The True Arena - Kirby MU Discussion "Weeks" 10/11: Ness, Meta Knight, Lucario and Lucas

[Nu~]

@ Nu~ Just making sure before I "finalize" the week. Considering you mentioned overrating your ratio for the Pac-Man v. Kirby, is the ratio diffferent?

Anyways, for everybody, IT IS TIME!

REDISCUSSION POLL = http://strawpoll.me/5258634/

Top two will be rediscussed, and the results will be in by Thursday night. Happy voting!

Yeah, ratio is 60:40. I flubbed up

 

[SapphSabre777]

Yeah, ratio is 60:40. I flubbed up

OK then, I was juuuuuuust making sure, based on the language given. I'll see to it that the Pac-Man and Duck Hunt MU numbers are finalized soon after I finish some errands.

 

[revengeska]

Yeah I have to concur on the Pac-Man/Kirby matchup being 60-40 in Pac-Man's favor. I live in the land of Kirby(Minnesota) where two of the top 5 current PR members are Kirby mains, Triple R at #2 and Prince Kirby #5.

I've played both of them in tournament sets and they were closer than the skill gap might otherwise indicate. I played Triple R very close in game 1 before he downloaded me and beat me handily in game 2. Prince Kirby was similarly very close in game 1, so much so that he actually counterpicked me with Metaknight in game 2, he described the matchup as being very difficult. Kirby is pretty popular here comparatively but I usually win that matchup. I can go into greater detail if requested, but suffice it to say that I'm very confident with Pac-Man in this matchup and I won't typically play top PR players so close in other matchups.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Yeah I have to concur on the Pac-Man/Kirby matchup being 60-40 in Pac-Man's favor. I live in the land of Kirby(Minnesota) where two of the top 5 current PR members are Kirby mains, Triple R at #2 and Prince Kirby #5.

I've played both of them in tournament sets and they were closer than the skill gap might otherwise indicate. I played Triple R very close in game 1 before he downloaded me and beat me handily in game 2. Prince Kirby was similarly very close in game 1, so much so that he actually counterpicked me with Metaknight in game 2, he described the matchup as being very difficult. Kirby is pretty popular here comparatively but I usually win that matchup. I can go into greater detail if requested, but suffice it to say that I'm very confident with Pac-Man in this matchup and I won't typically play top PR players so close in other matchups.

Really? Kirbys popular in Minnesota? That's new. I'm the only one around where I live. Perhaps I'm just looking for something else.

Anyways, for those that don't know: re-discussion for and are open! Discuss!

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

Yeah I have to concur on the Pac-Man/Kirby matchup being 60-40 in Pac-Man's favor. I live in the land of Kirby(Minnesota) where two of the top 5 current PR members are Kirby mains, Triple R at #2 and Prince Kirby #5.

I've played both of them in tournament sets and they were closer than the skill gap might otherwise indicate. I played Triple R very close in game 1 before he downloaded me and beat me handily in game 2. Prince Kirby was similarly very close in game 1, so much so that he actually counterpicked me with Metaknight in game 2, he described the matchup as being very difficult. Kirby is pretty popular here comparatively but I usually win that matchup. I can go into greater detail if requested, but suffice it to say that I'm very confident with Pac-Man in this matchup and I won't typically play top PR players so close in other matchups.

I'd appreciate an explanation if you don't mind. I'm not sure you saying "I beat the two best Kirbys in Minnesota so this MU must be bad" is a reasonable justification for your ratio. Also taking into account that that state uses customs so...... yeah.

Edit: Even if they are the best Kirbys in Minnesota who's to say that they play Kirby optimally in the MU?

 

[revengeska]

Really? Kirbys popular in Minnesota? That's new. I'm the only one around where I live. Perhaps I'm just looking for something else.

Anyways, for those that don't know: re-discussion for and are open! Discuss!

I call it the Triple R effect. He's been well known and popular for such a long time that he's inspired imitators I think. Might also be a reason why our scene has the variety of characters that it does. You'll be much more willing to use lower tier characters when Ganondorf and Kirby top your PR as opposed to someone like Sheik.

