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The Power of a Community, and Where We Are

Papapaint

Just your average kind of Luigi.
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Williamsburg, VA
As it is a necessary fashion, I will precede this post by saying THERE ARE SEVERAL THREADS FOR THE MELEE VS. BRAWL DEBATE. DO NOT BRING THAT CRAP INTO THIS THREAD. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A GAME'S COMPETITIVE VALUE.

This is the first article in a potential series of articles.

Competitive video game has a very rough-and-tumble growth. When video games were first created, they were meant as nothing more than time-wasting quarter-eaters, games where people could mindlessly enjoy themselves. After a little while, a very small community of arcade-goers grew, and then the single biggest revolution in gaming community history occured:

The High Score List

Many people would probably argue that this was the biggest step forward in competitive gaming. That may be true. But more than that, it formed the first gaming communities. People would practice and play and share (or keep secret) their knowledge, while others would watch and challenge, learn and comment, and work to have their initials in that #1 spot. There was no fame in this. People would not know who "ARN" was, or the real identity of "PBK". The only people who would know resided within the community itself.

Over time, this lead to challenges. Communities would take their champion and pit him against another locality's champion. They'd compete head to head, with 20-30 onlookers. It was here that the development of individual communities was evident; different styles were clear, different methods. Some were riskier, some were more careful, but in the end, everyone would learn something from the experience. The individual communities would retain their styles and still walk away having learned a few new tricks.

The communities didn't consist solely of that 30-year old bearded guy who could make the Mrs. Pac-Man arcade game glitch out by "beating it", or the 20-year old "Space Invader" champions. It also included the young kids who would go watch--perhaps never hoping to get to that play level, but watching, appreciating, admiring, maybe learning. The communities would generally do their best to be receptive to the new, young members, and welcome them (even if only as spectators).

With the advent of in-home video game systems, these communities saw a massive decline. Video games truly did lose their competitive value. Once computer games started to develop faster than console games, the idea of an "arcade" became even more obsolete. It wasn't until the advent of computer networks that communities started to form.

Enter: Doom

Doom was perhaps the first real networking computer game success. People could deathmatch against one another... in their offices. Small communities were built around this, but competitive gaming didn't really pick back up until

The Internet

A widely available internet changed gaming forever. People could discuss games online, set up tournaments, find other people, share emails, set up forums, etc. Suddenly, you could learn about something someone halfway across the world did to a game. There were scoreboards online where you could put your entire name... not just three ambiguous initials. Competitive gaming, and the communities built around it, re-emerged stronger than ever.

Smash

The whole fighting game community is possibly one of the most interesting and exclusive communities in the gaming world. Take, for example, FPS games. Because of their online system, anyone can learn. Anyone can pick up Counterstrike, get trashed in a few rounds, and then kind of settle down around a level at which they are comfortable. Maybe that's a low level, and they keep working to get better, but aren't too concerned with it. That may well be the case. But they can still be part of that community; they can still learn, they can still contribute, and they will frequently be accepted with open arms... probably not by a heavily competitive server, but certainly by most servers.

Fighting games, however, are almost always restricted to in-person competition. This has led to a community very much mirroring the original communities. Groups of people would play, find their best players, and have them compete with other best players. The internet allowed this to happen much more easily, but also provided in interesting step further. The community began to exclude anyone who wasn't one of the best... unintentionally. It wasn't malicious; it was simply that the top players would spend their time getting better with other top players. There was also no real reason for new players to watch or learn, because they could simply go home and play the game themselves at whatever level they wished.

As such, games like Street Fighter, Smash, Tekken... all these games were built on communities of solely competitive players. This doesn't mean that competitive players don't have fun, but it does mean that it's hard to be a part of the community without being a competitive player, as you once could. "Right" and "Wrong" ways to play were formed within the community. Bans were made. Changes to games, bugs, and exploits were found. This applies to all competitive fighting games.

However, Smash is quite possibly unique among fighters in that it is, at its core, a party game. Not only is the community made out of top players, it's made out of people who pushed it beyond its limits, and created a community out of it.

