The Sassy Princess of Sarasaland: Daisy for SSB4 (A New Daisy for Smash Thread Opens See Pg. 197)

[memoryman3]

She did, in the guise of the Mushroom Genie.

Forget about too many Mario reps, The Mushroom Genie is a sure fire shoo-in for pre ballot DLC.

 

[Warlock*G]

Forget about too many Mario reps, The Mushroom Genie is a sure fire shoo-in for pre ballot DLC.

Yeah. Also, Tatanga for Smash. That way, Daisy can have her revenge

 

[HanAmes]

She did, in the guise of the Mushroom Genie.

So, in Mario Party, Shantae was the one who's been taking players to the star all along? It was her all along!? Awesome sauce! *_*

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Forget about too many Mario reps, The Mushroom Genie is a sure fire shoo-in for pre ballot DLC.

Not until we get Brash the Bear in Mario Kart, because he's the real shoo-in in this peace.

 

[HanAmes]

Not until we get Brash the Bear in Mario Kart, because he's the real shoo-in in this peace.

Who, in the blue Hades, is Brash the Bear?

 

[Warlock*G]

Who, in the blue Hades, is Brash the Bear?

A dip**** from DKC3.

 

[Extremmefan]

Who, in the blue Hades, is Brash the Bear?

I second that question...

A dip**** from DKC3.

... I STAND CORRECTED!

 

[Warlock*G]

I second that question...


... I STAND CORRECTED!

Yeah, I like sharing knowledge.

 

[Extremmefan]

Yeah, I like sharing knowledge.

While that's true...YOU DID IT WHILE I WAS TYPING MY POST!

 

[Warlock*G]

While that's true...YOU DID IT WHILE I WAS TYPING MY POST!

Here is... SOMETHING FOR YOU!

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Who, in the blue Hades, is Brash the Bear?

The best option for a Donkey Kong Country 3 rep (Sorry Kiddy Kong) and @BKupa666's favorite character if you ignore his avatar. You guys are probably a bit young or haven't been around since the days of the first Super Smash Bros. 4 topic pre-speculation. He would normally use that handsome ursid as a counterargument for any time someone brings up the whole "Sakurai adds a character no one expects" excuse that people use for their unlikely choices. So now you know the story of Brash's notoriety on these boards.

 

[HanAmes]

The best option for a Donkey Kong Country 3 rep (Sorry Kiddy Kong) and @BKupa666's favorite character if you ignore his avatar. You guys are probably a bit young or haven't been around since the days of the first Super Smash Bros. 4 topic pre-speculation. He would normally use that handsome ursid as a counterargument for any time someone brings up the whole "Sakurai adds a character no one expects" excuse that people use for their unlikely choices. So now you know the story of Brash's notoriety on these boards.

Meh, I much rather have...

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Meh, I much rather have...
View attachment 53466

It's cool, because a majority of K. Rool supporters feel that Dixie Kong and K. Rool are both deserving reps for the abysmal Donkey Kong Country representation that we have. But the main problem is that there are times when both fanbases can never get a long due to believing that "X gets in the way of Y" or that there are enough primates in the roster. Gee, that sounds exactly like how the things are when it comes to the crowd that support a certain Mario or Fire Emblem character.

Though there are some good fans like me, Bkupa, and a few others who don't resort to such childish arguments. It is pretty rare to find some open mind Smash fans that don't resort to such petty conflicts over what's considered the "correct" idea of a character to be in Smash. Even a Toad fan like myself isn't bitter about Rosalina's inclusion at all and feels that her spot in the roster was justified.

 

[Troykv]

It's cool, because a majority of K. Rool supporters feel that Dixie Kong and K. Rool are both deserving reps for the abysmal Donkey Kong Country representation that we have. But the main problem is that there are times when both fanbases can never get a long due to believing that "X gets in the way of Y" or that there are enough primates in the roster. Gee, that sounds exactly like how the things are when it comes to the crowd that support a certain Mario or Fire Emblem character.

Though there are some good fans like me, Bkupa, and a few others who don't resort to such childish arguments. It is pretty rare to find some open mind Smash fans that don't resort to such petty conflicts over what's considered the "correct" idea of a character to be in Smash. Even a Toad fan like myself isn't bitter about Rosalina's inclusion at all and feels that her spot in the roster was justified.

F*** the police, I vote for Micaiah from Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn!

