The Terrible Tyrant of Dreamland-Dedede matchup discussion

[Kuro~]

Angel Ring is good in this matchup, Dedede has trouble dealing with it since he is so fat. Plus it can be a nice counter when Dedede tries to walk and powershield up to Pit. Just Angel Ring him and let him realize that he can't grab through it


To me this matchup is 55:45 Pit. Dedede has the chaingrab but he is just a little too big...

fun fact he can spotdodge the entire duration of our nair

nah but seriously i see this as 50:50. dedede is a (bit) harder to juggle on stage ,easy to hurt offstage, great dmg racking potential onstage, gets planked easy, kills earlier(much earlier with that damn utilt), gets camped, and has to deal with disjointed hitboxes and a frame 2 utilt

 

[Fizzle_Boy]

Angel Ring is good in this matchup, Dedede has trouble dealing with it since he is so fat. Plus it can be a nice counter when Dedede tries to walk and powershield up to Pit. Just Angel Ring him and let him realize that he can't grab through it

Can it push him away from the stage during Up-B because that would be extremely useful?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

it can but it's not really useful. however WOI has enough wind to matter.

and if you jump up and literally mirror his a$$ he is severely ****ed

 

[Kuro~]

it can but it's not really useful. however WOI has enough wind to matter.

and if you jump up and literally mirror his a$$ he is severely ****ed

i would like to see the above :o never seen aa mirror shields effectiveness on d3

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

well as ive stated im currently wii-less atm but ill post it once i get stuffz to do that wit unless you just wanna try it out urself. it looks really weird as he auto-matically appears where the anlge of his fall would be if he had hit the other direction. its chortle worthy to watch go down too XD

 

[Lenus Altair]

People probably say the same thing about Pit's arrows. "If only he didnt have those arrows. He would never rack damage on my (insert characer here)!"

Probably true lol.

Although I would hope a characters intended signature move would be key to their game (poor falcon haha). A chaingrab =/= intended. Not from Sakurai anyway .

 

[Nitrix]

Dedede is such a simple yet powerful character

But yea I'd agree on 50:50 to 55:45 Pit.

I really just want to post a picture....

fun fact he can spotdodge the entire duration of our nair

l:

 

[Krystedez]

It's a Terrible Tyrant if I ever saw one

DewDaDash

doodootrash LOL

DewDaWalk DewDaTalk
DonBeFool GoToSkool
DewDaWatch DewDaTouch
DewDaThrowDatThingYouHave
DewDaClaw DewDaBeg
DonBeShy DewDaLie
DewDaCry DewDaShout
DewDaDewit NeverDewIt!

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

OMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!!!!! i just about **** myself! that's so god damn hilarious

 

[Xcallion]

I think a short discussion regarding stage strikes, bans and counterpicks(for both sides) would be a nice touch to this topic.

 

[Xcallion]

So, no one has anything left to say on this subject? We should probably put the results of this discussion in the official MU thread then.

 

[Krystedez]

Ill try to post something later tomorrow about stages :/ Im pretty tired right now

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

wat r u talkin bout? this discussion has had only one DDDs input so far and im not satisfied with that. we can't base a mu on such little info (unless we want our mu thread lookin like the luigi boards, uncomplete and no motivation to finish it).

while we have to be careful on certain parts of the stage, delphino (as always with pit) is a great cp stage on DDD. he can't grab below him and NO MATTER WHAT ANY OTHER BOARD SAYS PIT HAS A TERRIFYING SHARKING GAME. with a bair that combos not just into itself but (when combined with wing landing if you are sharkin) smashes, grab, it combos into AR. not even talkin about sharkin with nair and uair as we all know that kicks ***. also if you wanna play hella safe just shoot arrows through the bottom of the stage at him.

another good cp we got on ddd is lylat. the slanting of the stage can extend the percent of the cg on him for a throw or two not to mention it is pretty easy to get a gimp on ddd here compared to other stages.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

I wouldn't know what to strike against d3 so i would say normal strikes/bans like brinstar and stages we can't woi under.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

actually it is just the usually bans with pit because at places like pk sta 1 we can't go under them AND he has infinites there. although idk y u would wanna ban brinstar. pit kicks *** at brinstar

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Are you saying that you think brinstar is a good cp for Pit?

