Theory on yet unrevealed characters and the WiiU/Future Unannounced DLC Discussion

[Aeon Lupin]

Just a quickie

Another pyrosphere picture and still no purple dragon in sight.

It just astounds me how most don't find this the least bit fishy.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

It just astounds me how most don't find this the least bit fishy.

Its almost like this is a sign hes going to have more than 1 role we know 1 is a boss its like a sign he has 2

 

[Aeon Lupin]

Its almost like this is a sign hes going to have more than 1 role we know 1 is a boss its like a sign he has 2

The thing is, we don't his role at all. We don't know if he is going to have 2 roles, or if 1 is just it.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

The thing is, we don't his role at all. We don't know if he is going to have 2 roles, or if 1 is just it.

Im guessing you have not seen this.

Hes in but role(s) is unknown

So far boss due to not in the non-dlc final on the 3ds

Howevet 0% role in the 3ds version not even a collectable trophy, and the data dump does not count due to being his brawl data dump.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

Im guessing you have not seen this.

Hes in but role(s) is unknown

So far boss due to not in the non-dlc final on the 3ds

Howevet 0% role in the 3ds version not even a collectable trophy, and the data dump does not count due to being his brawl data dump.

That's precisely what I meant. Sakurai just said more boss characters, not that Ridley is a boss. At this moment, we don't know Ridley's role.

 

[Drclaw411]

It just astounds me how most don't find this the least bit fishy.

Quite frankly, I think it's just Sakurai trolling. I think he finds the Ridley trolling funny.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I find it strange that Pyrosphere has hardly any information going for it at the time.
Sakurai is obviously hiding something from us...

 

[Dyguren]

He is hidding everything from us lol, we barely know anything about the wii u version, hopefully he will talk about new stuff in the potd other than trophies or stages, like modes or something actually hyping...

 

[Aeon Lupin]

Quite frankly, I think it's just Sakurai trolling. I think he finds the Ridley trolling funny.

Yes, he's trolling, but the question is, who is he trolling?

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Yes, he's trolling, but the question is, who is he trolling?

Mewtwo and Ridley fans.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Quite frankly, I think it's just Sakurai trolling. I think he finds the Ridley trolling funny.

Honestly, I think he's just hyping him as a Stage Hazard, but doesn't realize people think it means something more. I don't see trolling, just a blatant misunderstanding. Of course, it could be more, but he thinks very oddly from us.

 

[Dyguren]

Honestly, I think he's just hyping him as a Stage Hazard, but doesn't realize people think it means something more. I don't see trolling, just a blatant misunderstanding. Of course, it could be more, but he thinks very oddly from us.

Clearly Sakurai needs to get more involved with what his community fans desire for all these years. A successful game director is that who listens to the audience and takes the best from their ideas along his.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Clearly Sakurai needs to get more involved with what his community fans desire for all these years. A successful game director is that who listens to the audience and takes the best from their ideas along his.

Oddly enough, some stuff does look like it was taken from Project M, but it's more of a coincidence in some cases. He cut Transformations due to the 3DS limitations. The balance part was just a plus to this. That, and less lag. Honestly, Brawl's lag was horrific. Melee's wasn't an issue, though.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Honestly, I think he's just hyping him as a Stage Hazard, but doesn't realize people think it means something more. I don't see trolling, just a blatant misunderstanding. Of course, it could be more, but he thinks very oddly from us.

Man im sorry but its just too odd to me that ridley was not revealed at this time

1 there's that Spain killer rumor

2 is fate was still not revealed ever since the April direct

3 he has 0% role in the 3DS version (hes just to famus to not have a role in smash bros even version exclusive he famus enough for both.)



I just think they're maybe temporary wii u exclusive playables then a patch release for the 3ds version that puts them in.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Man im sorry but its just too odd to me that ridley was not revealed at this time

1 there's that Spain killer rumor

2 is fate was still not revealed ever since the April direct

3 he has 0% role in the 3DS version (hes just to famus to not have a role in smash bros even version exclusive he famus enough for both.)



I just think they're maybe temporary wii u exclusive playables then a patch release for the 3ds version that puts them in.

You have to remember that Sakurai clearly doesn't think like we do. So what's odd to you might be normal to him. Look, I want him to be playable. I really do. But he may not be. He may just be a lowly Stage Hazard. He may be just an Assist Trophy(I actually think playable or an AT is more likely at this point due to this constant refusal to reveal him as a hazard). But guess what? It might not be anything special.

I don't take rumors like that into account since again, rumors aren't that useful. A lot of stuff is made up. But I'm not going to let my bias/preference for him being playable blind me to all possibilities. I would just rather he came out with it. Yes, he could be a hazard. I don't know why it's that hard to believe it as a possibility. Regardless of likeliness.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree that I think Sakurai just isn't on the same page as Ridley fans. From that interview where he talked about it, it seems like he has just never considered Ridely to be a playable character.
That's not to say he has no regard for Ridley. Ridley has appeared in some form in all Smash Bros. games. In Brawl, Ridley was TWO different bosses. But since Smash 4 is not getting a story mode, Sakurai likely thought that transferring some bosses over as stage hazards would be a good way to keep them in the game. Logically, Ridley would make a great stage boss--on Pyrosphere, the level based on where Samus fought Ridley as a boss in Other M.