Brawl

For some reason, Brawl has shattered our community. Fire is slung in all directions. People haven't come together to share their ideas so much as argue about them. Everyone thinks their way is the right way. This does, in fact, apply to very nearly everyone. Open minds have become less common. We, as a community, have fallen apart. There is no way to debate this. New discoveries (and old ones, for that matter) are met with constant opposition and debate. New users are insulted before being welcomed, and old users are insulted for being settled in the community.

We need to understand that our community is shifting. Perhaps not permanently. Perhaps not for long. But everyone needs to calm the f*ck down. We're all at each other's throats, and this 9-year-old community is on the verge of collapsing because of everyone's tension. We need to open up, try new things, try old things, and be more welcoming on all fronts.

Use this thread as you wish. Use it to rant, use it to concede. Use it for some of your best memories of the smash community, or some of your worst. Talk about where you want this community to go, and where you think it is.

Let's make a community again.
 

A2xA

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
39
Great Post that's all I've got to say. There is really nothing we can do to change brawl though.
 

Eriatarka

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
229
Location
Dublin, Ireland
I've not got Brawl yet (grrr Nintendo Europe) so I don't know how great or terrible it is, but everyone who loves this game seems to take any criticisms about the game almost personally, which isn't helping whatsoever. 'Brawl is/isn't competitive' seems to be the wost offender for arguements, a declaration of your view either way instantly results in flaming. I don't think it's a threat to the community though, people can only get confrontational over subjects like floaty-ness and competitiveness for so long before everyone gets tired of reacting to such issues and just settles down to enjoy Brawl for what it is (or go back to Melee, if you prefer.).

All arguements and flaming have a strong mutual love of the Smash series at their core though, and while that love of Smash exists in everyone here the community will continue to thrive.
 

LouisLeGros

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
403
Location
Seattle
Yes there certainly is a lot of tension in our community at the moment. However, our reputation towards new comers is far from a new thing.


I think one of the big reasons for what is happening is that, excuse the use of this phrase, people need to "lurk moar." New users need to gain a familiarity with the community and get a basic understanding of it. When they come in ignorant to these things is when they get everyone frustrated. To them it may just be a misunderstanding, but to the people who have been settled it usually comes off as trolling/ignorance and is thus not really welcomed. These negative responses that are garnered seems to upset the new user who then becomes even less willing to understand the way things are in this forum.


It isn't like new users aren't welcomed, I've never been flamed here because of being new and I've only started posting recently. However, I took a lot of time to lurk the forums to read important threads (rules, FAQs, etc) and try to get a basic understanding of the community and its expectations of its users.
 

ROOOOY!

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
3,118
Location
Lincolnshire, England.
NNID
Gengite
3DS FC
5456-0280-5804
Eloquently put. I agree that everyone needs to just relax.
It's not going to happen though, people are still going to argue about tripping and other trivial things.
 

Mann

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
836
Location
Campbell, CA + Tuscon, AZ
I don't see how Brawl has 'shattered' the smashboards community. People who look down on Brawl will still play it. Some who think Brawl is the best, can still play Melee.

The problem is when people keep creating threads that keep bringing the topic back up.
 

Eggm

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
5,178
Location
Neptune, NJ
This game is a terrible kiddy party game that bad melee players or new players who do'nt know any better make it out to be the best thing ever cause its new, and ruined the melee community. This sucks.

Edit : I know there are exceptions to this rule as there is to every rule, however you are in the minority, and I was speaking in general.
 

DraginHikari

Emerald Star Legacy
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
2,821
Location
Omaha, NE
NNID
Draginhikari
3DS FC
4940-5455-2427
Switch FC
SW-7120-1891-0342
This game is a terrible kiddy party game that bad melee players or new players who do'nt know any better make it out to be the best thing ever cause its new, and ruined the melee community. This sucks.

Edit : I know there are exceptions to this rule as there is to every rule, however you are in the minority, and I was speaking in general.
The problem is this type of attitude is no more helpful then the ones you claim ruin things.
 

