The 'Revamp A Veteran' Thread! This Week: Discussing YOSHI (new rules inside)

[Diddy Kong]

I don't think it's a criminal offense to have a thread like this in here, if it is, please take the legal steps against me as is required by the law.

This is a thread where we discuss possible revamps in each and every veteran character. I have a concept in mind where we can discuss a different character each week or so, but I think each character in Smash has a lot of potential to have a huge moveset overhaul, even the oldest of veterans; which is already sort of confirmed with the inclusion of BotW's Link in favor of Twilight Princess' Link.

Notice how the newcomers in Smash 4 seem to draw farrr more from their source games than the older veterans in Smash Bros., who seem to draw mostly from creative liberty in many cases. For example, compare Samus to Mega Man. Both are primarily projectile users in their source games, Samus only going physical since Metroid Other M, and Samus Returns 3DS, yet Samus only uses 2 projectiles in her Smash incarnations, while Mega Man uses projectiles for even his Jab, Smashes and aerials.

The concept of this thread is therefore to revamp a character more towards their source games, or at least a recent apperance that would grant them drastic different abilities than how the character is currently represented in Smash Bros.

Let's spark up our creative brain cells while we speculate and await our '2018' release of Smash Switch.

Remember: This thread is supposed to be FUN first of all, and not for arguments. Don't go and bash people's ideas cause someone wants a more Oddysey-inspired Mario than you do for example.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Current Moveset Revamp Discussions:

Week One. Discussed between page 1 ~ 2
Week Two. Discussed at page 2.
Week Three. Discussed between page 2 ~ 3

 

[Varia31]

I'm down with discussing a particular veteran every week, yeah. I have plenty to say about Samus. I know that much... lol

 

[NintendoKnight]

I'm down with talking about revamps *COUGHGANONDORFCOUGH*

Let's do it.

 

[Deleted member]

One character per week sounds pretty good to me.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Okay then we'll nominate with each post. The first contender in this new thread is gonna be Mr. Nintendo himself: Mario

I'll update the thread each week. Probably each Sunday.

Let's discuss the possible moveset revamps of Mario till next week

If someone would be so kind as to remind me how to edit the topic title, that'd be great

 

[Deleted member]

I nominate Sonic.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I nominate Sonic.

How about actual contribution?

Maybe I should state that as a rule tho?

Well, from now on it's the rule. :D Mario moveset revamp suggestions gives one the right to nominate.

 

[Deleted member]

How about actual contribution?

Maybe I should state that as a rule tho?

Well, from now on it's the rule. :D Mario moveset revamp suggestions gives one the right to nominate.

Sorry about that.
I have thought about one move in particular - forward throw.
Mario captures his opponent using Cappy for a short time, so he can pretty much do whatever he wants with them.
It's similar to DK's forward throw, except Mario can basically transforms into the character he grabbed for a limited time, which means he can do anything he wants with them until they escape (though he can't grab others, that causes him to release the opponent).
His grab also involves tossing cappy, and he slaps the opponent with cappy for his pummel.

Nominating x5

 

[Varia31]

I also nominate Mario.

I actually have a Final Smash idea. It would be hilarious if you think about it. He uses Cappy. Anyone you hit by throwing Cappy gets possessed. You can jump off stage and then release possession, leaving the opponent in free-fall to fall to their death. lol

 

[NintendoKnight]

Should they replace his dash attack with the roll?

I mean, the baseball slide is cool and all, but that thing is way old... The last time it was seen was Mario 64 DS, in 2004. Good grief, that was 14 years ago. Besides, the roll could give Mario some much needed mobility.

Also, I'd change his forward smash to a sideways hammer swing. It'd have relatively the same hitboxes the Fire Palm has had, but with a hammer. The head is the sweetspot, and the handle/arms area is the sourspot.

(Yes, I know it's Paper Mario in the image)

Also, I need this as either a taunt or a victory animation:

 

[YoshiandToad]

I was thinking it's time to wave goodbye to FLUDD as it's a one time tool in a Mario game from 16 years ago and the second worst selling mainstream Mario game since the transition to 3D...however I'm STUMPED on what you could replace FLUDD with as many of Mario's gimmicks aren't prevalant from one game to the next.

