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They are. But most of them just aren't worth it.
Pretty much.
For me...This remains my favourite usage of Amiibo, to date. I just wish that they'd included similar functionality in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, building upon both Smash's Amiibo functionality, and Mario Kart 7's StreetPass feature (which built an AI based on how you play, which other players would receive via StreetPass) - that way, I could've put some worthwhile data on my Daisy Amiibo, already.
Goodie, can't wait to see Daisy kick butt in another animated masterpiece.
Hey, what usage of amiibo do you think we could see in Mario Odyssey? I would like it if certain ones gave you a quest relating to the specific character which of course includes our favorite flower princess, but that's just wishful thinking.
Probably things like costumes or gear at best. At least that's how I see it before E3 proves me wrong.
If you are gonna barge into a thread just to detract do it with right spelling and decent arguments
If you're going to waste a post, learn how homonyms work and to go to a thread people want to read it.
Good thing you had things covered here.If you are gonna barge into a thread just to detract do it with right spelling and decent arguments
But since I respect your guts for coming in this thread for the sake of an argument, here are some moveset ideas to read.
No worries, they're long enough for a good discussion.
Looking forward to your thoughts.
I wanted to continue making a general Daisy moveset, but because thinking of specific moves is really hard here's another one of my moveset design concepts.
Basically I've thought of all the elements a Daisy moveset could and should have when it comes to gameplay.
First is the ball.
Daisy must have a move where she summons a ball.
This way, she has a projectile that she can use to create comboes and extend her range
While the ball is potentially a great way to poke at mid-range, it'd require great technique to consistently aim the ball at the opponent.
On top of that, the ball can't be spammed, as it stays on stage and can't be automatically summoned when it's still on stage.
To prevent the core of Daisy moveset, well, sucking balls by lying on-stage all the time doing nothing, the ball could automatically bounce up if it hits the ground, either by the ball being or taking from Super Mario Land's Superball in that sense.
By letting the ball roam around the stage for so long, Daisy is forced to take the approach and take control of the ball in mid-range, mostly by the tools presented below and thus cannot camp with this powerful projectile by spamming it over and over.
Design-wise, it's to create a core to an unique athlete playstyle, where she's active and mobile without being a rushdown fighter.
Furthermore, it's an amazing way to portray her as the unique blend of aggressiveness and grace, as a technique class-fighter and to further her connection with Peach, who also uses a technical projectile.
Next is an upgraded ball
Of course, as the ball is the crux of her moveset, there should also be a way to upgrade the ball.
Aside from giving Daisy an in-fight objective and a way to let several other of her moves interact with the ball in a special way, it's also a way to further design her character and fighting role.
Giving the upgrade a Lip Stick-effect, for example, makes the ball an excellent damage dealer and creates pressure when combined with a heavy combo, however, it might also seem a bit passive, since the ball does the damage dealing and doesn't require Daisy to go in to capitalise on the damage increase.
In fact, it could very well be used in a zoning playstyle, using the slowly increasing damage to camp the clock as you have higher percentage
Perhaps more interesting would be to split the ball into three like the Torpedo in Super Mario Land.
It'd require Daisy to be more active if she wants to capitalise on the roaming balls by converting them into rapid volleys, but it might seem a bit gimmicky, turning Daisy more into a Pac-Man-esque character with a stage filled with traps than a Diddy Kong where a robust cqc character is spiced up with a projectile.
Of course existing effects, such as Stun or Trip could work as well, although the danger might lie in balance and/or uniqueness
A throwable projectile that trips might be too similar to Diddy, whereas a throwable projectile that stuns might make Daisy too good.
With the core laid down, let's continue with the next part of building Daisy's moveset: Mobility Specials
Since Daisy needs to get to the ball quickly or needs to space correctly easily, Daisy needs some mobility.
This mobility would be, compared to Peach's float, faster and less precise, meaning Daisy would ditch Peach's microspacing in favor of more rigorous spacing.
