The Sassy Princess of Sarasaland: Daisy for SSB4 (A New Daisy for Smash Thread Opens See Pg. 197)

[memoryman3]

OH. MY. GOD! That could mean Daisy really DOES exist in the main games! (If that's so, then the only thing that got against her inclusion the recent main games was just a pure "forgot she exist" reason given by the Mario devs!)

It doesn't really work like that. In the series, gameplay comes first before characters and canon. But the development team decides which characters are playable. Peach (and Daisy) never made it as playable in NSMB because of dress physics. Then again, Daisy never made it into ANY Year of Luigi games. Luigi even has to save Peach in NSLU.

 

[HanAmes]

Countering Daisy's issues huh?

"She's so filler"

If Daisy is 'filler,' then why can't we call Rosalina 'filler' as well? I mean, besides Super Mario Galaxy, she seems pretty filler to me as well.

The way I see it:

Mario=Protagonist
Luigi=Sidekick
Peach=Dammy
Bowser=Antagonist
Bowser Jr (or the Koopalings)=Secondary antagonist (since they're used in more games, lately)

And where does Rosalina come in? In Mario 3D World, you can actually beat the game without her, but in SMG, she helps Mario on his quest to save his "Special One." So please, indulge me on why Rosalina isn't 'filler' and Daisy is...

I apologize for always bringing Rosie up, but on my side of the arguments, it's always the Rosalina fans putting down Daisy, but don't get me wrong, Rosalina is actually my second favorite Mario gal out of the three.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Hey, any good news in the least bit? (not expecting anything big or grand this stuff takes time after all)

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Hey, any good news in the least bit? (not expecting anything big or grand this stuff takes time after all)

Nothing, been busy editing a script for Operation Tachibana. Has little to with Daisy, but been trying to help this guy start a new way of making Famicom Tantei Club more know in the st.

Other than that, this thread is having a bit of canon talk and finding ways of defeating certain counterarguments against Daisy. You know, things like the "clone arguments" and "filler" agenda that some people has.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Countering Daisy's issues huh?


"Daisy only appears in spin-offs. Rosalina appeared in a main game. Thus she is a main Mario character and relevant"
While Daisy has not appeared in many main Mario games, this doesn't mean she's not a main Mario character.
She appeared in almost every spin-off ever. And when counting these, appearing in most of them is pretty major in and of itself.
The Mario spin-offs will always continue time and time again, and they will all have Daisy in the roster.

Not only does she appear in most of the spin-offs, she also appears in one of the first, making her have senority while being relevant.

Also, there's no official rule that says the spin-offs are inferior to the least major main games.
That's just a fan-rule.

Fact is, Daisy appears more than the rest of the potential candidates, from 90's to now, and has no reason to stop doing that.

Btw, this character probably appeared in more games than your whole top 5 appeared together.
Even King K. Rool dwarfs in comparison to the Flower Princess.

"Daisy has no moveset potential/no clear archetype/is a Peach-clone. Rosalina had spacey stuff and Lumas to work with."
Just like Rosalina was just a Space Peach, amirite

Daisy has a lot of moveset potential for the previous answer given.
Most spin-offs involve special moves and catergories (All-Round, Speed etc.)
Thus we have a very good sense of Daisy's potential and archetype when looking at these.
Looking at it, it seems Daisy has an affinity for Flowers and is a speedy and technical character.

Now there's something important to say here:
The moveset is not made by solely taping together the individual special moves.

There are creative liberties to take when making these.
While a basketball dunk is the only recovery move that is a spin-off move, a better fit would be a Petal Tornado or a Flower Glider (Mario Kart 8 or Super Mario Galaxy 2)

Another example is a garden special that, while appearing in Mario Power Tennis, could house different plant-like enemies to damage enemies, or could release pollen, petals and other plant-stuff to hurt the opponent.

Last, but not least, there are a lot of Mario plantpowers that Daisy could use.
There are dozens of flowers that give actual powers, like Fire Flower.
A lot of plant-like enemies, like Nippers.
And there are a lot of flower-based hazards that could be planted over to Daisy's movekit. (Piranha Vines, Petey Piranha)

See, there's a lot to do with both real-life plant physics (pollen, petals) , Mario's many plant enemies (Piranha Plant, Nipper) and Mario's flower powers (Fire Flower, Flower Glider)

"No new Mario character, it's impossible. Rosalina and the Big Bowser's Kid are enough. Daisy's unneeded."
Just as unneeded as having Bowser Jr. AND Rosalina in the base game, right?
The Mario series sell extremely high, being the most selling franchise from Nintendo.