This stage is exclusive to the Wii U version, and for whatever reason, he has only teased Ridley as a boss. But I'm sorry people, Ridley is a boss. It makes too much sense.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

This stage is exclusive to the Wii U version, and for whatever reason, he has only teased Ridley as a boss. But I'm sorry people, Ridley is a boss. It makes too much sense.

It doesn't make too much sense to tease a boss, who is among the most requested characters for a frickin YEAR.

 

[The Quarter Master]

I agree that I think Sakurai just isn't on the same page as Ridley fans. From that interview where he talked about it, it seems like he has just never considered Ridely to be a playable character.
That's not to say he has no regard for Ridley. Ridley has appeared in some form in all Smash Bros. games. In Brawl, Ridley was TWO different bosses. But since Smash 4 is not getting a story mode, Sakurai likely thought that transferring some bosses over as stage hazards would be a good way to keep them in the game. Logically, Ridley would make a great stage boss--on Pyrosphere, the level based on where Samus fought Ridley as a boss in Other M.

This stage is exclusive to the Wii U version, and for whatever reason, he has only teased Ridley as a boss. But I'm sorry people, Ridley is a boss. It makes too much sense.

OH MY GOD. You don't know that. Quit acting like you do. He could be a character OR a boss. Or both. You don't know jack. Quit talking like you know jack.

Trust me, I know jack, and he is NOT a nice guy.

 

[NATGamer]

I don't understand a few things that Sakurai did with Smash 4. Some examples are, why make the Wii U version be limited due to the 3DS' limitations? Why were popular Brawl characters (Lucas, Wolf) cut? Why didn't he listen to the fans and bring back the MOST REQUESTED character around the world, Mewtwo?

But my biggest gripe is why would you tease one of the most requested characters in Smash history unbelievably and NOT include him?! This is mainly why I hope to god that Ridley is in the Wii U version and Sakurai was just being a troll. Until possibly Novemeber 21st, we will just have to play the game all Smash fans are amazing at, the waiting game.

 

[Rymi]

Clearly Sakurai needs to get more involved with what his community fans desire for all these years. A successful game director is that who listens to the audience and takes the best from their ideas along his.

some fans dont know what they want and plus isent that how we got villager megaman etc...?

 

[Rymi]

I don't understand a few things that Sakurai did with Smash 4. Some examples are, why make the Wii U version be limited due to the 3DS' limitations? Why were popular Brawl characters (Lucas, Wolf) cut? Why didn't he listen to the fans and bring back the MOST REQUESTED character around the world, Mewtwo?

But my biggest gripe is why would you tease one of the most requested characters in Smash history unbelievably and NOT include him?! This is mainly why I hope to god that Ridley is in the Wii U version and Sakurai was just being a troll. Until possibly Novemeber 21st, we will just have to play the game all Smash fans are amazing at, the waiting game.

sakurai isent perfect but he does what he does for a reason and mewtwo isent everything there are other more recently revelvant people...Im gonna get crucified

 

[Aeon Lupin]

sakurai isent perfect but he does what he does for a reason and mewtwo isent everything there are other more recently revelvant people...Im gonna get crucified

Well, to start off

1. double post

2. Mewtwo has been incredibly relevant. more than some of the newcomers, like WFT, Villager, heck, even the awesome Megaman, who hasn't had a game in years.

 

[fearless.leader]

The game isn't fully released yet, so they're not even taking DLC into consideration yet.

which is how dlc *should* work

 

[Dyguren]

some fans dont know what they want and plus isent that how we got villager megaman etc...?

That's why i specifically said he can "take the best from their ideas". Of course he won't pay attention to someone asking for Goku or some stupid idea like that....lol

 

[The Quarter Master]

Guys, you're forgetting about how character-like that silhouette of Ridley was, WAY back during the Nintendo Direct. He didn't seem to be a boss, but rather a character. You can tell this by his movements. Sakurai did say "other boss characters will appear on different stages" or whatever, but perhaps Ridley is unlockable, and that's the stage you fight him on! That would match up perfectly with what he said.

 

[Dyguren]

Guys, you're forgetting about how character-like that silhouette of Ridley was, WAY back during the Nintendo Direct. He didn't seem to be a boss, but rather a character. You can tell this by his movements. Sakurai did say "other boss characters will appear on different stages" or whatever, but perhaps Ridley is unlockable, and that's the stage you fight him on! That would match up perfectly with what he said.

Yeah, I pretty much still consider that being an important point. After all, Bowser, Ganondorf, etc, are boss characters in their original games. If Sakurai was talking about just bosses in smash, he would have avoided saying "boss characters" in the first place and just said "bosses" instead.

 

[VenomSymbiote]

Quite frankly, I think it's just Sakurai trolling. I think he finds the Ridley trolling funny.

If he does it goes against what he said about not liking to give people false hope and causing them to think their character has a chance. It'd be straight up lying to have said that and then turn around and do all this with Ridley. Granted he's not above lying or anything, and Ridley may not be playable at all, but he's said before he doesn't find it funny to get peoples hopes up. Either way, I don't find it the least bit funny, just as I don't find cutting the IC funny, or his blatant favoritism funny. He really should never become a comedian.

It is nice to see people still have hope for the Space Pirate ruler Ridley. It'd make sense to keep a few characters to hype up the Wii U version. Though I'm curious about the boss characters thing. I personally think it is referring to him as just a character who is a boss in Metroid, like Bowser to Mario. In the Japanese translation though didn't it come out as "boss gimmick"? Perhaps in Japanese this could still be viewed as "boss character" to use in regards to Bowser being a boss in Mario? Or, to the Japanese, would "boss gimmick" be a play on words if Ridley was playable since that would be his gimmick? I still have some hope but I'm just curious if anyone with more knowledge of Japanese can put some light on how that's able to be taken overseas?

