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"but that kind of tips the scales a bit."
Certainly doesn't change the fact that i'm excited about paper mario as a character. He's obviously unique, so no one could use the clone argument, and i love the series so i would probably prefer him to actual mario."but that kind of tips the scales a bit."
I tough it implied there was a limit.
Because there's no limit.
That's just why I tough you said that he wouldn't be because of this limit.
Tough, it seems I misunderstood so, sorry about that
Just for the design, I already like him more than mario.
About ch6 I thought I would tell you something, but I'll put it in the spoiler just in case you want to find it out on your own...Well, I have just beat ch7 and now, I have lots of things to say.
But first little replies since you're kind to give some
It doesn't matter. The number of rep is not the priority in Sakurai's decision and we have proof of this already (like 4 fe rep and btw, we are at 7 rep and he would be the 8th, not the 9th, but getting 7 is a proof in itself).
What really takes priority is first uniqueness, moveset creation proccess, contribution to general gameplay, the general playstyle interpretation procces, how appealing it is for people to buy the game etc... It has been said several time that you could make a general playstyle and make a moveset of him that would be very unique in gameplay. And the artstyle makes him very appealing imo.
But not putting him JUST because there's 7 mario rep doesn't make sense. Sorry, but that's how it is.
Problem: it's not going to happen since the stage has to be a mario rep. It's a starter so if it was own series, he would be in the starting roster and that's not true. So, it can only rep mario.
HOWEVER,
Again, it doesn't matter what he reps. This is only the label on the package, not the package itself.
Like, what matters the most is that when anyone would play as him, it has to feel different than mario. Do I really need to explain how easy it is? Check the movesets in the OP if you needed one tough. Anyway, the icon would not tell the contents and people will clearly realise that he's not like mario, but completely different.
Same goes for the stage and everything. I can say that We velieve in you mario is a mario music, but it's still the same music.
Do you see here? mario rep does no restrictions and it's only details.
Tough, let me tell you my opinion before the demo: I felt he was more suited to get his icon. Even if it doesn't matter, dude, just play one game and that even includes sticker star even if I hate it ad you will clearly realise that it's not the usual mario and it's not even strongly related and it seems to have tiny relations.
Tale the visual design, just that I'm done. Now, add animations, music design, mechanics, text quality and basically, most of the games. It's so different that it would even make sense to get the icon.
Fun fact: after some time, I realised he had porential literally EVERYWHERE like crazy big. Just the moveset was like a huge box with hundreds possible interpretation. There's so much to work with that even to this day, I'm still surprised of the ideas here. Then, you have stages like theater where listing the possibilities would take a long essay. Music, dozens of them all awesome. Then you have tattles, palette, sound effects, partners, smash run enemies, events, etc...
It's so crazy that I made my slogan "infinite potential". That is btw why it's in my sig and the tittle permanently as it is the best way to reflect what he cn do.
Like, it's amazing,but the icon won't change that. So, keep hopping!
And own series is very accepted here even lovedto see claims like this. Most here understands how unique his series is and so, people assauling you is actually very bad because you were accurate and it;s explanable.
But feel free to tell your opinion here especially if own series
ok spm...this will be long.
Putting everything in spoiler for those who haven't played:
[collapse=SPM SPOILERS]First, ch5 was very good and I loved the music in 5-3. I loved the lenght, but boss was way too easy.
Ch6 was awesome. Totally unexpected. I would have liked to do the full 100 challenge, but the game doesn't want to. Also, huge minf blown even if I knew that tipi was Timpani, knowing that blumiere was count bleck was a big plot twist. He looked severely suspicious, but I didn't think of that. Just that part revealed the general events: something happened about Timpani that made her separated from blumiere while both were in love. It's unclear but timpani was something special and for some reasons, Merlon turned her into a Pixl which made Timpani vanish. I do know Timpani was cursed and Merlon sort of saved her by doing that, but the origin of the curse is unknown. I have my suspicions on dimentio with how Tipi seems to hate him so much. Also, she apparently lost her memory in the curse process and the memory text are her memory progressively coming back. All this to say that blumiere loved her so much that he could not live without her and so, was crazy enough to destroy every world as vengeance and so, he read the dark prognostic and that's how he turned to count bleck and wanted to just wipe everything. He didn't know about the Pixl transformation so what he's doing is pointless and he doesn't know that.
Sad story indeed. I know it's just the start, but that really tells me what we have to deal with. It's really something very emotional and it's really interesting to play with how much thrills it gives.
Now, back to review:
The empty world was really intriguing. The long corridor is just scary to go because it seems to never end. Btw, that's the only boss I admit was a little hard, but not that much.
When you come back tough...mind blown again. I how they name dead as a game over or your game being ended it;s just funny. Anyway, dimentio end your game and so, you get to the most creepy level ever. Btw, I LOVE the music. When you get to the bottom of the river tough...That; freaking creepy sounds. Really, it's scary to hear the sounds it's like a zombie or something.