DLC needs to sell on his own, and what's a better solution than selling a Mario character?

As for "reps", Sakurai added two completely unique Mario characters in the base game already.
No stopping him from adding the third.

"She's so filler"
Um, yeah, that's why Daisy appears even on a roster of 10.
She might be filler, but she's a pretty good one as she fills the Mario Spin-Off roster every single time.

BTW, This is a non-argument, everybody could be said to be filler as every character is made to fill a specific role.

Heck, even Mario is a filler character made to fill-in the lack of Popeye in the original.

Ex.
"Um yeah King K. Rool is so filler they just needed a villain"
"Mario is so filler they just needed a jumpguy after popeye didn't do it"
"Luigi so filler, he's only player two"
"Ridley so filler, they just needed more bosses"

"Daisy has no personality, I, Rosalina, am at least always super sad with echoes."
Being always happy and girly and rainbows (Peach), is as much as a personality as a loud and dense tomboy (Daisy)

I get you. But we must try to make our point to others without bashing or offending other fanbases, otherwise instead of mending the situation we'll just make it worse.

BTW when I learned of Rosalina's back story it was not tragic and sad for me. Back when I learned of her background I was, and still am a Fire Emblem fan, seeing that in that series things like death, tragic and sad background are something common, her character did not really appealed that much to me, and even less that she turning into a Peach like character.

EDIT: Can somebody shed some light on why a decent amount of fans ship Wally x Rosalina? I never did quite understand.(Wally is how my brothers and I sometimes call Waluigi.)

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

EDIT: Can somebody shed some light on why a decent amount of fans ship Wally x Rosalina? I never did quite understand.(Wally is how my brothers and I sometimes call Waluigi.)

Think about it: What other tall and mysterious man would Rosie be paired with? It's mostly because a majority of the main non-villainous Mario characters already have a proper person to be shipped with other than him. Mario has Peach because plot, Luigi had Daisy because opposites attract, Wario had Mona because "Why not?", DK and Candy are pretty much canon, the same is said for Diddy x Dixie, and Yoshi had Birdo since both are technically "asexual" reptiles. Waluigi is more popular with Rosalina since the idea of him being paired with Daisy isn't that popular despite it being implied and fans feel that they match in terms of their "hidden" backgrounds.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Think about it: What other tall and mysterious man would Rosie be paired with? It's mostly because a majority of the main non-villainous Mario characters already have a proper person to be shipped with other than him. Mario has Peach because plot, Luigi had Daisy because opposites attract, Wario had Mona because "Why not?", DK and Candy are pretty much canon, the same is said for Diddy x Dixie, and Yoshi had Birdo since both are technically "asexual" reptiles. Waluigi is more popular with Rosalina since the idea of him being paired with Daisy isn't that popular despite it being implied and fans feel that they match in terms of their "hidden" backgrounds.

Except the fact that Wally x Daisy is one sided in Waluigi's side, seeing everything that is implied between all the spin-offs it hints that Daisy does not like Wally at all.(an example being Super Sluggers, chemistry between these two: Bad. And in Luigi's case in this game, the only character aside from Mario whom he has good chemistry is Daisy.)

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Except the fact that Wally x Daisy is one sided in Waluigi's side, seeing everything that is implied between all the spin-offs it hints that Daisy does not like Wally at all.(an example being Super Sluggers, chemistry between these two: Bad. And in Luigi's case in this game, the only character aside from Mario whom he has good chemistry is Daisy.)

Indeed, the same could be said for Wario x Mona since he cares about nothing but money and not a single woman. Sure he enjoyed/hated his kiss from Shokora (depending on which form on how WL4 was completed), but it was one time deal and him tossing Merelda away for the money bag in Shake It! establishes this character. Though that still doesn't stop him from being paired with her since she does find him "cool" throughout the series and she's technically underaged in comparison to him. And now you are probably disturbed by the idea that the WarioWare fans are promoting a possible ephebiphiliac relationship.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I get you. But we must try to make our point to others without bashing or offending other fanbases, otherwise instead of mending the situation we'll just make it worse.

BTW when I learned of Rosalina's back story it was not tragic and sad for me. Back when I learned of her background I was, and still am a Fire Emblem fan, seeing that in that series things like death, tragic and sad background are something common, her character did not really appealed that much to me, and even less that she turning into a Peach like character.