HypeFalcon, if Sakurai thinks fans want to be hyped and teased with a Ridley Stage Boss then he really needs to have a nice long talk with Bill Trinen and other people from NoA so he can stop being so out of touch. That or just get someone making Smash who actually knows what fans want so that if they do just want Ridley as a boss they can come right out and say it instead of giving fans who care false hope.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

I don't understand a few things that Sakurai did with Smash 4. Some examples are, why make the Wii U version be limited due to the 3DS' limitations? Why were popular Brawl characters (Lucas, Wolf) cut? Why didn't he listen to the fans and bring back the MOST REQUESTED character around the world, Mewtwo?

But my biggest gripe is why would you tease one of the most requested characters in Smash history unbelievably and NOT include him?! This is mainly why I hope to god that Ridley is in the Wii U version and Sakurai was just being a troll. Until possibly November 21st, we will just have to play the game all Smash fans are amazing at, the waiting game.

Yes why did he cut WOLF?! It makes no sense. Starfox is getting a new game. Star fox 64 3d also counts as a game ( ocarina of time 3d has a stage in the game). We wanted villains and Wolf is a villain/ antihero. We didn't really gain villains. Bowser jr.- even if he counts as one Wolf isn't there(yet) so no gain of villains.(yet) Dark Pit isn't a villain at all. Dedede and Meta Knight are more evil than Dark Pit. This game is capable of DLC. No characters should be permanently cut just for time constraints. The Veterans Wolf, Lucas, Mewtwo, Roy, Pichu, Ivysaur, Squirtle and even Young Link ( though I think Toon Link kind of replaced him) could be playable in this game via DLC since there is no major issue keeping them out. Even if all of them have to be created from scratch and it takes over a year they can be playable. Ice Climbers are a bit trickier due to technical limitations,but why not release them on the Wii U now ( since they work on that) now and then after the veteran DLC add them on the 3ds. Snake is due to licensing issues, but if he can't come back give his moveset to Sami from Advance Wars. From brawl to this game we went from 5 to 10 cuts. We asked for villains,but got only Bowser Jr ( who could just be called an annoying brat morose than a villain, but the Koopalings are villains so he counts as a villain. ) Why does he not show us Ridley? Does he think it will be funny to deconfirm him later? Every other character he shot down early, Ashley, Skull Kid, Midna, Waluigi ( that pic of the day was just cruel), Zoroark, Dillon, and the Yellow Devil. I personally think that Ridley , Impa, Mewtwo, Wolf, and Lucas are being held back for the Wii U. Ridley and Impa have the best shot since no trophy of them is on the 3ds. The only trophy of Impa is called Impa ( Ocarina of Time). Mewtwo has been too requested to be ignored, plus he has regained popularity and was in some recent movies ( Pokemon the origin and Mewtwo vs Genesect.) so why not bring him back. If Ridley and Mewtwo are playable then Wolf must be too. You need all the veteran villains playable in this game. Wolf Can't let you leave him out of the fight. Besides if Ridley and Mewtwo are playable and Wolf isn't he'll become the new Mewtwo. Plus he's a staple to his series and the reason Fox was able to defeat the Aparoids. Wolf's too bad*** to just be left out of this iteration of smash bros. WOLF MUST BE PLAYABLE! Lucas is more for the fans. Lucas has gained a fan base and gotten more and more people asking for a localization of Mother 3. People want Lucas in not out. It also makes no sense to reduce Star Fox and Earthbound in reps with all the other series gaining reps. Can't Let you have more reps than Star Fox Kid Icarus! Ridley and Impa have the best shot of being playable through Wii U transfer while Mewtwo, Wolf, and Lucas have a better shot through DLC.

 

[MysticKnives]

Yes why did he cut WOLF?! It makes no sense. Starfox is getting a new game. Star fox 64 3d also counts as a game ( ocarina of time 3d has a stage in the game). We wanted villains and Wolf is a villain/ antihero. We didn't really gain villains. Bowser jr.- even if he counts as one Wolf isn't there(yet) so no gain of villains.(yet) Dark Pit isn't a villain at all. Dedede and Meta Knight are more evil than Dark Pit. This game is capable of DLC. No characters should be permanently cut just for time constraints. The Veterans Wolf, Lucas, Mewtwo, Roy, Pichu, Ivysaur, Squirtle and even Young Link ( though I think Toon Link kind of replaced him) could be playable in this game via DLC since there is no major issue keeping them out. Even if all of them have to be created from scratch and it takes over a year they can be playable. Ice Climbers are a bit trickier due to technical limitations,but why not release them on the Wii U now ( since they work on that) now and then after the veteran DLC add them on the 3ds. Snake is due to licensing issues, but if he can't come back give his moveset to Sami from Advance Wars. From brawl to this game we went from 5 to 10 cuts. We asked for villains,but got only Bowser Jr ( who could just be called an annoying brat morose than a villain, but the Koopalings are villains so he counts as a villain. ) Why does he not show us Ridley? Does he think it will be funny to deconfirm him later? Every other character he shot down early, Ashley, Skull Kid, Midna, Waluigi ( that pic of the day was just cruel), Zoroark, Dillon, and the Yellow Devil. I personally think that Ridley , Impa, Mewtwo, Wolf, and Lucas are being held back for the Wii U. Ridley and Impa have the best shot since no trophy of them is on the 3ds. The only trophy of Impa is called Impa ( Ocarina of Time). Mewtwo has been too requested to be ignored, plus he has regained popularity and was in some recent movies ( Pokemon the origin and Mewtwo vs Genesect.) so why not bring him back. If Ridley and Mewtwo are playable then Wolf must be too. You need all the veteran villains playable in this game. Wolf Can't let you leave him out of the fight. Besides if Ridley and Mewtwo are playable and Wolf isn't he'll become the new Mewtwo. Plus he's a staple to his series and the reason Fox was able to defeat the Aparoids. Wolf's too bad*** to just be left out of this iteration of smash bros. WOLF MUST BE PLAYABLE! Lucas is more for the fans. Lucas has gained a fan base and gotten more and more people asking for a localization of Mother 3. People want Lucas in not out. It also makes no sense to reduce Star Fox and Earthbound in reps with all the other series gaining reps. Can't Let you have more reps than Star Fox Kid Icarus! Ridley and Impa have the best shot of being playable through Wii U transfer while Mewtwo, Wolf, and Lucas have a better shot through DLC.