Anyway, it ends ch 6. Ah yeah, it;s confusing: you get to ch7 to finish ch6 by force and you do ch7 by going into ch7 another time! Just for that, it;s the best so far chapter because you feel so helpless like ch4 in TTYD. Tough, spm ch3 is close second.
Anyway, ch7 was awesome too. 7-2...Gosh I finally got my answer I wanted for a year. The underchomp fight is heavily inspired from the mother series and the music is btw very good and I loved the normal version, the 8 bit one is awesome. It's an easy boss fight, but i don't care because it's a clear proof that the whole series is influenced a lot by mother. TTYD has porky theme c'mon. Last 2 levels felt...so relax and...cloudy
No really, that's like playing super mario sunshine the cloud are so cute you just want to jump on them indefinetly. You can't be mad while looking at the screens with those design and those clouds ARE TOO CUTE!!!
But the boss is a joke.
I;m in front of the ch8 door. I probably have the most mind blown I have since the story is really deep indeed and I love it. Especially the thrillsit give you.
So, really, I love this game.
[/collapse]
There you have it. I'll try to beat it tomorrow, but we'll see if my homework schedules says yes.
I really love this game so far. Far from TTYD, but I love it enough to truly consider it a Paper Mario game like PM64 and TTYD. Sticker star is not tough.
I agree, I am able to accept his inclusion but I required at least a stage and some music.Gotta say, even if Paper Mario isn't playable, I am just so happy Paper Mario is finally being recognized as important enough to warrant a stage and more representation. Thank you Mr. Sakurai for finally giving this series the respect it deserves!
Bobbery or Vivian! Aside from Bombette I always liked ttyd's partners better. edit: I say or for a reason, but I'd go with Bobbery.I agree, I am able to accept his inclusion but I required at least a stage and some music.
So. . . If you had the choice to pick one partner to follow Paper Mario. who would you pick?
My vote:
Thanks for your input!
I'd say Koops.I agree, I am able to accept his inclusion but I required at least a stage and some music.
So. . . If you had the choice to pick one partner to follow Paper Mario. who would you pick?
My vote:
So. . . If you had the choice to pick one partner to follow Paper Mario. who would you pick?
My vote:
Definitely Vivian, she's a very well-developed character and has some of the most useful attacks and abilities in the game!I agree, I am able to accept his inclusion but I required at least a stage and some music.
So. . . If you had the choice to pick one partner to follow Paper Mario. who would you pick?
My vote:
_-_Paper_Mario_The_Thousand-Year_Door.png/119px-Vivian_(alt)_-_Paper_Mario_The_Thousand-Year_Door.png)
i agree vivian's the bestDefinitely Vivian, she's a very well-developed character and has some of the most useful attacks and abilities in the game!
Love the series, weakest one for me was Partners in Time. Such a stupid idea putting all those insanely hard bosses together. Still haven't ever completed it because it's so damn hard.
I agree, I am able to accept his inclusion but I required at least a stage and some music.
So. . . If you had the choice to pick one partner to follow Paper Mario. who would you pick?
My vote:
I got the idea the day before your post to actually read the spm trophy in brawl now that I beat the game. I realised that every spm trophies only reference spm and tbh, are quite too much generic. Like, I don't know, but for being referenced in like 5 descriptions can someone rell me why there's no count bleck trophy? Odd stuff like that.
Yeah. feel the same. If it happens tough, there's one question that will keep haunting me and maybe it would if confirmed: did he planned him or seriously considered him before?Gotta say, even if Paper Mario isn't playable, I am just so happy Paper Mario is finally being recognized as important enough to warrant a stage and more representation. Thank you Mr. Sakurai for finally giving this series the respect it deserves!
You just want to jump everywhere. Peach with the mustache was funny.
I totally agree with you there about the series not being as good as Paper Mario, but I do think it has its moments. I find the battle system to be quite fun with all the Bros. attacks. I just think if you want a Paper Mario-esque game to hold you over until the next Paper Mario game(Hopefully not including stickers.......anywhere), you should pick up dream team!Sorry for being late and probably as you see this message, a day late, but I got technical difficulties with my graphic card as I was setting up a new monitor. Don't worry, I'll do the summary review anyway along with ideas just before I sleep.
But before,
I got the idea the day before your post to actually read the spm trophy in brawl now that I beat the game. I realised that every spm trophies only reference spm and tbh, are quite too much generic. Like, I don't know, but for being referenced in like 5 descriptions can someone rell me why there's no count bleck trophy? Odd stuff like that.
But I have to tell you onr thing: the only thing I'm 99% about his repping now is the trophies getting huge improvments. I really expect to see a lot more than brawl perhaps 1.5 - 2 times more! The stage would imply so much recognition that I see that it would make perfect sense to not only see more trophies, but also better description for the fans. Like, I don't expect to have just the 4 tropjies in Paper, but it could imply bosses? partners? important npc? I expect to see big improvments there or at least enough to make me smile for sure. I don't even doubt that.
So, when I look at brawl, I'm hyped for this game because it makes me realise we'll get so much more appropriate in repping than brawl now.
