The Twilight Princess: Midna for Smash: Ya Gotta Have Wolf Link

[Kenith]

I kind of like the idea of hiding in Wolf Link's shadow which is something i never implemented in my moveset. I honestly think it'd be better if Wolf Link was the "anchor" of the moveset because the nature of Midna's character means she can do a lot of crazy stuff if she's not the main hitbox.

 

[andimidna]

Wait what do you mean by “anchor”

Also, currently nominating Midna to get ranked on the Rate Their Chances thread. Ik it’ll be a lot of comparing to other Zelda characters because there are so many popular options, but I still think she deserves a day : )

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

I believe Kenith is referring to who the stock is linked to. So if wolf link is the anchor, he'd be the one the opponent(s) needs to knock off stage, not Midna. For Rosalina and Luma, Rosalina is the anchor, for the Ice Climbers it's Popo and not Nana.

 

[andimidna]

Ohh I read “a lot of crazy stuff” in the connotation of it being a problem, rather than something positive. That’s interesting, what all do you have in mind for that?
I think Hyrule Warriors shows Midna as the anchor and Shadow Wolf/ Wolf Link as the asset has a lot of crazy potential too

Edit: What are your thoughts on if her fused shadow form could just be her down Smash, with an animation like Corrin’s counter?

 

[Malkior7]

After Hyrule Warriors her viability as a character skyrocketed for me. I definitely support her being in now

However I want her to be riding a generic Twilight wolf (like in Hyrule Warriors) rather than Wolf Link mainly because I feel Wolf Link would overshadow her she would feel like her own character that way rather than "Wolf Link featuring Midna".

Unfortunately I still feel her chances lower than it should be due to Twilight Princess' lack of relevancy and that it's already known that Link is being modeled after Breath of the Wild. (and yes I know TP got ported to Wii U and the Wolf could be brought into BotW as a companion but I feel BotW basically overshadowed the game as a whole.)

 

[Graizen]

 

[andimidna]

Cute

I definitely get where you’re coming from.
For the redesign, I definitely don’t feel there has to be consistency in what game they’re pulled from alongside the designs of others. People feel this way, but seem to consider Toon Link a separate entity, rather than a reason against this. If anything, with no Twilight Princess designs and a potential new moveset for Link, that leaves me wanting Twilight Princess representation. Without counting remakes, I believe it is the most successful Zelda games, and with remakes, 2nd after OoT. With Hyrule Warriors’s impact, I hope there’s more of an opportunity to look at the series as a whole, considering both recurring characters like Impa and popular characters from the past like Skull Kid and Midna. From what I’ve seen, it doesn’t seem like a single character from BotW stands out above the rest, aside from Link of course. I see about 6 names commonly mentioned about the same amount, being Urbosa, Mipha, Daruk, Revali, Sidon, and one other that’s not coming to me atm. I haven’t played it yet, since I don’t have a switch, so these are just my thoughts based on that.
Honestly, it doesn’t seem like the dev team to pick a character just to fit a rep, if a single one doesn’t stand out especially. Maybe that’s not the case. I don’t know. Personally, I’m kind of hoping for different BotW concepts to be thrown on Impa instead So Link can still feel like Link while representing BotW and the rest of his series. And I don’t think 2 unique new characters from Zelda is unwarranted when they’ve had a drought since Melee despite multiple interesting, unique characters surging into popularity.
I wouldn’t be too surprised if a BotW character got in, but part of me just isn’t able to get fully on board with the concept. Just thinking of the impact on the series of Midna vs Urbosa.
Another possibility is the “moveset comes first” concept, where a certain fighting style is desired, so they find the ideal character to put the concept on, and fit it to them. I might be wrong, but I think that’s partially what happened with Rosalina? Obviously, Midna doesn’t have what 2013 Rosa had, but that’s still an idea.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Midna and Urbosa, you say?

Perfect, let’s do it. Both awesome, and I want to see them both in.

 

[andimidna]

I want BotW sm. It looks soo good. Just gotta finish this semester and I get to go back home to my TV and maybe buy a Switch if I can

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It was incredible. I’m a little annoyed that Link’s a righty, but it was a great take on Zelda, especially since it did feel a bit like Skyrim or another western RPG.

The champions were great characters, but Urbosa and Revali are the best. Both have grwat voice actors, and have a really nicely developed personality. Personally, Daruk’s a bit generic but he owns it, and Mipha was ok at best. I think she had a weak voice and most of her popularity is drawn from her being waifu material (or people wanting to bang her brother).

