the salamence debate

[yummynbeefy]

do you think he is an uber or just a strong OU pokemon?

discuss

im against it but u know make your own opinions

 

[Wave⁂]

Most people think he will be voted Uber, but it's pretty much split 50/50 as to if he really is.

 

[UltiMario]

I think he's OU. He's really not difficult to take down, at all. He almost always gets a kill... but so? Most members on your team are going to get a single kill, if not, you lost lol.

He will be voted Uber.

It's the way life works. For most my teams all it means is that there's one less thing I have to worry about.

 

[UltiMario]

I even refreshed to see if a post happened and this still happened.

:/

 

[Player-4]

He should/will be Uber for the sole fact that Garchomp and Latias are Uber. Is he Uber worthy and too good in OU? No, of course not, but neither are Latias or Garchomp and we know how that ended.

 

[UltiMario]

Garchomp actually has a pretty good argument behind his banning. People were using Icicle Spear Cloyster to counter the thing for crying out loud, that's pretty overcentralizing.

Latias and Mence have no good reasons to be banned because they both have counters that you would throw on a team regardless if the foe had Mence or not.

I hope 5th gen brings some god**** good Dragon counter (Cressy on steroids, anyone?) so we can drag them all back into OU and people can stop *****ing.

 

[CRASHiC]

People were running stupid **** to counter Latais as well Ulti. They didn't really wait to let Salemence metagame develop to see if such a thing would still happen.

 

[Player-4]

Ehh but you usually packed two things to deal with Chomp, that's pretty much what you do now with Mence lol. I mean Mamo ice shard takes care of it easier, and it's easier to take down then Chomp, but in the end both usually take 2 guys to take down. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have had much more trouble with Mence than Chomp.

 

[CRASHiC]

So you deem that Garchomp is on the same level as Salemence. Since its established that Garchomp is as bad as Salamence, then it should be regarded that Salemence is also Uber. Things are broken/uber within reguards to their enviroment. Once a standard has been set (as it was with Garchomp being sent to Ubers) it should be followed until revoked.

 

[JOE!]

So, lets see here:

"WAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!! GARCHOMP IS KILLIN MAH TEEMZ!"

*Garchomp moved to Ubers*


"WAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!! SALAMENCE BE KILLIN MAH TEEMZ!"

*Salamence moved to Ubers*


"WAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!! DRAONITE BE KILLIN MAH TEEMZ!"

.......


"WAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!! CLEFFA BE KILLIN MAH TEEMZ WITH METRONOME!"

"but all we have if we move her to ubers is Seedot and Azurill o_O"

 

[Player-4]

Yeah... That's what I said, Crashic.

 

[UltiMario]

ScarfTar solidly countered Latias. Blissey walled anything without Trick. Was there a reason to use something else?

Also, Mence can only take out one thing most the time, if you pack Cressy, that number could easily be 0.
Mence doesn't give you problems if you have teams built to stop it. Say, you switch in Mence into DDMence. It's forced to Outrage as its best move. You switch in a Steel (such as, Dragon Pulse Heatran), and that's game. Mence only has so much it can do, and really, New Mixmence and DDMence is all he has, so normally you can get a solid kill on him from simple prediction or forcing him to make a move that you can abuse.

 

[Player-4]

If you do what you said Ulti then you're still out one of your best sweepers, not to mention Outrage is still going to do a stupid amount to Heatran even with the intimidate after the DD, I mean 1+ Mence Outrage almost KOs 0 hp 0 def Heatran. Ice Punch Meta would be so much better, but I understand what you're getting at.

 

[Player-4]

wtf double post

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I even refreshed to see if a post happened and this still happened.

:/

wtf double post

This lagging / 502 crap is ridiculous.

Anyways, I'd say that like UltiMario Salamence is OU. He's not completely unbearable to the point of banning. When Garchomp was around Salamence still existed, and while Latias was around Salamence was still there running his Mixed sets. Now that they're gone everyone seems to believe because the spotlight is gone Salamence has immediately fulfilled that role.