Yeah. feel the same. If it happens tough, there's one question that will keep haunting me and maybe it would if confirmed: did he planned him or seriously considered him before?
The day he would claim that after confirmation is the day I'll forget every questionable decisions he made in the past. Because it would show me that the brawl repping was because priority and so, got upset about nothing. I'm even going to say that if he claims that, that day shall be more hype than the confirmation itself. I'm that much curious now.
Tough, I have images n mt head of Paper Mario trophy to peel a sticker and suddenly, I already want him playable just for animations like those. When you just like every single and meaningless animations, having a role at all is very good and the stage would make his environment compromise his absence on said stage. Look at the blooper same design and I love it
So, Yeah I;m hype even after deconfirmation, but if confirmed, you may not heard news from my normal heart rate for hours with me dancing on TTYD tittle screen.
And fun fact: Since brawl, no trophies depicted PM64 specifically. I feel sad for those out there who feel notaslgic with it, but I hope there's at least one like I don't know...tubba?
Ok, summary review on Super Paper Mario. Note not a full review because not 100%, but it'll come when I do it and that implies if confirmed or it would be in social thread.
[collapse=I strongly recommend to not read this if you haven't beat spm, seriously]
Last warning, get out if you haven't beat spm.
Because this game shall only be loved by those who beat it...
First, I need to put some facts in context: it was going to be a gamecube game for 2006, but got pushed back to the Wii like many projects. The game got released in 2007 so 3 years after TTYD and 5 years before stickers. Yeah I don't even want to pronouncebecause it's a, totally different.
But the important part is because it was a gamecube project, several assets were taken directly from TTYD while most of them got modifoed for the game. It's very important to mention that around 40% of the game is in a way or another from TTYD. This means that if you loved TTYD, there'a a lot of familiar elements. That was my first mind blown and my doubts were confirmed after the game over joke BEFORE THE LAST SAVE!!! No doubt, it is a Paper Mario game.
To do this quickly, here's some noticeable one: the text font and effects including some bubbles copied or modified template, the colors and lines, the words, action commands system for items, partners system as Pixl, TTYD abilities in Pixl, 2x pit of 100 trails, an overworld that is the center between ch, a progressive change as you progress which is the void, lots of sounds effects, the humor style and writing, a tattle system, a story about love, music design having several sounds effects to enhance the tracks, the final battle is very similar to previous games, EXP and level system...Enough?
Like, believe me or not, but I can't believe people went to say it's not a Paper Mario game. There's evenhow it's not Paper Mario?
Ah yeah wait before you claim "But I can't stand platforming and real time battle", JUST TRY IT BEFORE SAYING IT!!!
Like, I'm serious. From someone who never played the game before, it never looked "odd" and actually, it looked to be a good game. Let me put this in perspective, I should hate the game by that logic and I loved it.
I played smw, loved the design and it;s a very good game, but there was one problem that made me hate it to the point of stopping my playtrough: I SUCK at this game. Not even ashamed to tell it, it's true. I played smb1, same result. I tried nsmb and I wuit quite early because it was just painful more than anything to continue. And I didn't even touched lost levels...probably shouldn't.
As for RPG, sorry, but both style have good points and bad points. Chrono trigger tried to mix the 2 if you're on active mode and really, it works because you feel preasure while you're not supposed to in turn by turn WHILE you're deciding what to do EXCEPT for boss. And there was one thing that I don't know why it was ignored that I hate any games that doesn't try to at least minimise its effect enough to hurt the experience: repetitive encounters. For me it's simple, the repel in Pokemon is the only reason I don't jate the games because if it wasn't there, then i would be forced to fight like 30 times for a cave NORMALLY, but add the "map is limited and getting distracted by random encounters while trying to explore" factor and you get like 40. Imagine I'm at level 50 in a level 10 dungeon...you need repels. TTYD did completely out of conventions by trying to make the battles fun to look and so, fighting the ch3 and the pit of 100 trails is more fun than anything.
When i view this in a global perspective, TTYD is impressing in that regard, but even TTYD and EVERY other turn by turn game I saw all suffer from one thing that can't be avoided because of this style template: the more encounter you have no matter how long they take, the more time it will take to progress and it could potentially make it feel a slow wait. That's the price you have to pay to get lots of strategy and simple procedure possible since it's all ordered, even Pokemon which has a damage calculation formula I've seen (no joke there's like 20 parameters) is simple to get because of turn by turn. You get this benefit for the price of having to take longer and on repetitive encounters, it can no longer feel as fun as it should which would hurt your experience in the end. Remember, the RPG template is made that you CAN get away from encounters after the start, but you HAVE to do enough of them to get enough level. That`s the point, but even then, you have to wait for the start of the encounter to get a run options and let me tell you that a simple 5 seconds on pokemon platinum makes a cave really more painful because times that 5 seconds for 30 times and it's exactly like waiting 150 seconds, but in 30 segments. That`s the problem because the maps can be a labyrinth so getting so much interruptions doesn't help.