Firstly: was this a rant?

Second: I don't mean to judge but you sound salty... Which is understandable. And while DLC could happen, there's no guarantee they're going to be the characters mentioned. While I do agree that these characters should come back, I wouldn't be surprised if the didn't. I highly doubt there's wii u exclusive characters... Unless that involves DLC. I just hope you don't get disappoint if those characters don't return

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Firstly: was this a rant?

Second: I don't mean to judge but you sound salty... Which is understandable. And while DLC could happen, there's no guarantee they're going to be the characters mentioned. While I do agree that these characters should come back, I wouldn't be surprised if the didn't. I highly doubt there's wii u exclusive characters... Unless that involves DLC. I just hope you don't get disappoint if those characters don't return

I guess you could call it an angry theory. A theory created while emotionally undergoing anger. However this discovery isn't an angry theory. I actually just realized something else that could help Wolf. Namco made Star Fox Assault. ( Face-palmed for not thinking about this earlier ) This could explain why Wolf has his look from Assault plus I did some research and out of all the characters in brawl Wolf's look strayed the most away from his non smash bros official artwork. All of Ike's looks in smash bros mirror his official artwork from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn respectively. The only odd thing about Wolf is the lack of a blaster holster though he could just pull a blaster out of thin air. Wolf would make sense as being held back for the Wii U version especially if Ridley's playable. Two space villains and why not add in Mewtwo, a sci fi trio. Or that leak with Lucas, Mewtwo, and Wolf is legit. In which they are unlocked in an update or by linking the two. Namco made Assault so why drop the one Star Fox character who got his iconic look from the game. I think Wolf will be playable either by DLC or transfer. Hopefully I'm right.

I'm working on a very in depth analysis on the various evidence for/against the leak, so everybody try your best not to get this thread locked too before I get to post it, which should hopefully be some time tomorrow. I would hate to see all my work be wasted. It seems like the problem people from the other thread aren't here so hopefully everything will stay nice and civil.

I've been gathering evidence left and right and using it to theorize theories. I guess you could say [ I'm really theorizing it.] I'm looking forward to your analysis.

 

[leprechaunlink727]

Okay, so here's the first chunk of my leak analysis, which is taking a lot longer than I expected. Full disclosure: I made a very similar post collecting all the evidence for why Snake would be coming back, so I'm well aware that this could all be wishful thinking. That said, picking this leak apart has actually made me believe it more, and I think I've uncovered some important pieces of supporting evidence that people aren't really discussing right now. This is a LOOOONG post, and it's not even done, but hopefully it'll help elevate the discussion of this leak a little bit. What I've finished is so far my analysis of the stage list and the few elements of the leak that have been "confirmed" since it came out. So without further ado...

The Tower of Smash Leak and why I WANT TO BELIEVE

So recently a leak has been making the rounds after it was posted on 4chan, with some people finding that the extraordinary amount of detail and plausibility makes some of its more grandiose claims believable, while others are just trying to enjoy the 3DS version for what it is without getting their hopes up. I can sympathize with both sides, but I can’t help but feel like the leak is very compelling, primarily due to its similarities to the Ninka/Vaanrose leak, its extensive detail, and the fact that it just makes a lot of sense. Since there hasn’t been a hugely in depth analysis post for this leak yet, I thought I’d put one together while procrastinating my homework.


OVERVIEW:

The leak goes very in depth with everything it reveals, similarly to the Ninka/Vaanrose leak. Unlike that leak however, there’s no external evidence backing it up, simply a block of text. But it’s not the presence of detail that’s compelling so much as the details themselves. The leak presents a very plausible stage list, elaborates on a new single player mode that makes a lot of sense, and expands on the list of Wii U locked characters suggested a couple of weeks ago on Neogaf. The leak gives more detail on certain aspects than others, but taken altogether it presents an almost complete picture of the Wii U version of Sm4sh. The leak is basically split up into three parts: characters, game modes, and stages. There's an additional section covering what's already been confirmed or is believed to have been confirmed since the leak was first posted.


