The Un-Nerf Kirby Thread!

[MiraiGen]

I don't like that idea. It almost takes out Kirby's entire ***-kickery from back in SSB64 and replaces it with random-*** fighting schemes.

 

[Samochan]

Kirby's *** kickery was already taken out on ssbm, and I don't see ssb64 happening all over again. :/

 

[the grim lizard]

Kirby was one of the best characters in ssb64. He was nearly unstoppable...


...then he was nerfed. He is now 3rd from the bottom of the tier list. Why? Kirby needs to be improved. Not completely returned to his normal brokenness, but maybe somewhere in between.


some of my ideas:
-less lag time in beginning and end of downB, so it's somewhat useable
-same for neutralB, with less damage, since it would be much easier to use
-less startup lag for the dair
-all parts of final cutter hit, but for low damage
-lower short hop, perhaps. I always found the height to be bothersome, I don't know about you...
-maybe a higher crouch, since if plenty of improvements are made, he could become broken, or at least counter many more characters
-maybe while in the air, he could emit a puff of air instead of the usual neutralB (only 2nd jump or later, like the old platformers)

...so post here with your views on kirby's un-nerfing, or discuss my own.

oh, and...
wins at life!

Kirby wasn't broken in 64. I seconded him (I mained Pika), but I admit he was a lot better then. I want him to return to his former glory (since it is Sakurai's last project). I'm tired of those stupid characters like Marth/Peach/Sheik being at the top and being all over the place. And Fox needs to fall...hard.

Suggestions: Get rid of that awful dash attack. Implement the fire/burn power somewhere else or at least execute it better. I'd like to see some of this other abilities show up: ball, beam, needle, ice/freeze, wheel or maybe some of the awesome combos from Kirby64.

One thing I like(d) so much about Kirby is that virtually all of his moves come from his own games. (A and B moves and throws alike)

I say Kirby's toward B should be an attack with a weapon depending on who he sucked up. For instance, if he sucked up King Dedede then he would have the hammer. Maybe if he sucked up Bowser he would use a chain chomp. Kirby would just need a default medicore weapon for toward B until he got the power.

I agree with this. I said it once, too. But I just thought of this: What would his <B be if he had no power?? I'd like him to have both their B and side B attacks, though. I wouldn't want them to go to all the trouble of coming up with NEW moves...

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

I've stopped caring about Kirby with Metaknight in the picture. But they should make Kirby better. B^ and B> need improvements. The hammer should be much faster.

 

[the grim lizard]

Yeah I suppose the topic was pretty dormant for a while, but I have a knack for digging these things up if I'm interested...

Yes, I am glad Meta Knight is in the picture, but Kirby is still the main guy. He shouldn't suck. (Well he should. That is his ability...but you know what I mean.) And he was once awesome. He should return there. Besides, if they were both awesome, wouldn't it be cool to main Kirb and Meta?

I've stopped caring about Kirby with Metaknight in the picture. But they should make Kirby better. B^ and B> need improvements. The hammer should be much faster.

There is nothing wrong with ^B. It's as good as it was in 64. I agree that the hammer needs revamped somehow, and it should actually be beneficial to have copied a power. Half the time, you spend so much effort getting it, and then...the power is worthless. Or, you lose it after like 5%. Since it's so hard to even copy anyone, they should have to knock the crap out of you for you to lose the power...

 

[MarsBitrona]

I would be pretty upset if they made Kirby as powerful as he was in SSB64. I generally refuse to play as characters who are considered to be extra powerful or easy to dominate with. One of the reasons I love playing as Kirby in SSBM is because it's much more rewarding to win with a character that requires a little more than spamming one or two moves. I would hate to have to give up a character I love playing as in Melee just to see him in the hands of the same folks who play as Marth or Sheik just because they can easily win matches. Kirby was by no means weak in SSBM and I could compete against some very skilled Marth, Sheik and Falco players. I like a character that takes a little work to win with, it's great for proving a person's dedication to a certain character and not just their forward smash.

 

[rm88]

As I've said before (copy/paste), Kirby needs:

- An improved hammer
- A better dash attack
- A more effective Fair
- A less laggy Nair
- His old Fsmash and Usmash...
- More range in his tilts
- The ability to choose what move to copy from the enemy

He doesn't need to be SSB64 Kirby again, but making him middle tier would be nice enough.

 

[the grim lizard]

And dont' forget that stupid dash attack...

But, seriously, I think you guys need to go back and pick up SSB64 again because I think your perception of Kirby is a bit misconstrued. He was a lot better back then, but not in the regard that Sheik and Marth are in Melee. In truth, 64 was pretty balanced, but maybe that's because tournaments weren't as big of a deal back then or something...

But I know a lot of guys who play the 64 smash a lot and the characters seem pretty balanced. Kirby, Pikachu, Fox, Ness, Jigglypuff...all pretty even. Kirby didn't own everyone, but he was a lot better than in Melee.

In short, he needs some of his moves fixed (as mentioned), but even restoring his former 64 glory wouldn't be a bad thing...