So, what does real time solves and suffers? The complete opposite. Real time makes every battles quicker and almost done in seconds without having to wait, but because it's done on field, it reduces the depth possibilities that you gain in turn by turn. There`s no pause on both you and the foe to wait you select something to do. In fact there`s no selection and only abilities that have a fixed role unlike TTYD which you had 3 hammers, 3 jumps, 4 for partners and every badges. Here, you have at the most 3 for the character and only one for partner. And you need the partner for the only hammer. So, you don't waste any time which can't hurts your experience, but this experience can't be as deep as it would in turn by turn.
Not gonna lie this game sorry, but it suffers from it. The biggest complain I had on spm was the boss. In fact, I shouldn't even say that word, I should say a joke. Literally and that's including the final boss, EVERY boss in the game were ALL at the best case x10 times easier than EVERY platforming you have done in the ch prior. Really, the final boss was just like a speedrunner beating ocarina of time and I didn't check the route Almo made (yes, they have to make route for long games for notes). To get from TTYD where a boss could take a long time just because you need to think to not screw the fight to spm where you just need to jump everywhere and do the boss in like 2 minutes is, I agree, disappointing. PM64 follows the same thing so yes, it does differs from the series, but when I view why it was done, there's no reasons to hate it that much.
I said I sucked in platformer and that yes, I like more turn by turn for the reasons I stated if it's properly done. However, I don't suck at platformers that doen't have the concept of "try, die, game over" in priority. That actually should NOT exist because jumping on platform is so simple that you need a difficulty factor to make it interesting. Tough, there's several games that has platformers as segment and the zelda series is a good example even with the auto jump. This is made to complement and so, not centralised on difficulty and so, I don't suck.
If the platformer took too much in spm, then seriously, you should see me hate that game or not even beat it. I should not even be motivated to finish it. There<s several reasons for that like respanwing where you died, not much hard section and most of them are straight forward or easy. Not even felt an increase as I progressed so, I can enjoy the game.
But this allows to have good possibilities where it<s done to work better. That<s where real time is here contributing to make platforming better. Platforming needs to be done without interruption so real time has this as a pros. As for the possibilities...let's be honest, there's not much in platforming since it's made to be simple. So, real time works well with platforming to makes its cons not apparent in platforming and using the same pros.
The opposite is also true. RPG needs level with exp while platforming has a frankly useless thing called the score. I say useless, because I don't' see why it's significant nowadays and it's mostly heritage, but to take this and use it as EXP not only fills what RPG needs, but also fufills its original purposes at the same time when it<s benefical. If I look at the score, now, it matters a lot that this numbers NEEDS to go up as it<s the whole RPG template, you need exp. So, before, it was just to see numbers goes up without purposes and now, it's with a purpose.
Do you get why real time + platforming is a great choice for an RPG game? I don't even believe when I see people telling it's too different to be a Paper Mario game. Real time in itself, yes i would maybe agree, but real time in platforming where both genre are bridged together like they were one, sorry, but this allows you to to "play with those bridges" to improve the thing. I mean that they fit together so it<s not bad, but they also make that if you could do one mechanic that uses both genre at the same time, then it would automatically work.
That's why flipping exists. RPG template has a lot of variety in quests and events which includes from fights to puzzles, relax to intense and from straight forward to thinking how to find a path. the puzzles and the way to find a path are really something used a lot in the series. Every game has a "correct" sound effects and every game has puzzles with environment. Those also revolves around the perspective in 3D and the artstyle contrast so you need 3D here. Flipping just do that and the only reason it<s limited is to forces you to use platforming instead of just being an RPG which would make real time pointless.
You have to use it so you have to get those feels from the series.
I really think I made my point: it's a Paper Mario game. RPG is there and it<s mixed with something that make it work better.
Now, here<s why the game is underrated A LOT: the same reason TTYD unfortunately suffers the most.
I said multiple time that TTYD and so PM64 has so much emotions and reactions implied with so much unique and good humor that it needs to be experienced to be enjoyed. That is the definition of art and it's a good thing, but it makes some pieces underrated with how they are judged from look. Spm has its best parts that I did not heard from anyone I saw who played the game before and when I saw them, mind = blown. Some parts even reached TTYD quality and in some way, may even get over. It's everything proprietairy to the series and not every other mario series.
Which is where my review begins to be more concrete now...
Intro
TTYD style. Nothing to say it's just what I would expect. Tough, I imagine someone clueless on the intro doing a wth? when you see the scene.
Just going to say, tittle screen is quite good, but it's not that catchy as TTYD was, but it's catchy enough.
Then you have the usual prologue cs which I won't elaborate unless some jokes (already setting up TTYD text). AFTER, that was my first mind blown even if I was expecting it. There's a yes/no gameover joke. It's like TTYD, they loop a yes/no question until you answer yes and just continue. If you insist eough, it just game over you. Sometimes, the game even tricks you and you have only one chance to answer and there's one point in ch 8 that I didn't get because I was smart, but honestly, this one could be frustratingif you mashed the text.
