Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[Malakandra]

Well, last time your slot posted they were my highest townread... excited to see what you have to offer!

 

[BoomFrog]

Well, anyway, LaserGuy gets to stay in the town core. In agree with every single thing you said about other players and expected what you said about me.

Yes, I knew you wanted me to drop a scum team analysis. That is my usual D3 move. But it didn't seem appealing compared to just figuring out Fonti. If Fonti is scum it's obvious frozen must be a buddy. If Fonti is town I've got someone else to help me today I can trust.

One goal has been to figure out the third if Fonti is scum. Like you, I'm down to wam or OsiHorse. wam is here to test, OsiHorse wasn't.

The other test has been to see if Fonti can come up with a plausible scum team without her or me in it. She has again painted herself into a corner with too many town reads.

The key wrinkle in your theory (this applies to Wam too) is that you assume scum me pulled this elaborate plan but then failed at the end. Please give me more credit. If I was going to actually try stopping the Fonti yeet I'd have had a specific target after the reveal, not this. The Fonti wagon is still rolling through inertia. 9 out of 10 Fonti is still the yeet and the only thing I see possibly changing that is if Osi pulls out some amazing reads. If I planned this whole thing I wouldn't be caught "scrambling" at the end.

 

[BoomFrog]

Btw, LaserGuy , I don't want to get too into it since time is precise, but I'm a bit offended you think my case is "middling". What could be better?

 

[giraffelasergun]

Vote Count 3.6:
OsieOrb (2): FrozenFlame, Fontisian
Fontisian (2): LaserGuy, Kary

Not Voting (4): OsieOrb Pythag, Malakandra, Boom Frog

With 8 voters, it takes 5 votes to eliminate. Day 3 Deadline is 5 PM CST on Friday the 25th.

 

[BoomFrog]

EBWOP: Precious

 

[fontisian]

It's insanely frustrating to be repeatedly told my reads are garbage and that's means I must be scum, when we haven't even had a scum flip. I came here to get away from a toxic meta that expects me to get a wolf by d2 and then buries me when I can't live up to that expectation. I'm not a god, I'm just a person doing my best.

Laser, you're literally restating my reasons for townreading on Kary, Wam, Pythag and Mala. If you're town, have a little ****ing faith and kill the DH slot with me.

 

[fontisian]

Well, anyway, LaserGuy gets to stay in the town core. In agree with every single thing you said about other players and expected what you said about me.

Yes, I knew you wanted me to drop a scum team analysis. That is my usual D3 move. But it didn't seem appealing compared to just figuring out Fonti. If Fonti is scum it's obvious frozen must be a buddy. If Fonti is town I've got someone else to help me today I can trust.

One goal has been to figure out the third if Fonti is scum. Like you, I'm down to wam or OsiHorse. wam is here to test, OsiHorse wasn't.

The other test has been to see if Fonti can come up with a plausible scum team without her or me in it. She has again painted herself into a corner with too many town reads.

The key wrinkle in your theory (this applies to Wam too) is that you assume scum me pulled this elaborate plan but then failed at the end. Please give me more credit. If I was going to actually try stopping the Fonti yeet I'd have had a specific target after the reveal, not this. The Fonti wagon is still rolling through inertia. 9 out of 10 Fonti is still the yeet and the only thing I see possibly changing that is if Osi pulls out some amazing reads. If I planned this whole thing I wouldn't be caught "scrambling" at the end.

Also, this, we'd turn it into a smooth swing onto a town or something, and I wouldn't have pinged Boom to talk about what he found.

 

[fontisian]

osieorb18 Hard claim.

 

[fontisian]

I don't know why I'm bothering. It's not like Kary will ever vote anywhere else, so if Wam is town I'm just ****ed.

My legacy is Frozen/Kary town. Figure out the rest yourselves.

 

[fontisian]

It probably just is DH/Laser/Wam and Laser's trying his absolute hardest to carry them to the win, and Boom's getting stuck on how ~paranoid~ Laser sounds.