But actually yeah... I think that would be great that DK Series get another Character and a Assist Trophy

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Hey guys. Did i miss on any info aside from new supporters?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Hey guys. Did i miss on any info aside from new supporters?

Nothing really, just joking about the "real shoo-in" and talking about how several fandoms would not unify instead of arguing which choice is more deserving. I was namely using those who support a Mario or Fire Emblem character as examples while saying that Donkey Kong Country deserves two newcomers (Dixie and K. Rool) in the future. Just general stuff about how representation works and the fact we can't determine which ones would make the most sense.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Nothing really, just joking about the "real shoo-in" and talking about how several fandoms would not unify instead of arguing which choice is more deserving. I was namely using those who support a Mario or Fire Emblem character as examples while saying that Donkey Kong Country deserves two newcomers (Dixie and K. Rool) in the future. Just general stuff about how representation works and the fact we can't determine which ones would make the most sense.

I see. Do you have any info on how we are doing position wise compared to last month if its not too much to ask?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I see. Do you have any info on how we are doing position wise compared to last month if its not too much to ask?

Slowly getting better, but still not that much to make a difference. It would be a miracle if it were to have that massive boost like Geno's fanbase did recently (No pun intended).

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Slowly getting better, but still not that much to make a difference. It would be a miracle if it were to have that massive boost like Geno's fanbase did recently (No pun intended).

The major thing holding Daisy back is the "too much Mario" chants and Daisy being seen as a Peach clone, where we know that Daisy would instead use sports equipment to fight. Being the classy broad that she is, she would be the athletic fighter to Peach's "pampered" fighting style.

Just remember to check the Sarasland Princess' shortcomings and work on them. Find a way to make her sound appealing to the unconverted audience. Make them want her as badly as King K. Rool and Isaac.

Daisy fans need to convince the detractors of these two things:

1) Why is Daisy deserving of turning the notch of Mario characters up by one when we have "enough" already.

2) Why would we want a Peach clone (we know the true story behind her fighting style, but not the masses).

In terms of #2 I can say that we should embrace her Strikers outfit and shun the princess outfit, since it has "Peach clone" written all over it.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Slowly getting better, but still not that much to make a difference. It would be a miracle if it were to have that massive boost like Geno's fanbase did recently (No pun intended).

In what aspect and how?

 

[Ark of Silence101]

The major thing holding Daisy back is the "too much Mario" chants and Daisy being seen as a Peach clone, where we know that Daisy would instead use sports equipment to fight. Being the classy broad that she is, should would be the athletic fighter to Peach's "pampered" fighting style.

Just remember to check the Sarasland Princess' shortcomings and work on them. Find a way to make her sound appealing to the unconverted audience. Make them want her as badly as King K. Rool and Isaac.

Daisy fans need to convince the detractors of these two things:

1) Why is Daisy deserving of turning the notch of Mario characters up by one when we have "enough" already.

2) Why would we want a Peach clone (we know the true story behind her fighting style, but not the masses).

In terms of #2 I can say that we should embrace her Strikers outfit and shun the princess outfit, since it has "Peach clone" written all over it.

I wholeheartedly agree. Where should we start on this, aside from the Facebook and Twitter pages?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

In what aspect and how?

Just more people making new videos or fanart about the issue with a few shares here and there. Nothing really spectacular in other aspects. If the salt on Gamefaqs is anything to go by, the number of opposers still remain the same even if there are some well thought arguments about it. It will take more than just simple advertisements to make more people (even casuals) on board with the idea like @ Oracle_Summon said.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Just more people making new videos or fanart about the issue with a few shares here and there. Nothing really spectacular in other aspects. If the salt on Gamefaqs is anything to go by, the number of opposers still remain the same even if there are some well thought arguments about it. It will take more than just simple advertisements to make more people (even casuals) on board with the idea like @ Oracle_Summon said.

Again I agree, all big things start small and this is no exception, so how should we start?

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I wholeheartedly agree. Where should we start on this, aside from the Facebook and Twitter pages?

I don't know exactly, but I would suggest rebutting the notion that Mario has enough characters. That is the first issue, since that is what turn people off from the Waluigi and Daisy suggests at first glance.

Establishing Daisy as her own identity and not an orange tomboyish Peach is the second matter, or first depending on what this Support Thread suggests.

I am neutral on Daisy, but to be honest, I do not know enough about her.

The only thing I can really suggest is, look at Daisy's shortcomings and iron them out. Make the appealing without attacking any other fanbase.

