The sad, sad tail of Mewtwo

[hamyojo]

Does his tail still have a hitbox?
Does doing his bair make his double jump higher?
Does his tail still peek out of his shield like it did in Melee?

General tail-that-comes-from-the-front discussion or something.

 

[Kink-Link5]

His tail looks quite too large in the trailer, so more than the hitbox change, I'd just like to see it more polished looking at first. I'm super hyped about him, but I can definitely see how he's not fully cleaned up yet, the tail and animations being the most obvious points.

 

[Rikana]

Performing an attack at the peak of your double jump will give your jump a momentum boost.

 

[Shell]

The "700 hours to animate a new character" estimate that we mentioned in the Clone Engine blog post was actually based upon the ~700 hours (!) that it took Haloedhero to animate Mewtwo (but we couldn't outright say that yet). Every single animation has been matched up to Melee from multiple view points for every frame...

We're all pretty happy with how the animations turned out, tail included. While there may be some very minor optimization before 3.0 release, what you see in the trailer is a pretty clear representative of how he'll look upon release.

The model was newly created from scratch by StarWaffle with some help from Nanobuds & Mewtwo2000. The aesthetic is, like all of our new models, meant to fit into the Brawl visual scheme. Like all of the model alterations from Melee -> Brawl it may require a bit of adjustment but overall the praise for it thus far has considerably outweighed any criticism.

 

[GeZ]

I think he looks damn good. Not just a nice recreation but a new model with new animations and aesthetics really does Mewtwo good. Love the effects with the eyes and the changes to front air. Keep it up P:M team!

 

[ph00tbag]

I think the major question from this thread is, does his tail still have a hurtbox that opens him up to really easy punishments?

 

[hamyojo]

I think the major question from this thread is, does his tail still have a hurtbox that opens him up to really easy punishments?

Yeah, that's what I was asking.

I wasn't going to dare question how he lookes aesthetically, which is absolutely amazing. Bravo to everyone who worked on him.

 

[himemiya]

I wish his usmash look like the universe like it did in melee (it didn't look like it in the vid). I'm hyped for m2 overall and will probably main/2n it

 

[Shadow Huan]

yes, that is the first true gameplay question that I have to ask as well. you guys did get rid of the BS hurtboxes on his tail, or at least one of them? as a former tournament mewtwo player, I'd often get hit by things that no other character would get hit by. I even had a Falcon repeat the strange Taj vs SS rematch final knee, complete with the invisible hurtbox

other questions will come when I can get to a computer tomorrow. I will be camping out in this forum for a while I think lol

 

[Shell]

His tail does have hurtboxes but unlike melee they're actually fixed to his tail model properly instead of floating off into space several units away. Because of this hitboxes placed on his tail actually cover his hurtboxes.

 

[Shadow Huan]

it sounds like only half the problem is fixed, but I can't test it so i'll with hold a defenite opinion until I can test it personally.

 

[hamyojo]

His tail does have hurtboxes but unlike melee they're actually fixed to his tail model properly instead of floating off into space several units away. Because of this hitboxes placed on his tail actually cover his hurtboxes.

Thankyouthankyouthankyou!

I have hope!

 

[| Kailex |]

The new model makes him look cute tbh

 

[crabsmack]

The new model makes him look cute tbh

Yeah, the main difference I'm noticing is the eyes being slightly bigger, and the pupil being differently positioned. PM Mewtwo looks much friendlier, cuter. Less alien. I guess that's a preference thing. I'm certainly not going to complain about it, I'm just pumped that Mewtwo has returned, and hopefully the PMBR will release the model so someone could always make a reskin with more menacing Melee eyes.

It seems the Mewtwo eye change might be based on Mewtwo's old vs. new official art. Though, interestingly, old Mewtwo art had slimmer legs, and the new art has more muscular legs. The Smash models are the other way around.

Just thought people might find this interesting.

 

[hamyojo]

Mewtwo has always been a big cutie, but his new eyes are quite a bit more expressive!

Overall, to me, it seemed a lot of his new modeling was meant to give a more soft feel. I think a big part of that was to make him fit with the Brawl style a lot more. Everything's all dark and kinda real-ish in Melee, while everything is more bouncy and cartoony in Brawl. Look at Yoshi as a huuuge example of that, especially moves like bair.

 

[GunBlaze]

His tail does have hurtboxes but unlike melee they're actually fixed to his tail model properly instead of floating off into space several units away. Because of this hitboxes placed on his tail actually cover his hurtboxes.

I LOVE YOU:

 

[Rikana]

That is true hamyojo. Our artists take the Brawl environment into consideration. We wouldn't just slap a model on and use the original texture and call it a day. We use our judgements and see what needs to be changed in order for the character to fit. I'm sure many will agree that Mewtwo feels like he was in Brawl right from the start. The PMBR definitely did an amazing job on portraying the resemblence.