The personaity of side characters has been getting a lot better in Zelda games though. I remember my first run throughs - Navi was an exposition fairy par excellence, but then Tatl started to brong in a snarky attitude I liked. And then Twilight Princess gave us this royal ***** who you wanted to beat the **** out of, and then halfway through the game you like her so much that you literally sprint to Hyrule Castle to try to save. That was excellently done.

 

[Aetheri]

Cute

I definitely get where you’re coming from.
For the redesign, I definitely don’t feel there has to be consistency in what game they’re pulled from alongside the designs of others. People feel this way, but seem to consider Toon Link a separate entity, rather than a reason against this. If anything, with no Twilight Princess designs and a potential new moveset for Link, that leaves me wanting Twilight Princess representation. Without counting remakes, I believe it is the most successful Zelda games, and with remakes, 2nd after OoT. With Hyrule Warriors’s impact, I hope there’s more of an opportunity to look at the series as a whole, considering both recurring characters like Impa and popular characters from the past like Skull Kid and Midna. From what I’ve seen, it doesn’t seem like a single character from BotW stands out above the rest, aside from Link of course. I see about 6 names commonly mentioned about the same amount, being Urbosa, Mipha, Daruk, Revali, Sidon, and one other that’s not coming to me atm. I haven’t played it yet, since I don’t have a switch, so these are just my thoughts based on that.
Honestly, it doesn’t seem like the dev team to pick a character just to fit a rep, if a single one doesn’t stand out especially. Maybe that’s not the case. I don’t know. Personally, I’m kind of hoping for different BotW concepts to be thrown on Impa instead So Link can still feel like Link while representing BotW and the rest of his series. And I don’t think 2 unique new characters from Zelda is unwarranted when they’ve had a drought since Melee despite multiple interesting, unique characters surging into popularity.
I wouldn’t be too surprised if a BotW character got in, but part of me just isn’t able to get fully on board with the concept. Just thinking of the impact on the series of Midna vs Urbosa.
Another possibility is the “moveset comes first” concept, where a certain fighting style is desired, so they find the ideal character to put the concept on, and fit it to them. I might be wrong, but I think that’s partially what happened with Rosalina? Obviously, Midna doesn’t have what 2013 Rosa had, but that’s still an idea.

I want to say Kass is the other one, even though he's a bard and doesn't fight (though that hasn't stopped characters like Villager and Wii Fit)...BotW as far as potential fighters for Smash (outside of Link and Zelda, who will more than likely just be reskins of the originals with some slight tweaks to their movesets) doesn't have anything big that stands out unlike previous Zelda titles...it's pretty evenly split between the Champions mostly and I really don't see Sakurai cramming all four into the game as playable, this would be like him putting the three Bounty hunters from Corruption into Brawl...actually a decent example since like in Corruption the champions are canonically dead which makes any future appearances not likely...and that's one thing Sakurai looks for when adding characters sometimes (with exceptions here and there of course)...

Midna is a character that may not have any more significant future appearances nor too much relevance outside of Hyrule Warriors, but is a character that is not only popular amoung the Zelda fanbase but has arguably the most demand for a return to the series (I mean she's got a frikkin website dedicated to wanting her back)...also as far as Zelda characters go, Midna is arguably one of the easiest to work with as far as unique movesets goes, and even then Sakurai has made something from nothing for characters who would seem to not have anything to work with...
IMO the best shot she has is if Sakurai notices the demand for a new Zelda fighter and he'll look over the best candidates from the Zelda series, which includes Midna, and that would be enough for him to add her into the game seeing the potential she has...Not every character he adds is always immediately relevant nor are they always retro picks either...Bowser Jr. comes to mind...

Also, Zelda getting two new characters isn't much of a stretch since in Smash 4 Mario and Kid Icarus both got 2 new characters each, while Fire Emblem got 3 new characters...Plus Zelda did get 4 new characters in melee so there's that...this is going off of the whole number of reps thing that Sakurai doesn't hold too much water to, he does consider it but if he's convinced that the character will be fun he'll make the exception, like he did with Corrin...

Edit: On the topic of Urbosa she was definitely my favourite of the four champions, I liked the relationship she had with Zelda...

That and Urbosa's Fury was fun to abuse...

 

[andimidna]

I want to say Kass is the other one, even though he's a bard and doesn't fight (though that hasn't stopped characters like Villager and Wii Fit)...BotW as far as potential fighters for Smash (outside of Link and Zelda, who will more than likely just be reskins of the originals with some slight tweaks to their movesets) doesn't have anything big that stands out unlike previous Zelda titles...it's pretty evenly split between the Champions mostly and I really don't see Sakurai cramming all four into the game as playable, this would be like him putting the three Bounty hunters from Corruption into Brawl...actually a decent example since like in Corruption the champions are canonically dead which makes any future appearances not likely...and that's one thing Sakurai looks for when adding characters sometimes (with exceptions here and there of course)...