CHARACTERS

Spoiler

Coming Soon

GAME MODES

Spoiler

Coming Soon

STAGES

Spoiler

I think this stage list is perfect, and easily the most plausible part of the leak. An increase from 41 stages in Brawl to 55 in Sm4sh Wii U sounds about right, and every series gets at least one stage, with every veteran series getting at least one returning stage if it has one available. Also notable is that the majority of veteran series have the same number of stages as Brawl, with most of the exceptions being because of returning stages. All of the returning stages appeared in Brawl, which lines up with what Sakurai has said about it being difficult to port material over from the older games. There aren’t any glaring omissions in terms of representing recent console games, and several series have stages that do a great job representing the series as a whole. There are definitely some weird choices, but I think this adds credibility rather than taking it away, since it doesn’t read like an obvious fan wishlist. If it weren’t for the more grandiose things claimed by other parts of the leak, I don’t think anybody would question this stage list. I think it’s incredibly reasonable all around, and I go in depth here as to why with a series by series breakdown:

Smash Original: 2 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Battlefield
Final Destination

No surprises here.

Mario: 6 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Mario Galaxy
Bowser’s Castle
Mushroom Kingdom U
Rainbow Cruise*
Delfino Plaza*
Luigi’s Mansion*

Bowser’s Castle is a stage people have wanted since Melee, which makes it a little suspect simply because it aligns so perfectly with fan desires. However, it definitely makes sense as a stage, and can represent any number of console Mario games, since some version of it appears in pretty much every single one, even Mario Kart. Speaking of which, I have a hunch that this is going to be the Mario Kart 8 version. We already have a Mario Kart stage on 3DS, but Mario Kart is a huge series and is just as important to consoles, and Mario Circuit apparently isn’t returning. Thankfully, the Mario Kart 8 Bowser’s Castle is awesome:

The three returning stages are all solid picks. Mario is definitely deserving of 3, and if Mario Circuit is getting replaced by Rainbow Road and maybe Bowser’s Castle, then “Mario Bros” is the only Brawl Mario stage not carrying over to Sm4sh in some form. “Mario Bros”, while nostalgic and sort of fun, is perhaps the most broken stage in the history of the series, so I don’t think it will be mourned.

Donkey Kong: 3 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Jungle Hijinx
Bramble Blast
Rumble Falls*

Jungle Hijinx is the name of the first level of both the original Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong Country Returns. I think it’s pretty safe to assume that this will be the DKCR version, because the game was a hit both commercially and critically, is far more recent, and its version of the level has a lot more going on visually. This is the “safe guess” stage.

Bramble Blast is a little more out there, being a memorable level from DKC2, and would make for an interesting stage since it’s already got a built in gimmick by being covered in brambles. Additionally, its background music already appears as an alternate track for Smash Run on the 3DS version, but is not selectable ifor any stage, suggesting perhaps that there may be something to this after all.

We’re definitely getting at least one new DK stage, and both of these are reasonable choices. On the other hand nobody really likes Rumble Falls, but 75m, while a noble effort by Sakurai, is just atrociously unplayable, and Jungle Japes is on 3DS, making Rumble Falls the only Brawl DK stage left for returning.

Yoshi: 2 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Yoshi’s Story
Yoshi’s Island (Melee)*

A lot of people have said this one is a bit suspicious, since Yoshi’s Story came out way back in 1997 and was already represented by a stage in both 64 and Melee. It’s definitely a little weird, but nobody seems to realize that Yoshi’s Story is the most recent console Yoshi game. The series has been exclusively on handhelds ever since 1997, and while this trend will be broken with Yoshi’s Wooly World, that game doesn’t even have a release date yet. In addition, every Yoshi game since Yoshi’s Story has been a remake of the original Yoshi’s Island, which is already adequately represented by the returning Brawl stage on 3DS. This is just one example of a place where the stage list seems off or inconsistent, but on second glance makes perfect sense.

The returning stage is just the same one from Brawl, so no surprise there.

Wario: 2 (+1 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Game & Wario (Gamer)
WarioWare*

People are splitting hairs over the fact that the leaker didn’t get the stage’s name right, but I think in this case it doesn’t mean much. Had he put “Gamer”, almost nobody would have known what he was talking about, so he could have said “Game & Wario” for clarity. There’s also still a possibility that “Gamer” is just one phase of the stage and there’s more to it than we’ve seen. Wario Land is getting shafted once again in spite of the very solid Wario Land: Shake It!, but that’s really not too surprising. Warioware is on 3DS already, but there’s no reason returning stages can’t be shared too, especially since it’s the only option for a returning Wario stage.

Zelda: 5 (+2 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Skyloft
Forest Haven
Temple*
Bridge of Eldin*
Pirate Ship*

Forest Haven makes sense to me because it accomplishes two things. One, it reps the most recent console Zelda game, which is Wind Waker HD, and assets from that game could theoretically be carried over to create the stage. Two, it very prominently features an iconic Zelda character who appears in several games: the Deku tree, even if this isn’t his most popular incarnation. The leaves surrounding the Tree are basically already like Smash platforms, and the deku pods could add a fun mechanic if they're featured as well. It's one of those places that translates very well into a Smash stage without changing much. I can definitely see this stage happening and I personally think this is one of the most exciting stages on the list.

If the three returning stages are accurate, then every one of Zelda’s Brawl stages is returning, which seems like a reasonable decision since they’re all great stages, Temple in particular being a fan favorite.