 

[fontisian]

Maybe not Wam? He couldn't have known the Day 1 Wam wagon wasn't going over when he voted, doesn't fit with the constant hard defense of DH slot. Obviously not Mala, Frozen. Could be Kary if they weren't independently hella town. Can't be Boom, there's no point in making this push now, except maybe to set up why they're both alive Tomorrow, but my flip covers that. Literally just leaves Pythag, and the derps have to have been orchestrated by Laser, and the whole gane is just ****ed and my reads are ****ed.

 

[fontisian]

Well, anyway, LaserGuy gets to stay in the town core. In agree with every single thing you said about other players and expected what you said about me.

Yes, I knew you wanted me to drop a scum team analysis. That is my usual D3 move. But it didn't seem appealing compared to just figuring out Fonti. If Fonti is scum it's obvious frozen must be a buddy. If Fonti is town I've got someone else to help me today I can trust.

One goal has been to figure out the third if Fonti is scum. Like you, I'm down to wam or OsiHorse. wam is here to test, OsiHorse wasn't.

The other test has been to see if Fonti can come up with a plausible scum team without her or me in it. She has again painted herself into a corner with too many town reads.

The key wrinkle in your theory (this applies to Wam too) is that you assume scum me pulled this elaborate plan but then failed at the end. Please give me more credit. If I was going to actually try stopping the Fonti yeet I'd have had a specific target after the reveal, not this. The Fonti wagon is still rolling through inertia. 9 out of 10 Fonti is still the yeet and the only thing I see possibly changing that is if Osi pulls out some amazing reads. If I planned this whole thing I wouldn't be caught "scrambling" at the end.

You're literally just have a problem with me reverse solving.

 

[fontisian]

I actually think a lot of the points that Boom has made about fonti are, at least to some extent or other, fair. Particularly the point that fonti has absolutely avoided committing to strong reads, outside of one or two, and has not really attempted to resolve a towncore. I want to contrast particularly with Midnight OPs, where fonti basically locked a number of players as a strong Towncore on D2 and steadfastly refused to budge, forcing scum (Mala and I) into a very tight PoE net that eventually strangled us. She also was much more assertive with both her (disturbingly accurate) pushes and her Townclears. Again, there's a clear lack of commitment in her reads. I struggle to even draw to mind any solid reads that she has made this game other than Chaco. I think fonti has been afraid to overcommit to her reads precisely because she is mafia and is going to need to abandon many of her Townreads as she goes.

I have literally been hardclearing Kary and Frozen for the majority of the game.

 

[fontisian]

I am 95% sure my towncore is good, and that's enough to bet the game.

 

[Malakandra]

LaserGuy how often would you say town listens to a dead town they voted outs reads?

Also, what Movie made you cry recently and why

 

[fontisian]

But it doesn't matter, because Kary won't even talk to me.

 

[Malakandra]

Do ya'll need a counselor? I think ya'll need someone to mediate.

 

[fontisian]

Do ya'll need a counselor? I think ya'll need someone to mediate.

It's fine, I'll scream internally for a bit, eat a banana, and feel better.

 

[Malakandra]

fontisian at what point did you start townreading me today. I remember Yesterday you were pushing me relatively hard, what changed that from being purposely obtuse and inconsistent logic to now? Was it just my claim?

 

[fontisian]

fontisian at what point did you start townreading me today. I remember Yesterday you were pushing me relatively hard, what changed that from being purposely obtuse and inconsistent logic to now? Was it just my claim?

There might have been something before the claim? The claim sealed it, like the way you were overeager and asked to picked, and your frustration over Wam hitting the dead people while you hit nothing, and the discussion about my, Wam and Pythag's abilities. Plus the claim itself makes absolutely no sense coming from scum if we have any chance at all of hitting Today or Tomorrow. You were already widely townread, there's no reason to claim something that will make people question why you're alive later in the game.