Cappy for example whilst excellent a concept, is most likely never going to appear in a Mario game ever again, and we'll be back at the relevancy issues for Mario yet again.

Galaxy and Mario 64 sold the best, but I can't think of any good gameplay mechanics or power ups that were kept on from that particular game.

Fireballs is fine since it's 1.) the most iconic power up in the Mario series and 2.) carried over through all the games but outside that there's not many abilities Mario keeps for multiple outings.

Any thoughts?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Should they replace his dash attack with the roll?

I mean, the baseball slide is cool and all, but that thing is way old... The last time it was seen was Mario 64 DS, in 2004. Good grief, that was 14 years ago. Besides, the roll could give Mario some much needed mobility.

Also, I'd change his forward smash to a sideways hammer swing. It'd have relatively the same hitboxes the Fire Palm has had, but with a hammer. The head is the sweetspot, and the handle/arms area is the sourspot.

(Yes, I know it's Paper Mario in the image)

Also, I need this as either a taunt or a victory animation:

Great ideas! I love these suggestions, but I would keep the Foward Smash as it is. And maybe change up the Up Smash for a Hammer Attack, as it's a good anti aerial in a way which would make doing the U Smash command a natural reaction. Both the current F Smash and D Smash are too iconic in a way to replace. But a overhead headbut is something that has been added as purely a functional move with no canon source.

The dash attack Mario currently has was never a useful move anyway. Lots of lag on a move barely useful for it's purposes. Much like DK's old dash attack before Smash 4. It would add a certain mobilty and swift offense to Mario's moveset. Which would be useful to his overall kit.

Great contribution! What is your nomination character? (Btw I only count 1 nomination as 1 vote, no point system just once choice).

Sorry about that.
I have thought about one move in particular - forward throw.
Mario captures his opponent using Cappy for a short time, so he can pretty much do whatever he wants with them.
It's similar to DK's forward throw, except Mario can basically transforms into the character he grabbed for a limited time, which means he can do anything he wants with them until they escape (though he can't grab others, that causes him to release the opponent).
His grab also involves tossing cappy, and he slaps the opponent with cappy for his pummel.

Nominating x5

To me this sounds a bit overpowered, but If Mario gets a Oddysey moveset I don't think Cappy would function like that. Just a hat throwing projectile or possibly a grab option. It's an idea yeah, but having the control of your opponent's character is a broken concept in Smash, just only purposeful to run of the egde. Its very situational and not useful in a 1 vs 1 setting.

 

[Deleted member]

To me this sounds a bit overpowered, but If Mario gets a Oddysey moveset I don't think Cappy would function like that. Just a hat throwing projectile or possibly a grab option. It's an idea yeah, but having the control of your opponent's character is a broken concept in Smash, just only purposeful to run of the egde. Its very situational and not useful in a 1 vs 1 setting.

I guess that's true.
I usually don't really take balance into account when I design my movesets,

 

[Diddy Kong]

I was thinking it's time to wave goodbye to FLUDD as it's a one time tool in a Mario game from 16 years ago and the second worst selling mainstream Mario game since the transition to 3D...however I'm STUMPED on what you could replace FLUDD with as many of Mario's gimmicks aren't prevalant from one game to the next.

Cappy for example whilst excellent a concept, is most likely never going to appear in a Mario game ever again, and we'll be back at the relevancy issues for Mario yet again.

Galaxy and Mario 64 sold the best, but I can't think of any good gameplay mechanics or power ups that were kept on from that particular game.

Fireballs is fine since it's 1.) the most iconic power up in the Mario series and 2.) carried over through all the games but outside that there's not many abilities Mario keeps for multiple outings.

Any thoughts?

I always thought Mario Tornado was a cool attack as a concept. Great usage of creative liberty in my opinion. Maybe a new and improved version of Mario Tornado can be used again? Since I don't think many other options are available actually unless it's the Ground Pound, but it would only be a aerial attack.