Break

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
122
Location
UCSB
Gai is the greek god of nature.....
No. Gaia is traditionally considered the Mother Goddess or Great Goddess. She does however personify the Earth.

You know why it is that intelligent threads full of truthiness , like this one, are the ones that everyone tries to ignore? Because they can't handle the truth!
 

Mann

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
836
Location
Campbell, CA + Tuscon, AZ
This game is a terrible kiddy party game that bad melee players or new players who do'nt know any better make it out to be the best thing ever cause its new, and ruined the melee community. This sucks..
Point


I wish more people would read.
Fixed.

One can not simply ignore Melee and continue to talk about Brawl's competitive value.
 

Papapaint

Just your average kind of Luigi.
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Williamsburg, VA
People can argue. But people need to realize that the community is born out of knowledge and a mutual love for the game, not personal attacks and arguments about belief.

Take religion. Many religions encourage debate within themselves--Judaism being a perfect example. Many Jews love to discuss the essential nature of Judaism. Something that seems to surprise most people is that it's possible to be Jewish without being of the Jewish faith. There's a community that revolves around mutual discussions and knowledge--while many Jews differ on opinion, they can all feel a love for Judaism as a whole.

But then take Christianity, which has split into thousands upon thousands of sects because of arguments of belief. There is very little shared knowledge within Christianity. This is not an insult to Christians, simply an example. It's very difficult to identify a "Christian" community.
 

Chaosblade77

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
1,958
I hear Sakurai ran a bomb factory, and he spent over two years making a very powerful explosive device to annihilate those whose views differed from his, even if it meant taking a few of those who agreed with him in the process.

I heard it was a "Smash Bros" game or something... but who knows for sure.
 

Spellman

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
623
Location
Brickway
I'm not going to look at you guys any differently after this is all over for the most part. It's one subject of many, and I don't think anyone was out to offend anyone else, everyone just needs to vent about what makes them mad.

I'm stubborn in my own respect as I am with anything else I believe in just as everyone else here is. I don't think it makes anyone a bad person for sticking up for what they believe in.
 

LavisFiend

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,713
Location
Alexandria, Louisiana
The thing is though, that when you TRY to offer ways to help the community, they for the most part will not bite and some will just lash out at you for it.

I made a large guide detailing a new way of using pikmin management, and although some responses were positive, and some were constructive with their disagreement, there were a few who were pretty bitter because of it.

Truthfully, I don't even know why I try anymore. I am this close to just ghosting and being done with it.
 

Senshuu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
447
Location
TN, USA
I wish I had ever known this community as anything more than it is now.
I thought this place would be a lot more inviting and enthusiastic than it is.
 

SiD

Smash Master
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
3,053
Location
Sacramento, CA
The problem is almightypancake, is that alot of people straight up hate Brawl. When Melee came out, everyone loved it. Most unanimously agreed it was better than 64. And even more important, the community was oh so very tiny at that point, that it just grew on Melee.

Now, we don't have that luxury. The community has a distict split in opinion. As a whole, I doubt we'll ever be as tight as the community once was. I just wish I was in the Melee seen for longer.

But I'm glad some are willing to try to keep it together. I just wish that everyone could accept both games as being good, say who cares to what is better, and enjoy playing both Melee AND Brawl with eachother rather than fighting about which one is superior.
 

wtZzz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
138
Location
Santa Clarita, CA
Good original post.

It is important everyone gets in with the times. Things change. Melee has been ousted by its newer version. You can go ahead and keep playing it, but the rest of the world is now playing Brawl, which is a different game. New styles WILL develop, new techniques WILL be discovered, and a lot of new players WILL get their name out there.

A LOT of people are going to be getting into Brawl. Being that it is online and competition is easily accessible, we are going to get all kinds of players, of all different ages and maturity levels. Also, being that much of the competition will take place online, you will have your intelligent players, and your cheaper players. It is too soon to tell exactly what is ahead of us.