On top of adding to Daisy's athlete-style, with Daisy essentially gaining multiple jumps, they'd also have the function of keeping up with the ball and its weird angles.
Mobility specials can work in multiple ways, such as a horizontal dive or a third jump.
These mobility specials can also come with an auto-catch function
This auto-catch would create a smooth way to transition between an hypervolley/trapping style of a ball bouncing around, to a more reactionary style of throwing the ball when the time is right.
Alternatively, it might be a good way to reposition the ball in order to start a combo where you want.
Not only an auto-catch function could work, an auto-throw function could work as well, allowing Daisy to throw the ball in more directions than with the original move.
Alternatively, throwing the ball with this function might be a good trigger for the upgraded version of the ball.
Next is a piece of stage control, the ability to plant a garden
This garden can serve a few purposes:
First, it can trigger the ball upgrade: When the ball bounces in the garden (Outright throwing might not work due to that being a bit too easy), it turns into the upgraded version.
This way, Daisy's technique-side can show, since it gives a specific goal to where the ball needs to be goaded, aside from in the opponent's face.
On top of that, it could work for mobility, such as maybe avoiding the end lag on mobility moves by landing in the fresh flowers, but it could also work hurt the opponents' mobility slowing opponents stepping in the flowers, although I'd rather avoid implementing that part of the move in order to keep Daisy from getting a too powerful zoning tool that might allow her to get too passive.
Then there's an obvious move, but one that can change the dynamics in the moveset, which is the inclusion of powered up sports equipment
Really, the only unique thing about these is being a less subtle way to tack on the upgrade onto the ball, allowing Daisy to shoot a powerful ball at the opponent when the right time and the right angle aligns.
Last but not least, there's the wall.
The wall is perhaps the move that I should've started with, since it's relate to the balls the most.
First of all, it's a good way to bounce the ball in the desired direction.
Redirecting the ball might be hard sometimes, but a wall could help in that.
Put a wall on the ledge and the ball is less prone to getting blasted off, or for a more stylish trick, put a wall behind the opponent and throw the ball at him to potentionally hit twice.
Of course, since it's a wall, it can hinder the opponents' movement by putting a wall between you and the opponent.
This can also be used to keep the opponents from reaching the ball.
However, these applications might give Daisy a trap-character moniker too fast and might even turn her into a zoner.
A recurring theme in this design draft, sure, but I really don't want Daisy to be a zoner or a trapper even though she has projectiles.
But of course, it can also be used to help her mobility. Of course, Daisy can use the walls as a way to get higher up easier, but an eventual wall jump can also tremendously increase her mobility and ways to get around.
The wall can come in multiple flavors, as the wall can either spawn a few meters in front of Daisy like Zelda's charged Phantom-move or for a more technical move, Daisy can "plant" a small crystal/flower bud in one location. If she presses the button again, which can be anywhere, the mini-wall grows into a full-sized wall, blocking opponents.
This way Daisy can hinder opponents' movement, but also have greater control over the ball.
A fence can also be incorporated in the garden special.
Aside from having the same uses as a wall on a smaller scale, it can also be used to pinball a ball through the garden, with the garden, slowing opponents, fence, acting as an obstacle and the ball, damaging opponents, working together to limit the opponent's movement.
Also, the fence can be used to implement new mobility tricks for Daisy, such as allowing her to jump over the fence to perform a trick akin to Mario Kart, with her gaining a speed boost afterwards.
Some examples of moves.
Most moves not listed here are easy to guess, like a "Garden" special where she summons a garden, a "Flower Swing" move where she swings with a baseball bat/tennis racket/etc.
Some are more creative, so they're listed here.
Batadon Bastion (Category: Walls)
Two Batadons from Super Mario Land pop out out the ground a few metres next to Daisy, floating one Daisy head above the ground, one on each side of Daisy
Crystal Smash (Category: Walls)
Daisy summons a ring of crystals around her.
But some moves can also use multiple categories:
Flowerbed Return (Categories: Mobility, Garden, Auto-Catch)
Daisy dives forward a few metres, flowers appearing where she lands.