It's the Double Stomp sort of attack that Mario regulary uses throughout his games to take out stronger enemies. But it's in concept already a similar move to both Yoshi and Bowser's Down B attacks. And we all know those aren't going to be changed ever.

 

[YoshiandToad]

For Mario's Final Smash I'm thinking a replacement since the Mario Finale is...well kind of useless and easy to dodge.

If we're using Odyssey, why not have him take control of a T-Rex via Cappy and play as a realistic dinosaur with a stache for a bit?

My other two ideas would be Invicible Mario and Mega Mario, but Smash items ruined those as options by allowing EVERY character to perform those. Oops!

I wouldn't be opposed to Mario using his hammer more as it's from his very first game, but again; it's a Smash item...

 

[NintendoKnight]

Great ideas! I love these suggestions, but I would keep the Foward Smash as it is. And maybe change up the Up Smash for a Hammer Attack, as it's a good anti aerial in a way which would make doing the U Smash command a natural reaction. Both the current F Smash and D Smash are too iconic in a way to replace. But a overhead headbut is something that has been added as purely a functional move with no canon source.

The dash attack Mario currently has was never a useful move anyway. Lots of lag on a move barely useful for it's purposes. Much like DK's old dash attack before Smash 4. It would add a certain mobilty and swift offense to Mario's moveset. Which would be useful to his overall kit.

Great contribution! What is your nomination character? (Btw I only count 1 nomination as 1 vote, no point system just once choice).

Oh right, a nomination. I'll nominate Luigi.

 

[Wyoming]

Cappy to replace the Cape would make more sense to me. It could work as a projectile and cancel out other projectiles defensively.

The Galaxy Spin should have been his Nair. Obviously his current one is a useful tool to have though so it os a bit hard to remove it for that reason. An arc hitbox would probably just be as good albeit used differently. I entertained this idea since Galaxy was released!

That Odyssey roll would work better as a roll for Mario rather than a dash attack. The difference would be a roll that goes further than his current one.

Mario is a hard character to revamp though since in Snash he has to be the accessible character. His current moveset makes the basics of a platform fighter easy to understand: his fireball is a projectile, cape cwn reflect, super jump punch is your standard recovery with a hitbox to connect for greater effect, and FLUDD is about edgeguarding.

But on another hand, Dr. Mario can do the same thing whilst becoming more unique with changes to Mario tool kit, so eh.

I nominate Zelda.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Cappy to replace the Cape would make more sense to me. It could work as a projectile and cancel out other projectiles defensively.

The Galaxy Spin should have been his Nair. Obviously his current one is a useful tool to have though so it os a bit hard to remove it for that reason. An arc hitbox would probably just be as good albeit used differently. I entertained this idea since Galaxy was released!

That Odyssey roll would work better as a roll for Mario rather than a dash attack. The difference would be a roll that goes further than his current one.

Mario is a hard character to revamp though since in Snash he has to be the accessible character. His current moveset makes the basics of a platform fighter easy to understand: his fireball is a projectile, cape cwn reflect, super jump punch is your standard recovery with a hitbox to connect for greater effect, and FLUDD is about edgeguarding.

But on another hand, Dr. Mario can do the same thing whilst becoming more unique with changes to Mario tool kit, so eh.

I nominate Zelda.

The Star Spin? Well, we still Mario Tornado as his dair, so he doesn't need an identical spin as nair. Maybe just give the tornado that brightly-colored Swooshy effect that it had in Melee? In Sm4sh the swoosh was white and less exaggerated, but perhaps it should be embellished just a tad to make it more eye-catching.

Maybe they should also give his dair that floating effect that Fox's fair has. I think that'd be a nice touch.

I actually really like the cape, it's a legacy ability and the second power-up Mario incorporated into his moveset outside of the fire flower. It's really hard to change that.

However, everyone absolutely loves Cappy, and it seems he needs to be implemented in some way. However, as you mentioned, Mario already has all the necessary moves that both reference his legacy and have a strong function as the basic, All-Around, Starter character.

