LOL_Master
Smash Lord
Swiftbass. Amazing.
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The Tunes Official Crew Thread - Legit the best crew in the world.
- Thread starter Eggm
- Start date
This new forum layout is kinda annoying.
So Tunes ! This is the last week to pay for Six Flags. The last day is on Sunday, so please get your money in on time. The date is for July 11th - let me know if you want meal vouchers or not. Exciting!
So Tunes ! This is the last week to pay for Six Flags. The last day is on Sunday, so please get your money in on time. The date is for July 11th - let me know if you want meal vouchers or not. Exciting!
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
LOL_Master
Smash Lord
LMAO, BEST FINALS GAME EVR
did you see garnett's expression? man, only a real man can do that
"Ma I'm on top of da worrrrllllddd!"
did you see garnett's expression? man, only a real man can do that
"Ma I'm on top of da worrrrllllddd!"
Scar
#HarveyDent
QFT. The game is bigger than just Fox and Falco. Everyone else gets ***** by her.
LOL_Master
Smash Lord
yet mango says his jiggs beats any shieks
trademark0013
Smash Champion
at 4am est... *cough*
JFox
Smash Hero
I don't get how people see Sheik as so good, when Marth ***** the low tiers AND the high tiers just as hard. Not to mention he handles himself well vs spacies. Really all he can't handle is that ***** sheik. =/
LOL_Master
Smash Lord
remember, it is m2k that handles marth that well, don't forget that
Sheik isn't good.
Your right pretty much. She does handle low tiers well since she can CG a lot of them. But she does bad vs the top and high tiers too except for like peach, and marth. Oh and sheik too >_>
Eggm
Smash Hero
Fox/Marth/Sheik are in a class of their own as the best characters. No one really argues with this. If I had to pick a best out of them it would certainly be Marth. The best players have always used marth successfully, m2k azen ken. I think fox is just as good and is used almost as often but takes more skill to play at the highest levels consistently good. So I would say sheiks 3rd best. Fox 2nd.
trademark0013
Smash Champion
meh. fox gets gayed fairly easily, even at high lvls of play, where marth and shiek dont
takieddine
Smash Master
I still have faith in Fox *cries*.
Peach is too.. good?
T_T
Sheik is awful
T_T
Sheik is awful
LOL_Master
Smash Lord
fox is the easiest : P
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
i think that was completely serious lol
alukard is awesome, samus is tooo good
alukard is awesome, samus is tooo good
teh_spamerer
Smash Master
Starting at 40, Sheik is a victim to
waveshine across stage --> dsmash --> edgehog --> repeat until death from Fox. It doesn't matter if she can gimp him, he can take her from anywhere on the stage and kill her starting at 40.
%'s you can still CC Sheik's attacks with fast fallers
ftilt ~80
dtilt - 100+
slightly charged upsmash - 40s-50(you have to CC tech it starting somewhere in that range)
fsmash - first hit for a very long time if not forever
dair - 70+
dash attack ~60
CC any of these and you get a shine to potential death combo.
Attacks Sheik cannot hit your shield safely with(though you don't even HAVE to shield, you can just tank her attacks LOL)
ftilt
dsmash
jab
any aeriel not spaced
dash attack
possibly dtilt(I haven't tested it but Sheik is a mediocre character so it probably works)
ftilt, dsmash, and possibly dtilt you can punish with wavedash out of shield --> shine, she can't do anything about it. Jab can be punished with shine out of shield; the same goes for any aeriel not spaced and dash attack. Shine leads to potentially a death combo. Look at all those opportunities you have to combo her to death that come WHEN SHE HITS YOU and WHEN SHE HITS YOUR SHIELD! That is highly unfair for her. Also, every time she has to land on the stage with her up B she might as well just up B off the stage. If you don't mess up she dies. This is why Sheik can never, ever, be the best character in the game. No amount of skill can make up for these massive problems she has against space animals assuming they're playing well.
Cia
das kwl
spammer - in your statement, you assumed that the fox player was on a high level.
if you do the same for sheik, you'd come up w/ the fact that no sheik (that's playing well) would continuously hit a space animal w/ something they could crouch cancel.
and I take it you've never been perfectly spaced f-air'd..
LOL
----------------------------
teczero - peach is a terrible character. I've come to the realization that unless you're ridiculously better, camping fox and sheik will **** her everytime T_T
but I'm still gonna keep a peach ready for teams and countering marth
-------------------------------
eggm - when you get a chance. please update the first page
VaNz (New York, NY)
Mains: Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, Sheik
Secondaries: Peach, Young Link, Fox
if you do the same for sheik, you'd come up w/ the fact that no sheik (that's playing well) would continuously hit a space animal w/ something they could crouch cancel.
and I take it you've never been perfectly spaced f-air'd..