I'd appreciate an explanation if you don't mind. I'm not sure you saying "I beat the two best Kirbys in Minnesota so this MU must be bad" is a reasonable justification for your ratio. Also taking into account that that state uses customs so...... yeah.

Edit: Even if they are the best Kirbys in Minnesota who's to say that they play Kirby optimally in the MU?

I just did a brief rundown on the Pac boards about it, I'll paste that with a few additions here:

Two things stick out: 1. Do NOT let him take bonus fruit, since a Kirby with bonus fruit is a scary Kirby, and 2. Be mindful of dair combos on the ground. Similarly, don't get grabbed. You may be better off avoiding neutral footsies altogether. You may not necessarily have a disadvantage vs Kirby in the neutral, but I guarantee that the upsides of winning it are much greater for Kirby than for Pac-Man. Play keep-away, utilize hydrant and lots of fruits, and look for openings to get your shots in the air.

While I think Kirby's aerials have more range/power, Pac's come out quicker and so with proper spacing and patience Pac should come out ahead here. Minnesota was a customs state but that is largely going away now.

 

[Noa.]

All right so I play against a Kirby pretty often in tournament. I've only played his Kirby in tournament however.

So this Matchup is in Ness's favor, either +1 or +2.

When Kirby jumps into the air to do an aerial Ness can usually stuff it with a fair. Fair is disjointed and you don't have any disjointed aerials. The best way for you to counter this is to short hop airdodge in and then nair. Or you can double Jump in and air dodge instead. Airdodging is really useful against Ness. Ness likes to short hop aerial quite a lot. You can jump in the air, airdodge our aerial and then hit us with nair or maybe Bair while we're in lag. Now Ness can just delay his aerial to hit you after you airdodge, but then in response you can just aerial immediately. Air dodging as an approach and mixing up the timing of your aerials is really useful against Ness. If you see the Ness player jumping around a lot then try airdodging in.

If you try to position yourself over us to land with a dair, we can full hop nair in reaction and our nair will hit you before the hitbox for your dair comes out. It might be possible that if you have an extra jump you can use it to bait out our full hop nair and then use your dair to punish. But I'm not positive if that'll work.

Good Nesses do not use Pk fire in neutral. It's a very laggy took and you can punish it on reaction just jump over it or shield it and punish. Good Nesses like to use Pk Fire to punish you or to catch your landing. If you try to land near ness within range of Pk Fire but too far away for a dash grab, there's a good chance ness will go for it. You should try baiting out Pk Fire and the jumping right before you land. The Pk Fire will miss and you can punish ness. Baiting ness into thinking he can catch your landing with a Pk Fire while you still have a jump is really useful.

If you do get hit by Pk Fire, I recommend trying to jump out of it. Typically floaty characters can jump out of it easily, and fast fallers can roll out of it easily.

You can edgeguard ness pretty well. If you knock him offstage without a double jump then he's probably dead. The difficulty is that it can be somewhat difficult to hit him out of his double jump. You just have to read how he'll return to stage. Ness can always make it back just with his double jump, and a good Ness will not use pkt2 to recovery unless he has to. When ness double jumps he's either going to go straight for the ledge or land on stage. If he's going for the ledge he might do a riding fair or nair to protect himself. If he double jumps onto stage he will for an air dodge to nair, or go to stage with a rising fair.

For the airdodges you just gotta bait them out. Try to combat his aerials by landing on top of him with dair. It is pretty difficult to knock Ness out of his double jump because the hitbox on Ness's aerials are so big. But if you can manage to do that then you can screw up his pkt2 pretty easily.

If he's doing pkt2 really close to the ledge, you wanna focus on hitting home before Pk Thunder hits his body. At that range even if you intercept it then he can still make it back so it's a worth of time to challenge it directly.

The first half of pkt2 is invincible. Ness can't get hurt at all. The second half of pkt2 is not invincible, and the hitbox on it is weaker and smaller. You can fight the second half of pkt2 with dair or stone.

There's a very good video of Triple R against a Ness player. Every time the Ness player was offstage he likely died.

Watch out for uairs and grabs from ness at KO percent.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Really? Kirbys popular in Minnesota? That's new. I'm the only one around where I live. Perhaps I'm just looking for something else.