To note, the Geno Fanbase got bigger and more motivated because AlphaDream (creators of the Mario & Luigi RPG games) want Geno in their next game. What this did is not only motivate the Geno fanbase, but made him look more tangible (possible) and the majority of people like to back up someone who is likely, just look at Isaac and King K. Rool.

Edit: To add, Daisy has no game to call her own and no big playable position in the Mario titles. She is in the same position as Waluigi, although she is older, she still is not used in the major games like Toad and Rosalina has, meaning she is only seen as Mario Spin Off Fodder.

Just something to throw in that a Detractor would say.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Again I agree, all big things start small and this is no exception, so how should we start?

What Oracle stated is close enough to what we should do for now. Think about the flaws she have and talk about ways in which we can rebuke them without insulting the Geno or Toad fans.

Just as a heads up, I will be pretty busy this week since me and a guy are starting an operation for Ayumi Tachibana. For now, we are working on the script for the video and I have to find a site where he can get the fanart contest prizes (Lucina Amiibo) for cheap. Since he is going out of his way possible to make her more known among American Smash fans, this is something that should be payed special attention for the upcoming weeks.

 

[HanAmes]

I don't know exactly, but I would suggest rebutting the notion that Mario has enough characters. That is the first issue, since that is what turn people off from the Waluigi and Daisy suggests at first glance.

Establishing Daisy as her own identity and not an orange tomboyish Peach is the second matter, or first depending on what this Support Thread suggests.

I am neutral on Daisy, but to be honest, I do not know enough about her.

The only thing I can really suggest is, look at Daisy's shortcomings and iron them out. Make the appealing without attacking any other fanbase.

To note, the Geno Fanbase got bigger and more motivated because AlphaDream (creators of the Mario & Luigi RPG games) want Geno in their next game. What this did is not only motivate the Geno fanbase, but made him look more tangible (possible) and the majority of people like to back up someone who is likely, just look at Isaac and King K. Rool.

Edit: To add, Daisy has no game to call her own and no big playable position in the Mario titles. She is in the same position as Waluigi, although she is older, she still is not used in the major games like Toad and Rosalina has, meaning she is only seen as Mario Spin Off Fodder.

Just something to throw in that a Detractor would say.

This is why Daisy desperately needs her own game, or at least star in one of the main Mario titles.

Back then, about two years ago before Smash 4 was released to the public, and during the period where we speculated new characters, I felt that Daisy was already Smash material with what she had to offer, but unfortunately, after over ten years of being in Mario spin-off titles, she still didn't have strong enough leverage to be even considered as a playable character. Because of all of this, although she's Smash material (in my eyes), she isn't quite ready, yet.

It's true that Smash favors characters from main titles, and if someone like Rosalina can be confirmed just by staring in a main Mario title, then perhaps the same could happen for our beloved Flower Princess, furthermore, if she had her own game, then she could potentially find herself on the Smash roster under her own brand.

Now, that the Smash Ballot is happening, that brought up some more insight as to her suddenly becoming a playable character. Even when she is only in spin-offs, and with enough votes and demand of the character, she just might happen, but then again, her 'only in spin-offs' stigma is still a part of the problem, since people only see her in that kind of capacity (evident of Daisy's RTC).

Compared to other characters, it's challenging to try and promote Daisy as she is right now, and of course, myself and many others are up for that challenge! To surmount this mountain of an obstacle, we, as Daisy fans, need to come up with a plan to promote Daisy and draw in more people to clamor for her as well.

 

[ThePenguinGamer0]

Am I the only one who wants Daisy to have a moveset based on the Super Mario Land games?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Am I the only one who wants Daisy to have a moveset based on the Super Mario Land games?

Actually, I've tried making a moveset based soley on that in the past and it borrowed aspects of the first few games. The Fake Daisy counter, the Super Balls, the ears from the Bunny Power-Up for flight, and the Sky Pop plane Final Smash.

Knowing Sakurai, he would probably want to be as nostalgic as possible with a certain character's moveset and there is something suspicious about Wario not having any of his Wario Land abilities. Maybe it's because he feel that WarioWare suits him more or because he is saving to more Land oriented stuff for a more deserving character. I've always found that part of Wario's overall existence in Smash pretty fishy unless it's because he feels the games aren't worthy of representation (If having one remix is anything to go by).

 

[Extremmefan]

In terms of #2 I can say that we should embrace her Strikers outfit and shun the princess outfit, since it has "Peach clone" written all over it.

