Social The WFTGD: How About Some Deep Breathing?

[Fancykong]

@ Wii Twerk Trainer is on stream now at Paragon!
Go to VSGC's twitch stream to see it!

.....he's going against a Pikachu main...

 

[Macchiato]

@ Wii Twerk Trainer is on stream now at Paragon!
Go to VSGC's twitch stream to see it!

.....he's going against a Pikachu main...

he did his best

ew pikachu

 

[Fancykong]

R.I.P. 20% gimp.

 

[Macchiato]

R.I.P. 20% gimp.

I feel like Zelda is a very good secondary for WFT. Zelda has evenish/good MUs against

If I'm not mistaken, those four are WiiFits worse MUs

 

[Erimir]

Random little FG thing, but does anyone else do this?

If you're on FG, and get killed while your opponent is in kill range. When you respawn, immediately do Deep Breathing, and if they approach to try to punish, immediately follow it with a d-smash.

It seems that a lot of players don't realize that DB doesn't take THAT long (they particularly might not know that it resets after you respawn), and so you're still invulnerable after finishing it, making their attempts to punish it futile. They approach, try to dash attack or grab or what have you which doesn't work, and then eat a powered up d-smash and die.

F-smash would probably work in a lot of situations too, but if you smash in the wrong direction you might miss.

Obviously this doesn't work on smarter/less aggressive opponents, but it's funny to do on the people who are susceptible to it.

 

[Mark The Page]

I love canceling Deep Breathing when an opponent rushes at me so I can roll behind them and punish. Best done when you've got a medium-length timer on it so you won't complete the power-up instantly, but you will soon if the opponent doesn't interrupt you.

Another one of my favorite combos has always been forward throw off stage -> jump into SS -> Header. Chase them down so you're a little above or below the ledge. If SS hit, you've got an easy Header snipe. If they dodged and they're jumping back up, you've got the spike. Either way I nearly always get a hit or even a kill doing this.

My third combo of the week is canceling Header at mid-range for the down smash when you can then immediately shoot a full SS, and then immediately use Header again. It's always fun to mix up projectiles and overwhelm the opponent.

 

[⑨ball]

I feel like Zelda is a very good secondary for WFT. Zelda has evenish/good MUs against

If I'm not mistaken, those four are WiiFits worse MUs

You think Jiggs is one of her worsts? Explain please. I disagree with the others but can understand where the idea might come from.

 

[Macchiato]

You think Jiggs is one of her worsts? Explain please. I disagree with the others but can understand where the idea might come from.

her priority and crouch are a problem.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I really do not see Pikachu being a remotely decent matchup for Zelda, as long as the Pika is smart mixing their approaches.

 

[⑨ball]

her priority and crouch are a problem.

Jiggs doesn't outprioritize WFT though? A crouching Jiggs is a grounded Jiggs and is not a problem. Similarly loses to rtacc dtilt. I'm also pretty sure that if we can grab G&W after the patch we can grab a crouching Jiggs.

 

[Fancykong]

Yeah, I stomp Jiggs players frequently. Unlike Kirby, who runs on the ground a bit, Jiggs stays in the air a lot, so it's actually a bad thing if she has to float all the way down to crouch a projectile. Since you can easily use a SH header and keep running to grab her, even crouching isn't very viable.

She's more of a threat when she's flinging those meaty hitboxes around to b:lock your projectiles/approaches, but WFT has angles to hit her anyway. Not to mention that Jiggs is actually somewhat vulnerable offstage if she messes up her edgeguard.

Edit: here is my video proof:

 

[Macchiato]

I guess it's just me then. I have trouble with MUs people find easy and I find MUs that are rly bad super easy like olimar and kirby.

I guess I'm special

 

[Macchiato]

I really do not see Pikachu being a remotely decent matchup for Zelda, as long as the Pika is smart mixing their approaches.

its a 55-45

its not bad at all for zelda

 

[Fancykong]

I guess it's just me then. I have trouble with MUs people find easy and I find MUs that are rly bad super easy like olimar and kirby.

I guess I'm special

Speaking of fighting Kirby, I made a video of when I spiked this player 4 times in one match. https://youtu.be/a4qersSr8pQ

 

[ぱみゅ]

its a 55-45

its not bad at all for zelda

*Double Post Warning*

But in all seriousness, Pikachu dances around Zelda, outpokes her with Dtilt, juggles her for days, and Jolt makes his approaches seriously threatening; the only thing kind of stopping Pikachu is Phantom which is stupid slow and avoidable.
It all comes down to Pikachu being able to kill or not, and as long as he doesn't rush it, he's waaay more likely to avoid Zelda's moves than the other way around.

