Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[Synchronicity]

You mean it was page 10 when you made that shotgun read, surely?

"It" being the position in my read through.

I am not convinced Mala is town, and I don't think you should differ to everyone else. Most players get most of their judgement from tone. The ones who read deeper in this game are you, me, Fonti and LaserGuy. 3 of those 4 are suspicious of Mala and LG is the most likely candidate to be Mala's scummate independently of this. So, I'm confused why you said the above.

Fonti backed off here. And both Dark Horse and Pythag have strong town reads of Mala.

Why would scum!you not NE Sabrar? He's a solid player. I'll agree you'd likely leave him alive if wam is town and NE him if wam is a scummate. I don't put much stock in NE analysis generally anyway.

There was a game where you defended bessie based on the point that she would never kill Sabrar N1.

I know Xivii does, it doesn’t feel like typical Xivii proving though to me. I would expect to see more solidified reads like Xivii typically does this far into D2. He tends to bounce around on a PoEof likely scummers and I don’t see that as much here. It’s either uncertainty or unfamiliar play.

You don't know Xivii, stop pretending that you do. The only players with a decent understanding of Xivii/bessie are Laser and Boom.

Synchronicity Synchronicity For the record, I haven't intentionally been scummy as a gambit, that's mostly the result of my lack of presence D1 and a strong player base pushing things to PoE evaluations. But I'll agree I've not been concentrating on acting townie like I did in Vanilla.

This is concerning. Why did you make that post about how no one should have a town read on you?

differ

defer

I haven't read Laser vs Fonti yet.

 

[Synchronicity]

Boom (null/scum) that’s not to say I think boom is town.

Did you edit this?

 

[Malakandra]

In line for food, will play more later.

Laserguys post feels town to me, this is so different than what I saw from him past game.

Synchronicity where do you get that Pythag has a strong town read of me. irrc he's been suss of my most game and has me as question marks

 

[Pythag]

Did you edit this?

no? I was on my phone though, if I accidentally pressed the edit button I apologize, but I did not edit a post

 

[Synchronicity]

Mala (???) I really don’t know what Mala is doing.

Also wth elaborate on this

 

[Synchronicity]

no? I was on my phone though, if I accidentally pressed the edit button I apologize, but I did not edit a post

I mean when you made it. You say Boom is null/scum but then say that's not to say that he's town. Did you mean scum?

 

[Malakandra]

Mala (???) I really don’t know what Mala is doing.

I'm obviously checks rolecard hmm that needs to be updated, uh yeeter. My goal is to yeet Synchronicity.

 

[Synchronicity]

Synchronicity Synchronicity where do you get that Pythag has a strong town read of me. irrc he's been suss of my most game and has me as question marks

Could have interpreted it wrong. That's the impression I had from a post earlier regarding me vs you.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

okay so what I'm learning from this is that fonti v laser was also a thing on Day 1, and that had somehow escaped my notice.

fontisian you need to give reads. You didn't give them on Day 1 until AFTER the votes were already laid down, not helpful whatsoever.

I'm also taking away from your extended pirouette corkscrew takedown vote on laser that you're not voting synchro today?

I asked you this directly in #1275 and this is the 3rd time I'm chasing you for an answer today. I realize I snapped at you on Day 1 for sticking your oar in where it wasn't wanted but this is some extreme levels of SMS "✓ Seen" energy.

 

[Pythag]

I mean when you made it. You say Boom is null/scum but then say that's not to say that he's town. Did you mean scum?

potentially. I meant more to say I have a null read on him more than anything else.

 

[Synchronicity]

Ok so you meant scum. Anyway, I'd like to know what you find confusing about Mala and also them juicy deets on what you believe Kary's case to be is.

 

[Pythag]

Ok so you meant scum. Anyway, I'd like to know what you find confusing about Mala and also them juicy deets on what you believe Kary's case to be is.

You made a huge show about chaco, and then a huge show about FF, and after neither of those picked up steam, you're just happy to lynch whomever.

1. The only reason why he is a good lynch candidate is because of the way the wagons turned out.

Ok, I can accept that.

I didn't yeet somi for info. There wasn't any info to gain from his yeet D1 nor was there any info to gain from wam's. I don't believe in information lynches like that in general, it's pretty silly.

HARD DISAGREE here. Nothing to gain from a Wam lynch? are you serious?
the Somi wagon manifested with WAY less conversation. just a flash 'let's yeet somi and almost immediately somi was dead.'
Wam had been discussed virtually the entire day, and as Sab pointed out there was RESISTANCE to the wam lynch.
We would've learned quite a bit from the Wam lynch, and you totally squandered that opportunity. Everyone on the Somi lynch did.