LOL
----------------------------
teczero - peach is a terrible character. I've come to the realization that unless you're ridiculously better, camping fox and sheik will **** her everytime T_T
but I'm still gonna keep a peach ready for teams and countering marth
-------------------------------
eggm - when you get a chance. please update the first page
VaNz (New York, NY)
Mains: Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, Sheik
Secondaries: Peach, Young Link, Fox
teh_spamerer
Smash Master
Let's see...moves that you can hit me with that I can't CC until super high %s
fair
nair strong hit
back air
dsmash
uptilt LOL you have to be mad close for this
Yeah, I'm not worried at all about those very few moves. You can't just throw out uptilt or dsmash. You can techchase into dsmash, though spacies are hard to grab. Fox can DD grab fair and nair. He can also shoot lasers all day to force her to approach since she announces she's going to throw needles an hour before she does. Falco's lasers shut down all of the aeriels if he's shooting them properly, leaving only dsmash and uptilt as options. That is horrifyingly bad.
Fair = one move. Space animals get to use all of their moves against her and never get punished if they do them properly. Fair is also beaten by Falco's uptilt, probably Fox's uptilt(you can CC dtilt it anyways until higher percents unless they do the fair suuuuuper late) and definetely Fox's upsmash.
Eggm
Smash Hero
Fox doesn't **** sheik spammer lol. Its closer to even.
Magus420
Smash Master
They can tech the d-smash into the several hundreds of %, and it has enough lag that you won't be able to punish the tech either. If they eat that everytime that's just a flaw of them not knowing how to deal with it, not Sheik as a character.
teh_spamerer
Smash Master
Yes Magus, we know you can double stick tech Falcon punch at 321% with Jigglypuff.
Eggm
Smash Hero
You can down tech the down smash or DI the shines in a way that messes fox up either to close or too far or so you slide and grab the ledge, you can also up + b cancel your up + b so that fox can't cover both options. M2k can do it very well. I could go on but its pointless. Also its one combo get over yourself and come up with better arguments or get out of my thread thanks. xD
teh_spamerer
Smash Master
Eggm is gay . Fine, here's another one. If they don't CC your shine or smash DI the shine you can waveshine dtilt nair nair upsmash across FD at ~30. Of course, they can always CC your shine and eat like 15 of them across the stage if they want to. Alternatively, you can waveshine them to the ledge and fthrow them then throw your shield up. Most Sheik players will either drop down then double jump sweetspot, double jump fair, or double jump airdodge. The second two options get covered by shine out of shield, the first option puts Sheik on the ledge. Spaced back airs are hard to get past with Sheik unless she does a perfect waveland from the ledge and I haven't seen a single person including M2K never mess that up.
. Fine, here's another one. If they don't CC your shine or smash DI the shine you can waveshine dtilt nair nair upsmash across FD at ~30. Of course, they can always CC your shine and eat like 15 of them across the stage if they want to. Alternatively, you can waveshine them to the ledge and fthrow them then throw your shield up. Most Sheik players will either drop down then double jump sweetspot, double jump fair, or double jump airdodge. The second two options get covered by shine out of shield, the first option puts Sheik on the ledge. Spaced back airs are hard to get past with Sheik unless she does a perfect waveland from the ledge and I haven't seen a single person including M2K never mess that up. If the Sheik slides far enough to grab the ledge you did your dsmash one shine too late.Eggm said:
Magus420
Smash Master
wut?
Mew2King
King of the Mews
sheik is the best, then fox then marth then falco then peach/falcon then ICs/Jiggs then Doc then like.... idk ganon/dk or something. The top 3 or 4 are their own tier, next 4 is another tier, and so on, imo.
lol at this convo ... the better will win in the end ... RIGHT GUYS ... YEAAAAAAAa ^_- lmfaooooo ... m2k u suck for always picking sheik on my samus just cuz i said samus has a sexy nair u didn't have to sho me why sheiks has more priority >_>
teh_spamerer
Smash Master
Ugh, I worded that wrong. If they don't CC your shine and they don't smash DI it away waveshine dtilt nair nair upsmash combos. If they DO CC your shine and you're paying attention you can shine them again instead of dtilting and if they continually CC shines across the entire stage they get hit by a lot of them. There probably is a higher percent where it works if they don't smash DI double stick tech the dtilt it combos but I'd rather just waveshine dsmash at higher percents and expect them to not smash DI double stick tech the dsmash every time since barely anybody does that. If you really really want to go for 100% legit inescapable combos no matter how you smash DI or double stick tech you can always grab upthrow nair(since waveshining doesn't work if they smash DI) but since we're not discussing how to fight perfect robots other things work.wut?
Magus420
Smash Master
1. If they can CC between the shines they can shield.
2. Why would they be DIing the d-tilt towards you or at least not away to let you combo off of it after being shined->potentially waveshined at ~30%?
3. SDIing waveshines is easy.
4. You don't need to do anything remotely fancy to tech the d-smash. It's incredibly easy to do because it already sends at a low angle.
5. You talk about the Fox player reacting to whether a shine was CCed or not and following up accordingly, yet also talk about the Sheik player possibly being ******** enough to CC 15 shines in a row without once just shielding between which is about as amazing as Inui's waveshineable Fox.