 

[Macchiato]

*Double Post Warning*

But in all seriousness, Pikachu dances around Zelda, outpokes her with Dtilt, juggles her for days, and Jolt makes his approaches seriously threatening; the only thing kind of stopping Pikachu is Phantom which is stupid slow and avoidable.
It all comes down to Pikachu being able to kill or not, and as long as he doesn't rush it, he's waaay more likely to avoid Zelda's moves than the other way around.

Pikachu gets most his kill with gimps which is hard with Zelda. Zelda outranges and kills him incredibly early like at 45%. Zelda matches him in damage. Phantom slows pikachu's Up B down which is p huge due to so much utility from the move. Dtilt beats most of Pikachu's moves too.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Pikachu does not need range to face Zelda. True, sparkles have more range, but that has never been a problem for Pika (there's a reason he's a top tier character despite the lack of range), he can just hurl a Thunder Jolt and bait whatever clumsy defensive reaction she has to punish accordingly, and for similar reasons he does not even bother with her Dtilt. Also Phantom does not really "stops QA", because Pikachu should not be ramming with it in the first place.

Pikachu only struggles getting the kill, but I'll repeat, if he does not rush it, Zelda can't really safely approach him so he's more likely to found opportunities for F/Usmash.


That being said, why are we even discussing the Zelda-Pikachu matchup on the Wii Fit Trainers' Social Thread?

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Sorry FancyKong and everyone else. I tried, but failed lol That's what I get for not practicing at this game as much.

That Pika is a good friend of mine. He's top 5 in the VEGAS PR. I lost, but had a blast lol I forgot to double jump. And I ended up dying at 20% lol oh well haha

 

[crisspy727]

Alright guys I remade my list but too lazy to post on my thread and edit the whole post so here you go.
Also I added a new category which is for people who try to DI her nair for maximum survival which is either holding left or right depending which way you're facing.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...EwEu3WALpynowXnEmK6Vggw/edit?usp=docslist_api

 

[Cress!]

I just did the Nair --> Up Smash combo in an actual match.
I don't even know how, it felt so situational in training mode and I thought I would never pull it off in an actual match but it just happened and... wow. I feel really good.

(And I don't care if it was against Dedede I'm proud of myself and the fact that I did it on a heavyweight isn't going to change that.)

 

[Macchiato]

I just did the Nair --> Up Smash combo in an actual match.
I don't even know how, it felt so situational in training mode and I thought I would never pull it off in an actual match but it just happened and... wow. I feel really good.

(And I don't care if it was against Dedede I'm proud of myself and the fact that I did it on a heavyweight isn't going to change that.)

It's gr8 for punishes so ya. It's good. Every WFT should use it

 

[Exegguter]

Wassup guys, I got a few questions

Is there a logic behind the fact that sometimes upb gets mad height eventhough I didn't mash THAT hard.

How do you guys edgeguard charavters with hevay armor recoverys? I'm having trouble edgeguarding ddd/charizard, donkey kong etc. I can't succeed for some reason.

I love Nai but is it safe on shield? I find this move pretty hard to hit against smart players.

What stages should I pick as starters and cps as wft in tourney play? I actually like all of them lol especially dreamland and smashville. Any preference for you guys?

Which character is a real bad match up for her? I'm having problems with any high tier to be honest except against marios.

Sorry for any grammatical error I'm on my phone with bad WiFi lol. Thanks in advance nonetheless

 

[⑨ball]

Wassup guys, I got a few questions

Is there a logic behind the fact that sometimes upb gets mad height eventhough I didn't mash THAT hard.

How do you guys edgeguard charavters with hevay armor recoverys? I'm having trouble edgeguarding ddd/charizard, donkey kong etc. I can't succeed for some reason.

I love Nai but is it safe on shield? I find this move pretty hard to hit against smart players.

What stages should I pick as starters and cps as wft in tourney play? I actually like all of them lol especially dreamland and smashville. Any preference for you guys?

Which character is a real bad match up for her? I'm having problems with any high tier to be honest except against marios.

Sorry for any grammatical error I'm on my phone with bad WiFi lol. Thanks in advance nonetheless

UpB height is based on an increasing rhythm not increasing speed. You'll get more height by pressing b at a good rhythm than you would with turbo.