Anyways, for those that don't know: re-discussion for and are open! Discuss!

A while ago I went to the MetaKnight boards looking for help on the matchup, there should still be an unofficial discussion of it there I think it was in social, i'll see if I can find anything on it.

 

[warionumbah2]

If any EU Kirby's wanna play to get a feel of the MU, PM me and we can arrange a match when we're available.

Don't wanna write stuff until i play someone here.

 

[RedNova]

Really? Kirbys popular in Minnesota? That's new. I'm the only one around where I live. Perhaps I'm just looking for something else.

Yeah, same here. Actually, my region has a variety of characters, and the Top 5 here don't even use top tiers. Mario/Pacman, Yoshi, Peach, and one that I swear mains the random button. I'm trying to take Kirby to the top!

Anyways, for those that don't know: re-discussion for and are open! Discuss!

Wow thats good for me, someone I know in the community mains Ness. I'm gonna see If I can have a match with him, so I can write this week

 

[Sp1nda]

OKAY GUYS I CAME BACK TO THIS THREAD, NEW AND IMPROVED WITH KNOWLEDGE ON CUSTOMS SO I'LL DO RYU/JIGGS

Kirby VS Ryu
(Ryu first, mostly because I know almost all his approaches and it makes the MU really easy for me.)

Pros
+Ryu is a heavy fastfaller, which is great combo food for Kirby
+Ryu can't get out of most combos, even with proper DI
+Ryu can't combo Kirby since he's so light
+Utilt is god in this MU
+Faster than Ryu
+Better aerials, better mobility
Cons
- Due to Kirby being so light, a hard read at around 60% can make you lose a stock.
- Watch out for the Shoryuken at kill percents, since it's one of the best ways for Ryu to force Kirby to get off of him.
- Difficult to gimp since he has two recoveries that don't put him in free fall
- Watch out for the cancelled focus punch, it's just like Diddy's peanut gun momentum shift thing
Copy Ability
Not worth it, don't take it. Hadouken is trash.
Customs
Jumping Inhale: Allows Kirby to get in on Ryu if he's
Upper Cutter: Kills off of F-Throw at around 100% in my experience,
Big Hammer: SWAG ON HIM BOIZ!!!
Stages
- Halberd has a low ceiling, and since Shoryuken is a great kill move, don't risk it.
- Delfino is a little bit better, but since Ryu's sheer power and knockback ruin Kirby, it isn't worth it.
All neutral stages are in Kirby's favor, since Kirby is so much better than Ryu in the neutral game.
- Smashville is small, so if you get smashed at kill percents it could end up costing you a life pretty early.
- Dreamland is more in Kirby's favor since it would be easier to gimp Ryu, but the higher platforms make combos a little bit harder
Comments
Really, Ryu doesn't do well against Kirby. Unless you get careless in this MU, you don't have to be very experienced to beat Ryu. Just go for the bread and butter Dair to Utilt, and combo him as long as possible. You can easily get Nair to Jab, Nair to Dtilt to Fair, the chaingrab, other various Fthrow mixups, etc. Don't think in your mind that you should get an easy win however, be wary of Ryu's options and your percentage.
Overall Score
Ryu isn't good, sorry. 60:40

Will post my opinion and experience on Jiggs later, have quite a few in NEOH so I have a tight grip on how it feels.

Before I put Jiggs I want to give a little taste of Ness and MK. There's a couple MK's in my area, one of which happens to be pretty damn good.
I've never really had a problem with Ness, not unless I get careless and walk into all of his setups. There are a couple guaranteed combos with Ness, but at mid to high percents you can DI away. Don't get caught in his Fair strings if he tries to go for them, don't get grabbed too much because Ness has such a cheap throw that can kill at 80%, don't walk into his PK fire, go for the usual combos etc. MU is still 50:50
Now MK players have the mindgames of fastfalling after each jump, so they can't get tricked by it. They have some of the same options and approaches, but the main killer is the Uair strings to Up B. That can kill at 70%. MK has a sword, so it takes priority over a lot of Kirby's moves. It's not too bad of a MU, but I struggle against MK. 45:55 since it isn't impossible, or toxic, just have to be more patient.

