.

I generally agree with the limited roster but I won't laugh at other people who throw curveball ideas out there.

 

[LaniusShrike]

I feel like the main thing for me is that it seems unlikely that a single third-party company would get more than one new representative in at a time... I'm holding out hope that we'll get another Konami character this time around.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Speaking of Hudson characters now owned by Konami.....Professor Higgins and Bonk. They would be great Assist Trophies.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Hah, yeah. They'd be a nice throwback.

@3B, it's kind of a pity that the Namco x Capcom game that has already been made wasn't a fighter. It would've been pretty awesome.

At this point, I kind of want to see a Namco x Konami fighter! There are tons of characters from both that I like.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Kind of want to see another multi company crossover with a story similar to Project X Zone. (It could be an RPG similar to Tales of Symphonia or something) The companies could be Nintendo, Konami, SEGA, Namco, and Capcom.

Konami would not have an excuse if they ignored Bomberman in a crossover like that.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Holy crap, I've never seen Project X Zone. That's epic...
Except that it's another tactical RPG. Dang, what a waste of characters.

I think I'd want to see a crossover game like Kingdom Hearts. Essentially, travel world to world recruiting different Franchise heroes... I love action RPGs. I'd want to play practically any crossover Action RPG for any company.

I'm kind of surprised Nintendo hasn't tried something sort of like that... it's pretty much what I want the Smash Bros. Adventure mode to be.

 

[_R@bid_]

Action RPGs are the best. A crossover one would be FANTASTIC. And it would be pretty fitting for SSE2.

 

[LaniusShrike]

If Nintendo could manage to create a crossover where you could play Mario, Link, Kirby, and Samus and have it actually control like the characters normally do but you could play on any of the characters' homeworlds it would be epic. I would love to snipe goombas with a bow-and-arrow and jump on Redeads' heads. Also, Kirby sucking in a Metroid and getting its power? Bwa ha ha.

I feel like pretty much any company could do this as long as they don't take themselves too seriously. If I could play as Pac-man or Klonoa and visit the SoulCalibur universe I would be so, so happy.

 

[3Bismyname]

yeah im excited for Project X Zone. preordered that as soon as i heard about it. esp cause i never got my hands on Namco X Capcom. while i am excited i def would've preferred a fighter. but really only from Namco and Capcom cause i think 3 companies in a fighter like that would be pretty awkward. my only problem with the game is that theres a lot of characters i dont recognize, mostly on the Sega side and it kinda bugged me that Soul Calibur characters arent in it for some reason. but hey Kite and Blackrose r in it

 

[Robert of Normandy]

ur right. wish they'd do more with that IP. they also own Frogger but no one ever seems to mention that

That's because Konami is....well...Konami.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I love how Frogger got a new game on the 3DS but Konami doesn't let Bomberman have his chance. (His game was already partially built. They COULD have finished and polished the 3DS Bomberman also.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I love how Frogger got a new game on the 3DS but Konami doesn't let Bomberman have his chance. (His game was already partially built. They COULD have finished and polished the 3DS Bomberman also.

I refer you to my previous post.

 

[Deleted member]

Huh. I don't have a 3DS, but it looks like the reviews are fairly positive and gameplay sounds interesting.

Though... the name makes me think I'd be laughing the entire time. Now I kind of want to see Namco make a dark and edgy Pac-Man RPG. I'd... look up reviews for it, at least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises
So yeah, according to the list, Final Fantasy is the best-selling third party franchise that could reasonably have a Smash character. Then, Dragon Quest. Then... Pac-Man's there and then Street Fighter (though Sakurai doesn't want characters from fighters).

A Square-Enix character seems like it'd be fairly reasonable.

I wish we could get a Square Enix character, but chances are we won't. Slime is going to be rejected by Sakurai because "lol no arms and legs", despite being able to overcome those limitations and I don't see Sakurai becoming interested in a Final Fantasy rep. As much as people don't like to hear this, Geno is our only option and with him being as unimportant as he is, he's extremely unlikely.