 

[osieorb18]

Ah. I am also Vanilla Town. 5 power roles in 13 players seems reasonable; I'm down to believe that the people who claimed power roles are at least all power roles, though 1-2 of them are probably scum, and there's probably a similar number in the VTs.

On a quick skim, I'm seeing a lot of consensus reads after a bunch of us have been eliminated. That's a little worrisome.

Frozen looks solid here. I'll catch up as much as I can in the morning and then try to get at least a rough PoE. Anything that people would like me to specifically look towards, I can do (given that 2300 posts is a lot to read).

fontisian

 

[fontisian]

Specifically, the way you went after Wam for having a normalish claim while yours ans mine were super weird and then pulled back when you remembered Sabrar's role sealed it, though I think I was already pretty sure by that point.

 

[fontisian]

fontisian

Ah, didn't see this.

Also, hey Osie, nice to see you!

 

[fontisian]

fontisian

Heads up, if you're town, we're in the **** now, somebody's got to shovel it.

 

[BoomFrog]

You're literally just have a problem with me reverse solving.

Reverse solving is valid. The issue is there are too many town so the bar is raised.

 

[fontisian]

Reverse solving is valid. The issue is there are too many town so the bar is raised.

Do you think anything DH did was towny?

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy how often would you say town listens to a dead town they voted outs reads?

Also, what Movie made you cry recently and why

A lot less than they should, IMHO. Dead townies' reads have the advantage of being confirmed as pure. Doesn't mean they're right, but at least you know they aren't mafia.

Well, anyway, LaserGuy gets to stay in the town core. In agree with every single thing you said about other players and expected what you said about me.

Yes, I knew you wanted me to drop a scum team analysis. That is my usual D3 move. But it didn't seem appealing compared to just figuring out Fonti. If Fonti is scum it's obvious frozen must be a buddy. If Fonti is town I've got someone else to help me today I can trust.

One goal has been to figure out the third if Fonti is scum. Like you, I'm down to wam or OsiHorse. wam is here to test, OsiHorse wasn't.

The other test has been to see if Fonti can come up with a plausible scum team without her or me in it. She has again painted herself into a corner with too many town reads.

The key wrinkle in your theory (this applies to Wam too) is that you assume scum me pulled this elaborate plan but then failed at the end. Please give me more credit. If I was going to actually try stopping the Fonti yeet I'd have had a specific target after the reveal, not this. The Fonti wagon is still rolling through inertia. 9 out of 10 Fonti is still the yeet and the only thing I see possibly changing that is if Osi pulls out some amazing reads. If I planned this whole thing I wouldn't be caught "scrambling" at the end.
[/QUOTE]

Btw, LaserGuy , I don't want to get too into it since time is precise, but I'm a bit offended you think my case is "middling". What could be better?

 

[LaserGuy]

Oopss... I have no idea why that just posted.

 

[BoomFrog]

Do you think anything DH did was towny?

Yes, but it's under the bar by now.

Let's say Laser is scum. Mala, pythag, Kary are still all town core on tone. You trust me and yourself. That leaves just Laser-OsieHorse and wam or Frozen. Right, there's nothing else that fits. I don't understand why your frozen read is so solid.

 

[fontisian]

Yes, but it's under the bar by now.

Let's say Laser is scum. Mala, pythag, Kary are still all town core on tone. You trust me and yourself. That leaves just Laser-OsieHorse and wam or Frozen. Right, there's nothing else that fits. I don't understand why your frozen read is so solid.

The Frozen read isn't tone. It's activity too, what he's choosing to pursue when he's here. He's reconsidering me, he's picking fights with Kary, he's pushing for answers, he's the only one fighting to yeet DH with me. Just like the Kary read isn't tone, and just like the Mala read isn't tone. It's actions. Like you said, we're raising the bar, and even though Pythag's tone feels open, that's not enough.

 

[BoomFrog]

You think pythag falls under the bar before wam?

 

[fontisian]

You think pythag falls under the bar before wam?

100%, yes.