Alright this is my third post in a row but I'll cool down on this thread after this lmao
Kirby VS Jigglypuff

Pros
+ Better ground capabilities
+ Both have a lot of jumps, so Kirby can keep up with Jiggs
+ Jiggly death percent starts at 60% because she's even lighter than Kirby
+ More knockback than Jiggs
+ More range on tilts
+ Uair can punish/catch Jiggs if she's is above you
+ Dtilt if it trips Jiggs can lead to HARD punishes
Cons
- Jiggs has more aerial mobility
- Jiggs has better aerials unless she's above you
- Fair and Bair are really good and strong, so getting caught in this can be a potential loss of a stock
- Rest = Dead
- Pound can allow Jiggs to get in and get some good percentage up on you
- Hard to combo since she is so light and has so much mobility in the air
Copy Ability
DON'T
Customs
Upper Cutter, since it kills at about 100% for not light characters, it will definitely kill earlier against Jiggs.
(not much else because they don't work well against Jiggs)
Stages
Small stages would do much better against Jiggs, and it's been like that ever since Melee. Battlefield isn't a good option here since combos aren't gonna connect for very long, and Jiggs is one of THREE characters that can't get chaingrabbed.
Dreamland 64 Due to its small size
Smashville It's pretty small
Lylat Cruise is medium, but the platforms benefit Kirby due to his combo game. Knocking Jiggs onto the platforms can wrack up some serious percentages.
Comments
Jiggs hasn't ever really changed from each generation of smash, her defensive wall of pain and gimmicks are the same, but against Kirby it's slightly in his favor due to better ground kill moves. Despite all the cons I listed, these aren't too hard to deal with. Just keep your patience and be ready because it'll probably have to end up being a timeout. It's best to keep up with Jiggs in the air so you can punish her when she eventually has to land, get a combo or just tack on percent and get out of there, rinse and repeat. It's important to get back on the ground if Jiggs catches you with one of her aerials, so that she can't gimp you, and so you can get all your jumps back if you use some trying to get out of the walls of pain. Stay close but out of Jigglypuff's aerial range, because you're gonna be jumping around waiting to punish stuff a lot.
55:45 Kirby's favor, not by much, and with customs 60:40 because Upper Cutter is already amazing against others, it beats so many of Jiggs's options in this MU.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Tomorrow will mark the end of the and week, so make sure you get your votes in before then!

In terms of next week, I am conflicted with what to do. What do you guys think? Characters we haven't talked about or re-discussion?

 

[Wintermelon43]

IMO do Sheik and ZSS because you can never dicuss those matchups without controversey.

 

[MikeKirby]

@ MikeKirby or @kirbykid have any info to give on either character?
We could use a couple more.

I'm tight on time, at the moment but I feel Jiggs v Kirby is even. Rest kills us early but one miss and Jiggs dies. It's a super high risk with a super high reward that's a huge momentum shifter for either character. Jigglypuff will do a ton of short hop aerials and that's fine by me. I have a disjointed anti-air u-tilt and u-smash. Plus, if Kirby crouches it forces Jigglypuff to land or dip low to hit which is risky because we can powershield>grab. With the recent grab buff that's going to be a fairly decent punish considering we both KO each other early. Kirby just needs to stay grounded and under Jiggs in the MU. Don't get me wrong, though, the match is still even. Whoever grabs the moment first will usually win.

Jigg's B-air and F-air hurt.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Tomorrow will mark the end of the and week, so make sure you get your votes in before then!

In terms of next week, I am conflicted with what to do. What do you guys think? Characters we haven't talked about or re-discussion?

Lets keep doing characters we havent talked about, then next week maybe some re-discussions.
If I am allowed to vote on who I think it should be, 2 of these 3 characters should be gone over.
Lucas
Roy
Lucario

 

[SapphSabre777]

The week of JIggs and Ryu are in, and what we have in terms of MU are:

[50:50, 55:45]
[50:50, 60:40] ​

A lot of people voted on Jiggs, which was awesome. While we didn't have the same amount of ratios with Ryu, the discussion during the week helps immensely. Good job and thank you!