So, I have not reached a save point and it already feels like TTYD inspired. Good start
Just going to talk about the void quick: it's like the dialogues in TTYD. In that game, after every ch, the whole town was more depressed in the dialogues giving you the feeling of ascending intensity and difficulty. Btw, that's what an RPG should do. In spm, it's there everywhere that the background has no walls. So, you see just a little and small circle and after, it takes almost the whole screen. You really feel the progress with this so, I found it good to have a fixed spot on screen so that it's not even something in the level, but you feel it.
Then you go to ch1. The segmentation doesn't make the game less immersive because some section can be very long since RPG quests. You don't just go from left to right on the later levels and most of them are like that actually.
And here, you just get familiar with the design: imagine TTYD with more simple gradient and cubes. Makes sense with the flipping and doesn't disturb the original style. And the music...that one isn't a good example, but it's good for first level. They did changed the sound design, but still based on TTYD. Going to bring this up later.
So, now, it's not that much interesting you get flip with a weird coin jokes (again, TTYD) and you just continue while still having silly texts and jokes. Btw, buttons icons jokes are going to be your new tutorial recuring jokes. It's good the first 3 times, but after, it's too simple to care and it's just too predictable. Not reaching curse joke quality, but enough to be funny.
Ch1 is every time not to most interesting ch but just ok. That's expected.
I need to mention Pxil encounters, they're hilarious with the bgm. Some makes weird sentences and words, but the best is the boomer one. The questions he ask made me "the heck?" with me doing a "I don't know what's the point" to finally realise that....wait....wait....WAIT...
Nothing
That moment, good troll.
And I need to mention the first time you feel Tipi is not just there and do nothing besides being a gombella replacment. She was shied to tell about its past or its birth as Pixl. The teasing is starting and it will get a lot bigger after.
Watch it jokes are lol, but after, it's pretty much puzzles with flipping, but the tree one was warning myself that you actually need to check everything. I loved the puzzles because of that since you have to check what is weird and develop the flipping instantly. It's not hard, but you have to search and most of the time, it's obvious to get something odd. You have Tippi anyway which helps more with the cursor method.
The boss tough...I didn't expect that much quality on the text of first ch. Basically, fracktail is a robot so, lots of computer reference and guess what, Windows is included. I just need to remind you, this is the wii. I don't think I saw that much computer jokes in a big rant that were THAT far. First, it starts with a silly one, the wii loading icon. That's good, but the text after dimentio makes it glitch...way too much for me to handle that.
It's so bad they made the text autoscroll because I had to push home a lot and I was just leaving it for minutes until passing to the next just to laugh. The zelda 2 reference was NOT expected and I NEVER expected to see this from ANY mario or Paper Mario game. Maybe we'll know why one day, but that was lol. Then, BIOS Error, installation errors, save and quit dialog, program on terminal running, 404 computer hamster not found, ...I had to take a 10 minutes break because it was too much. THE one that completely killed me and left me speechless was "CTRL ALT DELETE" in upscaled font. Like, you never expect that deepness in IRL jokes. TTYD was global in those, but this game targets so much person specifically where most knows how Windows works that seeing this in THAT game is way further than TTYD. Yes, the humor on that scene was never reached and wouldn't be reached on TTYD. The best I got was internet speed measure and collegue test. Then you had usual Gombella 4th wall with her being sorry for doing it, but NEVER this game got to a point where it was a rain of references like those. As if it was just too much, there's more...
Music is where you can clearly hear the difference: there's more sounds...A LOT more sounds than TTYD was had a lot. Tough, the sounds are very quick and faster which means that in one frame, you would hear more sounds in average in the background and those are played really fast and are very quick. What it does is interesting because it gives more dynamic to the music, but also reduces its deepness in immersion. What i mean is that the music will have so much sounds that it would feel a bit more repetitive, but I also noticed that the music are very short before loop. So, give it like 3 loops and it's in your head without even noticing. I remember the first time I heard fracktail, felt intense, but not memorable to then get the ripped wav and realise how much I love it. It's so dynamic and so simple that it's a very good track for how much it uses differents quick sounds. The main track is more sounds too. The only down side is that you can't be that much deep in the variety like shadow queen, but it also enhance a lot more one emotion in the track. So, intensity is more present, relax is more smooth (memory one is so simple and I'm so addicted to it) and the ultimate show is the best proof. When you think about it, ultimate show fits only upon critical events coming soon are currently going on. That's the reasons it's good on project m, but it doesn't work on every intense moments. What i mean is that the music is more precise in its purposes, but it means that if you just hear the music slone, it has less chances to speaks by itself.
All this to say: it's not TTYD immersion, but some tells an emotions better than TTYD if it's specific. You won't get unless you've played what a music do. Except for ultimate show, but that will be later talked.
From there, the only part I need to mention is the famous and crucial part of the game, the memory texts.