EDIT: Can somebody shed some light on why a decent amount of fans ship Wally x Rosalina? I never did quite understand.(Wally is how my brothers and I sometimes call Waluigi.)

It was actually a bit of a funny way to adress Daisy's "issues" and by no means a stab to the Rosalina fanbase.
(Although I can't hurt to beat the dead high horse they're on)

 

[Zapster]

F*** the police, I vote for Micaiah from Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn!

But actually yeah... I think that would be great that DK Series get another Character and a Assist Trophy

Micaiah was so cool! I was really hoping it was her and not Ike (if they had to choose) back during Brawl times...

And go Dasiy. It's funny Nintendo "forgot" about her. How do they forget about her but not some random aasss toad?? I was surprised and did not buy new super Mario bros (though it was fun) it didn't have the girls. Borderline --Dare I say it??--- SEXIST

 

[memoryman3]

Except the fact that Wally x Daisy is one sided in Waluigi's side, seeing everything that is implied between all the spin-offs it hints that Daisy does not like Wally at all.(an example being Super Sluggers, chemistry between these two: Bad. And in Luigi's case in this game, the only character aside from Mario whom he has good chemistry is Daisy.)

In Mario Kart 8 GP, Luigi's "rivals" are Mario and Daisy (third is random) and Daisy's "rivals" are Peach and..........Waluigi. Curse Waluigi and his sniper green shells and bananas!

 

[Extremmefan]

Guys! I've just gotten an idea:
"Rosalina's so filler, they just needed a plot twist!"
(I've gotten that idea after reading some of my favorite sprite comics all over again, and I noticed the whole "plot twist" thing).

Indeed, the same could be said for Wario x Mona since he cares about nothing but money and not a single woman. Sure he enjoyed/hated his kiss from Shokora (depending on which form on how WL4 was completed), but it was one time deal and him tossing Merelda away for the money bag in Shake It! establishes this character. Though that still doesn't stop him from being paired with her since she does find him "cool" throughout the series and she's technically underaged in comparison to him. And now you are probably disturbed by the idea that the WarioWare fans are promoting a possible ephebiphiliac relationship.

Kat: What's "ephebiphiliac"?
9-Volt: *Pulls out a Wikipedia page out of nowhere*
Kat:

Also, about damn time somebody mentioned Merelda! (Actually, if you think about it... aren't Merelda's and Shokora's pasts not explained either? ... Dear god, the Mario series and sub-series are full of plot holes!)

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Guys! I've just gotten an idea:
"Rosalina's so filler, they just needed a plot twist!"
(I've gotten that idea after reading some of my favorite sprite comics all over again, and I noticed the whole "plot twist" thing).



Kat: What's "ephebiphiliac"?
9-Volt: *Pulls out a Wikipedia page out of nowhere*
Kat:

Also, about damn time somebody mentioned Merelda! (Actually, if you think about it... aren't Merelda's and Shokora's pasts not explained either? ... Dear god, the Mario series and sub-series are full of plot holes!)

Again let's not use these kind of arguments because we'll be angering not only Rosalina fans but also other fanbases and all our hard work to gain supporters will be for nothing.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

In Mario Lart 8 GP, Luigi's "rivals" are Mario and Daisy (third is random) and Daisy's "rivals" are Peach and..........Waluigi. Curse Waluigi and his sniper green shells and bananas!

This is Nintendo we are talking about, sometimes they mean one thing then another, Wally is not even mentioned in any of Daisy's trophies in Smash and as you know Luigi is, hinting their relationship.(I know you hate this pairing, but just to give you a reminder.)

 

[Extremmefan]

Again let's not use these kind of arguments because we'll be angering not only Rosalina fans but also other fanbases and all our hard work to gain supporters will be for nothing.

Actually, this is a counter-argument to people who says "Rosalina is already in, so we don't need that Daisy filler character!".
The whole counter-argument is "Every character is a filler character. Rosalina too. She's also a filler character, because they just needed a plot twist.".

 

[memoryman3]

Actually, this is a counter-argument to people who says "Rosalina is already in, so we don't need that Daisy filler character!".
The whole counter-argument is "Every character is a filler character. Rosalina too. She's also a filler character, because they just needed a plot twist.".

Also I noticed another thing when I try (and fail horribly) to win all the character stamps in Mario Kart 8. Only the initial 12 characters in the E3 trailer have predetermined rivals like in Mario Kart 7. The others, like Shy Guy, Rosalina and the Koopalings have random rivals like in VS Race.