 

[Nguz95]

That is true hamyojo. Our artists take the Brawl environment into consideration. We wouldn't just slap a model on and use the original texture and call it a day. We use our judgements and see what needs to be changed in order for the character to fit. I'm sure many will agree that Mewtwo feels like he was in Brawl right from the start. The PMBR definitely did an amazing job on portraying the resemblence.

Starwaffle is the best. The Mewtwo he did ages ago was great, but this model is even better! Also, props to the man who did the animations. That stuff is impossibly hard to get right.

 

[BJN39]

The real question is, what moves now use glowing eyes? Dat shiz is awesome!

 

[hamyojo]

The real question is, what moves now use glowing eyes? Dat shiz is awesome!

Almost sure: All grabs, including pummel, side b, down b, up b, hover/float thingy he does
Maybe: nair, Shadow Ball, fair, smashes (except up, at least in Melee he closes his eyes for that

 

[Nausicaa]

Question/Statement: Is it just me, or are all of his Tail-attacks (Uair/Bair/Ftilt/Utilt/Dtilt) way too amazing to fathom using them without directly doing so?
lol

Seriously though, his tilts and Uair/Bair are gonna break the game being on a character with that much speed/range. Ivy with Falcon speed. Edit: With permanent Lucario Down-B with an Aura Charge but able to go in every direction too...
lol

 

[NH Cody]

no I could see what RIkana was saying in the other thread when I was watching the footage before. some of mewtwo's defensive weaknesses are still in the game. the tilts were punishable

 

[Nausicaa]

I should hope so, given how big and fast they are in combination with the PM adjustments.
Fun character in Melee to be hyper-active with, and with a solid neutral game for the most part, now even more so. Stoked.

 

[210stuna]

Way better than Mew for sure!

...Oh.

 

[ItalianStallion]

Fun character in Melee to be hyper-active with, and with a solid neutral game for the most part, now even more so. Stoked.

Did you mean that Melee Mewtwo had a solid neutral game?

 

[Nausicaa]

No. With a solid neutral, now he'll be more fun.
lol

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Yea i agree unfortunately his tail attacks still sucks

 

[Shadow Huan]

I don't know what you're talking about his tail attacks are much better

sadly the hurtboxes on the tail attacks are still a huge problem and barely clank

Falcon can still say **** you and knee the bair too =/

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I don't know what you're talking about his tail attacks are much better

sadly the hurtboxes on the tail attacks are still a huge problem and barely clank

Falcon can still say **** you and knee the bair too =/

I mean i still have trouble hitting people with his tail

 

[Man Li Gi]

Mewtwo merely flicks his tail, I knew the hitbox placement would be off... well there is always 3.0b.

 

[Haloedhero]

There is nothing off about hitbox placement. Because he "merely flicks his tail"? I don't even know what you mean by that.

 

[Man Li Gi]

The hitboxes go off into space just like in Melee instead attached. Mewtwo's u-tilt and b-air were prime examples off it in Melee. In Project M, the u-tilt is fine, but the b-air still has issues hitting people.

 

[Haloedhero]

The hitboxes are attached to the tail on those moves in both Melee and PM, actually. His HURTboxes in Melee don't follow his tail as well as they should all the time, but that's not really an issue here. If you're looking at the GIFs in Mewtwo's Melee hitbox data thread, the red trails are the area the hitboxes cover. They cover their immediate area, which is attached to the tail, and a straight line back to where they were on the previous frame.

They are most certainly not just off in space.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I know the color code. Why I say the hitboxes are off is because I keep getting the same issue from Melee: Knee of Justice is somehow touching the supposed intangible area and still does not get touched the b-air's hitboxes. If the hitboxes were properly attached, this issue would not happen. I space my b-airs to get the intangible tip, but still get the same result. Maybe I am just unlucky, but this has happened in the two games Mewtwo has been in.

 

[Haloedhero]

Honestly, I just double checked the hitbox placement on that move, and they cover the entire tail. Unless you've got a screenshot mid bair of the tail passing harmlessly though somebody, I'm going to have to go ahead and imagine that it's an optical illusion where the characters are moving towards each other so fast that it looks like they're touching when they aren't.

The hitboxes only stay in any one place for 1/30 of a second (2 frames in the same spot at 60fps), so it's easy to see how it might look like you should have hit, but he actually got within the area a frame or two later than the tail passed through.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Again, I may just be unlucky or just be getting phantom hits. Oh well, my eyes are just deceiving me.

 

[GeZ]

Don't know what you guys are talking about saying Mewtwo's tail is bad. It's ****ing incredible. Sends at good angles, covers great distance, leads to combos and grabs, you just have to use it like it's a tail and not a sword. It's not a hunk of intangible pain to spear through your opponent, but it can do more than that if you just use it well.

 

[GeZ]

Double posts are cool I guess.