Midna is a character that may not have any more significant future appearances nor too much relevance outside of Hyrule Warriors, but is a character that is not only popular amoung the Zelda fanbase but has arguably the most demand for a return to the series (I mean she's got a frikkin website dedicated to wanting her back)...also as far as Zelda characters go, Midna is arguably one of the easiest to work with as far as unique movesets goes, and even then Sakurai has made something from nothing for characters who would seem to not have anything to work with...
IMO the best shot she has is if Sakurai notices the demand for a new Zelda fighter and he'll look over the best candidates from the Zelda series, which includes Midna, and that would be enough for him to add her into the game seeing the potential she has...Not every character he adds is always immediately relevant nor are they always retro picks either...Bowser Jr. comes to mind...

Also, Zelda getting two new characters isn't much of a stretch since in Smash 4 Mario and Kid Icarus both got 2 new characters each, while Fire Emblem got 3 new characters...Plus Zelda did get 4 new characters in melee so there's that...this is going off of the whole number of reps thing that Sakurai doesn't hold too much water to, he does consider it but if he's convinced that the character will be fun he'll make the exception, like he did with Corrin...

Edit: On the topic of Urbosa she was definitely my favourite of the four champions, I liked the relationship she had with Zelda...

That and Urbosa's Fury was fun to abuse...

I think popularity is definitely the most important factor alongside promotion, with moveset there for special circumstances, among others. Because of the Smash Ballot, I’m inclined to think that popularity will actually be more important than ever, especially since most of the “crucial” characters are seasoned veterans.
And that was really well put. I love the Bowser Jr example. His big game was on the GameCube, yet he continued to be popular and appearing in spin-offs. Now, obviously, she isn’t quite that caliber (Hyrule Warriors doesn’t match to the many Mario spin-offs and he even still appears in NSMB games), but very few characters can reach the caliber of a ton of Mario Characters honestly. If we threw the catagorization by series away entirely and picked the 50 most recognizable Nintendo characters, I’m willing to bet almost half would be Mario Characters. That’s just the nature of the Mario series and its iconic status. So, yea, I love that comparison.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I really wish character threads didnt assume the character HAD to be playable.

I love Midna. Every game she is in gives me pleasure. But I don't thinks she will be more than an Assist Trophy.
The threads that dont list non playable options in the polls seem to say you do not like the character if you do not think they should/will be playable.

 

[Aetheri]

I really wish character threads didnt assume the character HAD to be playable.

I love Midna. Every game she is in gives me pleasure. But I don't thinks she will be more than an Assist Trophy.
The threads that dont list non playable options in the polls seem to say you do not like the character if you do not think they should/will be playable.

Well...

As an assist trophy, you hardly ever get to see Midna (or any character that's an assist trophy) even if you do play with items on each assist trophy only has a certain chance of appearing and even if they do, it's only for a few short seconds...and some of us prefer to play without items on so we never get to see these characters at all...which is why people are not fond of the idea of characters becoming assist trophies...

Getting in the game in any way is one thing, heck pretty much any character can get into the game in any way, whether as an assist trophy, trophy, or sticker (like in Brawl) but becoming playable carries a different kind of weight...

Also the poll options for this particular poll are likely specifically for those people who would have different ideas on how Midna would function as a playable character since she is a character that has various different options for being playable...Midna is one of those characters that can come into the playable roster in completely different ways due to her forms and partnership with Wolf Link, it's hypothetical...

 

[Kenith]

I really wish character threads didnt assume the character HAD to be playable.

I love Midna. Every game she is in gives me pleasure. But I don't thinks she will be more than an Assist Trophy.
The threads that dont list non playable options in the polls seem to say you do not like the character if you do not think they should/will be playable.

Why would anyone make a support thread or poll for a character to not be playable?

Ohh I read “a lot of crazy stuff” in the connotation of it being a problem, rather than something positive. That’s interesting, what all do you have in mind for that?
I think Hyrule Warriors shows Midna as the anchor and Shadow Wolf/ Wolf Link as the asset has a lot of crazy potential too

Edit: What are your thoughts on if her fused shadow form could just be her down Smash, with an animation like Corrin’s counter?

I think it should be the Final Smash because there really much else to use for that tbh. Maybe her Twili form but idk, it just seems so obvious.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Why would anyone make a support thread or poll for a character to not be playable?

I love a lot of characters. There are plenty that i think have it best to be non playable but make it in. Why does that not count as character support?