 

[killbeast301]

I'd like to see some of this other abilities show up: ball, beam, needle, ice/freeze, wheel or maybe some of the awesome combos from Kirby64.

Exploding Ninja-Stars FTW!!!

 

[bluebomber22]

And dont' forget that stupid dash attack...

But, seriously, I think you guys need to go back and pick up SSB64 again because I think your perception of Kirby is a bit misconstrued. He was a lot better back then, but not in the regard that Sheik and Marth are in Melee. In truth, 64 was pretty balanced, but maybe that's because tournaments weren't as big of a deal back then or something...

But I know a lot of guys who play the 64 smash a lot and the characters seem pretty balanced. Kirby, Pikachu, Fox, Ness, Jigglypuff...all pretty even. Kirby didn't own everyone, but he was a lot better than in Melee.

In short, he needs some of his moves fixed (as mentioned), but even restoring his former 64 glory wouldn't be a bad thing...

Most people dont realize it, but ssb64 was a much more balanced game. You pretty much had a 50/50 shot at winning as long as you didnt pick link (unless you're ridiculously good). I think Sakurai realized this as well which is why he said he would make this game with balance in mind.

But yeah Kirby wasn't broken in ssb64. if you exploit his weakness (his wieght), and guard against his strength (edge-guarding), you should be fine. Kirby should go back to his 64 status and become a character worth picking again.

 

[rm88]

With only 12 characters, it was way more balanced than Melee. <3 SSB64, I want it on my Wii VC now.

 

[the grim lizard]

Most people dont realize it, but ssb64 was a much more balanced game. You pretty much had a 50/50 shot at winning as long as you didnt pick link (unless you're ridiculously good). I think Sakurai realized this as well which is why he said he would make this game with balance in mind.

That's true; it was a lot more balanced (minus Link because of his sucky recovery). I honestly don't think you could really have tiers in 64, but I think a lot of factors played into Melee being unbalanced. For the most part though, the mid to low tiers are pretty balanced within themselves...it's just the people at the very top who were way too strong. I think another factor that played into this was that wavedashing wasn't a consideration at all when they were developing it.

I won't drag this out, but in short, I hope the gameplay is more like 64 than Melee, but closer to the speed in Melee than 64. Yeah, balance is gonna be a good thing...

 

[Ippius]

Is it just me or is Kirby actually slightly larger from the pics....Looks kinda strange. They should bring back some of his strengths in SB64 to attract more people to play as him...
Still looks like a cute puffball at least.

 

[ClarkJables]

they need to change his dashA move, cause right now it sucks


also evidence of ssbb going back to its ssb64 roots, the bumper...

 

[Ippius]

I dunno how that bumper can stick on thin air...Anything can happen I suppose in SSBB...

 

[Pomfrod]

KIRBY MUST BE UN-NERFED!



I completely agree with all of your ideas except lowering the lag of the neutralB. The lag isn't that much of a problem.

I think they should do this for the un-nerfing of Kirby.
-if Kirby swallows another kirby, he will get a random neutral B from any playable character in Brawl. If they did this, it adds a luck factor in a the Kirby dittos.

I'm also very disappointed in the fact that Kirby's Crash ability won't be used as his Super move. that's one bad step in the wrong direction for un-nerfing Kirby.

First off, we haven't seen how the Cook FS works in-game, so that's a completely unbased statement. And are you aware that in KSS, the Cook did the same thing as Crash, only Cook gave you food for any enemy that died and the Crash didn't? Seems like Cook would be the better option, for that and for the fact that it's not a generic explosion/fire like Mario's and Samus'.

And the game, if there is any hope left in the world, should be balanced without the final smashes, and each final smash should be on par with every other final smash.

 

[Jackal478]

Any character is good in the right hands.

Leave the characters like they are I say.

 

[Kirby knight]

Oh my this Mario update should give everyone that is a Kirby fan some hope for some new moves since Mario's vB is now replaced but now (What looks like his dair has been changed to Mario Tornado).

What moves do you think of Kirby's should be replaced and Added to his A button movelist? Suggestions of other moves he could have would be greatful. ^_^ (I'll think of some later on).

-Knight

 

[Lord Viper]

They took the idea from Kirby Super Star on todays update. Kirby is still the best character in melee and brawl when I play him.

 

[Lord Viper]

Best final smash ever!!!!!!!!

 

[silver777]

Kirby will cook you to death.

 

[saud]

I will try maining Kirby again!!!!

Main in SSB64

Ex-main in SSBM (changed to fox + jigglypuff)

Potential main in SSBB

 

[lukintosh]

Kirby's my main in 64 and I might do the same in Brawl... maybe a secondary?

And yes his FS looks good.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I love how people are mentioning kirby's Final Smash like it has any meaning. Lets be honest, if competitive play in brawl follows melee's example, you wont be seeing much of the final smashes anyway because they are activated via an item. So forget about the fact that kirby's FS isnt Crash and just hope that HAL will un-nerf kirby with some power moves and useful throws. Or at the very least, unbreakable throws, so we can kirbycide to our content.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I love how people are mentioning kirby's Final Smash like it has any meaning. Lets be honest, if competitive play in brawl follows melee's example, you wont be seeing much of the final smashes anyway because they are activated via an item. So forget about the fact that kirby's FS isnt Crash and just hope that HAL will un-nerf kirby with some power moves and useful throws. Or at the very least, unbreakable throws, so we can kirbycide to our content.