 

[Burruni]

Just curious to ask, how upset or content would you Daisy supporters be if she was an available as Smash 4 DLC alternate costume with an actual voice, model, and particle difference to her? tier treatment.

I know every person strives for their supportees to get the full value as a fighter but I want to know how much of a disservice you'd feel it be.

Edit: The half-costume thing that's in the game is total BS btw. Daisy should've been done as an alt before Dark Pit.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Just curious to ask, how upset or content would you Daisy supporters be if she was an available as Smash 4 DLC alternate costume with an actual voice, model, and particle difference to her? tier treatment.

I know every person strives for their supportees to get the full value as a fighter but I want to know how much of a disservice you'd feel it be.

The disservice here is the orange palette obviously alluding to Daisy but Peach not getting an actual Daisy-swap.
The Alph-Tier treatment would be justice (but no complete victory)

 

[Troykv]

Micaiah was so cool! I was really hoping it was her and not Ike (if they had to choose) back during Brawl times...

And go Dasiy. It's funny Nintendo "forgot" about her. How do they forget about her but not some random aasss toad?? I was surprised and did not buy new super Mario bros (though it was fun) it didn't have the girls. Borderline --Dare I say it??--- SEXIST

She arrived to late 3: (In the Brawl's original released date: 2007)

And... Dress physics?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Just curious to ask, how upset or content would you Daisy supporters be if she was an available as Smash 4 DLC alternate costume with an actual voice, model, and particle difference to her? tier treatment.

I know every person strives for their supportees to get the full value as a fighter but I want to know how much of a disservice you'd feel it be.

Edit: The half-costume thing that's in the game is total BS btw. Daisy should've been done as an alt before Dark Pit.

To be fair, this is something that Sakurai should have done to begin with. I wouldn't even be mad if he even thought about making her a downloadable Alph outfit since it would be a great way of confirming that Mii Fighters won't be the only ones with costumes. I was even banking on the idea soon as the ESRB Leak implied that Bowser Jr. would get a surplus of "special outfits" based on the Koopalings with their own voices.

And... Dress physics?

If Peach didn't make it it for that reason, then the same could be said for Daisy as well. Plus Wario needed a special farting program in order to properly work in the game (Damn you, Sakurai for making his "crude humor" so iconic).

 

[UcheD914]

Princess Daisy already has my vote.

 

[memoryman3]

Just curious to ask, how upset or content would you Daisy supporters be if she was an available as Smash 4 DLC alternate costume with an actual voice, model, and particle difference to her? tier treatment.

I know every person strives for their supportees to get the full value as a fighter but I want to know how much of a disservice you'd feel it be.

Edit: The half-costume thing that's in the game is total BS btw. Daisy should've been done as an alt before Dark Pit.

I still don't know why after all these years, Dark Pit, Lucina, Alph, the Koopalings, Dr. Mario and DARK PIT, got the full alt treatment, while Dark Samus, Dixie Kong, and Daisy are still swaps. Peach's clear movie and baseball unlock challenge pic makes the colour look like a replacement.

If anything, the alt would be JUSTICE! And Justice demands retribution

Plus customs.

EDIT: The Dark Samus swap makes sense in a way.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Just curious to ask, how upset or content would you Daisy supporters be if she was an available as Smash 4 DLC alternate costume with an actual voice, model, and particle difference to her? tier treatment.

I know every person strives for their supportees to get the full value as a fighter but I want to know how much of a disservice you'd feel it be.

Edit: The half-costume thing that's in the game is total BS btw. Daisy should've been done as an alt before Dark Pit.

Would be satisfied almost completely. But do you guys think Sakurai wil at least this much with enough demand?

 

[Zapster]

She arrived to late 3: (In the Brawl's original released date: 2007)

And... Dress physics?

"Well we were going to include playable female characters... Then their dresses got in the way"

 

[Troykv]

"Well we were going to include playable female characters... Then their dresses got in the way"

Hahahahaha xD

Well... Do you expect from Female Newcomers in the Ballot?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

"Well we were going to include playable female characters... Then their dresses got in the way"

Lip deconfirmed due to extremely short skirt and loli appeal.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Aaand Michaellol is going at it once again, though it seems now they hate Daisy somewhat less and putting the blame on him.

A couple of questions if its not too much too ask:
1: Have there been attempts in the past to get Daisy back in the main series? Because requests for that went from non-existing to sky-high as soon as the Ballot started.
(guess just that, my bad)

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Aaand Michaellol is going at it once again, though it seems now they hate Daisy somewhat less and putting the blame on him.