Anyways, next week's poll is right here: http://strawpoll.me/5337191

 

[Sp1nda]

I actually secondary Lucario, and I have no idea how to fight against Kirby. I would assume aura is pretty destructive, but copying the aura sphere is helpful for Kirby. Uhhh maybe don't get force palm grabbed, don't get hit by aura sphere, and be smart with approaches?
I'll test things out a bit, and see how it goes. If we end up discussing another character, I can practice and get a feel for the MU as well.

 

[Wintermelon43]

It goes up plus 10 for Ryu SERISUALY.

Jigglypuff makes sense though, i'd agree with that.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Time for the next week, but first, I must tie-break.

Well, there's a tie in the poll right at this moment, but I think that we should discuss this time a character that has more time in the meta, so I am tie-breaking and saying that the aura dog, , as well as , will be discussed! , oops I mean , as an "act of apology", WILL be one of the characters discussed in one of the upcoming weeks automatically, maybe even next week.

Seriously, us Kirby's think alike a bit too much. XD I digress, discussion!

 

[warionumbah2]

If any EU Kirby's wanna play to get a feel of the MU, PM me and we can arrange a match when we're available.

Don't wanna write stuff until i play someone here.

Yeah this pls. I still think its 60:40 in MKs favor or +1 but i can't do a proper write up since i haven't played the MU post patch, so any EU Kirby's that are up for some games are welcome.

@above post kirby dies below 20% from uair combos and gets 0 to death when mk has 120% rage. Being floaty is really bad against mk.

 

[Deez1]

..........

 

[Burgundy]

Hm..
I'm not too great at discussing MUs since I don't have tournament experience, but I can give some general tips on vs

For :
+ He's short, so it's fairly easy to avoid PK Fire and Zair, Lucas's main form of spacing/approaching
+ Low weight means that Lucas has a harder time with combos at high %
+You can interrupt PKT2 with Stone or Dair since it has basically 0 priority.
+ Multiple jumps means you shouldn't be gimped anytime soon.
- Obviously his low weight makes him die easily, which makes Lucas's Fair, Fsmash, Dsmash, and Uair dangerous moves.
- Kirby's recovery can be pretty predictable, so watch out for Bair and Dair when recovering low. Maybe try going high but that's pretty dangerous as well. Also watch out for Dsmash at the ledge.
- The Final Cutter spike is good, but Lucas's recovery is amazing, so he can recover from practically anywhere
Also, getting PK Freeze is not recommended, since Lucas can just absorb it for a ton of damage. You're better off with Inhale.

For :
+ His recovery is not as gimpable as , since PKT1 goes through opponents
+ If for some reason Kirby takes PK Freeze, you can absorb it with Magnet
+ Since Kirby's recovery has no invincibility, landing Bair and Dair is pretty easy
+ Kirby dies early to his stronger moves, like Fsmash and Uair
+ Like Ness, Lucas can PKT2 twice if he collides with a wall, like on Omega Gamer or Duck Hunt, further aiding his recovery.
- PKT2 has almost no priority, so Kirby can use Stone or even Dair to knock him out of it.
- It's difficult to hit the sweetspots of moves like Fair and Bair due to how small Kirby is.
- PK Fire and Zair are tough to hit, especially if Kirby is crouching.
- Kirby is pretty hard to gimp with Magnet and Zair.

These were just general little things, like I said, I haven't fought many good Kirby's as Lucas, and vice versa.
As for the MU Ratio, I think it would be slightly in Kirby's favor, maybe 55 : 45 or 60 : 40

 

[Sp1nda]