You probably mean super armor since that's what the three of them have. For reference though, all heavy armor in the game loses to bair. To keep it short and simple, use header at the ledge(while hanging for instance) to beat their super armor. DK doesn't have any on aerial default upB, so you can just challenge it horizontally with bair, or vertically with fair.

Nair is not safe on shield, but can crossup and be safe from OoS grabs if spaced correctly. It's also fast enough to bair afterwards for frame trap mixups if you SH it.

Most commonly agreed bad MUs are Pikachu and Villager. The rest tend to fluctuate but you can add Sheik too since her neutral is leagues better for now.

 

[Exegguter]

UpB height is based on an increasing rhythm not increasing speed. You'll get more height by pressing b at a good rhythm than you would with turbo.

You probably mean super armor since that's what the three of them have. For reference though, all heavy armor in the game loses to bair. To keep it short and simple, use header at the ledge(while hanging for instance) to beat their super armor. DK doesn't have any on aerial default upB, so you can just challenge it horizontally with bair, or vertically with fair.

Nair is not safe on shield, but can crossup and be safe from OoS grabs if spaced correctly. It's also fast enough to bair afterwards for frame trap mixups if you SH it.

Most commonly agreed bad MUs are Pikachu and Villager. The rest tend to fluctuate but you can add Sheik too since her neutral is leagues better for now.

Damn the typos were insane. I'm on a computer now lol.

Thanks for your answers. I also ment I'm having troubles with NO high tier except Marios lol. He's the only character who really gives me trouble. Villager and Pikachu can be a pain but they're both doable in my opinion.

 

[Fancykong]

Posting here from the Extreme Yoga thread:

So thanks to the patch, new Header Feint shenanigans are possible. Just hit the lab before bed and found two new ones:

Header Ledge Trumping(!):
When approaching from offstage, you can Header Feint, grab the ledge, and bair. This opens up new ledge trump possibilities since the ball flies diagonally upwards towards the opponent.

Header Back Throw:
Back throwing someone into the header ball at close range deals the throw's damage plus the set 8% from the ball. When done at low to mid percents, the effect looks like Pac-Man when he back throws people into his green melon. Also works with forward throw, but the timing is stricter since the throw takes longer. Up throw is a no go.

Will update with a video demo later.

EDIT: Here you go.

Header Ledge Stuff:
https://vine.co/v/eUUxUvgIi7p

Header Back Throw:
https://vine.co/v/eUUPVTliiqp

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Hey @ Fancykong did I just run into you of FG? Person's tag was Fancykong, played two rounds as green female WFT. Mine was Rhythm, played both rounds as green male WFT. First match was close but I choked at the end, and the second I got bodied. I was just wondering if it was actually you or a doppelgänger.

 

[Fancykong]

I think so. The problem with For Glory is that the internet can't keep up with several fast movements in a row, so there was severe latency on my end. After the second fight, I just said nope and left.

GGs.

Edit: Remember that you can charge SS while moving or in the air and also to move yourself using other methods besides rolling. I'm sure you noticed that I was flying around cancelling, charging, etc. Once I learned your dodge patterns, it was a wrap.

Hope to fight again....without the latency.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Yeah, I get the latency bit for sure, it happens. And I did notice you repeatedly stalling as you fell a few times, not quite sure how you did that, but it was interesting.

 

[Fancykong]

Deep Breathing stalls your aerial movement, which you can cancel by air dodging. Although the glitch was patched, you can still influence your direction a bit. SS charging also slows your descent. You can fully charge it on the go. If you hit the ground while charging, you can use any option involving a shield, including grabs, jump cancelled moves, dodging, or just blocking. Using these tools, you can really make your movement unpredictable while still dealing damage.

Header Feint, thanks to the latest patch, is also a 3rd landing option too now.

Benefits: faster aerial movement, can be fast fallen to reach the ground quickly, can lead to tricks with the ball depending on where you lead the opponent and ball to.

Drawbacks: Free-Fall state means that offstage Feints away from the ledge is death. And you still pose at the end, though it's far faster than before. Also, you can't use any other moves until you hit the ground. Use it as a bait or a last ditch way to evade your pursuer.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

I knew about the deep breathing stall and header cancels, I even used them both in our matches. I wasn't aware that SS also slowed your descent though, which explains how you were doing it repeatedly on a single fall. Thanks.