I do believe in information lynches when it's based on sufficiently competitive EoD wagons in which the winning wagon flipped town and condition 2 below is met. It's the wagon formations where the info lies, and they cannot be adequately analyzed without knowing the alignment of both players. This would actually be less important if there was consensus that the somi wagon built up incidentally, but enough people are basing their reads off of EoD that we should flip wam so that we do it properly rather than end up with a chain of misyeets based off uninformed assumptions.

but you haven't shown yourself interested in the information, just the lynch.

2. Wam is suspicious enough that it's a good yeet in general.
[/quoteI didn't feel this way yesterday. The only thing that pinged me yesterday was this post here:
It came across as LAMIST (Look at Me I'm So Townie). Still it was a small ping and wasn't enough to override my meta read. It wasn't until he did the same thing today with Mala that I became Fry, his eyes narrowed:
The timing of it just didn't seem organic to me, which I explained here:
Like why mention his Mala view right there. And his response elaborating on his read was based off the weakest stuff. Mala is unsure town because his Frozen read is different than yesterday? Why isn't everyone who has a different read from yesterday unsure town? If you read back from this time, you can see this where my view him starts to change. And then he made this post:
Which again felt like LAMIST/TMI setting himself to look good by vanity voting someone no one was wagoning while everyone else clashed among themselves. And that's when I voted him.

So what do you think of Mala's memeing and such? If Wam is being LAMIST than what do you make of mala's responses?
Why does Wam ping you yet the other one you find townie?

 

[Synchronicity]

You made a huge show about chaco, and then a huge show about FF, and after neither of those picked up steam, you're just happy to lynch whomever.

Nope. Never went after Chaco, that was LaserGuy my dude. I also never made a show about Frozen. And even if you believed I did, my reads were Kary, Frozen, and Fonti. And I did indeed pursue Kary.

See, this is why I wanted you to explain your take because it's completely made up of made up ****.

HARD DISAGREE here. Nothing to gain from a Wam lynch? are you serious?
the Somi wagon manifested with WAY less conversation. just a flash 'let's yeet somi and almost immediately somi was dead.'
Wam had been discussed virtually the entire day, and as Sab pointed out there was RESISTANCE to the wam lynch.
We would've learned quite a bit from the Wam lynch, and you totally squandered that opportunity. Everyone on the Somi lynch did.

Uh huh, and you're not pushing wam because?

but you haven't shown yourself interested in the information, just the lynch.

lol isn't that what this whole thing is about? I've stated that my intention is information a number of times:

We can't make any conclusions like that without knowing wam's flip. He actually might not be a bad play for that reason.

No, your flip tells us how we should proceed with the game. We aren't able to draw any conclusions about the wagons yesterday without it. I also despise your Mala read.

I think his town read of Mala is yucky. And his town read of somi.

Flipping for info isn't always the best, but there are circumstances where it is, and this is one of them.

So please tell me more about how I'm not interested in the info.

So what do you think of Mala's memeing and such? If Wam is being LAMIST than what do you make of mala's responses?
Why does Wam ping you yet the other one you find townie?

Oh yes I totally think Mala is town

 

[Synchronicity]

Let's hear about that Mala progression pythag :3

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Town!You: This is confirmation bias—you're ignoring contradictory evidence and picking out pieces that fit your narrative. I pushed you despite you universally being high on people's read list. Additionally, Frozen is actually fairly easy to lynch and there was more than enough support in that direction yesterday. If scum!me wanted to yeet town!Frozen, I was more than capable of doing so. However, even if you don't believe that, the fact that I was pushing for him today contradicts your argument.

I don't see how it's confirmation bias, when the evidence you bring up isn't even accurate. For one thing, I was not high on people's reads at all.

I'd like each of your takes on this. My goal is to show that Kary's reasoning is insincere. I am just an easy player he can sit his vote on under the excuse of "It's Xivii! omg im so mad at Xivii raaaawr." There is no goal of actually figuring out this slots alignment.

His argument is that I am avoiding going after "strong players like frozen and himself" as stated below:
I responded by pointing out that I did indeed go after a "strong player," him Day 1. Yet his response to this, in the quote up above, is to suggest that he wasn't someone difficult to yeet. This completely contradicts his original argument. Are you all able to see how he is adjusting his case to whatever I say? There's no real sincerity behind it.

Hey it's the Day 1 version of you where you twist my words again.

Being high on people's town reads is very easy to verify. I recall only frozen putting me at a town read before you cased me. Which is not what 'universal' means by any stretch of the imagination.

Being high on people's list is NOT the same as being a strong player.

my argument is sound and you are a shameless equivocating rake

 

[Pythag]

Nope. Never went after Chaco, that was LaserGuy my dude. I also never made a show about Frozen. And even if you believed I did, my reads were Kary, Frozen, and Fonti. And I did indeed pursue Kary.

