Where in Smash Bros have we ever seen the “narrative” “detail” events? The Master Hand fight? You’re stretching here. Nothing in Smash Bros “detailed” the Master Hand fight in any context. The selected character fighting the Master Hand was blank and vague and existed only for a final boss, nothing more. Those book-end cut-scenes did not detail anything in the game beyond giving you fun and flashy introduction and transitions. They did not start a narrative. There was no narrative.Anything that describes events, real or fictional, is a narrative.
Whether they have little substance or not does not change this fact.
It describes events, albeit, with no depth or character development, but still, that's a narrative.
Again, narrative is just detailing of events, real or fictional.
What events? The chosen character fights the master hand, that's an event, it's presentation is a narrative or part of a narrative.
The lack of plot complications and other similar devices add to the narrative, but they are not required for one to exist.
Again, you are confusing a GOOD NARRATIVE with a NARRATIVE.
Again, confusing good narrative with narrative. There is a detailing of events, obviously with very little background information, but that means it's a bad narrative, not that it's inconsistent.
Again, you are being far too strict in your definition of narrative.
It establishes it's narrative through cutscenes and battles, and in part of establishing it's narrative it explained why the external narratives bear no relevance.
No, when you have nothing, you do not even have consistency, because even consistency is something. And explain, in detail, with examples, how there’s consistency with the non-existent internal narrative of Smash Bros, especially after you had already established how ignoring external narratives somehow bypasses a very important middle step and establishes internal consistency. Do explain it, please. In detail. Point by point. Each little internal construction by each little internal construction. Since you know it so well, it will be easy for you.Lack of substance doesn't prove inconsistency, inconsistency only exists when there is a direct contradiction, and consistency exists where there is nothing.
Because a narrative actually says something. A cut-scene that just drops a random character on a sandy beach is a transition from Point A to Point B. That cut-scene is simply conveying the information that this is the next place you’re fighting. That is not a narrative, no matter how you want to dumb down the word.You seem to be redefining narrative to have some basis in quality...
No, I think I’m getting it quite well, actually. You’re avoiding an invitation to engage in a perfectly reasonable debate over inconsistency versus consistency, again clinging to this notion where the topic is automatically internally consistent, when in fact, if you were a true philosopher or at the very least, a true student of philosophy, you would know that nothing at the beginning of a discussion is ever certain, and that it’s illogical for you to claim Brawl is internally consistent, especially when the discussion is looking to arrive at one conclusion: consistency or inconsistency. Brawl is not inherently consistent, my friend. And so far, whenever pressed—not even pressed, just requested, you fall back on the same thing you’ve been saying the entire time, which is still just as empty and meaningless now as it was four pages ago because you refuse to go into any kind of revelatory details beyond “It’s based on CONTRADICTIONS.” What do you have against engaging in some good ole-fashioned brain-picking?You seem to be missing the point...
Internal inconsistency is based on CONTRADICTIONS. LACK THEREOF means that something is internally consistent.
How the hell do I analyze works? I’ll make it easy for you: Anyone who doesn’t use their own creations and just shoves completely unrelated, copyright-protected characters into a story are hacks who do not deserve any respect until they learn something. I know that’s mean. I’m sure it makes me look like a bad guy. But it’s still the truth. And you’re right. There is more to literary analysis. But fan-fiction is not literature. And yes, that makes me sound like a lit-snob of the worst degree. But it’s still the truth. And any lit teacher/student worth anything will kill the urge to be sympathetic and tell you how it really is. Cause they’re not doing you any favors otherwise.You seem dead-set on defining everything based on quality, but seem unwilling to grant any of the accepted attributes that define when something has quality. And then you've defined quality as "not fanfiction" since being fanfiction is the only criteria you've given for being bad.
What is wrong with this picture? How the hell do you analyze works? Do you toss them into little bins saying, "fan-fiction" and "not-fanfiction" and then cart off all of the former to be used in schools with the latter being sent to the dumpster.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's something more to literary analysis.
I’m just going to write this off as a complete joke that doesn’t even get a chuckle.The fact that they were from ocarina of time doesn't make them externally consistent.
Would Link suddenly turning into Ganondorf be consistent with the source material, I mean, they're both from Ocarina of Time, right?
Sure, they're the same person (Link and Young Link), but that doesn't mean that you can keep something that's age specific as an eternal feature of the character? Do you still play with teething rings? No, I don't think so.
So those items were age specific, by allowing both to use one, they violated OoT's consistency.
Yeah, but it’s consistent with the template GAME.It's inconsistent with the CHARACTER, not the item, the character.
Then say they’re from the Legend of Zelda on NES. Don’t say “No, same as pulling the Silver arrows from a Link to the Past isn't inconsistent.”*Possible Spoilers*
It's not incorrect attribution, unless you decided to skip dragging that gigantic bomb to the Temple you would've come across the silver arrows in A Link to the Past, they simply didn't debute there, and I never pretended they did, i simply mentioned that they were in Link to the Past.