 

[BoomFrog]

So Laser-Pythag-OsiHorse?

 

[LaserGuy]

Let's try this again.

LaserGuy how often would you say town listens to a dead town they voted outs reads?

Also, what Movie made you cry recently and why

A lot less than they should, IMHO. Dead townies' reads have the advantage of being confirmed as pure. Doesn't mean they're right, but at least you know they aren't mafia.

Well, anyway, LaserGuy gets to stay in the town core. In agree with every single thing you said about other players and expected what you said about me.

Subtlety has never been my strong suit.

Yes, I knew you wanted me to drop a scum team analysis. That is my usual D3 move. But it didn't seem appealing compared to just figuring out Fonti. If Fonti is scum it's obvious frozen must be a buddy. If Fonti is town I've got someone else to help me today I can trust.

One goal has been to figure out the third if Fonti is scum. Like you, I'm down to wam or OsiHorse. wam is here to test, OsiHorse wasn't.

The other test has been to see if Fonti can come up with a plausible scum team without her or me in it. She has again painted herself into a corner with too many town reads.

This would be a lot more convincing if you hadn't started backing down so quickly.

Btw, LaserGuy , I don't want to get too into it since time is precise, but I'm a bit offended you think my case is "middling". What could be better?

Exactly what I said. You didn't look consider the big picture. The points on fonti individually are fine... I made a lot of similar comments back in D2, as did Sync.

The key wrinkle in your theory (this applies to Wam too) is that you assume scum me pulled this elaborate plan but then failed at the end. Please give me more credit. If I was going to actually try stopping the Fonti yeet I'd have had a specific target after the reveal, not this. The Fonti wagon is still rolling through inertia. 9 out of 10 Fonti is still the yeet and the only thing I see possibly changing that is if Osi pulls out some amazing reads. If I planned this whole thing I wouldn't be caught "scrambling" at the end.

It wasn't at the time you wrote your case. But I suppose I should entertain the possibility that fonti is Town and it's only you that's scum in this scenario.

 

[Malakandra]

SPOILER="Some Wam posts, with some thoughts, and some questions"]

Yeah as someone with a similar meta at one point I have used the same defence as scum several times. My vote is now serious.

I feel I'm in the wrong time zone for this game!

For Kary, chaco and malak are your boom votes serious?

This tracks well with itself, only mentioning because the vote is now serious stuff pinged as weird originally.

Dark Horse - I like the mindset behind the questions just a bit suspicious that they don't have many of their opinions out there.
Pythag - pretty much identical read to Dark horse

This still seems odd to me. He has Dark Horse and Pythag in town, and bundles them together, but mentions being suspicious of them, yet places them above an uncertain category.

Meta question is day chat common here? As it wasnt on xkcd and if its not the below look like slips to me as how would I be coached?

And how would you know that?

I see 3 options below kn order of descending likelihood.

1. It was in some of the pre game stuff and I missed it.
2. Sabrar has some power role he is hunting at.
3. Sabrar is scum who has made a truly stupid mistake

This feels like a very odd tangent to go on for scum who would know this one thing. It was with two now confirmed towns, I think it feels sorta genuine too.

Is this too blatant a font chaco link. I'm going back on fourth if this is a blatant push to save a buddy. Or even a blatant push to look good if chaco flips town.

Wam did you ever make up your mind on this?

I appreciate the attempt just be blunt though!
I would point out I think i get better as the game goes on. Others may disagree.

Do you think you've gotten better this game later on?

That's the post above. The explanation kept changing. It came across a scrabbling. It was definitely presented as here are our notes from then. Then chaco pointed out an incosigentcy that didnt fit that which was weird and looked iffy to me. Then the response wasnt good either.

Thoguhts tracks somewhat well, mention of Chaco sheeping 1.

Ebwop as the above makes no sense.