 

[Aetheri]

I love a lot of characters. There are plenty that i think have it best to be non playable but make it in. Why does that not count as character support?

I mean sure, you can support a character to be an assist trophy or have some other role if that's your prerogative...But don't you think it'd be a lot more fun if you're able to actually play as them as opposed to just have them on the sidelines and never to actually use them?

For the most part, that's pretty much the point of these support threads to begin with...people are supporting characters they want to be playable in Smash...



I support Midna to be a playable fighter not only because I like the character, but I think she'd be amazingly fun to use as a playable character in Smash...I can't exactly speak for everyone but, I'm sure a lot of them would be in the same boat for their respective characters as well...

 

[andimidna]

I was excited to see her as an assist at least last time around, because it was new, but I can’t say I’d feel that again with the reveal of its return lmao
I guess there are characters I like that I’m pushing for other roles, like Daisy as an alt and Tiki as an assist. You do you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Kenith]

IDK. It's kind of weird to me to say "I support this character...being an item! Again!" Realistically, yes, Midna is not exactly a frontrunner in likelihood, but actively wanting the AT to come back instead of a character is...not really support. In fact it kind of feels like the opposite to people that want them playable.

 

[andimidna]

Yea, of course I wouldn’t hate it returning. There’s just be that same little bit of disappointment.

So I was thinking of a down Bs to replace the one I had that was a little too much, and I think reusing the concept of negative zone could be interesting, where a small circle of the stage succumbs to Twilight, which could slow opponents down slightly as they pass through it. Doesn’t that sound cool?

 

[andimidna]

b u m p

I’m gonna start drafting my Midna post for the Rate Their Chances thread now tbh. Even though that won’t happen until a few days into April.

I don’t know how heavily to weigh the TPHD remake? What do ou guys think?
Argument: It’s release matches up almost exactly with the end of regular Smash 4 updates/ DLC
Counter: It seemed like far less of a production than the OoT and MM remakes, as it still didn’t look on par with other Wii U games. Furthermore, it didn’t sell much, as opposed to the initial release.
Argument: But OoT and MM had more to fix up and were from much longer ago. The remake might’ve just been too soon and for the wrong console. The 3ds has a lower expectation for how the game should look, but is a far more popular system.
Counter: Part of the success of TP in the first place is being a launch title for the extremely successful Wii, which makes it the best selling Zelda when ignoring remakes, and 2nd best when considering remakes.
Argument: What matters is its merits and not the circumstances that led up to them.

At the end of the day, at least if existed lmao. Idk what to think about it. I still need to get the remake. I was just waiting for a cheaper price/ used copy.

 

[Kenith]

i had to get it on launch. i couldn't wait.

It certainly helps their case. I wish it had been announced/released before the ballot ended. Or maybe they greenlit the amiibo because of requests on the ballot?

 

[andimidna]

Sorry for not talking here lately, I’ve been on spring break
Idk if this link will work, but https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/318541807975792640/429662480827023380/image.png
Yay Midna got the 3rd most nominations throughout March and will be up for rating soon, probably on April 2nd

Also, I’ve been thinking of the possibility that Link or Zelda gets totally reworked, and they want to keep those assets they developed or tweaked for the previous game around for those that like that style. I really wonder if transformation characters will come back. Midna’s true form could be an easy pick to reuse old Zelda assets if they want to make Zelda play more like Zelda lmao

 

[Kenith]

Not sure how I would feel about transformations returning but id take her in any form she takes.

but uh...Midna getting saddled with Zelda's old moveset...yikes

 

[Aetheri]

I've thought of the possibility of a True form Midna being sort of a semi-clone of Zelda with use of her Twili magic...

Not the most ideal way of putting her in the game as a playable character I might add...doesn't really take advantage of her full potential...

 

[Lyndis4Smash]

Whilst I recognize Midna isn't likely, Twilight Princess was a great game and I'd be stoked if Midna was playable. Definitely think it should her imp form and Wolf Link, no transformation unless it's a part of her final smash or something. You never really see much of her Twili form and although Hyrule Warriors expanded on it, it's still a spin-off series.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Midna is being rated tomorrow in RTC, be sure to spring by.

 

[andimidna]

I was about to say the same thing yay : )
I still haven’t decided exactly on a chance score for her
There’s so much to consider, but at the end of the day there’s a handful of popular Zelda options, so it’s hard to put any of them particularly high. I definitely wouldn’t rank any individual above 50 from the series tbh
But I’ll still make my case why it’s worth considering, even if I give her like a 10% lol

Edit: It began and my post is pretty messy lmao

 

[PrinceGal3n]

Count me in as a supporter! Midna would be amazing!!