LOL that's my bad. Were laser and Kary really the only ones riding Chaco then?

See, this is why I wanted you to explain your take because it's completely made up of made up ****.

Yeah, fair enough. I'd like to say not made up, but rather presumed from what I could remember.

Uh huh, and you're not pushing wam because?

Well, because I thought you were scum trying to just kill a townie. Seeing as I had built things incorrectly, I'm kinda caught with my pants down now.

lol isn't that what this whole thing is about? I've stated that my intention is information a number of times:

So please tell me more about how I'm not interested in the info.

I still think it's kinda bs for you to claim that a wam D1 is the same as a somi lynch D1. I do not view those at the same at all, and you seeing them as the same is odd.

 

[Synchronicity]

K: You talk about liking cake but keep eating pie
S: I did eat cake though. I liked the vanilla one.
K: That wasn't vanilla, it was strawberry.
S: Oh, ok but the point is I ate cake...
K: STAWP EQUIVOCAKING

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Everything else you've addressed in this post is fair. I don't need any responses to these. On the whole you've dismantled my case.

 

[Synchronicity]

I still think it's kinda bs for you to claim that a wam D1 is the same as a somi lynch D1. I do not view those at the same at all, and you seeing them as the same is odd.

Like I said, I don't agree with "Lynching X gives us info" on Day 1. It wasn't about lynching someone for info, it was about lynching someone who I thought was scum. And I didn't think wam was scum.

If you can show me one example where lynching town (which I believed wam to be) on Day 1 directly led to identifying scum, I'll change my mind.

 

[Synchronicity]

-

And your argument is?

That if I'm proven wrong I should continue to pursue that wrong avenue?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

This is where I'm at right now. I started typing up my full reads to get my thoughts in order, but I don't have time to finish them tonight.

TOWN Mala, Chaco, Frozen, Dark Horse, Laser, Pythag, Wam, Boom, Fonti, Sync SCUM

 

[fontisian]

Right, sorry Kary, sometimes I see questions that have easy answers when I'm checking in on my phone, think I'll get to them when I'm on my laptop, and then promptly forget they ever existed.

So you're saying that it is completely NAI from you, and you always try and help new players in every game?

I don't think it's NAI. I tend to help new players every game, yeah, but there's probably something alignment indicative in how and when I decide to do it.

 

[Pythag]

Like I said, I don't agree with "Lynching X gives us info" on Day 1. It wasn't about lynching someone for info, it was about lynching someone who I thought was scum. And I didn't think wam was scum.

If you can show me one example where lynching town (which I believed wam to be) on Day 1 directly led to identifying scum, I'll change my mind.

Ah I see where our wires got crossed. I wasn't arguing for a D1 info lynch, I was just arguing that one lynch arguably produced more info than another, because you had said

I didn't yeet somi for info. There wasn't any info to gain from his yeet D1 nor was there any info to gain from wam's.

technically all lynches produce info. this sentence just seemed really careless to write

 

[#HBC | Kary]

And your argument is?

That if I'm proven wrong I should continue to pursue that wrong avenue?

You're not Socrates and this isn't 20 questions. You've had all Day phase to engage with me in good faith, but you still don't understand what my argument is?

#1275

 

[Synchronicity]

You're going in circles, Cake. So let's stop talking to each other.

Having an asian lady with an authoritative come at me bro pose while having a minimalist nonchalant tone can only make you look townie for so long.

 

[Chaco]

"It" being the position in my read through.

Fonti backed off here. And both Dark Horse and Pythag have strong town reads of Mala.

There was a game where you defended bessie based on the point that she would never kill Sabrar N1.


You don't know Xivii, stop pretending that you do. The only players with a decent understanding of Xivii/bessie are Laser and Boom.


This is concerning. Why did you make that post about how no one should have a town read on you?


defer

I haven't read Laser vs Fonti yet.

Why do you get so mad at me when I form meta on you? It’s plain to see you always probe different directions; that can be said from the last two games I’ve played with you stand alone.

 

[fontisian]

fontisian @LaserGuy BoomFrog #HBC | FrozeηFlame Pythag

I'd like each of your takes on this. My goal is to show that Kary's reasoning is insincere. I am just an easy player he can sit his vote on under the excuse of "It's Xivii! omg im so mad at Xivii raaaawr." There is no goal of actually figuring out this slots alignment.

His argument is that I am avoiding going after "strong players like frozen and himself" as stated below:
I responded by pointing out that I did indeed go after a "strong player," him Day 1. Yet his response to this, in the quote up above, is to suggest that he wasn't someone difficult to yeet. This completely contradicts his original argument. Are you all able to see how he is adjusting his case to whatever I say? There's no real sincerity behind it.

