The quintessential question on wavedashing...

[TehTooya]

So... I started playing SSBM since day one, and would say I am on the upper end of the players (but by no means expert.) For the past several years I used Falco as a player, merely because I liked the "feel" (that probably doesn't make sense...), but recently, I have taken a likening to Fox, and from "research" (yay youtube and this forum), I have worked together enough combos to make all my friends have no choice but to call me a dirty hooker

But my big question is, wavedashing. I have up until now been quite successful at playing without wavedashing, in fact the first time I had heard about WDing was last year (I am now a soph in college). So, WDing is not entirely second nature, and I typically get screwed over when attempting it. Without it, I have done well in tourneys, and just well against my friends in general (minus one type of player I met in a tourney...)


So the main points behind my questions are, how much attention should I put into wavedashing? I know the shine blind combo, and I can combo decently well with simply jab/smashing opportunistically, but by how much am I limitting myself by not knowing how to wavedash? And, for anyone who has been playing the game for a few years who suddenly went into wavedashing, do you have any comments on how exactly to do it consequetively?

Another question is peach. Although the single instance where I played very talented peach players, I was using my falco, to my surprise I got 4 stocked with little difficulty. I now use fox, but does anyone have any general advice on peach?

Cheers,
~TehTooya

 

[Fletch]

Read the guides here, WDing is an absolute necessity for Fox, if only just to waveshine. Surprising that you were successful playing Falco well without WDing, as he might need it as much or more than Fox does.

As for Peach, she's the easiest to waveshine combo in the game pretty much, you can pull infinites on her and just remember to abuse the usmash and uair as well, and she'll die at early percentages... Just don't hold down a lot.

 

[SCOTU]

you'll absolutely need it for waveshining. It'll only take a week or so to master. the stand alone wavedash isn't all that important: things like dash dancing and wavelanding are more useful (i ***** the hell out of wavelanding). You'll want to learn to do it to let you combo better.

 

[GOTM]

yeah i mean there are pros that dont really use it. masashi barely will shine combo and stuff, but thats why theres plenty of fox's better than him. use it, you'll get better after you get worse. trust us.

 

[Winged Messiah]

Don't even pay attention to the "pros" that don't WD, they're only limiting themselves.

 

[KrnMint_00v]

just learn to WD. it pretty much opens up doors to new combos. i'm not gonna lie though. it does take a while to get down. but with practice you'll the hang of it easily. IMO, Fox should be an easier character to WD with, so his waveshine is also decently easy.

 

[TehTooya]

I don't intend to incite any sort of flame, but what is the standard for "pros"? My version of a pro of someone who has dedicated the time to learn all the ins and outs of the game, knows everything there is to know about timing of other characters, can play mind games, and of course knows about there own characters?

I of course, am going to spend a great deal of time learning how to wavedash, because I do intend to learn additional tricks to step up my game, but is wave dashing really that much of a stepping stone that separates pro and casual gamer? If a player has been playing for years, can actually beat pros through raw knowledge of timing and reflexes, and are not aware of these techniques (much different from choosing not to work with the techniques mind you...), wouldn't that constitute that individual as a "pro"?

Perhaps my question is more on what are the defining features of a pro. My thought is the better player will usually be the one who has played longer and has a better understanding of the workings of the game, than to... saying someone who has played the game for "some" time, but knows how to work with the techniques...

Any thoughts?

And as a quick question to veer away from the can of worms I may have opened for myself... when wave dashing, I quickhop, quickly airdodge into the ground, but by that airdodge I merely tap the dodge button into the ground as not to be using shield for my attempt to perform another wd, ... right? @_@

 

[KrnMint_00v]

I dunno what qualifies a person to be a pro. but I'd say anyone who does well in tournaments, and gets paid is a pro.

 

[Onvoloper]

Isn't pro where you do it for a living? Like pro footballers in the afl or world cup if you ain't Aussie, and pro wrestlers in WWE or something...But I spose pro in this would just mean someone really good who participates in tourneys.
As for the wavedashing, I suck at it too...I would say you don't absolutely need it to be good, but without it you are limiting yourself, so you won't be the best without it.

 

[Greene Archer]

Pros make money at tournaments. Nuf said. My personal thought on skill levels: Not caring about advanced techs is casual. Knowing some advanced techs, but not using them well is noob. Knowing the techs, being able to do them consistently, but getting beat all the time regardless is a scrub. Above scrub is average, and above average is pro.

Your idea is correct, as long as you don't leave the ground. leaving the ground is a triangle hop, which is sloppy and slower.

 

[TehTooya]

Can you simply use a regular hop rather than a short hop? Or does short hopping it make it easier? (aside from triangle hopping)

 

[Greene Archer]

as long as you airdodge before you get height, it doesn't matter what jump it is. Both the short hop and full hop have the same rising speed, I believe the short hop window is based on how high you rise for the short hop, so as long as you release the button before you reach short hop height, you short hop.

Try to do it with shorthopping, as it will make your fingers adjust to speed, which is essential for fox.

 

[technomancer]

There is no way to tell whether or not you're shorthopping or not if you're doing it right. I don't hold the button down because there isn't a need.

 

[TehTooya]

I actually have two new questions (sorry I am hijacking this thread again..)

In regards to shining, who can't you shine (who is currently attempting to recover), or who has unique exceptions that have to be taken into account? Certain characters I find difficult to shine and I am curious if its just a poor choice to attempt shining them off the course. Peaches umbrella seems to trump me well, falcon/ganon seem to sodomize me, and follow up by yelling yes after having their way with me... And perhaps there is a guide that answers this, if so can someone direct me in the right direction? Thank you..

Also... when someone is waiting on the ledge, what is the most opportune way to counter them (besides waiting out, where with some situations may be necessary...)

 

[Greene Archer]

peach's umbrella is difficult, just try to go from under her, shine her, let the shine fall normally, and recover. Cfal and ganondorf, just shine them after they can't hit you.

As for edgegames, just watch them carefully and space so you can hit them whether they roll, jump, stand, or waveland, and avoid any attacks.