Mario isn't really a projectile character, and the fireball works well as his projectile as it focuses more on pressure, positioning, and gimping instead of just added distant damage. However, adding Cappy into a move as a projectile can drastically change how Mario plays depending on how it's handled. I think this concept isn't getting the full consideration it deserves.

For instance, when Mario got F.L.U.D.D. it greatly changed how he played. He traded in his super impressive recovery for the ability to catastrophically ruin the recoveries of others. (Also, the hilarious and ridiculous team strategies).

I would like to see FLUDD and Cappy co-exist, if not just for the hyper meta "He's carrying two 3D platformer partners with him" joke.

 

[Deleted member]

This is Mario we're talking about. You know, the guy who's other name is Jumpman, the one from only the most famous platformer ever. As such, he really needs to focus more on, well, platforming. His current moveset is honestly barely representative of this at all, as it's just a holdover from Smash 64 when Sakurai didn't craft movesets with as much of a purpose in mind. That being said, the mobility buffs Mario got in Smash 4 went a long way when it came to improving him as a character and making him more representative of his source material.

Since he's a platforming guy, Mario needs more moves that let him better traverse the stage primarily through jumping around. That's the main objective, while modernizing Mario is secondary. Probably the most obvious and best change to make would be to change his Cape into a Cappy throw. Obviously it wouldn't let Mario possess opponents, that'd be broken and doesn't build towards our goal of building a character that can jump around like nobody's business. With this in mind, Mario would be able to jump off of Cappy by running into him while holding the b button to keep Cappy in place. Without holding the button, Cappy would just act as a weak boomerang. Of course, it wouldn't really work in the air, so you'd have to port over the dive from Odyssey to let him bounce off of Cappy by pressing the attack button. This would improve Mario's recovery and let him get from point A to point B much faster, all while being based off of Odyssey and without boosting run speed. As we're primarily focused on improving Mario's mobility, there's no need to incorporate other Cappy directional throws or the spinning throw.

Since the cape is gone, Galaxy's Star Spin is a nice potential Dair, Nair, or Down Special. This would keep a float stalling move in his arsenal, which does help back up the character concept. Personally, I'd axe FLUDD since it's far more intuitive to make a move that slightly raises a character's vertical position a special rather than an aerial. I'm not sure if the spin could work as a reflector or have a stun effect too, but that's another reason to map it to a special in lieu of the Cape's demise. FLUDD is less effective without the Cape anyway, and it's honestly kind of random as it doesn't really serve to advance the platforming fighter concept. Mario's Dair would have to change though, which is a shame since it's a pretty good move. To keep in line with our motif of improving Mario's aerial mobility, I'd change this to Odyssey's corkscrewing ground pound of sorts, the one activated by fast falling a spinning jump. I chose this over the traditional ground pound since it's more visually distinct from the other divekicks in the game, especially Yoshi's and Bowser's. It would also be faster and weaker than the aforementioned down specials, which is more in line with Mario's character in Smash.

One of the better suggestions I've seen in this thread involves changing Mario's dash attack to a roll, which would be a big improvement over the current slide. The slide kills momentum while the roll doesn't, a big improvement to the overall flow of his moveset which needs to feel a lot smoother. I would like to see an option to cancel the roll with a long jump, but that's too complicated for a dash attack and doesn't really fit in with Smash's principles. However, it's still worth noting.

There are a few other normals that could be changed, but there isn't really a need for it. At the end of the day most of these suggestions are just references that either don't work towards a core concept or aren't in line with Mario's general power level/stats. Anything involving a hammer attack fits one or both of these criteria. Smaller changes like adding a fire effect to his Fair or speeding up his fireball (which would be more in line with 2D Mario gameplay while further differentiating it from Doc's and Luigi's neutral specials) are nice ideas though. While I'm at it, Dr. Mario's Fair needs an electric effect.

I don't have a strong opinion on his Final Smash, so anything to make it less generic like a T-Rex transformation works for me.