She automatically catches the ball if she's close.
Flower Glider (Categories: Mobility, Wall)
Daisy recovers using a Flower Glider.
Like Peach's Parasol, it knocks up opponents, but also the ball, making it a semi-wall
In order to add the Garden-category, flowers could appear where Daisy lands, as she smashes the big flower in the ground.
Flower Trampoline (Categories: Mobility, Wall, Auto-Catch, Auto-Throw, Garden)
Wooh, that's a biggy.
But I'll break it down.
Daisy jumps up by summoning a Flower Trampoline (Mobility)
Up until the peak, she can catch the ball (Auto-Cafch)
At her peak, she can throw the ball in three directions diagonally downwards (auto-throw)
A small garden appears where the auto-thrown ball lands (Garden)
The trampoline can be angled in three directions (diagonally up left, diagonally up right and upwards) and stays on stage, which causes balls that touch it to bounce in that direcfions (Wall)
Remind you, most of these moves and attributes are shown to be used by Daisy, so it's an unique moveset while keeping outrageous creative liberty away.
Wall of Text: A write-up on the pros and cons of the different wall types in a Superball-centred moveset.
I wanted to make a moveset using the write-up posted above and everything fell in its place pretty fast.
Neutral B would be the Superball, Side B would be a Flowerbed Return, Up B would be an updated Flower Trampoline where the Trampoline itself would disappear right after the jump, as the move would already have the functions of catching the ball and throwing it in the garden easily, with Down B being a wall to bounce the ball.
Simple.
However, there are a few different types of walls to use, each with their own pros, cons and playstyle possibilities.
First is the many kinds of potential walls in function.
Should Daisy put a wall next to her, or should she be able to put out a wall farther away, like Zelda's Phantom?
Luminario then mentioned the possibility of a 'delayed wall", not unlike Villager's Tree, although Daisy could sprout her wall from anywhere with the press of a button
Eventually I settled on two types of walls:
-The slide wall
-The delayed wall
The slide wall is a move that consists of three parts.
First is the charging, which dictates how far the wall would slide after releasing the charge.
This charge could either be Shadow Sneak-style, where the charge cannot be "held" and the more traditional charging style where Daisy can store the charge for later use.
Then is the sliding part.
This is where Daisy would summon the wall and slide it to its destination.
Without charge, this destination is relatively close to Daisy, whereas a charged slide wall would go the extra mile.
Lastly is the wall part, where the wall stays where it is, reflecting Superballs that bounce against it.
The slide wall is a more direct wall when it comes to reflecting Superballs, being able to intercept a ball quickly if Daisy slides it in the desired place in time.
This would allow for quick reflects, as Daisy would be able to put a wall where she needs to when she needs to from any part of the stage.
The quick reaction time can also be used to keep opponents away from the Superball, as Daisy can put up a wall between the opponent and the ball from anywhere from the stage as long as she has enough charge.
This quick reaction time can be emphasised even more with a move where the wall does not stay after being slided, instead reflecting balls that bounce against it as the ball is still sliding.
To balance it out, the charge can be held in order to have a quick way ready to intercept balls from across the stage.
The delayed wall would instead be more about strategy and pre-planning.
It would consist of three parts.
First is the "planting part"
Daisy would plant a small object on the ground that denotes where the wall is going to be.
This doesn't have to be a seed, just like the wall doesn't have to be a plant.
This wouldn't affect opponents, just like Villager's tree sprout doesn't (except when he uses that blasted custom sprout)
Then the sprouting part unfolds, as Daisy presses the button again to make the wall pop out of the ground.
This would damage and knockback opponents, but nothing too severe.
Then the wall would stay on the ground and reflect any Superballs that bounce against it.
Since Daisy can't swiftly put up a wall with this method, this one would be more about planning and strategy.
If you want to throw the ball, but also want it back, you can put down a wall there, throw a ball, and pop up the wall.