 

[Aetheri]

EVERYONE WAKE UP!!!!


SourceGaming recently did their Rate That Character episode featuring Midna (surprisingly generous with her odds I have to admit)

Also found this video by Zeltik going over his concept for Wolf Link & Midna in Smash

 

[Sage of Ice]

oh hell yes, midna

i'm sure i'm in the minority when i say i'd rather not have wolf link attached to her, but it's certainly not a deal breaker. if it means getting not only a long-overdue new zelda character, but my favorite zelda character of all, then i'd take her however they'd give her to me.

 

[andimidna]

Oml I didn’t realize this thread didn’t have any activity
I’d been too busy with school stuff to be active, but that’s done, so I’ll be here more
I’ll check out those videos asap yey

 

[verysleepywolf]

Wolf Link used to be my avatar for a long time. My first obsession with Wolf Link's design was during the TP trailer that finally revealed him. The fact that Wolf Link is a subconscious manifestation of Aonuma is very interesting.

I don't think Midna's moveset would benefit from having Wolf Link underneath her the entire time. I also think that having him in there would drag the spotlight off of Midna, who is more than interesting enough to be her own character. Duck Hunt has a simplified design that makes it work, but Wolf LInk and Midna both demand enough of their own attention apart from one another that wouldn't they look kind of stiff if forced to follow the same animation frames? What would their tumble animation look like? Their roll animation? I guess Midna would be hunkered down against Wolf Link's back most of the time, sticking to him like glue. I want Midna to be the focus, not Wolf Link.

Midna is my second most wanted Zelda character. Her moveset would be beautiful, she has all that she needs in that regard. I don't ever expect playable in a SSB game though.

 

[Aetheri]

Wolf Link used to be my avatar for a long time. My first obsession with Wolf Link's design was during the TP trailer that finally revealed him. The fact that Wolf Link is a subconscious manifestation of Aonuma is very interesting.

I don't think Midna's moveset would benefit from having Wolf Link underneath her the entire time. I also think that having him in there would drag the spotlight off of Midna, who is more than interesting enough to be her own character. Duck Hunt has a simplified design that makes it work, but Wolf LInk and Midna both demand enough of their own attention apart from one another that wouldn't they look kind of stiff if forced to follow the same animation frames? What would their tumble animation look like? Their roll animation? I guess Midna would be hunkered down against Wolf Link's back most of the time, sticking to him like glue. I want Midna to be the focus, not Wolf Link.

Midna is my second most wanted Zelda character. Her moveset would be beautiful, she has all that she needs in that regard. I don't ever expect playable in a SSB game though.

I would imagine during hitstun animations and such it'd be similar to the Duck in Duck Hunt as she'd just fly along side him...

When you Game Over in TP as Wolf Link, Midna just sort of floats there as you die....so I can see stuff like that happen...or perhaps she just vanishes 9or hides in Wolf Link's shadow) when he is sent flying then reappears as soon as the player inputs an attack so if he's in a tumble animation Midna is hiding until the player regains control again...

Either that or she'd just be holding onto his back the entire time...


In any case, I understand that having Wolf Link does take some of the spotlight away from Midna, but since she is a Zelda companion having them team up together makes a lot of sense since Wolf Link's entire combat is centered around his physical attacks and Midna's Twili magic as support...plus they are both more iconic together rather than apart, although Midna could very well hold her own as a solo character whereas if Wolf Link was added he would have to be paired with Midna so he'd be a lot more interesting of a character...

 

[FunAtParties]

Needs a support list.

Absolutely down for Midna. I'm fine with Wolf Link, but I don't see why it's so important for some people. Midna can be the one true grappler.

 

[AlphaSSB]

EVERYONE WAKE UP!!!!


SourceGaming recently did their Rate That Character episode featuring Midna (surprisingly generous with her odds I have to admit)

Also found this video by Zeltik going over his concept for Wolf Link & Midna in Smash

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one. 40% is a bit generous for her, in my opinion, but a more optimistic outlook is nice to see.

As for Zeltik's moveset, it's pretty good. A bit more Wolf Link focuses than I'd like, as I prefer it focus around Midna, but I'd be content with it.

 

[SEGAGameBoy]

Definitely add me to the supporters!

 

[Zem-raj]

First 4 Figures have revealed their figure of TF Midna:

Three options: Standard, Exclusive, and Definitive.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Stopping by to show my support, I'd love Midna in Smash! She's one of my most wanted.

 

[ZealousGamer]

Well to be fair; if we do get Midna with Wolf Link it'd be "They".

Of course I want her to be solo though. I feel as though Wolf Link would end up being the focus and Midna would just be much like Luma with Rosalina.