OR the sports outfit! (I agree, the dress makes her looks too similar to Peach, even though she's very different, but the Strikers outfit? I'm not sure, Strikers wasn't really popular, and, unlike the sport outfits, it has only appeared in, what, two game?).

Am I the only one who wants Daisy to have a moveset based on the Super Mario Land games?

Not really. I'll like to see her having a moveset based off EVERY game she has starred in! (Super Mario Land, the Olympic games, Mario Party and Mario Kart, not to forget to mention the other sports games such as Sports Mix and Golf)

 

[memoryman3]

Am I the only one who wants Daisy to have a moveset based on the Super Mario Land games?

Nintendo has never really acknowledged that fake Daisy thing. It would have been stupidly awesome to have Daisy's anti gravity trick in Mario Kart 8 having her transform into that ugly little critter....

 

[Ark of Silence101]

All right, we already know her assets, let's focus on eliminating her flaws such as:

She would just be a Peach clone!: Top priority everyone we gotta change that flawed mentality preferably without the personality argument because people think its flawed, Oracle's suggestion is a good way to start.

We don't need more Mario characters! Especially one that is irrelevant!: This comes mostly from haters but this is also a key factor here, we need to convince them that even if she only appears in spin-offs, she is anything but irrelevant.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Countering Daisy's issues huh?


"Daisy only appears in spin-offs. Rosalina appeared in a main game. Thus she is a main Mario character and relevant"

While Daisy has not appeared in many main Mario games, this doesn't mean she's not a main Mario character.
She appeared in almost every spin-off ever. And when counting these, appearing in most of them is pretty major in and of itself.
The Mario spin-offs will always continue time and time again, and they will all have Daisy in the roster.

Not only does she appear in most of the spin-offs, she also appears in one of the first, making her have senority while being relevant.

Also, there's no official rule that says the spin-offs are inferior to the least major main games.
That's just a fan-rule.

Fact is, Daisy appears more than the rest of the potential candidates, from 90's to now, and has no reason to stop doing that.

Btw, this character probably appeared in more games than your whole top 5 appeared together.
Even King K. Rool dwarfs in comparison to the Flower Princess.

"Daisy has no moveset potential/no clear archetype/is a Peach-clone. Rosalina had spacey stuff and Lumas to work with."

Just like Rosalina was just a Space Peach, amirite

Daisy has a lot of moveset potential for the previous answer given.
Most spin-offs involve special moves and catergories (All-Round, Speed etc.)
Thus we have a very good sense of Daisy's potential and archetype when looking at these.
Looking at it, it seems Daisy has an affinity for Flowers and is a speedy and technical character.

Now there's something important to say here:
The moveset is not made by solely taping together the individual special moves.

There are creative liberties to take when making these.
While a basketball dunk is the only recovery move that is a spin-off move, a better fit would be a Petal Tornado or a Flower Glider (Mario Kart 8 or Super Mario Galaxy 2)

Another example is a garden special that, while appearing in Mario Power Tennis, could house different plant-like enemies to damage enemies, or could release pollen, petals and other plant-stuff to hurt the opponent.

Last, but not least, there are a lot of Mario plantpowers that Daisy could use.
There are dozens of flowers that give actual powers, like Fire Flower.
A lot of plant-like enemies, like Nippers.
And there are a lot of flower-based hazards that could be planted over to Daisy's movekit. (Piranha Vines, Petey Piranha)

See, there's a lot to do with both real-life plant physics (pollen, petals) , Mario's many plant enemies (Piranha Plant, Nipper) and Mario's flower powers (Fire Flower, Flower Glider)

"No new Mario character, it's impossible. Rosalina and the Big Bowser's Kid are enough. Daisy's unneeded."

Just as unneeded as having Bowser Jr. AND Rosalina in the base game, right?
The Mario series sell extremely high, being the most selling franchise from Nintendo.

DLC needs to sell on his own, and what's a better solution than selling a Mario character?

As for "reps", Sakurai added two completely unique Mario characters in the base game already.
No stopping him from adding the third.

"She's so filler"

Um, yeah, that's why Daisy appears even on a roster of 10.
She might be filler, but she's a pretty good one as she fills the Mario Spin-Off roster every single time.

BTW, This is a non-argument, everybody could be said to be filler as every character is made to fill a specific role.

Heck, even Mario is a filler character made to fill-in the lack of Popeye in the original.