 

[Fancykong]

No problem. I actually have a number of combos gathered from other WFTs in my guide on here, my Youtube account and my Vine (which uploads faster, so I may be using that more).

 

[Cress!]

Okay, so I'm making Mario Maker levels based off of different Smash characters, and here is the one I made for Wii Fit Trainer. First level I made :3
Balance yourself!

ID: D494-0000-004D-C9B2
Basically it involves balancing and fitness stuff with a few surprises.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

I plan on attending Genesis 3 and I have to practice extra hard with Wii fit. I cannot screw up. I failed to practice for paragon, but I plan on practicing very hard this time, like I did for EVO.

 

[⑨ball]

Very likely to be a balance patch tomorrow. Here's hoping we get some lag reduction to help our neutral.

 

[Fancykong]

Cross-post from the Extreme Yoga thread:

Just wanted to show off how you can use Header Cancel to edgeguard high as well. This Mewtwo had a habit of recovering really high and teleporting. Because of my percentage, I didn't want to risk a physical edgeguard, so I covered his high option with Header Feint (can I just call it HF?) Utilt. Then I covered his teleport option by charging my SS. This caused Mewtwo to recover low, which is bad for him since his jumps and upB have ledge snap issues. Although he could have reflected, it looks like he thought that he ledge snap, but didn't, giving me a free punish. Here's the clip:

https://vine.co/v/eQnapwDw9Vb

Even if you aren't that much into projectile based combat, I believe that this edgeguarding tech needs to be implemented into your playstyle from a meta standpoint as it has very obvious uses now.

 

[Exegguter]

Cross-post from the Extreme Yoga thread:

Just wanted to show off how you can use Header Cancel to edgeguard high as well. This Mewtwo had a habit of recovering really high and teleporting. Because of my percentage, I didn't want to risk a physical edgeguard, so I covered his high option with Header Feint (can I just call it HF?) Utilt. Then I covered his teleport option by charging my SS. This caused Mewtwo to recover low, which is bad for him since his jumps and upB have ledge snap issues. Although he could have reflected, it looks like he thought that he ledge snap, but didn't, giving me a free punish. Here's the clip:

https://vine.co/v/eQnapwDw9Vb

Even if you aren't that much into projectile based combat, I believe that this edgeguarding tech needs to be implemented into your playstyle from a meta standpoint as it has very obvious uses now.

That's awesome!



------------


I've been experimenting with ss charge windbox and I find it really usefull against side b happy diddys or Nair happy dhds. I'll get a video up soon. But diddys side b kick or empty side b will get trapped in the windbox of a ss if spaced correctly which leads to a ss release or shield grab.

Running away into a b-reverse charge also traps fair happy luigis that try to chase you. Will post more after experimenting

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Hey guys, I threw up a thread about this a little less than a week ago, but since no one has responded there and I have nothing better to do with my online function currently working very poorly for no apparent reason, I thought I'd pose the same question here in hopes of getting a little bit of discussion going.

Who would you suggest using as secondaries for WFT? I've tried a few characters, but I'm often left feeling like I still have a lot of gaps to cover.

 

[Exegguter]

Hey guys, I threw up a thread about this a little less than a week ago, but since no one has responded there and I have nothing better to do with my online function currently working very poorly for no apparent reason, I thought I'd pose the same question here in hopes of getting a little bit of discussion going.

Who would you suggest using as secondaries for WFT? I've tried a few characters, but I'm often left feeling like I still have a lot of gaps to cover.

I would recommend one of the bros. (mines Luigi) for her bad match-ups like Mario, Kirby and Olimar (pikachu's meh too but doable).

Wft does fairly good against the rest of the cast and high/top tiers like zss, falcon and diddy though and wft doesn't really have any bad stages. So you can go him/her most of the time.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Fox (maybe Pikachu?) also would have a nice coverage, and he doesn't get bopped by Sheik like the Marios.

 

[John12346]

Wii Fit's worst matchups appear to be Kirby, Sheik, Villager, Ness, and Fox. It would come down to who could do the best against those 5.

I guess... Sheik, Fox, Pikachu, maybe Meta Knight?

Alternatively, if you're just looking to cover matchups that invalidate her, I believe that only extends to Kirby, so if you're looking to solely counter him, you have plenty of options. At present, I'm using Weegee for that end, but I tend to switch secondaries a lot so who knows.