A couple of questions if its not too much too ask:
1: Have there been attempts in the past to get Daisy back in the main series? Because requests for that went from non-existing to sky-high as soon as the Ballot started.
(guess just that, my bad)

Not really from all the beta material I've seen (except for possibly being a placeholder in the early stages of Luigi's Mansion), there's been little to no attempt of having her in the main games. Characters like Wario and Peach had been considered for certain titles while guys like Daisy or Waluigi had no luck in having such thoughts about their usage in them. Before anyone mentions Super Mario 3D World, that was simply a fan edit by Micheallol in an attempt to trick people into thinking that's the case.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Not really from all the beta material I've seen (except for possibly being a placeholder in the early stages of Luigi's Mansion), there's been little to no attempt of having her in the main games. Characters like Wario and Peach had been considered for certain titles while guys like Daisy or Waluigi had no luck in having such thoughts about their usage in them. Before anyone mentions Super Mario 3D World, that was simply a fan edit by Micheallol in an attempt to trick people into thinking that's the case.

As in fan-demand I mean, has she been demanded by fans as heavily as now? (this is the first time I see so much demand of her)

Also I think the Japanese fanbase's anger is nowhere near calming down, I don't know what they are doing to gain support but it must be something big if they are as thicked as you told me they were.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

As in fan-demand I mean, has she been demanded by fans as heavily as now? (this is the first time I see so much demand of her)

Also I think the Japanese fanbase's anger is nowhere near calming down, I don't know what they are doing to gain support but it must be something big if they are as thicked as you told me they were.

My bad, I've fully misunderstanded you on that part and thought you meant the developers considering her for future games. This is what happens when you're typing a fan fiction chapter at midnight.

Fan demand in general for her was pretty minimal at times, even during the pre-Brawl days since people were sure that we would get characters like Waluigi (pre-AT reveal) and Bowser Jr. After the game's launch launch however, not many gravitated towards her after Waluigi's deconfirmation because still there as "that pallet swap" and there was hope that she would be an AT in the future. The announcement of the ballot and Rosalina's Smash reveal were two things that would eventually give the fans more of a reason to push harder for her unlike how things went in the past.

To be quite frank, we will never know what will go on with the Japanese fanbase as long as we can;t read Japanese or know about their current status. That's where @ChronoBound and @PushDustIn since they are one of the few users who actually collect data based on Smash support from the Far East. It's only a matter of time until we get more of an insight on how things go there since not much had changed from what I see in Pixiv.

 

[memoryman3]

Hahahahaha xD

Well... Do you expect from Female Newcomers in the Ballot?

Well....there is a Male/Female toggle in the ballot. So if you want to increase her chances, vote for her as a female!

 

[bksbestbwoy]

*Thinks about how cool it is that he has three sisters who all had Daisy in mind the very instant the Fighter Ballot went live.*

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

*Thinks about how cool it is that he has three sisters who all had Daisy in mind the very instant the Fighter Ballot went live.*

Two words: Lucky mofo.

 

[Extremmefan]

Well....there is a Male/Female toggle in the ballot. So if you want to increase her chances, vote for her as a female!

"Your Gender"... Sure, that's a character "Male/Female" toggle, isn't it?

... That's sarcasm if you can't detect it.

 

[memoryman3]

*Thinks about how cool it is that he has three sisters who all had Daisy in mind the very instant the Fighter Ballot went live.*

The casuals are on our side!

 

[memoryman3]

"Your Gender"... Sure, that's a character "Male/Female" toggle, isn't it?

... That's sarcasm if you can't detect it.

If excuted poorly, sarcasm is poorly detected on the net.

 

[Extremmefan]

If excuted poorly, sarcasm is poorly detected on the net.

I know, I was just making a sarcastic comment about you guys thinking the whole "Male/Female" toggle is just in front of "Your Gender" (whereas "Your Gender" means the gender of the person voting)

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

The casuals are on our side!

As long as Cranky Kong isn't involved, then having casuals help us is a good thing. Because we all know that cranky *** ape hates on the new generation for dissing on the classics or think that things were better with the "real gamers".

 

[Burruni]

As long as Cranky Kong isn't involved, then having casuals help us is a good thing. Because we all know that cranky *** ape hates on the new generation for dissing on the classics or think that things were better with the "real gamers".

This will forever be the best friggin burn that Nintendo will ever do.

 

[memoryman3]

This will forever be the best friggin burn that Nintendo will ever do.

If we get another Mario/DK rep....IT'S ON LIKE CRANKY KONG!