1) the review is the post above.
2) the notes were presented as here is our development on chaco it has much less relevance if they are edited/written later.
3) I agree with chaco that it is a weird inconsistency to have gorf/font in the notes in the pattern above.
4) Notes edited in this way make me much more likely to believe they were polished up to give a towny look which is scummy.
5) when the inconsistency in the notes was point I viewed the responses from sync as scrabbling and inconsistent

mention of Chaco sheeping 2

What does scum chaco get by lying above.

On phone trying to catch up with everything!

Mention of Chaco

I agree but its already been answered. I'm suspicious of them not claiming now and will be very suspicious if they pull one out the bag later.

Odd double standard of being in a much worse scenario with the day 1 yeet, and not claiming. Wam what makes it suspicious for Synch not to claim earlier, and not you when you were on L-1?

I have had the below written for a while was hoping to get Malala responses but will go for it anyway. So that I can do responses tongiht rather than at work tomorrow.

Right thoughts time. I have two completely different set of thoughts on the game.



1) Summary

Scum team is Font, Malak plus 1 other.

Background

Font - I had suspicions day 1 of Gorf, both of sync heads called font scum and I agree with their logic and it matches my read.

Malak - The posting at end of the day was very telling. The wagon on sync was wavering and the conter wagon on font was starting at the last possible second. I was debating switching then Malak hammered sync with 6 minutes left. I have seen wagons shift faster at EOD. It definitely came across as shutting off discussion around fonti.

These thougts track with suspicions of Fonti.

Sabrar was an obvious doc/watcher target if we have one.

This one hurts my feelings.

Right thoughts on Boom's case on Fonti. BoomFrog

I am going to start by saying I started the day suspecting fonti so I'm not the hard sell on this.

Point 1 that is a cool photo
Point 2 I'm not 100% sold on fonti sabotaging town reads, but the general town of trying to avoid strong reads ties in with what I thought day 2.
Point 3 I agree the behaviour with Sync was weird.

My main question is Boom this works if Font has control of the kill do you think the others are just going along?

As well I believe in Day 2 you described font as trying to solve (I cant find the post). When I stated I felt they were coasting without any results. What changed your mind day 2 for the font vote at the end? I may have missed it.

The DH/Huery issue is interesting I see flame's point and it does allow us to confirm my powers as well. My only question is would a DH flip of scum give us any information for the solve.

Wam seems to be weighing the DH and Fonti yeets to see which one works better.
[/SPOILER]

Conclusions on Wam after he responds.

 

[Malakandra]

rip my spoiler

 

[Malakandra]

sorry guys, I tried to make it take up less space

 

[Malakandra]

oh and the things about mentions of Chaco were seeing if there were posts before hand that show that Wam would be considering neighborizing Chaco

 

[Wam]

Malakandra

No I didnt make my mind up until it was overcome by events.

I think I couldnt have got worse! I was sold kn sync = scum but clearly wrong.

Sync not claiming was by stating it clearly in a way that was like look at me so townie I'm not going to claim to try and save myself. I just left all role discussions out.

 

[fontisian]

It's DH/Pythag/Laser. Go back and read the first 200 posts, they gave the game away.

Dark Horse and Pythag have this super weird extended interaction to start off the game:

Spoiler

Pythag what made you pick boomfrog over malak

I just don’t have the HBC mindset in me

Pythag what makes the boomfrog push less HBC than malak? Your vote tied the wagons.

I wouldn't really consider the malak wagon to be true rvs because it felt like people were trying to make it into a pressure wagon. At the very least your vote on me seemed like a zero content vote at a time where people were trying to create content. My question was nothing super groundbreaking so I'm surprised by your response.

While you're at it.

DH askes Pythag about his vote on Boom over Mala, Pythag doesn't have a real reason, DH keeps pushing, some scum tend to specifically seek out partners for this kind of interaction early, but it's not damning.

im actually surprised you’re taking this stance.
I viewed it similarly to gorf and wasn’t about to try to “yeet” someone who hadn’t posted, so boom was the choice.
Regardless, A tied wagon is much more interesting from my perspective.