Pokemon: 3 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Nimbassa City
Kalos Pokemon League
Pokemon Stadium 2*

While it seems like Pokemon should have more stages, it has the same number as Brawl, so no real red flags here. Nimbassa City is from Black & White, and is your typical Pokemon “metropolis” town save for one thing: the giant ferris wheel that serves as its most prominent landmark. A ferris wheel is a great idea for a Smash stage, so I’m totally on board with this. What’s also worth mentioning is how the two Wii U stages would be parallels of the two 3DS stages. On 3DS, we have the major metropolitan city from X&Y, and the Pokemon League from Black & White. With these stages, Wii U would have the major Metropolitan City from Black & White, and the Pokemon League from X&Y. It’s one of those perfect little details that adds credibility and makes it seem like if this is a fake, it’s an incredibly well thought out one.

You gotta have dat Pokemon Stadium in there, and we already know Spear Pillar is out since Palkia is a Pokeball Pokemon, so the returning stage makes perfect sense.

Metroid: 3 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Pyrosphere
Tourian
Norfair*

While I personally would have loved to see a Metroid Prime 3 stage, given how awesome that game’s levels were, Tourian makes sense too. Tourian is the final area of Metroid, Super Metroid, and Metroid Zero Mission, where Mother Brain is fought, and thus is a good choice for representing the Metroid series as a whole in the same nostalgic way that Mute City and Magicant represent their respective franchises.

We don't really know for sure what Pyrosphere's deal is, but it doesn't appear to have a lava hazard, so Norfair's back to be our obligatory "Metroid Lava Stage". Frigate Orpheon was a pretty cool stage, but oh well, gotta keep things consistent.

Kid Icarus: 3 (+2 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Palutena’s Temple
Underworld
Skyworld*

Does Kid Icarus really deserve three stages? No. Is having three stages consistent with its overrepresentation in Sm4sh so far? Definitely. Underworld is a good pick since it is featured in all three Kid Icarus games. If I had to guess, it’ll be based on the Uprising version, simply because there really isn't much to the NES version visually.

Skyworld is the only possibility for a returning stage, and every series that can seems to be getting one.

Fire Emblem: 2 (+1 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Coliseum
Castle Siege*

Already confirmed. As much as Fire Emblem is getting increased representation this time around, I don’t think it’s too unreasonable that it would get only one new stage per console.

Kirby: 4 (+2 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Cookie Country
Mt. Dedede
Patch Land
Halberd *

We haven’t seen any new Kirby stages yet, but we’re definitely going to get at least one, and regardless of “Sakurai Bias”, the Kirby series deserves four stages, especially since there’s been about one new Kirby game a year since Brawl. The first thing that pops out is that Green Greens as gone, leaving us without Whispy Woods for the first time in the series! However, Cookie Country is the first world of Kirby’s Return to Dreamland, and Whispy Woods is the boss, so it could definitely be a revamped Whispy Woods stage to replace Green Greens, perhaps with Whispy himself reworked to be a proper stage boss. Cookie Country is a pretty safe guess regardless.

Patch Land is a little weirder, but given how unique the Epic Yarn aesthetic is, it seems like a solid choice, and represents a recent console title just like Cookie Country does. Patch Land is the name of the world that the whole game takes place in, rather than a specific level, so maybe this could be a transforming stage like the Paper Mario Stage on 3DS. Or it could just be the leaker went with a more generic name for clarity.

Mt. Dedede is the wildcard here. It’s a recurring location in the series, serving as the final level in Kirby’s Dreamland and the Spring Breeze subgame in Kirby Super Star. It’s basically just a generic mountain that Dedede’s castle appears on, which is interesting, because a location in the Subspace Emissary fits that criteria and this stage may draw from that version. In Kirby Super Star, Dedede is fought in a boxing ring, but we already have one of those, so it's highly doubtful this stage will feature the boxing ring. This stage is definitely a possibility, but it’s hard to say for sure what it would look like. Sakurai created the Kirby series, so the way I see it, he can come up with anything he wants.

Halberd is already confirmed to return.

Starfox: 2 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Great Fox (Orbital Gate)
Lylat Cruise*

Like Game & Wario, the name discrepancy is becoming a real sticking point for people, but considering that the stage prominently features the Great Fox, I really don’t think it’s a disconfirmation. If the leaker only had access to a Japanese build, there’s no way he would be able to guess the name “Orbital Platform” unless he was extremely familiar with Star Fox: Assault, and let’s be honest guys, most people haven’t played a Star Fox game since 64. It’s a shame that Corneria is 3DS exclusive, but Lylat Cruise is the only other option for a returning stage, and at least it’s neutral!

F-Zero: 2 (Same as Brawl)

Spoiler

Mute City
Port Town Aero Dive*

I can definitely see Mute City being a shared stage, seeing as it’s way too awesome, represents the whole series, and the original F-Zero is a console game. I also don’t see them making a stage per console for F-Zero, since it’s on a looooong hiatus and several much more prominent series didn’t get a new stage for 3DS. It’s a little sad to see that Big Blue won’t be coming back, but Port Town: Aero Dive is going to look absolutely incredible in HD, so I can’t complain too much.

Mother: 2

Spoiler

Magicant
Onett*

Everything I said about Mute City applies to Magicant, and Onett is an iconic Smash staple at this point. Considering Lucas is gone, it’s unsurprising that they would cut New Pork City, and it seems like Palutena’s Temple will scratch the same itch that that stage did anyways.

Pikmin: 2 (+1 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Garden of Hope
Distant Planet*

Distant Planet, like Warioware, is already on 3DS, but was the only stage its series had prior to Sm4sh, so Distant Planet is the only returning stage option for Pikmin.