People need to realize this game is brand new. Quite frankly, I think tournaments and leagues at this time are pointless. I don't even care who is good after 2 or 3 weeks. In 2 months, this game will develop far beyond the levels players are at right now.

In conclusion, I feel people need to relax, accept that this is a new game, and start practicing, hard. There will be nothing more frusturating to be a god in Melee, and only a high level player in Brawl. Focus on pursuing what you feel is the "game" inside of Brawl. Don't compete yet, just practice. If you want to go ahead and say you are the best, or you are better than someone else, you are just being a fool. This game is way too young.

You already have the microcommunity and networking to help you increase your skill levels quickly. We are all in this together. Use this site as a key to success in the future.

P.S. Original poster mentioned that in this game, there was less discrimination between elites and non-elites. Yet, this site has a section that is invite only, for "good" players. Now that Brawl is the main game, perhaps all the members of this private club should be removed, since it is too early to tell who the elites are in Brawl.
 

AlexX

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
651
You know, after reading this thread and looking a few of the topics on the subject, I can see the point... The drama that has come from this is actually comparable to the kind of drama that a certain other internet fandom is rather well-known for (which says quite a lot...).

However, contrary to a few of the posts in this thread, I really don't think that shunning either side and its supporters is going to accomplish the goal. I'm not sure how it could be solved, but telling one side that they're wrong in their preferance for whichever game they like better isn't going to help anything.
 

SiegKnight

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
323
being that it is online and easily accessible? maybe if you want a matrix style match with .50 second imput delay at the speed of a fuccking grandma on a solar powered weilder in a daamn solar eclipse sure.

Is it that hard to stop being lazy and just find people in your area?

I agree with your approach to the game proper though.
 

Tyr_03

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
OH
It's the internet. People are stupid on the internet. Go anywhere and you'll find the same type of thing. Ignorant people flaming. Even before Brawl there were plenty of idiots in the Melee boards. It's a simple fact of life that when you create a large gathering of anonymous people, the majority of them will be stupid. Brawl simply added more people and more ignorance.
 

Black Magician

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
137
Location
UK
Isn't it ironic that, in this thread about easing tension and ending the pointless and tedious arguments about Brawl several posts have already thrown around unnecessary superlatives ( it's definitely not the worst game ever, or even the worst thing to happen to the community), putting forward their opinions in a needlessly confrontational way?

Besides, as the original post says, this is supposed to be a party game, as was Melee, and indeed the original Smash! Surely, by removing the competitive atmosphere, Sakurai has made the game much more faithful to the reason for its conception?
 

Superstarmario

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
254
Isn't it ironic that, in this thread about easing tension and ending the pointless and tedious arguments about Brawl several posts have already thrown around unnecessary superlatives (or even the worst thing to happen to the community), putting forward their opinions in a needlessly confrontational way?

Besides, as the original post says, this is supposed to be a party game, as was Melee, and indeed the original Smash! Surely, by removing the competitive atmosphere, Sakurai has made the game much more faithful to the reason for its conception?
Uh, yeah it was.

Check my join date. I lurked this forum months prior, and I never once saw a Casual vs. Competitve thread before Brawl was announced. Then the first trailer is released. Suddenly the community grows, due to this place being unfortunately named Smash World Forums. Timeskip. Nsider closes and the community explodes. Now SWF is filled with the dumb **** we have on these boards now.

What's worse is this place is discovered by 4chan, and all hell breaks loose. Now anything anti-item comes with a bash. Fighting erupts over every single Dojo update. (remember the infamous "real men use items" bull****?) Memes develop, troll population triples and we arrive at the present. It's a fate that's probably inevitable for any sequel to Melee. But Brawl turning out.......the way it did doesn't help the fact.

Besides, as the original post says, this is supposed to be a party game, as was Melee, and indeed the original Smash! Surely, by removing the competitive atmosphere, Sakurai has made the game much more faithful to the reason for its conception?
I don't give a **** what Sakurai wants or how he intends for me to play. Intent regardless, if it sucks in the competitve aspect then it just sucks in that aspect.