This way, Daisy can put up a wall after throwing a ball for surprising effects.
If you don't want the wall to act as a trap too much, especially since Daisy would be able to sprout it from across the stage, one could implement the requirement that the wall won't sprout when an opponent is close and would get hit.
This would prevent the wall to be used as a way to deter opponents instead of the wall being used to reflect the balls in the right direction.
However, this would not stop Daisy from using the rising wall as a way to get to a higher level to catch balls easier.
Second are the different ways of visually representing a wall.
What I mean by that is that we now have the concept of a wall-hitbox, but how would that hitbox look like in game?
I found three options to be the most likely:
Batadons:
For some Super Mario Land flair, the flying Easter Island statues are the way to go.
The sliding wall would involve a Batadon flying out of the ground before flying forwards to the destination.
The delayed wall would involve Daisy laying down a Ganchan, the rock enemy, which for the reasons of creative liberty changes into a Batadon when pressing the button again.
Functionally, their flying habits make aerial walls possible.
For the sliding wall, they could also pop out of the ground at their destination instead of sliding over the ground itself, damaging opponents, which could keep their zoning potential at a minimum and letting the wall be used for Superball-shenanigans only.
Visually, the walls are the most imposing of the three choices, which means it's hard (pun intended) to say opponents "can just run through it"
Unlike almost holographic "flower magic", one does not simply run through a statue.
This can get even more troublesome with the sliding wall, where an uncharged wall can put up an extra shield immediately.
The biggest con to them is the lack of Super Mario Land representation throughout the rest of the moveset.
Never is Daisy shown to be a summoner of Super Mario Land and although it's not unlikely that Daisy is capable of summoning her underlings, she's never shown to do so in Mario games or the moveset, making it clash with the rest of her portrayal
Crystal Smash
Of course when talking about walls in Daisy's arsenal of abilities, Crystal Smash deserves a mention.
For the sliding wall, there are two possibilities.
Either Daisy summons the wall in front of her and pushes it magically to the destination.
Or, resembling Shadow Sneak, the Crystal Wall would automatically pop out at the destination, again leaving out the camping possibilities of a wall shoving over the stage.
For the delayed wall, Daisy can summon the top of the crystal which shows itself completely with a second button press.
Pros are the possibility of a slide-less sliding wall, the fact it's a canonical ability to Daisy that isn't out of place in a sports moveset.
Cons are again the fact that opponents can't run or walk through and the fact Mario Strikers introduced a lot of abilities that are out of character and I feel Crystal Smash is one of them.
Functionally, another con is that crystals can't be summoned in the air, which means the real pinballing potential is left untapped.
Flower Magic
A bit generic compared to the others, but Daisy can also use her flower magic to summon a big flower to act as a wall.
For the sliding wall, Daisy can magically slide foward a big flower hologram magic thing.
For the delayed wall, Daisy can plant a seed, turning into a big flower when pressing the button again.
Pros are the fact that flower magic is not as solid as crystals or walls, and thus gives the possibilities of the wall not affecting opponents, the fact they fit into the flower-based moveset thematically and the fact they can be used to upgrade the ball and the fact flower magic can also be performed in the air to perform precise pinball shenanigans.
Cons are the flower magic's genericness, coupled with Daisy not using a flower wall canonically which gives this move a very "pulled a move out of the ***"-like feeling.
(Note: I'm sure it gets annoying that I constantly emphasise on my preference for Daisy to not have powerful defensive tools but walls and other terraforming is really rare in Smash and I don't want Daisy's schtick to be walls, but I want these walls to emphasise her playstyle of technical item player.
Thus, the walls, gardens etc's usefullness should be limited to increasing the depth of Daisy's mobility options and item play instead of being a tool on their own, especially since they're tools that would encourage an extremely passive playstyle on a character that is anything except passive.