Kirby VS Lucas

Pros:
+Kirby is light so he won't get comboed by Lucas after ~20% with proper DI
+Kirby is small, so Lucas has to be pretty precise to hit you
+Our combo game works better than his.
+It's easier to kill Lucas because he is so light
+Edgeguarding him is OP because we have so many jumps and he only has one. Knocking away his jump is very important, however.
Cons:
-Lucas can kill us with several attacks at 90% - 100%, such as Dash Attack, Dsmash, Fair, Bair (Though its hard to get hit by)
-Lucas has more range in the air
-Lucas has more power and knockback than us
Copy Ability:
I'd say keep your inhale, since it will make it easy to gimp Lucas if you can catch his recovery and semi-Kirbicide. PK Freeze isn't worth it really lol.
Stages:
Avoid stages with low ceilings, such as;
Halberd
Town and City
And also avoid jank stages, such as;
Delfino
Castle Siege
May also want to avoid Smashville, since it's a bit small and can give Lucas an easy edgeguard.
Good stages include;
Dreamland 64
Final Destination
Battlefield
Duck Hunt
Lylat Cruise
Comments:
Don't try to crouch underneath his PK fire. I swear to God every time I play against a Lucas he manages to hit me with PK Fire a million times because I'm too stupid to jump/shield/spotdodge it. Anyway, you have to combo Lucas in a different way because he is lighter and smaller than other characters, it's sort of like Ness, except we have an advantage rather than an even playing field.
My final thoughts are 55:45 Kirby's favor.
I've never actually been beaten by a Lucas in tournament before, and I have a couple friends I play with that are fairly good with Lucas.

 

[Deez1]

..........

 

[Wintermelon43]

I'm not sure if I'm needed here yet. I'll just come back when you do it on Lucario v Kirby

We're doing it right now, go ahead and vote

 

[Deez1]

..........

 

[SapphSabre777]

My apologies for the late respose to the end of the week. I've had some personal issues going on, so I haven't had the chance to make the necessary changes. I should be able to make the last changes tomorrow, so for Ness and Meta Knight, vote now or forever hold your peace!

EDIT: I have been thinking for a bit now, and with how slow some MUs are...I've been thinking about an open discussion on all MUs as of late. Not quite sure how it would work, but how would you guys feel if this thread was open-discussion based, like in some of the boards?

 

[Shadow Keebey]

Hey guys, this is my first time making a real comment on this thread. I have discovered something that may or may not be of use against Falco. Say you copy his Blaster. If you land an attack and the Falco player fails to tech when they hit the ground, you can briefly lock Falco into his hitting the ground animation by hitting him with the blaster a couple of times. Unfortunately, I have no way to record this, so can someone please try it for themselves (so far it works on the 3DS, but I assume the Wii U wouldn't be different).

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Hey guys, this is my first time making a real comment on this thread. I have discovered something that may or may not be of use against Falco. Say you copy his Blaster. If you land an attack and the Falco player fails to tech when they hit the ground, you can briefly lock Falco into his hitting the ground animation by hitting him with the blaster a couple of times. Unfortunately, I have no way to record this, so can someone please try it for themselves (so far it works on the 3DS, but I assume the Wii U wouldn't be different).

This is known, and it's fun to do

 

[Shadow Keebey]

This is known, and it's fun to do

Well OK. Does that help in the matchup? I know it hasn't been discussed here yet, but surely we know if it's beneficial to us.

 

[Wintermelon43]

My apologies for the late respose to the end of the week. I've had some personal issues going on, so I haven't had the chance to make the necessary changes. I should be able to make the last changes tomorrow, so for Ness and Meta Knight, vote now or forever hold your peace!

EDIT: I have been thinking for a bit now, and with how slow some MUs are...I've been thinking about an open discussion on all MUs as of late. Not quite sure how it would work, but how would you guys feel if this thread was open-discussion based, like in some of the boards?

Defitenly

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Well OK. Does that help in the matchup? I know it hasn't been discussed here yet, but surely we know if it's beneficial to us.

It's useful, but won't work the higher level of play you get because it involves a missed tech.

 

[Shadow Keebey]

It's useful, but won't work the higher level of play you get because it involves a missed tech.

It does seem like a thing that could trip people up (figuratively) in a game with friends.