 

[Xcallion]

if Brinstar is legal, it's a good CP on almost anyone, except for MK who destroys on that level even more than we do.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

the only people who i don't mess with at brinstar are wario, weegee, and mk. aside from them (and possibly dk do to the fact his killing power there is uber pwn) pit ***** there. but only if u abuse the fact hitoboxes are magnified when they hit the bubbles and the fleshy lookin ledge connectors. also pit can fire arrow from behind the one on the right side as his bow draw animation puts the arrow past the flesh. thus pit outcamps anyone there. also as i was saying hitboxes are magnified by the stuff and so pit's already high priority multi-hit moves (my fav to abuse is jab infinite and fsmash) are now bigger and more deadly and such. also there are plenty of slanted areas where you can do the dtilt glitch and **** (for those who don't know this on stages like lylat, YI brawl, brinstar, etc if pit does his dtilt his animation is angled upwards and thus dtilts hitbox is changed. it makes it longer and hit up and in front of him as well. it really is **** as you can safely spam it and arrow and it shuts down lots of options as the sheer range + priority is practically broken)

 

[Xcallion]

the only people who i don't mess with at brinstar are wario, weegee, and mk. aside from them (and possibly dk do to the fact his killing power there is uber pwn) pit ***** there. but only if u abuse the fact hitoboxes are magnified when they hit the bubbles and the fleshy lookin ledge connectors. also pit can fire arrow from behind the one on the right side as his bow draw animation puts the arrow past the flesh. thus pit outcamps anyone there. also as i was saying hitboxes are magnified by the stuff and so pit's already high priority multi-hit moves (my fav to abuse is jab infinite and fsmash) are now bigger and more deadly and such. also there are plenty of slanted areas where you can do the dtilt glitch and **** (for those who don't know this on stages like lylat, YI brawl, brinstar, etc if pit does his dtilt his animation is angled upwards and thus dtilts hitbox is changed. it makes it longer and hit up and in front of him as well. it really is **** as you can safely spam it and arrow and it shuts down lots of options as the sheer range + priority is practically broken)

I never knew that part about the bow draw animations allowing you to camp behind the ledge connector.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

most people don't. it always makes falco's that cp me to brinstar be like "seriously? my good old flationed flack-oh's ability to outcamp anyone is compromised here!?" then they always say that they were counting on me not knowing the stage afterwords....LOLOLOOLLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Krystedez]

Now for another update in rhyme time on the dime. Brought from me to you.

Red = Bad. Very bad. Ban if you can/must.
SandyOrange = Ew. Don't go here. Try to strike these during game 1. Ban them if you think they're really good at it.
YellowGreen = Good. Go here for counter picks, but only ones you feel most comfortable with/they feel least comfortable with.
DarkOrchid = Could be bad/good, depending on the player. I don't know these personally. Thoughts are welcome.

FINAL DESTINATION, it's a game 1 donation!
BATTLEFIELD, His power's revealed...
SMASHVILLE, left to skill!
YOSHI's ISLAND, it's D3's diamond!
POKEMON STADIUM 1, Pit won't have a whole lot of fun...
LYLAT CRUISE, No !@#$, he'll lose.
PICTOCHAT, with ease, burn fat!
RAINBOW CRUISE, It's gay, old news.
FRIGATE ORPHEON, don't pick without reason
BRINSTAR, send him far.
DELFINO PLAZA, Pit's da sharking masta'!
NORFAIR, It's a dare.
BATTLESHIP HALBERD, Keeping up with kills? OBSURD!
POKEMON STADIUM 2, It might be real good or bad, eeeww~
CASTLE SIEGE, your win, my liege...
GREEN GREENS, just demeans...

Ok now for serious wriite up mode.

Castle Siege is stupid risky to go to because of walk-off potential and the transitions all favoring D3 except for the lava one, which even that is hard to fight on.
Green Greens is dumb because of walls and ******** randomness that Pit doesn't benefit from.

BF is just really silly to fight on because even if you do camp the platforms he can hit you with u-tilt, and if you fly around his head, that doesn't get you anywhere. Arrows' looping potential is gone somewhat, and D3's range really excels here.

FD is good because you can camp the crap out of him.
Smashville can go either way, but I wanna say it's Pit's favor.
Lylat is stupid for D3 because of recovery. Also, platforms kinda help us to mess him up, and blast lines are variable, so we might get an early kill.
I agree with others about Delfino obviously, even if there is a walk off, it's not too hard to avoid.
Same thing with Brinstar.
I REALLY like Pictochat, gives us even more potential for kills, and its sorta like a funner final destination.

That's my short write ups for now.

 

[Abel1994]

D3 sucks...