Look at DeDeDe, R.O.B and Bowser Jr. All have a clear playstyle, but since they have a move that can trap, they're seen as trapping characters. Daisy, with a wall, would almost certainly be seen as trapping, almost zoning even, with this terraforming at her disposal
It's why I am still sceptical on a wall since it has defensive and trapping uses, albeit secondary in both the sliding and delayed wall types, with the sliding wall sliding opponents away in the initial slide, and the delayed wall acting as a trap in its first stage, with opponents that step on it being prone to being knocked back by Daisy activating stage two)
Hey.
Wanna see a moveset?
Okay.
Here goes.
My timezone causes me to miss the conversation
But my aim is getting better!
My aim is getting better!
You see it's funny because making a moveset is terrible
Neutral B: Superball
With this move, Daisy can throw a Superball.
A Superball bounces off every surface it touches, making it a hyperactive projectile, like Daisy.
The move can be angled in three ways.
By not angling, Daisy throws the Superball like a baseball fastball, affected by gravity.
By angling down, Daisy throws the Superball like Mario did in Super Mario Land, which in turn is like he throws a Fireball.
By angling up, Daisy serves the ball with a Tennis Racket, throwing the ball upwards before smashing it down with a tennis racket.
Daisy cannot throw a Superball if it's already on-stage (multiple Daisies in one match aside, of course), which means it cannot be spammed.
It does not vanish, only going away if it's thrown off-stage, in which case Daisy can throw a new one using this move.
Since it bounces off of every surface, the ball doesn't just lie around on the stage, instead always moving around the stage for the opponent and Daisy to keep in mind.
This gives Daisy's moveset both a technical and energetic flair, which obviously suits her to a tee.
Functionally, this move is Daisy's bread and butter move
Side B: Flowerbed Return
Daisy dives forward, holding a baseball glove in her hand to catch incoming projectiles.
On the ground, she also summons a flower garden where she lands.
Opponents that hit the glove are knocked back, but that doesn't stop Daisy in her move.
This move has three main functions.
First of all, it is Daisy's primary mobility move, since it's relatively safe and doesn't put Daisy into free-fall.
In a sense, she can use it like Peach's float, jumping through the air in order to space quickly, both to get in the opponents face to pressure it with the Superball and to get out of harms way in order to catch a ball.
Secondly, it's the only way for Daisy to put down a garden.
The garden helps Daisy's mobility in that she gains higher jumps when jumping from the garden, but also in the sense that Daisy's landing lag is cut in half if she lands in a garden.
For Flowerbed Return and Flower Trampoline, the landing lag is almost zero, meaning Daisy can jump to her heart's content to zip around the battlefield.
Gardens, unlike most elements of stage control, do not harm the opponent in any way.
They do not slow opponents nor do they damage them.
Flowerbed Return also has the function of automatically catching all projectiles that Daisy encounters.
For small projectiles that aren't items, such as Mario and Luigi's Fireballs, this means they get cancelled out by Daisy's glove.
However, item projectiles, such as Bananas, Bombs and Vegetables, but especially Superballs, get caught by Daisy and are then treated as normal in-hand items.
This way Daisy can easily reset the situation and rethink an approach with the Superball in-hand.
Up B : Flower Trampoline
Daisy jumps off of an holographic flower magic, catching the Superball if she touches it in her flight.
This jump can be angled in three directions.
If she catches a Superball in her arc, she takes it with her until the apex of her jump, where she can throw it in eight directions.
This move has multiple uses.
Aside from its obvious use as a recovery move, it's also a great way to not only snatch the ball from the air, but also to precisely reposition it due to the eight directions this move allows Daisy to throw the ball in,
This not only gives Daisy the opportunity to snipe the opponent, but also to throw it precisely into the garden and to aim it at a wall from the right angle.
Not only is Daisy rewarded with a new chance to reposition the Superball if she catches it, but she also doesn't get helpless if she catches the ball, even though she can't use specials after that.
Down B: Wonder Flower
Daisy winds her Wonder Flower racket from Mario Power Tennis, wifh more petals appearing on the racket as she charges.
If the button is pressed again, Daisy swings her racket, sending forward the petals in a flower-shaped pattern.