Nominating Link. We already know he's probably getting some changes anyway.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Current status with the voting nominations:
1 for Sonic
1 for Link
1 for Zelda
1 for Luigi
1 for Ganondorf

I'll adress the other posts shortly hereafter. I like how creative you guys are here. Remember tho, you got only one vote each week. If none of these characters get a vote from other posters, we'll decide which character we do next in a poll. Your vote remains however, so it's possible to vote for your favorite character next week again and gain a advantage.

Anyway, I really agree with a new dash attack based on Odyssey. It would work similary to a faster Snake dash attack from Brawl I'd imagine.

D Air could also be replaced with the Ground Pound, it's a hugely iconic move for Mario anyway. It would give him a kill move to his kit perhaps, or a otherwise good damaging move.

N Air the Galaxy Spin is a great idea. But with Galaxy being outdated now, I doubt it will happen.

F.L.U.D.D. can also be replaced and feel like that has been overdue. Long overdue much like Link's Gale Boomerang.

Am still not sure how to incorporate Cappy into Mario's moveset however but I am not 100% excited for it either. It would feel much like a new F.L.U.D.D. to me.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Mario's final smash could be the Tanooki suit.

Nominate Kirby

 

[DefinitelyNotSascha]

As Diddy Kong suggested to me in my own post, I will post my changes to Mario here, seems like just the right place for it:

I also have one for Luigi which I didn't yet post here:

I plan on doing more (Wario, Ganondorf, the Kirby-Characters), so stay tuned.

 

[Luminario]

I'm not fond of the idea of Mario gaining another projectile with Cappy since I'm fond of what his current specials do, but I can't deny it's a possibility. If he does gain Cappy in his moveset I'd like to see down smash changed to a toned down version of the orbiting cap spin attack. I still haven't given up hope for the Galaxy Spin too.
Oh and I vote for Zelda.

 

[DefinitelyNotSascha]

I'm not fond of the idea of Mario gaining another projectile with Cappy since I'm fond of what his current specials do, but I can't deny it's a possibility. If he does gain Cappy in his moveset I'd like to see down smash changed to a toned down version of the orbiting cap spin attack. I still haven't given up hope for the Galaxy Spin too.

If they put the Galaxy-Spin in, then they should just give it to Rosalina.

 

[Ghirahilda]

I would love for his Fireballs to move faster and bounce more like they act in the games. Also it would be great to throw two Fireballs consecutively

 

[Quillion]

I know it's a new week, but the only changes I have in mind for Mario are simple:

• Goomba Stomp as d-air.
• Cappy Throw or Spin as Side-B.
• Ground Pound as Down-B.

Definitely like Ghirahilda 's idea of having two consecutive Fireballs, though.

So are we discussing Sonic next? I'll wait and see until we get some ideas.

 

[MrReyes96]

I do like the idea of replacing the FLUDD with Cappy, similar to Falco’s Down Special, and being able to jump off of it too. Or it could replace his cape and use as a reflect.
I hadn’t even considered him having the roll as a new dash either.
As far as other moves, maybe they could add a few more attacks that reference the Mario games.
Maybe the tanooki tail spin as down-air/down smash, slamming his hammer as f-air/b-air, his flying with a cape animation as his up-air, and just various tweaks that give him the feeling of playing a mario game.

I nominate Dark Pit

 

[PeridotGX]

I don't think Mario needs major changes, but I do have some ideas. Replace the Cape with Cappy, who is a projectile that stays put. Another press and Mario jumps on him, getting some extra distance. The cape is side tilt now. Also, FS uses the T-Rex from SMO.

Nominating Kirby

 

[Morbi]

The only issue I have with changing Mario is he maintains the definitive, "I am a basic *****" move-set that beginners are supposed to use. However, with time, Kirby has tried competing with that role, because Sakurai bias. I prefer Kirby used powers from his games, such as his old fire-dash and whatnot, that being said, since he wants his character validated, maybe they can instead opt to make Mario more interesting instead. And to that end, I just want him to be Odyssey based. Luigi can keep the boring stuff.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I feel like Pikablu Pikachu is correct; Mario, as a character and indeed a series is all about mobility and err...well jumping. Mario's mobility options would be the best place to start looking. Cappy in Odyssey does seem to give him a fair few options for staying in the air and reaching new heights...maybe that'd be the best of both worlds?