Animal Crossing: 2 (+ 1 from Brawl)

Spoiler

Town & City
Smashville*

Another weird case. Yes, these stages are very similar aesthetically, but they do have different platform layouts, and we saw a similar situation in Brawl with Pokemon Stadium and Pokemon Stadium 2. In addition, if every series that can have a returning stage does, then Smashville is the only possibility for Animal Crossing.

Punch-Out: 1

Spoiler

Boxing Ring

Already confirmed.

Wii Fit: 1

Spoiler

Wii Fit Studio

Already confirmed.

Xenoblade: 1

Spoiler

Gaur Plains

Already confirmed, although we still don’t know what the deal is with Metal Face...

Miis: 2

Spoiler

Pilot Wings
Nintendo Land

The “Mii Series” has two stages on 3DS, so it wouldn’t be too out there for it to get two on Wii U as well. We already have our Wii Sports Resort representation with Pilotwings, so Nintendo Land is a very safe choice, especially considering its crossover nature fits in neatly with Smash. I’m guessing the stage would take place within the theme park itself, but I suppose it could also be a transforming stage that goes through a few games.

Game & Watch: 2

Spoiler

Green House
Flat Zone 2*

If every returning series gets at least one new stage, then Game & Watch gets one too. Greenhouse would be the first G&W stage to focus on just one specific title, but the layout of the Greenhouse is very well suited to a Smash stage, so why not?

Flat Zone 1 wasn’t in Brawl, so even though it’s on 3DS, Flat Zone 2 is the only possibility for a returning stage.

R.O.B.: 1

Spoiler

Gyromite

No reason R.O.B. can’t get his own stage, and veteran series that didn’t have a stage the first time they appeared have always gotten one the second time they’ve appeared. Also, according to the leaker, every series gets a stage, and so R.O.B. gets Gyromite.

Duck Hunt: 1

Spoiler

Shooting Gallery

If every series gets a stage, so does Duck Hunt. I’m guessing this would be a composite stage that combines elements from a few different Nes Zapper games, just like Duck Hunt’s moveset. Maybe an aiming reticle could occasionally fire at players or something. The game Hogan's Alley looks an awful lot like a shooting gallery, so it could be that the leaker saw a Hogan's Alley stage and dubbed it "Shooting Gallery". I doubt that would be the actual name, but maybe.

Sonic:

Spoiler

Windy Hill

Confirmed. Green Hill Zone is already on 3DS and 3rd Party Series don’t need to have more than one stage per console.

Megaman:

Spoiler

Wily’s Castle

Confirmed.

Pac-Man:

Spoiler

Pac-land

Confirmed.

Other:

Spoiler

NES Remix
Endless Ocean


Here are the two big wildcard stages. Ever since Melee, Smash has featured stages that reference classic NES titles, and the Balloon Fight stage on 3DS is just the latest example. NES Remix would be a way for one stage to represent the entire NES era, either as a transforming stage or with one single layout incorporating elements from multiple games. I think it makes a lot of sense.

Endless Ocean is a little more out there, but considering Brawl had “Hanenbow”, there’s a precedent for obscure Nintendo games that are otherwise unrepresented to get a stage. Endless Ocean is basically a deep sea diving simulator for Wii where you essentially just explore the ocean and look at all kinds of different fish. It got a sequel too. The fact that this stage is so out there makes it seem like something a fake leaker wouldn’t include, and there’s no denying the appeal of an underwater Smash stage where you fight while all kinds of majestic sea creatures swim past in glorious HD. That sounds ****ing amazing, and is definitely the kind of “crazy idea” that Sakurai would have.

CONFIRMED/CONFIRMED? DETAILS

Spoiler

Release Date: Many seem to believe that this leak was one of the first mentions of the November 21st international release for the Wii U version. While this is technically true, on the surface it does not appear to be THE first. The twitter leak that initially suggested a November 21st release date actually came out earlier on the same day (1:38 pm) as the first 4chan post (15:12/3:12 pm): https://twitter.com/emi1yrogers/status/510890251985100800

It’s certainly plausible that if the leak is fake, the leaker could have copied the date from this tweet, but given that there was only about an hour and a half between the two, it could really go either way.

BUT...

The timestamp for the 4chan post is in military time. After checking 4chan to confirm that it defaults to the 12 hour clock in America, this led me to believe that the screencap of the 4chan post originated from somewhere in Europe, presumably the UK, given that’s more or less the only European country with a big presence on 4chan. Using a handy dandy time zone converter, I found out that 15:12 in London is about 10:12 am EST (my time zone).

However, twitter timestamps seem to be based on the time zone where the tweet originated from (I changed my clock just to make sure), and Fred Meyer, the store from which the preorder card in the tweet originates, is a chain based almost entirely in the American Norhwest, meaning the 1:38 pm in the tweet is most likely PDT. 15:12 London time is 7:12 am PDT, which means, if my calculations are accurate, then the 4chan post was actually posted 6 hours and 26 minutes BEFORE the tweet, making it the first mention of November 21st after all! DUH DUH DUHHHHH!

If Twitter bases time stamps on IP address instead of internal clock, which it might, then the leak is still nonetheless 3 hours and 26 minutes older than the tweet.

