Theory: How to "easily" balance Melee

[Wretched]

No he doesn't. That's a meteor. Please don't say I'm wrong. I've had this discussion before and it ended up with me asking kage.

You shouldn't be so Adamant when you don't even know what someone is talking about. Why would they go to a factual site about ganon to contradict themselves?
"Ganondorf's down B will spike an opponent if connected in air" was his reference. He wouldn't just go to the site to not check if Dair was a spike.

 

[CloneHat]

Wizard's foot is a spike.

 

[KirbyKaze]

We have no way of knowing what kind of impact this sort of change would have. Or if it would even create a balance. Changing an in-game mechanic entirely is a big shift and even small things can have an extremely profound impact. And, I assure you, hit stun is not a small thing.

I'm therefore very hesitant to consider this a balancing technique.

edit: LOL at anyone seriously relying on Kage for character information.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

If pichu had like 3 more frames of hit stun on all his sattacks go could pillar to mid percents, s*** all over sheilds like no ones business, nair combos would be sexy and dair would be useable. Seriously he is soooooo close to having a pillar that 100% works I could cry. 3 more frames on just air moves and he'd easily rise 5 places. he would have 0-deaths on people. And a little known fact is pichu has sheik's d-throw it's just he does a little flip at the end.

But pichu is legit in the idea that nothing can solidly stop him think CCing to roy or getting grabbed as link or uber camped as kirby. It's simply hard to learn how to beat walls, rushdowns, and reading them very well. Pichu like pikachu has good pressure once he can get in solidly and it's hard to beat the approach of a patince pichu his approah is safer than fox's Ask catuar If you disargee.

The thing about pichu is you can'teffectly wall him as far as I know due to size, projectiles, and raw speed. and rushing him doesn't work either because of his DDing and how eaily hhe can squeeze out you simply have to adapt as you go.

 

[t3h Icy]

Have Roy's sword made out of metal, not paper.

 

[X1-12]

We have no way of knowing what kind of impact this sort of change would have. Or if it would even create a balance. Changing an in-game mechanic entirely is a big shift and even small things can have an extremely profound impact. And, I assure you, hit stun is not a small thing.

I'm therefore very hesitant to consider this a balancing technique.

edit: LOL at anyone seriously relying on Kage for character information.

lul, why don't we change the damage ratio to 1.1

 

[G.L.]

i don't understand why people always say melee is "unbalanced" the whole top 8 of the cast ***** each other! i think its balanced extremely well. i can understand why people want low tiers to be more viable, but it would be almost impossible to make a single change and suddenly balance everything. mewtwo doesnt suck because his Dair isint a spike, mewtwo sucks becasue he gets combod easily and cant combo well (among other things) but even though melee is soooo unbalanced, players like Taj, axe and vectorman still make it work with low tiers. my point being, melee is extremely balanced

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

i don't understand why people always say melee is "unbalanced" the whole top 8 of the cast ***** each other! i think its balanced extremely well. i can understand why people want low tiers to be more viable, but it would be almost impossible to make a single change and suddenly balance everything. mewtwo doesnt suck because his Dair isint a spike, mewtwo sucks becasue he gets combod easily and cant combo well (among other things) but even though melee is soooo unbalanced, players like Taj, axe and vectorman still make it work with low tiers. my point being, melee is extremely balanced

Um, no. The characters in the low tiers like Mewtwo, yoshi, ect are not really all that great and are greatly unbalanced with the cast by a huge noticeable margin. As for those extremely talented people who get those characters to work, the characters are not magically balanced with the rest of the cast just because a few people can play them at that level. For the awesome low tier mains like Axe, Taj, and Vman it is not that the character they play is not bad, it is, but the fact THEY are just that epic awesome skill level. So awesome low tier mains do not make Melee magically balanced, as they as awesome as they are do not change the realities of the game they play. As for the top 8, yes they are balanced out with each other, but what about the other 18 characters that take an incredibly awesome player to use (Except maybe the mid tiers which do not require as much awesome but that is getting off topic.) If we measure just the really balanced tournament viable characters then melee probably has the shortest character roster in the smash series. (Brawls 12ish + Metaknight, I could be wrong about brawl though really do not play it a lot, or SSB64 all 12 tournament viable characters.)