I was going to nominate Peach as the lack of Super Princess Peach representation is disturbing(Anger is a great mode) but a multi way tie is boring so I'll vote Zelda for now as she's also a hot mess.

 

[Deleted member]

I like most ideas that you guys have given to Mario.

I myself would like to change the Up Special, because now it feels like a basic dragon punch. We could repleace it with a high jump that has high vertical coverage and has a homing property when close to an enemy (basically Mario stomping on enemies) and spikes anyone below him.

I nominate Samus, since i feel that her moveset has aged the worst out of the entire Smash 64 Cast. Samus in her home games is all about shooting and long ranged attacks and most importantly, she attacks with her hand Cannon, and Smash's moveset of Samus is so focused on punches and kicks that it just makes me sad (i hate the Samus Mii Gunner costume because it showcases how much potential was not used on Samus)

 

[Grizzexploder]

Side B- Cap Toss (hold the button to keep it in place, and/or press button again to dive (if button is held, then dive to the cap and bounce on it), and even reflect oncoming projectiles)
Down B- Ground Pound (like Bowser and Yoshi, but Mario has the ability to jump straight up after hitting the ground, or a faster roll attack (his new down tilt), like in Odyssey)
Dash Attack- Dive (with ability to somersault back onto feet when button is pressed again)
Down Tilt- Roll (like Cloud/Mega Man's slide attack down tilts, slower than if done out of Down B)
Neutral Air- Mario Tornado or the Star Spin from Galaxy (which would be exactly the same as current neutral air, but different aesthetically)
Down Air- Goomba Stomp (like Ganondorf or Falcon's) or Cape Dive Bomb (from SMW, where Mario pulls out his cape and plunges downwards)
Final Smash- Mega Mushroom (Mario becomes super large and stomps on everyone, either knocking them back or leaving them stuck in the ground and then being knocked back), or Rainbow Mario (Mario gets a Starman, goes rainbow and becomes faster, knocking back anyone he runs into), or T-Rex (Mario captures a T-Rex and T-Rex goes berserk, knocking back everything it hits)

 

[Varia31]

Seconded on the nomination of Samus.

And yeah, that Mii Gunner... Several of its moves feel like they could have been slapped onto Samus and they would have worked fine.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Since we haven't started talking about anyone else yet, can I still squeeze in my two cents for Mario?

He's perfectly fine as it is to me, moveset wise. He represents what he was always meant to be; the all rounder, the gimmick free cool kid who can do a bit of everything, and can fit into many scenarios seamlessly. He just feels, well, like Mario. I will share a few mild, insignificant changes, most for balance and some stuff I'd just like to see, to help him fit the all-rounder mold even better.

In general, I would tone down his frame data a bit, especially on his KOing options. While he should have good frame data, it's a bit TOO fast (some of the fastest in the game, and it makes him feel a bit more like a rushdown character in some situations, which isn't how I think Mario should be). Up smash and up air in particular get the biggest nerfs (Up smash's FAF increased from 40 to 44, making it less spammable, and up air's start up is increased from 4 frames to 5, making two of his more ridiculous tools a bit more down to earth). To compensate, Mario's KOing power is boosted a bit, with a few more kill moves and having a bit more ease killing. To me, the things that needed to be adjusted the most for Mario's core design were his speed and power, the former for being too prevalent, and the latter being inconsistent and surprisingly low, which just doesn't feel like Mario to me. So with those two changes, his moveset is perfect to me. He now has a bit more average speed, and launching power on the higher end of the middle class, finishing his ideal character mold to me. This models how in the Mario spin offs, he is the all-rounder, but his strength stat is a bit higher by comparison (along with his agility). I'll post a full list of exact damage/knockback/speed alterations in the Mario threads once I determine all the exact values.