To reminds you, you don't know who talks until after ch2. You don't know it's from someone with amnesia and you just don't know why you even read this at all. I did saw the template before and I found it intriguing, trust me, read those because it's the whole thrills of playing the game. They didn't put those after ch for nothing and it's clear what it tries to acheive. And it reveals info so slowly with having 5 DIRECT (there's more remixes) variation of memory including bounding trought time. 5 variations...that should tell you how slow it unfolds after ch. ch1 is not even connected to anything, just an encounter between 2 person that got in love. Oh yeah, it's not clear it's love that much on the beginning. Screw this, nothing is clear until ch6 where you can imply stuff and ch7 is the full reveal which honestly, wasn't surprising, but the way it happened throughout every memory text is the plot est part.
Just an advice that I found just too weird from design perspective, don't do the pit of 100 trials before beating the game. I don't even know why they allow it because TTYD had a bug with Doopliss corrected when they shouldn't tell the name and Bonetail tattle name "final boss". No reasons to break this in spm for such a deep and well developped story.
The story itself...it's actually not the way I expected when I heard "deep". It's more something that you get and react emotionally and less technical like TEC asking you the question he can't answers himself. It's more via the style of writing which is intentionally hidden, but the fact that it's hidden is obvious. It's like teasing basically and you know what it does? You really want to know more with how weird the Tippi and Bleck dialogs are getting. Dimentio was revealed before the fight so even if I was not spoiled, not going to change that he was way too suspicious to doubt it being the end.
The tease is the reasons the story is so good and as for the story itself, it's dark I agree, but it's more how it unfolds that makes it so good. In itself, it's quite sad really. The saddest part isn't the curse, but the reality present until you beat bleck: he doesn't realise he went trough all of this AGAINST his purpose of doing it in the first place because he didn't know Tipi is the person he's looking for. Which means that while he feels VERY mad and went into insanity, he should not and since tipi seems to be the only of the 2 to progressively remembers what was forgotten by bleck, she feels very concerned about it to the point of being hesitant to do what is required to be done to not have both of them "getting their games ended" (loved that joke) so that both could live together.
So, that's a really good story about the expression "Out of sight, Out of mind" and what it can cause when you're in love. That's why the difference from TTYD. TTYD was the comparaison of love itself with a computer glitch while spm is more what happens with love getting stall trough time...it weakens. In fact, the whole game makes so much sense with this theme now. To see flipside being from "ancient", the music named "memory", the story being based on past, the pure hearts being the love of the far past (the 1500 years isn't for nothing) and finally, the contrast of flip/flop. I actually need to reread dialogues because I 'm sure I could get into a deep psychology analysis and crushing TTYD deepness, but the moral of it is this:
"Love weakens trough time if nothing happens, but it will never in any circumstances vanish if not ended properly and the only thing needed to unfolds the memories of it is being exposed to it at some point and thus, restoring its original state so it's a revival".
Yeah, far more complex than TTYD, but I love (lol) this being scaled to the whole game and so, making you want to know the full thing. The end scene is btw the most emotional one and really, to get there is the reason you read the memory text so read them!
Ouf, the most heavy part is done. Now, intermissions and ch with what I explained already, should be quick:
To ch2 has nothing to mention.
ch2 has a catchy 2-1 music and that's it! Mansion is a troll on 2-2, but 2-3 is like playing animal crossing so I found it very silly. I may need to replay, but if it is animal crossing, I think it's a parody of farming which is just funny. Btw, no it is not painful to put the wiimote so the side of the dpad is pushed against the edge of your desk while posting here with the other hand. I may even think it's intended for sillyness that you don't stare for 10 minutes at the screen. I still don't get the animal crossing loan and the debt being related to the wheel, but it's true that the thing you do in animal crossing is the same each day. I need to check this theory because I liked this ch joke. 2-4...THE QUIZ! Really, it's even better than TTYD where they answer really unrelated answers to unrelated questions. I even wonder if it should help you, but I don't think it does.
Before ch3, not much, but I think you get access to the bar which is complementing the story and later, a random ost player (10 coins unfortunately are required, but at least it's the whole ost).
Ch3 is BY FAR the best ch in the game. There's a lot of awesomeness here: listening to a powerful enemy emerge 2 times, the bit theme which I just like to look at squares, the 1-2 reference in smb1 (and the music too) with the expected warp zone path required to proceed, gaining bowser playable, the relaxing water music, and the best, BEST thing this game could do...
3-4
This is the best part of the game. If you felt nothing on 1-4, you can't forget this one. The whole level is filled with Paper Mario TTYD or not references and it's just probably the best part for those who loved TTYD like me. It's not even the end because you have a whole parody fully complete on fans of games. EVERYTHING you could joke about is there. I actually even adhere in some part on noticing small details changed while in the end, it doesn't hurt the game, but I feel annoyed about it, but this guy is just hilarious. That's btw the reasons you need to play TTYD and PM64 if you haven't because you won't realise how much fanservice was there and how funny it was to go that far. If you're still telling me it's not a Paper Mario game, then just get out if it includes 3-4. In the quarter of a ch, this game managed to get the most series reference out of any ch of the series. And the francis dialog about internets is just lol.
And I need your attention here: the best 4th wall joke ever made in any Paper Mario game and the joke that will beat that deserves big recognition, swoon.exe.