Uh, you see that Kary's saying you're ok pushing for stronger players but at eod your vote ended up on an easy target, right?

 

[fontisian]

#HBC | Kary

I think you really need to get the idea that Mala is painfully new outside of your head. He's played a few games now, and he knows how to play scum.

 

[fontisian]

okay so what I'm learning from this is that fonti v laser was also a thing on Day 1, and that had somehow escaped my notice.

fontisian you need to give reads. You didn't give them on Day 1 until AFTER the votes were already laid down, not helpful whatsoever.

I'm also taking away from your extended pirouette corkscrew takedown vote on laser that you're not voting synchro today?

I asked you this directly in #1275 and this is the 3rd time I'm chasing you for an answer today. I realize I snapped at you on Day 1 for sticking your oar in where it wasn't wanted but this is some extreme levels of SMS "✓ Seen" energy.

Oh, also, I'll give reads when I'm ready to. Not sure on the not voting Syn thing, but I'm leaning towards that.

 

[Chaco]

I may have said this before but Kary v Synch doesn’t feel TvT at all.

 

[fontisian]

There was a game where you defended bessie based on the point that she would never kill Sabrar N1.

You have said there is no Bessie or Xivii, only Synchronicity. Why would Bessie's preferences for not shooting Sabrar matter here, when she's subordinating her identity to the hydra?

 

[fontisian]

I may have said this before but Kary v Synch doesn’t feel TvT at all.

No, man, you just say that about everyone and Syn.

 

[Synchronicity]

You have said there is no Bessie or Xivii, only Synchronicity. Why would Bessie's preferences for not shooting Sabrar matter here, when she's subordinating her identity to the hydra?

This was a question for Boom mate.

 

[fontisian]

This was a question for Boom mate.

I know. I want to know if it's a valid way to read your slot in this game.

 

[Synchronicity]

No, the question was meant to get a grasp of Boom's perspective. Thanks though.

 

[fontisian]

No, the question was meant to get a grasp of Boom's perspective. Thanks though.

I am so confused. You're saying it's not a valid way to read you, yeah? And the "thanks though" is there because?

Should I just drop this?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Ill have more time later tonight but ive been trying to skim on my phone in the meantime to keep up, couple things:

Chaco now saying he "got town pings from me D1 but hasnt seen much of me today" feels heavy like he's setting up a pivot on me now that Im openly expressing concerns re: a chaco snow

#HBC | Kary why chaco so high on your town list?

Laser's "solve" is insanely abrubt but feels genuine at the same time. My big problem with the slot all game is that it feels like he pops in very infrequently and all of his posts feel very narrow in scope, I feel like I can find LGs takes on particular exchanges and a couple of slots, so his confidence on having a full solve is jarring to me because I havent seen any kind of big picture takes from the slot till now

I know a couple slots were keen to flashyeet laser D1 so need to look back for congruence on that

 

[Synchronicity]

Why do you get so mad at me when I form meta on you? It’s plain to see you always probe different directions; that can be said from the last two games I’ve played with you stand alone.

Frankly put, you don't have enough data to form meta on him. So it's insulting. Imagine if I saw you at ihop once and started saying things like "since when has Chaco never been an ihop guy."

 

[fontisian]

Vote: Boomfrog

 

[BoomFrog]

I'd like each of your takes on this.

Kary was low on my list until the start of D2 and my impression is low on others lists in general besides Fonti and maybe DH?

I responded by pointing out that I did indeed go after a "strong player," him Day 1. Yet his response to this, in the quote up above, is to suggest that he wasn't someone difficult to yeet. This completely contradicts his original argument. Are you all able to see how he is adjusting his case to whatever I say? There's no real sincerity behind it.

My understanding of Kary's argument is that you challenged strong players mid Day but at the end of the day picked off yeet-bait. This is factually correct and a legitimate concern and you seem to be missing his point.

There was a game where you defended bessie based on the point that she would never kill Sabrar N1.

Hmm. Sounds vaguely familiar. Also, Fonti ninja'd my joke about Bessie not being in the game. But anyway, my current impression is that Sync would NE Sabrar to protect scummate!wam as that's the right strategic move even if it pained the Bessie head. It's not as severe an issue since Sabrar doesn't get habitually NKed N1 on these boards. I'll agree a Sabrar NE is severely unlikely if Sync is scum and wam is town.

This is concerning. Why did you make that post about how no one should have a town read on you?

Because even if I didn't do it on purpose the effect is the same. People who don't know me well, in the circumstances at the start of D2 should be finding me scummy. Especially as a whole bunch of people warned of my meta early D1. Not doing so is deviant and suspicious.

I may have said this before but Kary v Synch doesn’t feel TvT at all.

Agreed with Fonti, (must... not.. like post...) this feels a lot like TvT. You are confirmation biasing.