Then again I'm no OU veteran, just voicing out my opinions.

 

[CRASHiC]

Ulti, ScarfTAR sucks and you know it. In any metagame OTHER than the Latias metagame its a piece of ****.

 

[Fuelbi]

Even though I don't want it to go, I think it should be Ubers... I wiped out half this guy's team with just Outrage :/

 

[Player-4]

Yeah I refreshed my pages just like Ulti and it still screwed me

Also, Mence isn't unbearable but when stuff focuses solely on countering it then that's usually when it gets banned. Smogon is simply ridiculous.

double ninja'd >_>

 

[Riddle]

Why is smogon ridiculous? I enjoy the metagame without Salamence more. That means that the Salamence ban will make playing standard more fun for me which justifies it.

What is your criteria for banning?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Even though I don't want it to go, I think it should be Ubers... I wiped out half this guy's team with just Outrage :/

I've wiped out a UU team with Choice Band Azumarril's Aqua Jet. Does this mean Azumarril to too powerful? No. Does this mean Azumarril overcentralizes the metagame? No. It just means my opponent was stupid enough to either not have a check / counter for one of the most common Water-type Pokemon in UU or they just sucked. Similar to your opponent.
Just because you can pull a 6-0 with Belly Drum Charizard doesn't stray away from the fact that it still sucks.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Are you kidding me.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

SCREW SMASHBOARDS. This is ridiculous. I waited 5 minutes after "posting" the first time to see if it showed up. When it didn't, I posted again.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I give up. *ragequit*

 

[Player-4]

Why is smogon ridiculous? I enjoy the metagame without Salamence more. That means that the Salamence ban will make playing standard more fun for me which justifies it.

What is your criteria for banning?

Because of what they ban and allow? You get rid of Latias after testing her on Suspect and allowing her. She is not hard to handle by any means, Smogonites just don't wanna think and put a little effort into their game and so they scream to ban something giving them problems.

They tested and approved Manaphy only to ban her again in like 2 weeks for crying out loud.

They put Deoxys-S back into Ubers because he could get rocks off 100% of the time? I can't really remember the reason why he got put back on the shelf but it was something dumb.

It won't be long before they test something stupid like Rotom forms just because they're one of the most OU Pokemon and will "centralize the meta-game". That's one of my main problems with Smogon, but I didn't come here to turn this into an argument or Smogon debate, just to comment on Mence so lets keep it that way.

Edit:

God**** Tery

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

I'm not a hardcore battler, but I never had problems with Mence. I think removing him, and Latias, is just being a bit dumb. What's next, Scizor, then oh no Dragonite? lol.

 

[Player-4]

What's next, Scizor, then oh no Dragonite? lol.

In all complete honesty, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[CRASHiC]

Dragonite is no where near getting banned, don't be stupid. Even with no other Dragons to copmete with, Dragonite is still kind a ****ty.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

In all complete honesty, it wouldn't surprise me.

Heres the thing. I'm not really doing metagame until B/W (I play 90% Wifi, so my reasoning makes sense as I breed a lot)

But I still like watching how it evolves, even though all I do is Trainer Card right now.

It's like this:

Salamence / Latias are the higher part of the OU food chain. You remove them, SOMETHING ELSE will fill their slot. Now I agree to Garchomp ban, but the rest is ridiculous.

Pokemon will keep filling up the top part of OU that outclasses Weavile and Electivire no matter what you do.

My idea: Wait to B/W and hope it fixes it, maybe make Weavile/Electivire UU or BL.

 

[Player-4]

Don't tell me not to be stupid, take it up with Smogon >_>

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Dragonite is no where near getting banned, don't be stupid. Even with no other Dragons to copmete with, Dragonite is still kind a ****ty.