Flurrie can just feel appropriate with her theme comparing to swoon.exe. I don't know what it references directly, or generic, but gosh I exploded of laugh. Just to make this better, I chose the most positive response even to the most awkward questions. That would have been the ultimate awkward 4th joke if Peach was Gombella...did I just got the best idea? Really, with the very smooth music and the lovely pink, Francis is just so silly and you litterally can torture peach to then finally see her asking who chose those answers like gosh, Intelligent System are the king of 4th jokes. This is beating Earthbound, yeah I said it and I never tough I would.
So, best level and ch.
To ch4 is where you get how intriguing the story gets and where it really seems to be a lot hidden so that's where it really starts to be great. The fish bowl was unecessary imo tough and I still don't get the purpose of it. Not to mention the big VGL it implies...
ch4 in spaces has an epic music that is very intense and slow. I really like that music, but I got stuck with the paper thing until I used Tipi and I feel ashamed for not being told 2 times with the ch title and a Pixl telling he needs paper. You have to admit that it was misleading tough. Shoot sections are...well, just shoot everything. They feel good, but not memorable. Again, music helps. The 4-3 is annoying with the warps and finding the shop.
4-4 tough, is really good because you have to have good orientation and geometry projection skill to easilly do that. I took a long time to realise that you could use Peach for a jump because it wasn't obvious without geometry projection of turning the world in your head without phisically turning it. Love the concept.
I will be honest, all the bosses were so easy that Mr L really felt nothing. but a joke that without wouldn't change anything. So, not much reactions from that fight.
to ch5 is interesting with the Tipi thing and the story getting into crazy theories if you didn't check the pit prior (why IS, why?). Tough, blumiere was impossible to guess before the reveal, but he was suspicious on several time.
ch5 is my third best ch because the 5-1 is plain silliness with the please and block puzzle and the text weirdness, 5-2 was good because long puzzle, but 5-3 and 5-4 are the reasons this ch is very good. The music is really getting into your head and it's so epic with the rhytm I could sing it everyday. And the exploring with the hidden smrpg reference (yes, it's the mining cart theme) with this music is very awesome. Then, the floro emperor text are quite silly especially the one with taxes, lol.
to ch 6 is not that much with the tease getting bigger, it's about to mind blown tough.
Ch6: I honestly tough you would have to beat all 100 like the pit, but the game doesn't want it. The music here is so good with the retro effect that I had to move my wiimote to sort of dance with it. I love this music. the dialogs are quite impressing to make 100 fighters unique in style. Some are very silly like the one with the haiku being wigglywiggle or so.
And finally, the biggest plot twist...
Count bleck was blumiere and as you might have got, timpani was tippi. Now from this point, it keeps getting shocking plot twist. When the world is destroyed, it's just unusual for a ch and you really wonder what's going on.
This part tbh, was intriguing. the music is like empty, but creepy too. And I love how the game seems to do the same as the ch4 from TTYD: make the simple path VERY long enough to amplify this feel. It feels almost infinite and it's limited by invisible walls where the path seems to continue further. The boss is the only one I have a slight respect for because it was way too easy, but the nose is kinda annoying to reach so it's something.
And then comes why I loved that ch you do 7-1 and this part is really good. The music has a part that I love and the river music is the creepiest thing I never heard. It's almost like zombies and I really wonder how they managed to record that. I know that the jelly from wind waker has speed up and reversed voice of an argument in Japanese. Wonder if it was the same here. And love the game ending jokes again (lol about the continue at the end).
ch7 is my second favorite not counting 7-1 since it's nothing.
7-2...mind blown on underchomp and I was very happy to see this. I had a theory since a long time when I noticed that a TTYD music was very similar to an earthbound one like they had the same melody and have a lot in common it's obvious that it can't be luck. Then, I noticed that the series core had a lot of mother series elements like the first strike and the whole joke style breaking lots of time the 4th wall and even get into IRL context like mother. So, I had a theory that PM64 was the result of using the foundation of smrpg mixed with mother philosophies in design and gameplay.
The underchomp battle is without any doubt mother reference. Not even Pokemon because some of the words in the battles are very close to mother specifically. And the 8 bit rendition of a powerful enemy emerge with the echo is very good and I just love this music with hoe intense the music is. I like this rendition more than the 8 bit part on gygas means business.
Other than that, the sisters are troll, the quiz are very funny especially the first one (honestly, who got owned on the apples question?) and Bowser is still as dumb as ever.
From 7-3 to the end, ahhhhhhhh, those clouds are just TOO CUTE!!! Along with the music, this level is so well made and so cute that you can't feel angry and look at it at the same time. It feels like sunshine
Then, I was kinda surprised about the annoying girl being an incarnation of pure heart. I could describe lots of feeling she has, but love. No she even hates Mario (because it's in Paper Mario context, the Paper is implied). That's really weird and I see lots of VGL.
And that's where it tells that count bleck got born because blumiere could not support not being with timpani and so, went into insanity and wanting to destroy everything. Kinda maybe a little too much insane, but suicide wouldn't be better so...