Now for this thread. A nice first post. We do need to settle down and stop this "play my way" crap.

Truthfully? I'm not objective enough to say that I don't have a finger to point as a cause, which I know isn't helping. The casual users. Not all of them, of course. But majorty of the ******* arguements on this board start a little something like this.

"Fox has been nerfed pretty hard in Brawl due to the floaty engine. Without his combos he should be knocked down on the tier list pretty far."

"Tiers are stupid. You butthurt torney***s just can't adapt to Fox now. IT'S NOT MELEE 2.0"

No lie. The only times I've ever seen a arguement to where a competitive player "started it" is when Dylan Tnga roamed the boards. I hardly ever see him around, so I can watch with little fail another legitimate thread become derailed into yet another flame war by a casual troll.

Melee vs. Brawl is another story. Quite a simple one too. It's an opinion. Yet people seem to take it that saying Melee is better than Brawl means that Brawl sucks. Nobody seriously beleives Brawl is the worst game ever. Melee is considered competitively superior. Brawl is just new.

People can share ideas, people can debate. We don't have to agree on one answer, nor do we have to keep quiet about it just because these are the Brawl boards. But guess what party instead incites another flame war?

What creates such a terrible rift is this board's nasty little habit of classifiying any negative opinion as an wrong one somehow. Don't like tripping? You don't belong here now. Dislike camp happy Brawl system? Go away. It feels like some evil 'be happy all the time' dictatorship.

Aaaand that about wraps it up. I can easily throw out my opinions and causes. As for a solution, I'm useless in that aspect. The only thing I can say is that people need to change the way they act and their attitudes toward each other. People just need to change.

Too bad they never do.
 

Reese

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
258
Location
Edmonton
Brawl is a fun game, and a melee is a fun game. If you like brawl play brawl. If you like melee then play melee. WTF with all the drama.
 

Banjodorf

Dynamic Duo
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
8,455
NNID
bluefalcon27
3DS FC
2105-8715-5493
This game is a terrible kiddy party game that bad melee players or new players who do'nt know any better make it out to be the best thing ever cause its new, and ruined the melee community. This sucks.

Edit : I know there are exceptions to this rule as there is to every rule, however you are in the minority, and I was speaking in general.
Apparently you didnt listen to the OP. Being more open minded, and being more accepting is what we need.

The thousands of us on SWF who enjoy the game dont need or want to hear this, and I'm sure you obviously dont want me to talk about how GREAT I feel Brawl is.

However, this will get us nowhere.

People still play Melee. Even more play Brawl. People should play what they'd like, and discuss what they like as long as it doesnt lead to disruptive trash talking such as

This game is a terrible Kiddy party game
This is not what is needed right now, and as TAP stated, this is exactly what's splitting our community apart. Besides, I enjoy this game thoroughly, and I'm 17 years old. I dont prefer to think of myself, or my friends who enjoy this, as kiddy.

Somehow, some way, the Brawl players and Melee advocates are going to have to reach common ground. Be at agreement.. but how?
 

baheffron

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 13, 2005
Messages
102
Location
Charleston, SC
Why play brawl when melee is better? The best way to restore the community is to switch back to melee. Brawl is horribly boring; i never play it anymore.
 

KMB23

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
236
I like brawl alot.. but I must say, the reason it destroyed the community for me is because I can't browse through a thread to read intelligent responses to questions or ideas. It's all a bunch of people with join dates of April/March/February 08 who try to act like they know what they're talking about. Call me an elitist or whatever, but it bugs me.
 

S2

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
1,503
Location
Socal 805 (aka Hyrule)
Brawl itself is not the problem, its simply the popularity that comes with a new game in the franchise.

Already the amount of trolling has gone done quite a bit since the game's (NA) release. As Brawl gets further from being "the new big Nintendo hit", I imagine the boards will only get better. As casual players will leave to pursue other games and the boards will return to hardcore players discussing what they feel is relevant.
 
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