I'd also like to see a few more moves of his given fire properties. Like, personally, I'd add a flame effect to his up tilt and forward aerial.

One last thing; If this is the Smash with Project M esque alternates as some people have theorized, then I would personally prefer this underrated design to show up as Mario's alt:

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Weekend at Bernie's Mario.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Since we haven't started talking about anyone else yet, can I still squeeze in my two cents for Mario?

He's perfectly fine as it is to me, moveset wise. He represents what he was always meant to be; the all rounder, the gimmick free cool kid who can do a bit of everything, and can fit into many scenarios seamlessly. He just feels, well, like Mario. I will share a few mild, insignificant changes, most for balance and some stuff I'd just like to see, to help him fit the all-rounder mold even better.

In general, I would tone down his frame data a bit, especially on his KOing options. While he should have good frame data, it's a bit TOO fast (some of the fastest in the game, and it makes him feel a bit more like a rushdown character in some situations, which isn't how I think Mario should be). Up smash and up air in particular get the biggest nerfs (Up smash's FAF increased from 40 to 44, making it less spammable, and up air's start up is increased from 4 frames to 5, making two of his more ridiculous tools a bit more down to earth). To compensate, Mario's KOing power is boosted a bit, with a few more kill moves and having a bit more ease killing. To me, the things that needed to be adjusted the most for Mario's core design were his speed and power, the former for being too prevalent, and the latter being inconsistent and surprisingly low, which just doesn't feel like Mario to me. So with those two changes, his moveset is perfect to me. He now has a bit more average speed, and launching power on the higher end of the middle class, finishing his ideal character mold to me. This models how in the Mario spin offs, he is the all-rounder, but his strength stat is a bit higher by comparison (along with his agility). I'll post a full list of exact damage/knockback/speed alterations in the Mario threads once I determine all the exact values.

I'd also like to see a few more moves of his given fire properties. Like, personally, I'd add a flame effect to his up tilt and forward aerial.

One last thing; If this is the Smash with Project M esque alternates as some people have theorized, then I would personally prefer this underrated design to show up as Mario's alt:

Super Mario Odyssey has got you covered:

I feel it works better in Odyssey, anyway.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Super Mario Odyssey has got you covered:

I feel it works better in Odyssey, anyway.

I knew about it's return in Odyssey, actually. That's where I first saw the outfit.

Anyways, I finished making my personal adjustments to Mario's attacks, and the post containing them is right here.

As for the next character we'll discuss, I want to go down in order of original inclusion in the series, so I vote Donkey Kong.

 

[DJ3DS]

I'd like to throw in a few ideas. Namely, I think introducing Cappy is not a bad idea, but shouldn't be done at the expense of FLUDD or Cape. How do we do this? My proposed changes are as follows:

Up B - Super Jump Punch -> Rocket Nozzle: Let's be honest - the super jump punch is the least inspired special of Mario's. I propose replacing it with the FLUDD Rocket Nozzle from Super Mario Sunshine. This would operate like a single directional Hydro Pump from Greninja, giving Mario a similar recovery and retaining the ability to use the water to gimp recoveries.

Down B - FLUDD -> Cape: Cape is a reflector. Most reflectors are down specials. this isn't an important change, except any kind of cappy throw you do makes more sense as a Side B.

Side B - Cape -> Cappy Throw. Mario throws his cap as a boomerang. If tapped twice, the cap stays in place as a rotating hitbox which Mario can jump off of - but a midair leap does not exist for balance reasons, and Mario must use his midair jump to get an extra jump from this during recovery. If the cap is hit by an opponent, it returns to Mario. As a mechanic, this gives Mario a buffed recovery option, but a telegraphed one that an opponent can cancel if they react sufficiently well.

 

[DefinitelyNotSascha]

The super jump punch is the least inspired special of Mario's.

I would not at all say that. Jumping is the one thing Mario is known for. And the punch part comes from punching blocks from underneath. I'd actually say it's the most canon move Mario has.