Do you think everyone plays competitive rules? No, that's boring...

 

[Lord Viper]

I love how people are mentioning kirby's Final Smash like it has any meaning. Lets be honest, if competitive play in brawl follows melee's example, you wont be seeing much of the final smashes anyway because they are activated via an item. So forget about the fact that kirby's FS isnt Crash and just hope that HAL will un-nerf kirby with some power moves and useful throws. Or at the very least, unbreakable throws, so we can kirbycide to our content.

I completely agree with you, don't forget his basic b move needs to be longer, the lates one's were.

 

[Gilgamesh]

I am old enough I was Luigi. Irrelevent other characters would naturally change the tiers your logic is flawed about the tiers transferring.

Gotta give the man some respect, he was Luigi after all.

Yet i wonder why he stopped being the Green man.



About kirby, i would make some simple changes. First, his Side B move should be the Fireball instead of his dash attack, and of course, it should be made stronger (like peach's Hip Attack). His dash attack should be completely different, and if they do keep the hammer, for God's sake: make it stronger.

 

[Kirby knight]

I love how people are mentioning kirby's Final Smash like it has any meaning. Lets be honest, if competitive play in brawl follows melee's example, you wont be seeing much of the final smashes anyway because they are activated via an item.

I don't see the point your trying to make. Competitive play isn't the only way to play smash; at least last time I checked :/

-Knight

 

[error_alt_delete]

kirby definatly needs to be un-nerfed and improved, i used him in melee and i could fight the heavier characters....but thats it.

 

[Samochan]

I love how people are mentioning kirby's Final Smash like it has any meaning. Lets be honest, if competitive play in brawl follows melee's example, you wont be seeing much of the final smashes anyway because they are activated via an item.

I don't see the point your trying to make. Competitive play isn't the only way to play smash; at least last time I checked :/

-Knight

It still wouldn't make a difference if kirby were to stay the same for brawl. Against any good character from the melee roster I couldn't foresee kirby ever getting ahold of any smash ball due to him being so sucky, and even if he were to get so lucky he'd never get to use it since he's busy getting comboed and KO'ed at 60%. >_>

Every character gets final smashes anyway so they have an even stand when they are considered, but the characters themselves definitely aren't on even standing at melee. So the point is to make the actual characters better so they can be used without outer aid like items or teammate. >_> Otherwise if the character can't handle anything it will be a bad character, like Kirby was in melee, so I really hope they do puff his skills, stats and data all around.

 

[Not A Naruto Wannabe]

Kirby is unstoppable in his games as well - why should he be toned DOWN for a fighting game?

Un nerfing kirby would be great. how, I dont know or care but he should be made better

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Kirby is unstoppable in his games as well - why should he be toned DOWN for a fighting game?

Un nerfing kirby would be great. how, I dont know or care but he should be made better

Well in his games he's fighting enemies that are a few inches-barely a few feet

 

[Lord Viper]

I guess all people can't master kriby without any trouble huh? He is still unstopable in the right hands, any unworthy people can't master kriby, he choose the choosen one.

 

[silver777]

Kirby Super Star remake on DS confirmed!! (along with Fire Emblem 1-3 remake on DS too!!)

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Oh hell yeah! I am now officially happy I bought a DS instead of a PSP!!!

Coming to US?

 

[Lord Viper]

The greats kirby game of all time is on the DS!!!!!!

 

[GimmeAnFSharp]

Oh hell yeah! I am now officially happy I bought a DS instead of a PSP!!!

Coming to US?

I would say it's safe to assume; Superstar might just be Kirby's best game... it's good enough that most of the Subspace Emissary/Adventure mode in Brawl seems to draw from it, from the style of play, the second non-protagonist character, to the bosses!

 

[axemangx]

Oh man.. This game is so going to be mine. I now know what DS game I want for Christmas if that comes out early.

Superstar DS.


Wow. I am officially happy.

 

[MysticKenji]

SNIP FOR GREAT JUSTICE

This is epic win.

I've gotta get this.

 

[SithLordR2D2]

Wow, Super Star for DS, that is truly epic win.

I agree with many of the comments made here. I mained Kirby in 64 and still main him in melee, but have had to take on other characters, namely Falco, to have compete against some of my friends. I still use kirby quite often, but it makes me sad that he was nerfed so badly from SSB to SSBM. The thing that struck me most is that once someone knows how to fight a kirby, the match has taken a drastic turn for the worse for Kirby. Often times this isn't a problem, but it still means that the characters a Kirby player would more likely fight against, ie Bowser, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, are going to probably know how to play against a Kirby. I'm not saying that Kirby has no chance, far from it.

My hope for Kirby in brawl is that his moves overall have higher priority and less lag. Most of Kirby's moves had lag or low priority, which made him easy to combo and harder for you to combo with him.