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

in ssb isai is broken Also it's tech skill curves aren't near as extreme for most bottom tiers in melee the learning curve kills them before they can stand up. I really think pichu has a high learning curve as in understanding how to play as him in all ways. but I learned how to play m2 when lori told me why his pichu wa good because m2 and pichu are a lot a like. I understood what he meant as in how they play with how they use projectiles for them most part and their up-bs. how they did what they do. kindof waiting around keeping a bit of pressure on at all times till you could get a hold of them.get what you can not just one thing.

ssbm's control/movement changes so many things it seems unreal to win as a slowish charcter. think about an impossible to pressure sheild with huge sheild, who can tank anything, kill in like 6 hits,good edge gaurd/ edge options, good overall range, ew solid grab combos, and do an air grab to beat sheilds.

bowser is good it's true the problem is how extreme the movement and control is think if you added all those things together in ssb? bowser would be broken you can't pressure his sheild he can tank anything,and quickish kills. their combos won't ever start without mindgames. also if you gave him melee movement he would straight up be banned he totally outranges all but 2 people and once they get in LOL up-B.fox's lasers wouldn't be a 100% answer to bowser either.

it's simplely the movement that largely effects it that and control. if they fall down when i'm pichu I folow them with a jolt and keep pressureing till I get them off the edge or get an up-smash. namely FFers.

melee is extreme in control and movement.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think Melee is more balanced than we give it credit for.

Whether you agree with that comment or not, it is frightening how bad most of the low tier players actually are. And it irritates me when people imply that your regular no-name low tier player that doesn't break R1 pools is hindered mainly by his or her character. Because that's simply not true. More than anything they're hindered by the fact that they suck.

We have a limited amount of talented people playing this game and most of them gravitate towards top tier or high tier characters. I can think of a few reasons why, but this isn't the topic for it. The fact that we have representatives that can compete with "bad" characters at national levels showcases that these characters can compete. You just have to be *gasp* good. Like you'd have to be to compete with any other character.

I am not arguing it's easier to fight with Mewtwo than it is with Sheik because that would be insane. But I do think people exaggerate this game's overall imbalance. Other than Kirby (and maybe Pichu) for a very specific reason, I do not think this game possesses "unwinnable" matchups.

 

[Kanelol]

I'm with you on the hitstun thing

but I looooooooove meteor smashes

Also

Whether you agree with that comment or not, it is frightening how bad most of the low tier players actually are. And it irritates me when people imply that your regular no-name low tier player that doesn't break R1 pools is hindered mainly by his or her character. Because that's simply not true. More than anything they're hindered by the fact that they suck.

Seriously I love you

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I argee with KK, I say I suck because i'm not winning all the matchs I could. I'm not as big of a joke as people who get movement camped to death easily like bowser/kirby/peach on KJ64 or something. Really only like roy/kirby/ness who you can beat sandbagging as top tiers that you never play as. Maybe pichu also but I don't feel as much pity for him as I do for roy.

If you get hit by a move you get punished and should be(unless out of game event happens like someone giving out free tacos).

also I'd make the ranking for teirs the following

good(sheik/fox/falco/puff only tier)

decent starts at marth ends at gannon

sucks everyone esle but for the ones that have like no chance of winning. yes mario and pikachu fall into this tier. I think pichu does too : P

WTF bad tier won't ever ever win as in a serious tournment charcters. charcters so limited it's ******** like roy however I think roy is in fact better than like G&W or pichu but they have a better chance of winning a tournment in all truth. epect roy/kirby/ness

 

[Kei_Takaro]

It's probably time to bring up that Player Skill + Character Ability Chart again lol