Ex.
"Um yeah King K. Rool is so filler they just needed a villain"
"Mario is so filler they just needed a jumpguy after popeye didn't do it"
"Luigi so filler, he's only player two"
"Ridley so filler, they just needed more bosses"

"Daisy has no personality, I, Rosalina, am at least always super sad with echoes."

Being always happy and girly and rainbows (Peach), is as much as a personality as a loud and dense tomboy (Daisy)

 

[Oracle_Summon]

OR the sports outfit! (I agree, the dress makes her looks too similar to Peach, even though she's very different, but the Strikers outfit? I'm not sure, Strikers wasn't really popular, and, unlike the sport outfits, it has only appeared in, what, two game?).

Fine by me. Either way, her princess dress would be best replaced, since it tells the casual audience that she is a Peach clone. Something that gives Daisy individuality and would fit her personality would be best.

 

[Extremmefan]

Fine by me. Either way, her princess dress would be best replaced, since it tells the casual audience that she is a Peach clone. Something that gives Daisy individuality and would fit her personality would be best.

And, like we've said already, the sports outfits and the Striker outfit are perfect for that, being entirely different from the classic dress. (That said, I've always thought Daisy should use clothing similar to the female Wii Fit Trainer or to Lucina, but not a dress like Peach's or Rosalina's)

Here is... SOMETHING FOR YOU!

I know how to type, thanks. The joke was that you've posted your comment at around the same time I typed my first reply, hence why I've added the joke as a reply to your comment.

 

[memoryman3]

And, like we've said already, the sports outfits and the Striker outfit are perfect for that, being entirely different from the classic dress. (That said, I've always thought Daisy should use clothing similar to the female Wii Fit Trainer or to Lucina, but not a dress like Peach's or Rosalina's)


I know how to type, thanks. The joke was that you've posted your comment at around the same time I typed my first reply, hence why I've added the joke as a reply to your comment.

IT'S NOT TOO BAD BECAUSE I LIKE TO SHOUT IN COMMENTS TOO BUT YOU WILL GET LOOKED DOWN ON AS AN ATTENTION SEEKER IF YOU DO SO!

 

[memoryman3]

If you look at the (kiddie) Play Nintendo site, you'll see what everyone means by Nintendo neglecting Daisy and pushing Rosalina (Yes I know Wario isn't there, but he has his own series)


Especially the Valentine situation where it gets really obvious.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

If you look at the (kiddie) Play Nintendo site, you'll see what everyone means by Nintendo neglecting Daisy and pushing Rosalina (Yes I know Wario isn't there, but he has his own series)


Especially the Valentine situation where it gets really obvious.

Of course Nintendo would leave out Wario since he would teach kids to be rude to women or fart in their face. Not to mention that they don't want to influence them to gorge out on sweets during Valentine's Day.

Jokes aside, we get it for the umpteenth time. It's like they are trying to force any kid that haven't played them yet to buy the Super Mario Galaxy games and many people would think of Rosalina when it comes to them. No surprise there since she's at least a star in a canon 3D Mario title unlike Daisy.

 

[memoryman3]

Of course Nintendo would leave out Wario since he would teach kids to be rude to women or fart in their face. Not to mention that they don't want to influence them to gorge out on sweets during Valentine's Day.

Jokes aside, we get it for the umpteenth time. It's like they are trying to force any kid that haven't played them yet to buy the Super Mario Galaxy games and many people would think of Rosalina when it comes to them. No surprise there since she's at least a star in a canon 3D Mario title unlike Daisy.

While Daisy never, ever appeared in any mainline Mario game since the 1990's, this doesn't mean she doesn't exist in canon. In fact I still stand to the fact that there probably isn't a canon in the Mario universe

 

[Extremmefan]

While Daisy never, ever appeared in any mainline Mario game since the 1990's, this doesn't mean she doesn't exist in canon. In fact I still stand to the fact that there probably isn't a canon in the Mario universe

OH. MY. GOD! That could mean Daisy really DOES exist in the main games! (If that's so, then the only thing that got against her inclusion the recent main games was just a pure "forgot she exist" reason given by the Mario devs!)

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

While Daisy never, ever appeared in any mainline Mario game since the 1990's, this doesn't mean she doesn't exist in canon. In fact I still stand to the fact that there probably isn't a canon in the Mario universe

I know, I was being sarcastic to match what any of her haters would say. The Mario universe might as well be equivalent of your average animated sitcom with little or no continuity whatsoever. Except the only difference is that their stories blow every animated sitcom out of the water.