This is definitely strong evidence in the leak’s favor, but bear in mind:

1. There has been no official confirmation from Nintendo yet of a November 21st international release.

And

2. November 21st is a pretty safe guess all around, considering it’s a week before Black Friday and has traditionally been a big day for Nintendo Holiday releases.

Nature of Wii U/3DS connectivity: The leak says that custom characters and unlocked moves/equipment can be shared between consoles, and the description for the “Wii U” menu option on the 3DS confirms this. However, we already knew this. The leaker also clarifies that trophies cannot be shared between games, which makes sense given that the two versions have different sets of trophies. The only truly new information the leaker gives on connectivity is that it will unlock five new characters on 3DS, which is as of now completely unconfirmed by any official source.


Castle Siege: Announced a day (9/19) before the stage list was posted on 4chan (9/20): https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAABnUYoL6LijOQ


Game & Wario Stage: So far, the only confirmed game detail actually predicted by the Tower of Smash leak. Although as many have suggested, it’s a pretty safe guess given that Game & Wario is the most recent console Wario title, especially considering the name doesn’t match. Many have also speculated that “Gamer” may only be one of several scenarios in the stage based on Game & Wario games, similar to the Warioware stage. I personally find this unlikely, but it’s another plausible explanation for the name discrepancy.


Great Fox Stage: We got a tease of the stage months ago, so the leak didn’t really predict this at all.

 

[Kriven]

Keep in mind that Sakurai did not like the idea of Pac-Man as a playable fighter, so whatever he said about not liking Ridley as a playable fighter is a moot point.

 

[MajorMajora]

I guess I don't like it because I want a new multiplayer mode a la smash run and I don't see much value in a new game mode that's just event matches with a new coat of paint.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

Ridley is going to be a stage boss but there's something to it that we don't know yet. It's not going to be like the Yellow Devil, whatever happens. He may even be a playable stage boss, as much as that would not appease anyone.

 

[ShinyRegice]

With the update on the official SSB4 website Ness had been added with pics of the returning Onett stage. While this one was on this leak, it was a somewhat safe guess, BUT another past stage mentioned in this leak was shown is a more discreet manner:

"But it's just Town and City!" No, actually it looks more like Smashville than Town and City, two pics of those respective stages for the sake of comparison:

Look at the background building in the left, the small wall and the rod above Kirby, and last but not least the ground coloring, it definitely looks more like Smashville than Town and City. Sure, some background houses are unrecognizable in Wario's pic, but the returning stages are probably going to be redone a little, Villager has to go from behind the rope after all. It wasn't really an obvious guess because with Town and City a lot of people including myself didn't see the point of bringing back Smashville, but yeah the analogy with both Pokémon Stadiums in Brawl makes sense.

While I'm not going to fully believe the leak for the benefit of the doubt, the way how the stage list looks very plausible gives it some credits for me. The Tower of Smash leak sounds cool, but I'm worried about how there are one hundred battles to do, I hope we can save our progression. The additional character list lets me indifferent, I'm fine with the current roster and I don't care much about who joins the battle by 3DS-Wii U connection/DLCs/whatever, except Rayman and maybe Mewtwo, and I'm going to believe that Ridley is a stage boss (unfortunately) until proven otherwise.

 

[Naoshi]

The Tower of Smash leak sounds cool, but I'm worried about how there are one hundred battles to do, I hope we can save our progression.

The leak mentioned there's a checkpoint every 10 floors. So no worries there if that mode turns out true.

 

[NATGamer]

With the update on the official SSB4 website Ness had been added with pics of the returning Onett stage. While this one was on this leak, it was a somewhat safe guess, BUT another past stage mentioned in this leak was shown is a more discreet manner:

"But it's just Town and City!" No, actually it looks more like Smashville than Town and City, two pics of those respective stages for the sake of comparison:



Look at the background building in the left, the small wall and the rod above Kirby, and last but not least the ground coloring, it definitely looks more like Smashville than Town and City. Sure, some background houses are unrecognizable in Wario's pic, but the returning stages are probably going to be redone a little, Villager has to go from behind the rope after all. It wasn't really an obvious guess because with Town and City a lot of people including myself didn't see the point of bringing back Smashville, but yeah the analogy with both Pokémon Stadiums in Brawl makes sense.

While I'm not going to fully believe the leak for the benefit of the doubt, the way how the stage list looks very plausible gives it some credits for me. The Tower of Smash leak sounds cool, but I'm worried about how there are one hundred battles to do, I hope we can save our progression. The additional character list lets me indifferent, I'm fine with the current roster and I don't care much about who joins the battle by 3DS-Wii U connection/DLCs/whatever, except Rayman and maybe Mewtwo, and I'm going to believe that Ridley is a stage boss (unfortunately) until proven otherwise.

Wow, good eye! Maybe this leak is true and if it is, then Nintendo really needs to be careful who they reveal their info to....or tell Mario to fix all the leaks

 

[Rymi]

Well, to start off

1. double post

2. Mewtwo has been incredibly relevant. more than some of the newcomers, like WFT, Villager, heck, even the awesome Megaman, who hasn't had a game in years.

1.double post? where
2. im just stating my opinion i don't want to start anything but remember i also said recent and megaman is like a grandfather of gaming
Its entirly possble for it to happen but dont let your own wants shrowd your judgment.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Yep 2 more points for the tower of smash rumor

I still need alot more stages to hop on

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I just need wolf...

Looking at your signature, I'll just say this: Why the hell would anyone want the worst Pokemon newcomer in history (Pichu) back in Smash?