This is true. The way Smogon is Altaria will be banned out of UU before Dragonite will be of OU. XD

 

[mood4food77]

no one needs to be tested after salamence
dragonite is still a good poke, he's just too slow to be truly "broken"

if cressy didnt have a ****ty typing, we wouldn't be having this discussion
like she has everything needed to be a dragon killer but her recovery move is screwed over by SS and being part psychic means she's weak to pursuit, in which 2 of the top 3 pokes kill her pretty easily

 

[CRASHiC]

Salamence / Latias are the higher part of the OU food chain. You remove them, SOMETHING ELSE will fill their slot. Now I agree to Garchomp ban, but the rest is ridiculous.

That's not true at all. Salamence and Latias are without a doubt two of the most powerful sweepers in the game. If you remove them, nothing takes their place. Dragonite is too slow, Scizor is a scout not a sweeper, and no sweeper comes close to the level of those two.

 

[Player-4]

no one needs to be tested after salamence
dragonite is still a good poke, he's just too slow to be truly "broken"

if cressy didnt have a ****ty typing, we wouldn't be having this discussion
like she has everything needed to be a dragon killer but her recovery move is screwed over by SS and being part psychic means she's weak to pursuit, in which 2 of the top 3 pokes kill her pretty easily

Part Psychic? She's pure Psychic lol.

 

[UltiMario]

When they give Cressy Wish in Gen V

who will be laughing.

Cressy, that's god**** who.

 

[Riddle]

Because of what they ban and allow? You get rid of Latias after testing her on Suspect and allowing her. She is not hard to handle by any means, Smogonites just don't wanna think and put a little effort into their game and so they scream to ban something giving them problems.

They tested and approved Manaphy only to ban her again in like 2 weeks for crying out loud.

They put Deoxys-S back into Ubers because he could get rocks off 100% of the time? I can't really remember the reason why he got put back on the shelf but it was something dumb.

It won't be long before they test something stupid like Rotom forms just because they're one of the most OU Pokemon and will "centralize the meta-game". That's one of my main problems with Smogon, but I didn't come here to turn this into an argument or Smogon debate, just to comment on Mence so lets keep it that way.

Edit:

God**** Tery

Why does this make the metagame worse?

You guys and your slippery slope =/. Smogon isn't filled with morons. They are all a a lot better at pokemon than us. And you still haven't given me YOUR criteria for banning.

Everyone in this thread needs to answer this question:

Why do you think banning things leads to a worse metagame? Is it the principle of banning that upsets you? Do you find a Latias/Chomp/Mence -less metagame less fun?

 

[Player-4]

Lol I don't owe you an explanation. To answer your second question, it's the principle behind Smogon's banning, but that's as far as I'll go on the matter.

 

[Riddle]

No you don't owe me an explanation, however your argument is irrelevant if you don't provide one. Convince me that smogon's banning is a bad thing.

 

[Player-4]

No you don't owe me an explanation, however your argument is irrelevant if you don't provide one. Convince me that smogon's banning is a bad thing.

I don't need to convince you because I don't need to prove anything to you, if you can't realize why, like I and most of the smarter players out there have, then that's your problem. I really just don't feel like turning this into a pointless argument because that's all it'll become. I already know you have your opinion set in your mind and I am not changing it, so why bother?

 

[CRASHiC]

Smogon's concsols are made of some of the highest rank players P4.

And yes, you DO have to explain why they are ban or not ban worthy. You haven't done so. You haven't laid out any ban critera, nor have you shown why Smogon's ban critera is wrong other than the fact that you think the pokemon they've banned aren't Uber.

 

[Riddle]

P-4, as Crash said it IS youre responsibility to explain what you have said since you are attacking smogon and their bans. You have yet to do that and until you or someone else does there is no point for this thread. My mind is not made up, you could still convince me, but the way youre going its not going to happen.

And youre comment about the 'smarter' players was dumb and offensive.