Speaking of Konami, do you guys feel that Snake still deserves a spot in Smash even though it seems like Kojima has been neglecting the Wii U? I mean... no MGS Collection, no Revengeance (that's Platinum, but still), no MGS 5... It feels a bit weird to prominently feature him in the game when the mainline Metal Gears are skipping the platform.

When it comes to deserving, we should look at more than just if they have a large Nintendo history. Snake might be generally associated with Sony, but his franchise revolutionized the stealth genre and that is very important and he is an icon. While we haven't heard anyone about importance in third-parties playing a role, it's safe to say that I don't think Snake would have gotten in if he wasn't iconic.

Bayonetta's lack of importance is exactly why I feel she will not be in next Smash (and I am serious when I say I will bet $50 against her showing up). To a lesser extend, this could also be argued towards a Tales rep given that the franchise is niche outside of Japan, but at least interest from Namco gives one a shot.

Snake definitely is the oddball since his games do not support Nintendo but rather are more a Sony supporting series. I would say that Simon Belmont would be a better rep from Konami.

Megaman, Pac-ManBomberman, Sonic, and Professor Layton should all be on everyone's third party list at least.

Fixed. Those four are probably the best third-party choices for the game.

It's a shame though, because all Konami has done with him since fully absorbing Hudson is cancel his upcoming games. I mean, he wasn't as popular as he used to be, but he still had a decent amount of popularity, especially in Japan. His future really doesn't look good, even worse than Mega Man's. Nintendo should've bought Hudson when they were looking for a buyer back in the day, they already collaborated a lot.

I agree with volbound in that Simon (or Bomberman), would be better Konami reps for a Nintendo-oriented crossover, but Snake's not going anywhere, and another Konami series being added is unlikely, so now it's just wishful thinking I guess. Though personally I don't have a problem with Snake.

At least Capcom still acknowledge Mega Man's existence, even if the past few years has been turbulent and at least the "hiatus" (if we can even call it due to Rock Man Xover existing) can be attributed to Mega Man's over-saturation. It's for this reason why I expect Mega Man to return to making quality games within the next 5-10 years because I think the situation with him and Capcom has more to do with Capcom trying to figure out where to take the games next rather than "killing the franchise".

Unfortunately, the same can't be said for Bomberman. Bomberman doesn't even get re-releases nowadays. It's like, Konami bought Hudson Soft so that the IP can rot and die in obscurity. It's really sad to see the franchise go down like this with no hopes of revival. The sad truth that fans have to all face is that he is likely dead and will never have a shot of getting into Smash. Too bad as I would prefer to see Bomberman get in over Snake (and I really want to see Snake back).

I am curious, I am wondering why most people are righting off the possibility that Smash couldn't have multiple characters from a single third party. If Sakurai wants Simon Belmont with Snake, I don't see the hold up if Konami is fine with it.

Sega and Namco (although not highly likey) do have a chance of getting a second rep because of their relationships with Nintendo and/or Smash.

I generally agree with the limited roster but I won't laugh at other people who throw curveball ideas out there.

The issue has to do with trying to avoid adding too many third-parties. I think if Konami and/or Sega got two reps and Capcom/Namco/Level-5/Square Enix got one, people would blame Sakurai for favorism and would cause more dissenters than fans of third-parties.

 

[LaniusShrike]

I'm not really sure the Tales games should be considered niche outside of Japan... "In the United States, over 100 thousand copies were sold during the first two weeks" (wikipedia).

Poor Bomberman. He'd be a lot of fun, tossin' and kicking bombs as if they were nothing, explosions everywhere...

Pretty soon, Smash will have to start including more third party characters to raise hype. At a certain point, Smash will run out of big name Nintendo characters to bring in to raise interest. Besides, I personally don't really feel like the third party characters dilute the Nintendo brand at all... they just represent the rich heritage of Nintendo as a console maker and a home for many different characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty soon, Smash will have to start including more third party characters to raise hype. At a certain point, Smash will run out of big name Nintendo characters to bring in to raise interest. Besides, I personally don't really feel like the third party characters dilute the Nintendo brand at all... they just represent the rich heritage of Nintendo as a console maker and a home for many different characters.