*end possible spoilers*
Funny, because I had used the term correctly. And yes, I do love my distractions. But I throw a curveball in to keep myself amused before anything. Plus, given your record here, throwing around Straw Man Fallacy (which we both know was bull when you tossed it in my direction), you’ve been mis-using a few ideas, and so it was perfectly reasonable to expect your dickishness.As for ad hominem... learn some basic rhetoric, Ad Hominem fallacies are distractions committed by one of the parties in the debate in order to win by making something irrelevant seem relevant. If you think that randomly throwing irrelevant topics out as if they had some meaning to the question at hand, then I guess there's not much of a point of discussing things with you.
And as I've noticed, you do LOVE your distractions.
Then stop going on about them.As for the silver hours [arrows?], how does that change things, we have already established that one attribute, the overall look of the character, was OoT, thus whatever the source material they should be harmonized in the interests of asthetics.
Smash’s character selection is traditional fighting game to the core. Always has been from the very beginning. It’s breaking its own rules now.Genre classifications do not make something internally inconsistent.
The game does not establish as it's rules that it's following all the traditions of fighting games. In fact, from the very beginning smash was never a traditional fighting game.
Internal inconsistency is conflicts with it's own rules, not the rest of the games in it's category.
Examples, please.By lacking contradictions, it's that simple.
Anything that has no contradictions is consistent with it.
Smash Bros is a bit more related than “not a fanfiction of that work or anything else which directly utilizes the source material.” Also, I don’t care if you left it intentionally vague to cover your ***. That doesn’t change the fact it was lousy.In other words, not a fanfiction of that work or anything else which directly utilizes the source material. It wasn't lousy, it was intended so it could refer to a wide variety of different things.
A kid with ADD being distracted by something shiny is nothing more than a kid with ADD who shouldn’t be allowed to work backstage. The “suspension” you describe was involuntary stupidity and general malaise when it comes to environmental awareness rather than the active decision-making process of “willing suspension of disbelief.”"suspending" means to stop temporarily, inattention can cause one to stop doing something just as easily as an active effort. If one suspends pulling on a rope because they saw something shiny and wanted to pick it up, they did not intend to stop pulling on the rope, they intended to do something else, hence a suspension not directly willed. It still has an agent, but that doesn't mean it must be willing.
Oh, “willing suspension of disbelief” means something. “Suspension of disbelief” is a joke.Ah yes, so who decided this, because I know a fair number of academics who love the term.
You may have decided that the term means nothing, but to academia it means something, so, how about not?
No. If the work is that good, then belief and disbelief never even were a factor, because that individual never had to evaluate what he or she was reading, and therefore never had to make that decision. Lack of action is not an action, by the way.When the observer reads a story that is very well-written and doesn't have to do it actively, it is still suspension of disbelief. That same person is still suspending disbelief, actions made through inattention (or in this case, a lack of an action) are still actions.
No, they enjoy Harry Potter because they’ve all had lobotomies. Rowling is a terrible writer with a lousy ear for dialogue and an even worse feel for half-decent action.I'll bet you there are all of 26 people who believe the premise of Harry Potter, yet when reading the book, they do not question, they suspend their disbelief by inattention to the fact that this cannot happen in the real world.
That site is a joke. Show me where you actually get your definitions.That said, I will provide a source for my definition: http://www.mediacollege.com/glossary/s/suspension-of-disbelief.html
You didn’t present relevant information. If you really wanted to drive the Silver Arrows point home, you should have gone back to the NES. If you say anything about the plot of Slaughterhouse Five but leave out the big tidbit of the novel…in a discussion about literary analysis/theory…you’re utterly leaving out relevant information. PM me with what’s really going on in Slaughterhouse Five.Like with the Silver arrows you assumed that I didn't know something because I chose to present only the relevant information, instead of providing an examination of the entire thing.
It's called jumping to conclusions, and that seems to be an exercise in this.
Fan-fiction doesn’t exist. It’s a subculture of the socially inept who don’t know a god**** thing about writing.Again, not the point... You are continuing to confuse the quality of the work with it's existence.
“I'm sorry, but fan-fiction is no different from any other work of the medium with the exception that it's generally much poorer in quality and the person did not create the original work.” So do you just throw out these “I never said that” bits for fun or what?Except I never said that fanfiction was no different from any other work of the medium, I said that it is poorer in quality in general, and pretty much stated that you pointed out why this is true.
Yeah, there is. The writers are ****ing hacks who never learned because nobody slapped them upside the head and told them to shape the hell up and stop writing that trash. Things aren’t getting better because nobody knows what good writing is anymore, and garbage like Harry Potter doesn’t help things, either, because it reads like a third-grader’s short story.Simply put, THERE IS A REASON WHY FANFICTION IS BAD.
Translation: fan-fiction is bad because it’s fan-fiction.
I don’t care all that much. My goal is to exploit the weak and dying. And if a few morons happen to get bumped off along the way, so be it.As a final thought: As far as literary analysis goes, I don't think we disagree conceptually, as far as I can tell, this is an issue of defining terms, we're used to using different terms or applying more open or limited definitions to terms, as such, if we can agree on terms, I think the only substance of our disagreement will be the Sheik argument.