This can be done in four directions: directly upwards, diagonally upwards, purely horizontal and a special diagonally downwards direction where she jumps up and "smashes" the racket
The flower wall travels fast, but does not harm opponents.
Instead, it acts like a surface for the Superball to bounce off of.
Other projectiles aren't affected by this wall and neither are opponents or Daisy.
If you have read all of this, you'd know this is a sliding wall and is thus primarily used to quickly and safely intercept and redirect the Superballs
Hope this helps, looking forward to your reply.
Well that definitely came out of nowhere, but Daisy's got to take what she can get. Good to see her get added, and same for King Boo.
Of all those years she should have been in the game, Ice Luigi was added before her.
Wasn't he just a palette swap with the added ability of more than one Ice Ball?
Mario Kart arcades need to get a home release so I can play them in my country.
Wow, that was completely unexpected!
I reckon they'd make good DLC packs.
^And possibly add Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man as guests in the next Mario Kart.
Or Namco and Sega needs enough money for both of them.
Hhhhhhmmmmmm nice memeLast time I checked, opinions aren't facts.
There was a problem fetching the tweet
Not necessarily offended, but I find this funny coming from an outdated Amiibo confessions page.
Tortilla Noggin
?
Of course we do, but I don't get why you're tagging me.And I don't know what you wanted to achieve by sharing this other than giving me a laugh. What Daisy fan gets offended by stuff like this? Pretty sure we've already accepted this as the norm and just laugh with them.
Right
That's kind of a habit that needs to be dropped.Of course we do, but I don't get why you're tagging me.
Sorry, I'm utterly confused, here.
I reckon she should, though I admit that I don't know which ones it would work best for. It's always appreciated during part of a recovery, though.
I'd actually say no on the super armor personally. She is tougher than Peach, but she's no tank. I figure she'd be a little stronger and faster than Peach, but otherwise I don't think armor would fit very well. I guess it depends on what you have in mind for what move the armor would be on.
I menat in her case.
I understand. It was all more of a suggestion for if she were to use tanky moves like Crystal Smash or other related moves for her playstyle. But you are right, she's no tank and certainly doesn't need it like Little Mac (who's all about punching ahead of himself in different ways).
Ahh, ok. Thanks for clearing up my confusion, there.
It's ok, no problem!
I was just completely baffled, since I had no idea how the subject was relevant to me. I mean, I don't use Twitter or any of that other stuff, I don't know the meme concerned (I assume it's a meme?), and I've never been offended by what other people think about fictional characters in my whole life (we like what we like, and others like what others like - simple as that, if you ask me). I should say that I speak as a super-heavyweight player with a character who's a big target, though, so my view is probably shaped by different circumstances to those who play lighter characters.
... I think that this fits nicely, as it goes with the move pretty perfectly.
But it is true.Last time I checked, opinions aren't facts.
There was a problem fetching the tweet
Not necessarily offended, but I find this funny coming from an outdated Amiibo confessions page.
True.But it is true.
I kid, I kid.
But if it came down to one of the other, you know where my allegiance lies. :V
This late? Meh, better late than never.
Don't find any offense in this.Last time I checked, opinions aren't facts.
There was a problem fetching the tweet
Not necessarily offended, but I find this funny coming from an outdated Amiibo confessions page.
This would be a big selling point for me, so I hope that this is the direction they take. I strongly suspect that they will, too, since it seems like that functionality in Mario Tennis Ultra Smash could've been laying the foundations for the future, so I think it's just a matter of waiting, at this point.
Totally agreed. Whilst I appreciate the fact that some games support read-only usage of Amiibo in order to stretch their usefulness if they do have existing data saved to them, I would appreciate a backup option just as much.
I just wish that the usage wasn't just limited to training/sparring partner.
's Cart Dash's Forward Smash (Tennis Racket, Golf Club)
I didn't bother with trophies or alt costumes honestly.
The Grand Finale also appears in Smash 4.