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

abel i smack my head at this. d3 is great especially if you know how to use him proper. **** i almost took him up as a second as he his marth and snake's only bad mu beside mk. he also owns a lot of other people that pit as a char actually has a problem with (not sayin we have a lot of probs with marth or snake, im saying d3 is good against them and chars like g&w, wario, not sure bout oli but like i said im sure that mu is bad cause no one knows it.) however i do agree he sucks in the fact the he is ********. good god why the hell is DDD so damn good in this game!? he is a stupid *** penguin and he is a fatty to boot. i mean what kinda fatty is that good!?!?!? (actually when you think about it d3 is the reason DK isn't b tier. it's funny as he is a fatty and yet he makes the other fatties lower in tier. god all these damn fatties....lol)

 

[Xcallion]

abel i smack my head at this. d3 is great especially if you know how to use him proper. **** i almost took him up as a second as he his marth and snake's only bad mu beside mk. he also owns a lot of other people that pit as a char actually has a problem with (not sayin we have a lot of probs with marth or snake, im saying d3 is good against them and chars like g&w, wario, not sure bout oli but like i said im sure that mu is bad cause no one knows it.) however i do agree he sucks in the fact the he is ********. good god why the hell is DDD so damn good in this game!? he is a stupid *** penguin and he is a fatty to boot. i mean what kinda fatty is that good!?!?!? (actually when you think about it d3 is the reason DK isn't b tier. it's funny as he is a fatty and yet he makes the other fatties lower in tier. god all these damn fatties....lol)

So are you saying that D3 would be a good secondary for a pit main?

 

[Nitrix]

D3 wouldn't be a good secondary. Pit's worst matchup is MK by far, and D3 doesn't do very well against him...

Personally I go Diddy which covers MK and G&W

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

I'm going pika for mk, but picking up diddy for gaw since gaw counters pika as well lol.

 

[Lenus Altair]

I've started playing snake a little for counters. He covers the match ups I care about mostly.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

actuallu that was back in my marth only days. bot not as a pit main. im just sayin dont trah d3 as he does kieck ***

 

[Lenus Altair]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12175847&postcount=11947

Hurray for just asking directly

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

lenus.... ur a boss!!! good call on asking coney. ATTENTION PEEPS! oh lenus is a boss!!!


edit: knowledge is power, and mine b limited

 

[Krystedez]

I still think it's a positive matchup for Pit.

The only time stages "drastically change" anything is when it's a stage that D3 loves like Castle Siege, which even then we can simply ban those types of stages that we can't deal with either on a character to character level or personally. The most THAT will change is to even.

I really think personally that Pit has a solid advantage in this matchup (60-40), but I can see 55-45 because though we do well on polarized stages like FD and Picto so does he.

TL;DR - - I'm definitely abhorrent that the MU is even, period. Pit should have the slight adv at the very least, if not more, and not just because we pick stages we're good on (but it helps)

EDIT: I just realized, this is like my first time clearly stating what my ratio is, so sorry for the late handling on that. For me, it's 60-40 or 55-45 Pit's favor. Don't get it twisted, I'm not completely against discussion, but I just don't see how we should under rate ourselves and all agree suddenly because coney and one other D3 think it's even or their favor. I mean, come on, taking care of this MU with ease is one reason I doubled on Pit.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

well i already said back in the beginning of the discussion that count (from norcal) and i only played on smashville. so that and it's still a newer matchup to me. however dez i totally c ur point and i can't stress enough that my experiance in this mu is severely limited which is why i keep sayin we need more input from those with experiance (like urself). it could very well be 60:40 us, but like with any mu that is only true if you know how to play it. i think im actually done postin on this topic cause my knowledge of this mu is too limited. which is sad because the other norcal ddds switched to other mains right when i switched to pit so i still actually do better marth vs. ddd than pit. in time i will learn this mu and THEN i will give my knowledgeable opinion of pit vs. ddd.





but i still think lenus is boss.

 

[Kuro~]

I think its 55:45 just cuz of how good ddd can rack up dmg, kill with utilt, how good his AD/SD is, chaingrabs, and weight. Other than that he has nothing on us he doesnt have on most characters.

 

[dskank]

D3 sucks...

>:/ u suck

d3 is so good, he's my new co-main

and d3 isnt a bad alt 4 pit, the only mu he doesnt cover is mk

this match is probably about even, we might have it by a little, ddd can punish us harder than we do him, our cg is nasty on him

 

[Kuro~]

Bump.

What do u guys think? You think this is ready for a write-up? Or too little input?

 

[Xcallion]

looks good to me

 

[Nitrix]

http://vgbootcamp.com/entry.php?7-Metagame-Minute-King-DeDeDe-s-Broken-Spot-Dodge

 

[Kuro~]

That's old news apparently. I didnt know the reason his was so good was cuz the z-axis property. But we have plenty of stuff that cover his spotdodge.

This explains why it dodges our entire nair.

K if you guys honestly are ok with like only 1 d3's input then ill do the write up. Post your numbers here w/o any explanation and ill think about which is most probable/apparent.

 

[Xcallion]

60-40




.

 

[Kuro~]

60-40




.

60/40 who? o.0