2. Why would they be DIing the d-tilt towards you or at least not away to let you combo off of it after being shined->potentially waveshined at ~30%?
3. SDIing waveshines is easy.
4. You don't need to do anything remotely fancy to tech the d-smash. It's incredibly easy to do because it already sends at a low angle.
5. You talk about the Fox player reacting to whether a shine was CCed or not and following up accordingly, yet also talk about the Sheik player possibly being ******** enough to CC 15 shines in a row without once just shielding between which is about as amazing as Inui's waveshineable Fox.
teh_spamerer
Smash Master
I said it doesn't work if you CC, I already know this. I meant you can continue waveshining them.
2 hit combos that can be DIed out of
Sheik - ftilt fair
Marth - uptilt dair, fair fsmash, fair dair
Icies - jab grab
Do you see people get hit by these in matches? The answer is yes.
Cactuar - Multishining is easy.
And if, god forbid I decide I don't want to do the same thing 100% of the time and upsmash you, waveshine you off, fsmash, trying to tech a dsmash will always be the 100% most optimal thing to do?
LOOOOOL. Well I'm saying if they continually CC that's what happens and if they don't they get dtilted. That's it.Magus420 said:
Magus420
Smash Master
Sheik: F-Tilt (need to DI this) -> F-Air
Marth: U-Tilt (need to DI this) -> D-Air; F-Air (need to DI this) -> F-Smash; F-Air (need to DI this) -> D-Air
Icies: Jab (need to DI this) -> Grab
Fox: Shine -> D-Tilt (need to DI this) -> N-Air -> etc
Do you see the key difference between these? I would hope the answer is yes.
What good reason is there not to be DIing away after seeing yourself get shined at like 30%?
What's your point? Mine was that any idiot that can quickly rotate the analog away and do it reasonably close to the VERY predictable timing of waveshines can SDI it a good amount of the time.
Actually... yes. You can tech the d-smash and f-smash (until u-smash would be guaranteed to KO and be used anyway), DI the u-smash the best way possible, and not prevent grabbing the edge after getting shined (if you're not stunned when you reach it abviously), all by doing one thing.
teh_spamerer
Smash Master
Yeah but there is still dumb stuff like Marth's fair over and over again that people fall for. But fine, let's say you can't smash DI shine and that you DI away. If I dtilt every time you'll get away. But if I waveshine reverse uptilt you're holding the wrong way and you get comboed differently.
Mine was that any idiot can practice multishining for hours, become frame perfect and ****
. There are a lot of things that are "easy" to get away from in this game that people still get hit with. I waveshined Vidjo across the stage into upsmash. Cort getting drill waveshined across the stage into shinespike: http://youtube.com/watch?v=payLjoOp8rU1:04-1:10
PC getting uptilted 4x into spike because he missed the CC tech TWICE on Marth's uptilt and didn't DI it back: http://youtube.com/watch?v=KIYn3TtRr_w
4:41-4:47
These things happen in real matches. I waveshined tec0 across the stage into dsmash. Expecting everyone in the world to tech Fox's dsmash into the hundreds of percent is a little ridiculous.
EDIT: You can sweetspot with space animals' side b when Marth jabs to edgeguard you. I can't count how many times I've seen space animals including myself get hit with the jab. Fox's sweetspot isn't even hard to do at all.
wut? You're supposed to DI the upsmash away from Fox, if you're holding away you can get waveshined off or dsmashed into oblivion.
Magus420
Smash Master
Holding away + c-stick down is what covers all of those things.
Was Vidjo using Sheik and trying to SDI away from you the whole time when you did that? Does Tec0 know how to SDI effectively and to tech the d-smash? Again, just because you may be more familiar with waveshining->d-smashing Sheiks than they are at defending against it doesn't make Sheik a worse character because of it.
Don't talk about 'things that can happen in matches', when you are trying to prove that Sheik is pretty much dead after getting shined anytime after 40% or whatever.
Was Vidjo using Sheik and trying to SDI away from you the whole time when you did that? Does Tec0 know how to SDI effectively and to tech the d-smash? Again, just because you may be more familiar with waveshining->d-smashing Sheiks than they are at defending against it doesn't make Sheik a worse character because of it.
Don't talk about 'things that can happen in matches', when you are trying to prove that Sheik is pretty much dead after getting shined anytime after 40% or whatever.
pockyD
Smash Legend
eggm will you ever play starcraft with me [ ] yes [ ] no
teh_spamerer
Smash Master
Vidjo was using Peach. tec0 is a good Sheik. No, I'm going to guess that he doesn't know how to SDI shines on command and tech the dsmash.
Perhaps I should rephrase it. 99.9% of humans die when they are Sheik after 40% when they get shined by Fox.
Magus420
Smash Master
Yes, and like I said you can't use that to say that Sheik herself is a bad character. That's like if almost no Falco players were aware of SHLs and shine combos and only a few did... that doesn't mean Falco as a character is somehow worse because of it.