I don't think that will ever happen, considering Sakurai's very strong stance on avoiding adding too many third-parties, especially with the intense difficulty of fitting third-parties and dealing with messy licensing issues. We will sooner see Smash go into a long (if not permanent) hiatus than for each installment to become increasingly dependent on third-parties (and too many third-parties will hurt sales of the game).

 

[greenluigiman2]

Those four are probably the best third-party choices for the game.

Bomberman's cool and all, but Pac-Man is a better choice IMO. Not only because he "deserves" it more for being such an iconic character, but also because he actually has a lot more potential than Bomberman.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

but also because he actually has a lot more potential than Bomberman.

O RLY?

 

[_R@bid_]

Bomberman's cool and all, but Pac-Man is a better choice IMO. Not only because he "deserves" it more for being such an iconic character, but also because he actually has a lot more potential than Bomberman.

I'd like to see the explanation for this one.

 

[LaniusShrike]

I don't think that will ever happen, considering Sakurai's very strong stance on avoiding adding too many third-parties, especially with the intense difficulty of fitting third-parties and dealing with messy licensing issues. We will sooner see Smash go into a long (if not permanent) hiatus than for each installment to become increasingly dependent on third-parties (and too many third-parties will hurt sales of the game).

I honestly think you'd have to have quite a few third-party characters before the average consumer stops buying the game as long as they're characters featured on Nintendo platforms.

But yeah, I'm sure licensing gets complicated. I feel like Sakurai will stop helming the series rather soon, who knows what kind of direction the game will take after that. Even if they slow down how many characters they're adding in, people will probably still purchase the new games (just not as frequently). Honestly, I really wish Smash games would come out more frequently... I'd buy them all even if they came out twice as often.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I'm a Pac-Man fan and even I know he doesn't have as much potential as Bomberman.

I've played nearly all the games in Bomberman's franchise and Pac-Man's. I can safely say that Bomberman has a lot more going for him then tossing bombs. It also helps that he has many types of bombs. Bombs that freeze enemies, bombs that create beams of light, bombs that create freakin black holes, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

Bomberman's cool and all, but Pac-Man is a better choice IMO. Not only because he "deserves" it more for being such an iconic character, but also because he actually has a lot more potential than Bomberman.

Honestly, if his super iconic status made him so deserving, how come Sakurai didn't see a need for him to get him into Brawl? Don't you think that it should have been enough for Sakurai to prioritize Pac-Man over Sonic or at least make a third spot reserved for him? Strip away the Namco Bandai factor (which is debatable at best and a flimsy argument at worst) and it's pretty much all he has going for him.

 

[greenluigiman2]

I'm a Pac-Man fan and even I know he doesn't have as much potential as Bomberman.

Look at the number and variety of games Pac-Man has appeared in, I could come up with numerous movesets for him and have all of them make sense. Bomberman on the other hand is extremely straightforward, he uses bombs, and if he doesn't use bombs he's not Bomberman. Olimar is pretty much a one trick pony as well, all he can do is use Pikmin, the difference is that Pikmin are unique, bombs are a dime a dozen.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Look at the number and variety of games Pac-Man has appeared in, I could come up with numerous movesets for him and have all of them make sense. Bomberman on the other hand is extremely straightforward, he uses bombs, and if he doesn't use bombs he's not Bomberman. Olimar is pretty much a one trick pony as well, all he can do is use Pikmin, the difference is that Pikmin are unique, bombs are a dime a dozen.

You haven't actually played Bomberman or Pikmin have you?

 

[greenluigiman2]

You haven't actually played Bomberman or Pikmin have you?

Of course I have. I'm obviously exaggerating to get a point across. But my point still stands, Pac-Man, I feel, is just the better choice.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Of course I have. I'm obviously exaggerating to get a point across. But my point still stands, Pac-Man, I feel, is just the better choice.

Don't use exaggerations in your arguments...

That will come to bite you in the but later...

 

[greenluigiman2]

Don't use exaggerations in your arguments...

That will come to bite you in the but later...