And we finish with ch8. I just want to say that I love the music and that it found it feels like castlevania. It's basically a kinda hard ch except boss. Liked the labyrinth in 8-4. Now, before dimentio triggers the chaos heart, this is where you could cry if needed because it's where it's getting emotional. bleck and tippi remembered their love together and so, revived the pure heart revealing the whole point of the story. "Love is infinite when you feel it". that was the point and so, dimentio is no longer invicible and unfortunately, is a joke, but let me talk a bit about ultimate show, the best music by far in spm.
This is not even complete and not complex to get it's dimentio theme. But here, that's where more sounds is very usefull because you have so much sounds at the same time that it feels very intense. And with the beat, it changes very quickly and you just feel like it's the last moment before chaos. It's not majora's mask final hours where it's the anticipation of chaos, but here, it's like minutes before it and a last chance to stop it. It's really something that you instantly have the full atention after listening to the first note after the start. You listen that note and that's it, you can't stop it like that you just have to continue listening until you're getting that you made 10 loops. It's really not even noticeable that it loops because it gets so much of your attention it's crazy. I really find this track amazing to do this and I really appreciate the project M backroom for putting this in this mod.
I want it so much for ssb4.
And then, you have the wedding, the farewell to the couple which is pretty emotional too. and credits and THE END.
I need to mention one thing before being done. I didn't tried to tattle everything because annoying wiimote and you loose tippi several time but i have tiptron now. So far, far from Gombella humor so kinda a bummer.
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Overall, fantastic. It's clearly a welcome intalment in the series that I still don't understand the hate because of explained reasons. Iwould like several stuff to be in smash now but please, thoreau needs to be his grabs.
I skipped some posts because you posted while I was preparing but I would like loops better. I don't know I just like that guy and especially his stylish moves.
X-naut foretress is not out of there because it's really pumping and you feel offensive which is fitting. I would like that music too, but the suggestion is already in the music section of the OP and several others.
I played superstar saga, and I strongly disagree with Paper Mario being similar. Sorry, but it's far from it and also, I didn't like the game because of several issues I had and tbh, the humor wasn't that good for me. The humor I like is absurd silliness and 4th wall like earthbound, not weird jokes without context like I didn't like the game. Some music were good tough.
Also, I have an announcement, Thurday, I will do a post on this thread and this will contain last hope speech, final words, recap and final thanks to some notable members here. After it, I will not post again in the thread until we know the verdict. You helped me a lot to hype myself and it helped with the stage and I can't describe how I appreciated that, but one time, it has to be decided if playable or not and now, it's something I want to live personal and then with everyone. I still can't believe we are living on the very last second probably and I'm very proud of being there to lead the thread.
Let's just hope for the last time that it may be for more years as it might be suspended in 3 days.
As a reminder, verdict is locked this Friday at 11 AM EST. After this time, it's no longer subjective, but he's playable or he's not playable forever or he's not playable with possibility of DLC. If we see his trophies, not playable forever and not playable without is with DLC possibilities. If confirmed, either in treehouse stream or unlockable and hidden.
I hope you look forward to this last hopes
aldelaro5
did you find out what the stage name was?
I didn't checked. Music is unknown.I totally agree with you there about the series not being as good as Paper Mario, but I do think it has its moments. I find the battle system to be quite fun with all the Bros. attacks. I just think if you want a Paper Mario-esque game to hold you over until the next Paper Mario game(Hopefully not including stickers.......anywhere), you should pick up dream team!
As for the main man Paper Mario, has there been any more content shown from his games from the Japanese demo?
And also @
Did you learn what the stage logo was?
Check the end of stage section in the OP.
It's the Mario icon. The demo stream I'm watching hovered over that stage.
Would it be possible to drop a link to that stream?
Not surprised.
Someone asked in the character thread what happens to current support thread not in the roster for DLC support and the answer got me really worried.
I gotcha, man. Hopefully DLC is confirmed at the Treehouse stream on Friday.Someone asked in the character thread what happens to current support thread not in the roster for DLC support and the answer got me really worried.
They are all archived and only unarchived if DLC appearing is confirmed which should take a long time.
So, if he's not in the roster on final build and full roster, archived.
Not locked and not even any proof of existence are there and only accessible by the staff.
So, I loose OP power because I can't get into it.
Which is why we can't and onlt make a series general talk which is the best I would be able to do.
Listening to the unused relax music fro spm and gosh it's so emotional now
FOREVER!!
BTW Smooth McGroove is about to stream it. He should be more entertaining.
Nice!! Thanks man!
I'm afraid the best I can have is html files which are like snapshot of every pages.I still think if he's not in the launch roster Paper Mario can get in if he's a trophy.(Considering there is DLC)
I mean I know they may have similar descriptions, but I think that wouldn't matter too much in the long run...
I mean this is Sakurai we're talking about here!
And don't worry! This thread will live
Well then let's just stay optimistic and hope for the best!
Just as you said that, floro sapiens cavern played and it was on shuffle on all 3 games music combined on vlc playlist.Well then let's just stay optimistic and hope for the best!
Wow!! Thanks!!