This is where is gets weird. This response from Pythag was not about something directed to him, it was directed to Gorf. He just assumes DH is still chatting with him and moves back in to the conversation.

Fair explanation

When I had posted my question the only people who had posted and hadn't voted either of the two were gorf and chaco. Chaco was asking some questions which made me think that he might just be playing it slow but gorf only had one post so I was curious what his thoughts on the situation were.

DH doesn't acknowledge that weirdness, calls Pythag's response fair, and starts explaining himself.

The viewpoint overall. I don’t know dark horse well enough to be comparing his meta, so apologies i wasn’t trying to go there

Pythag also just doesn't have a reason he's surprised by DH's viewpoint and felt like butting in to say that? He says he doesn't know DH at all, and doesn't have a real explanation, but "im actually surprised /you’re/ taking this stance" is absolutely a statement about DH specifically. It doesn't make sense unless he's closer to DH than he lets on, and that only makes sense if they're chatting about this in scumchat as well.

Then the Gorf/DH fight happens. A lot of people come out of it voting Gorf or saying both DH and Gorf look bad. Not Pythag:

I think this actually makes me lean “dumb” rather than scum on DH.

He knows Gorf is town and treats him like someone to be convinced, and tries to persuade him that DH is just being dumb, not scum. Why does he think DH is town here, despite not liking his stance earlier? I don't know, Pythag never explains.

Man what is this response.

If anything your question is worse now that you say you don't have strong opinions on malak/boomfrog. You thought it was just an rvs wagon but you were still trying to get wam to scumread people on the wagon?

And for all of this talk you're still not answering my question or really giving any feed back on a lot of the state of the game. I'll ask you a third and final time.

Vote: Gorf we move

DH, who was talking to Pythag for a while before this, knows this looks weird from Pythag, so he doesn't acknowledge it, and keeps up the tunnel on Gorf.

I still don’t understand how my tone was defensive at all, it was in not understanding why DH chose to ask me, seemingly randomly, about my stance on An RVS shenanigan. My knee jerk reaction was that he was scum tryna cash in on easy content, and I still think that can be it, but I can see how it’s dumb town, just like his vote on me above. Really dumb, can’t honestly say if it’s scummy or not at this point. I actually DO think there’s something wrong with randomly asking for people’s thoughts or stances on things, its baby content and it’s easy for scum to do that instead of actually tryna get their hands dirty.

@xkcd players don’t worry, my town meta is that everyone scumreads me and my scum meta is that everyone townreads me so it should be clear what side you guys should fall to

Yeah as someone with a similar meta at one point I have used the same defence as scum several times. My vote is now serious.

@xkcd players don’t worry, my town meta is that people don’t understand when I say something as a joke and take dumb things I say seriously and my scum meta is that everybody understands when I say something as a joke and don’t take dumb things I say seriously so it should be clear what side you guys should fall to

Gorf looks objectively pretty bad here. Other players (like town!Wam and Somi) know it. He's floundering and being overly defensive, so it's looks scummy, but Pythag knows he's town, and doesn't see it.

I'm liking Dark Horse's content so far and have a solid Town lean on them at the moment.

Gorf comes across as tonally very hostile. I'm not yet certain if that is just their personality or if that is scum motivated, so I don't think I'm going to move there just yet.

I'm really liking somitomi's "all-snark all-the-time" this game. I also get townie vibes from him.

Btw. before I forget and spend a whole game getting it wrong again, does anyone besides bessie prefer female pronouns?

Laser sees an opportunity, Gorf looks bad so there's room to push Dark Horse as town. Never mind that DH's push isn't even that towny and Laser isn't scumreading Gorf, who he expects will start to look towny sooner or later.

Sorry, long day yesterday and I no longer work in IT so I'm not in front of a computer all the time.