Am I wrong though? Does Bomberman not use bombs? Is Bomberman's entire schtick not using bombs?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Am I wrong though? Does Bomberman not use bombs? Is Bomberman's entire schtick not using bombs?

Isn't Pac-man's entire schtick eating pellets?

Isn't Mario's entire schtick jumping?

Do not oversimplify.

Regardless, the argument was that Pac-man had more potential than Bomberman, when actually he has just as much, if not more moveset potential than Pac-Man.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Swampsaur beat me to it.

Might as well mention that Bomberman has a few attacks in some of his games that don't require bombs. He's not as limited as you think Greenluigiman2.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Look at the number and variety of games Pac-Man has appeared in, I could come up with numerous movesets for him and have all of them make sense. Bomberman on the other hand is extremely straightforward, he uses bombs, and if he doesn't use bombs he's not Bomberman. Olimar is pretty much a one trick pony as well, all he can do is use Pikmin, the difference is that Pikmin are unique, bombs are a dime a dozen.

Bomber man having a moveset with bombs >>> any moveset you can think of for pacman.

Just because his moveset is obvious doesn't mean it would suck.

 

[greenluigiman2]

Isn't Pac-man's entire schtick eating pellets?

Isn't Mario's entire schtick jumping?

Do not oversimplify.

That comparison doesn't work. Mario and Pac-Man have evolved since their early arcade days. Mario's new schtick is pretty much doing everything from playing Tennis to kart racing, and in the Pac-Man World games dot munching is pretty much the same as Mario collecting coins and Sonic collecting rings.

Now, I'm sure you'll take what I said and use it to say that Bomberman has evolved as well... and he has somewhat, but not in the way Pac-Man has.

Regardless, the argument was that Pac-man had more potential than Bomberman, when actually he has just as much, if not more moveset potential than Pac-Man.

Disagree, but it's alright because opinions are opinions.

Bomber man having a moveset with bombs >>> any moveset you can think of for pacman.

If you want to think that...

Just because his moveset is obvious doesn't mean it would suck.

Did I ever say it would suck? No I didn't

 

[HURRICANE REV]

You know, I would REALLLY Love to see Kat, from Gravity Rush, in the next Smash Bros. After playing Gravity Rush and especially her appearance in Playstation All Stars, I would definitely support her to be in SSB4! She would be a great addition to the cast.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Too bad Kat is Sony first party.

 

[HURRICANE REV]

Yeah, that's the down side to it I guess. But I still think it is "sort of" possible that she could be in it. I mean, if there is enough support for it, then surely they would be ok with it. There really needs to be a support thread for the gravity queen! lol

EDIT: ok, maybe it is very unlikely that she will be in it. But she would have been a great character to add

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

...I still want Lloyd Irving over Pac-Man. Pac-Man SUCKS

 

[8-peacock-8]

I'm still supporting Pac-Man. So suck it Scoliosis!

Yeah, that's the down side to it I guess. But I still think it is "sort of" possible that she could be in it. I mean, if there is enough support for it, then surely they would be ok with it. There really needs to be a support thread for the gravity queen! lol

EDIT: ok, maybe it is very unlikely that she will be in it. But she would have been a great character to add

Good thing fan games exist.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Is there some reason that people assume Snake is coming back?

I always felt like Snake would be taken out of SSB4. It was awesome having him around last game but I just never saw him sticking around like I could Sonic.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Is there some reason that people assume Snake is coming back?

Is there some reason people assume Snake will be cut? What reason besides subjective opinions about whether or not he "fits" in Smash seem to be the only reason people are predicting he'll be gone.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I mean I thought he fit once actually playing him. I just felt like he might've been a one off surprise appearance to try to get some of the ''die hard hardcore" gamers to pick up something as ''silly looking" as Smash.

 

[_R@bid_]

I mean I thought he fit once actually playing him. I just felt like he might've been a one off surprise appearance to try to get some of the ''die hard hardcore" gamers to pick up something as ''silly looking" as Smash.

Snake was put in as a favor to a friend by Sakurai. It'd would be a **** move on Sakurai's part if he took out the character his friend had begged him since melee to put in.