 

[Wasoodle]

Hey, I'll just give my thoughts on the Ness & MK matchup (If those are the discussions atm o.o')

Ness
Kirby struggles quite a lot against Ness. The main flaw in this matchup is how incredibly early Ness can KO Kirby and effectively wall him out. Ness has that stupidly powerful back air which can catch people off guard and can kill Kirby quite easily in an attempt to return back to stage. He also has that big head, known as his up air which can EASILY hit a kirby who likes to float around and zone in the air a lot, it can kill at quite low percentages if near the top blast zone. And we can't forget that infamous back throw which can kill at ridiculous percentages, especially on Kirby. Ness has ALL the tools necessary to effectively keep Kirby out, especially with creating a wall of fairs which can cover the majority of Kirby's aerial options. His nair can easily beat many of Kirby's aerials to get him off and knock Kirby back into an uncomfortable position. And correct me if I'm wrong but I think his downsmash can catch Kirby's final cutter if it goes over the ledge? There's really not much that Kirby can do against Ness, it's not even worth challenging his PKT2 unless you want to risk getting killed at like 10%. Kirby's down air is very high risk, high reward in this matchup, but Ness has the tools necessary to prevent Kirby to doing it. Overall I'd say it's 40:60.

MK
I don't have much to say about this due to my lack of Meta Knight experience but I want to call it even. Kirby has the ability to stop many of Meta Knight's approaches, but if MK does manage to get in, it's going to hurt. Kirby fortunately doesn't get combo'd that easily by up air strings, but can get KO'd from a shuttle loop if playing unsafe. Both characters have an arsenal to efficiently prevent the other character from setting up any combos, strings, and their shenanigans. But in the end it comes down to whichever player takes advantage of their character's tools more wisely.

 

[Deez1]

..........

 

[SapphSabre777]

This is an important announcement to those who are in here. The MU Thread will be heading into a different direction starting today: open-discussion threads per character like the Sheik mains and such.

I will be starting off by contacting @ Aunt Jemima to sticky the reference page, which I will be making once he is around. I will be gradually putting more and more of the character MU threads, perhaps bringing out all of them as fast as possible. In the mean time, I will be starting the process of the transitioning the MU threads.

Thank you for understanding, and we apologize for the inconvenience if a character is not available to talk about as soon as possible.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

hihi

try to limit the threads to one a week or the boards will be super cluttered

 

[Wintermelon43]

This is an important announcement to those who are in here. The MU Thread will be heading into a different direction starting today: open-discussion threads per character like the Sheik mains and such.

I will be starting off by contacting @ Aunt Jemima to sticky the reference page, which I will be making once he is around. I will be gradually putting more and more of the character MU threads, perhaps bringing out all of them as fast as possible. In the mean time, I will be starting the process of the transitioning the MU threads.

Thank you for understanding, and we apologize for the inconvenience if a character is not available to talk about as soon as possible.

Yay!!!!!!

 

[Phan7om]

It's useful, but won't work the higher level of play you get because it involves a missed tech.

You'll be surprised how many people actually miss techs at high level, and the opponent doesnt do anything about it because they dont react fast enough or assume they will tech.

Hey guys, this is my first time making a real comment on this thread. I have discovered something that may or may not be of use against Falco. Say you copy his Blaster. If you land an attack and the Falco player fails to tech when they hit the ground, you can briefly lock Falco into his hitting the ground animation by hitting him with the blaster a couple of times. Unfortunately, I have no way to record this, so can someone please try it for themselves (so far it works on the 3DS, but I assume the Wii U wouldn't be different).

Like he said, this is known. It works for Mario, Luigi, Link, Toon Link, Samus, Palutena, Falco, Pika, Lucario, Mewtwo, Doc, and Mii Gunner's copy abilities. It definitely helps with catching missed techs from a range; but its more of a personal tech flub thing than a matchup thing. Just know that you can lock them to punish, but dont base the matchup around it because they usually will tech.

 

[Sp1nda]

There's some MK's popping up in my area, and the more I play them, it seems like Kirby definitely has trouble against all of the early kills and amazing kill power from MK. Forward smash can kill RIDICULOUSLY early, alongside Up B, Fair/Bair, and the attack where he vanishes and pops up somewhere else. (Forgive me I don't know what it's called.)
I'd say MK has a slight advantage, since both can get damage up quickly with the Neutral B attack, and it's easier for Kirby to combo MK due to his weight.
I would say;
45:55
From my experience. Not too big of an issue if you play a little more defensively when you see MK trying to get in and kill you at mid-high percents.