Unsorted and paper thin reads :

Town :
Chaco - Townie vibes
Dh - I don't like gorf trying to make DH look scummy, I interpret his posts as eager.
gorf - the defensive argument that was trying to be built on him was reaaaaly sketch. It seemed like he and I were thinking similarly wrt to the wagons. we're on the same page...until he ascends.
Sab - I think I've liked everything he's posted.

Null :
LG - I admittedly need to reread, but LG seems to be skirting by on the good faith of others (that's opinion pre-reread).
Kary - playing to his meta. Nothing to see here. maybe a town lean, but still relatively null.
Synchronicity - If this account starts arguing in bad faith/mudding the waters kill it immediately.
somitomi - No idea on this slot yet.
Boom - This is kinda a toss up. I actually didn't like his placement on the malarky wagon, seemed like he was trying too hard to be HBC, so I personally thought his wagon would be more benefictial for me to be on (I think this answers your question Kary). However, I don't think him following up with a write up of his views is a very scum move. Tonally he appears different to me this match, though.

Scummy :

Wam - I don't think I've really liked a single one of his posts. I also don't get him jumping on the gorf train.
FF - I'm not saying it's scummy that you didn't read the rules, but that does seem very out of character for you. I didn't seem to understand your position on gorf. That seemed very odd to me.

I may have forgotten people, I'm about to go work out and then will come back to do some more reading and have questions.

unvote
vote : Frozenflame

Somi called this out at the time. DH and Gorf being in Pythag's top town makes no sense, and "I don't like gorf trying to make DH look scummy, I interpret his posts as eager" isn't a reason to townread DH, it's just a reason to scumread Gorf. Here, and in other places, Pythag is telling us the truth. He doesn't like gorf trying to call DH scummy, because DH is his partner and he wants to townread him.

Vote: Chaco

Don't have time to go through the details right now. Will discuss later this evening.

Laser somehow doesn't see any of this, and diverts us towards Chaco.

Okay, so DH is town because you don't like Gorf throwing shade on him, but Gorf... is also town? Am I missing something?

Instead it's Somi of all people who actually notices that nothing Pythag is saying makes sense.

if Gorf is calling DH dumb or scum, He's also saying he's contributing without contributing, which would be scummy, not dummy.
But then gorf also backs off saying that he doesn't understand DH's intent, when he just gave examples of what the intent could be.

Now that's something I could understand putting a vote for.

@somitomi do you think there's no way that DH v Gorf could have been TvT?



Aren't you like, currently a lawyer?

I guess I don't buy the 'defensive' read people are getting from gorf. That struck me as a lousy reason to find him scummy, but I wasn't considering pressure votes. I'll eat my humble pie here if I'm wrong about this, no questions asked.

Pythag responds by saying he could vote Gorf is Gorf is actually providing reasons to go after DH. Then he swings back and tries to get Somi, who suspects both of them, to wonder if Gorf and DH could both be town, instead of the logical next step with his reads of asking Somi if Gorf could be scum and DH town. And he still doesn't have a reason to townread Gorf, he just knows the defensiveness push is wrong because he knows Gorf is town.

Well, I didn't understand the people finding gorf defensive.
So that'd be why I didn't 'understand' your position, it's not that it was incomprehensible, I just didn't get pushing for that reason. I guess I didn't see it as a shift, but evidently I didn't make that clear.

As to your bird-lawyerings, I'll buy that response.

unvote

outside of the defensiveness from gorf, do you have any thoughts on what I just posted?

See above.

Pythag how does the gorf quote you brought up change the situation? Does it change anything or do you still view gorf and I as TvT?

On one hand I feel like somi’s been pretty light on meaningful content and despite what people have said earlier someone of her recent posts come off as very guarded to me. On the other hand I like the fact that she noticed this. Hmmmm

DH knows Pythag has ****ed up now and tries to salvage the situation by getting Pythag to talk more about him v gorf being TvT, to give Pythag space to make a coherent position. And he knows Somi is onto them now and he needs to head it off, so he undermines Somi in the first part of the post and then acknowledges that Somi found something real, because that's the only way he knows how to deal with town being right.