LiteralGrill
Smokin' Hot~
Thanks man, I look forward to you adding more. I'll try and see if I can reverse my G&W matchup discussion on Pichu to work from Pichu's point of view.
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Guide The Pichu Matchup Thread
- Thread starter DerfMidWest
- Start date
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I have a ton of experience in the Pichu/G&W mu for some reason....
But yeah, I'll try to finish up the top 8 pretty soon, then I'll move on to the low tiers
But yeah, I'll try to finish up the top 8 pretty soon, then I'll move on to the low tiers
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Alright.
4. Jigglypuff
--Stages of Choice:--
1. Yoshi's Story:
An obvious choice for pichu, there isn't a lot of space for puff to maneuver, so you can chase her very easily. The ceiling is low, so you'll get kills off the top quickly. The sides are close, however, so you'll die pretty quickly from her bair.
2. Stadium:
Another solid choice, low ceiling, slightly further side killzones than on yoshis. The only bad thing is that you lose your top platform, which can make things a little harder.
3. Battlefield:
Our good friend battlefield, always a solid choice for pichu. You can really abuse the platforms here and be very troublesome for puff to try and catch.
FoD is an alright stage, the ceiling is kinda high, but the moving platforms can annoy puff quite a bit. Really try to avoid FD and Dreamland. FD is really big and has no platforms, which you really want in this matchup, and puff will just live forever on dreamland.
---
This matchup isn't really that complicated. It can be hard at times, but your goals are pretty straight forward.
basically, you either want to be under puff, or camping the platforms.
So, as you probably know, puffs like to try an wall you out with bair. Surprisingly, this can actually be kind of hard for them to do against pichu because you're tiny as hell.
The easiest way to deal with this is to wait for puff to jump, if she looks like she's going for a low bair, just fullhop jolt.
If she goes higher to try and stop an approach, you want to get under her either by running in and usmashing or utilting (rising uair works too, but it only does 3%) or by using a PA as soon as she leaves the ground.
Jolts are really good in this matchup. Usually you want to be using fullhop retreating jolts or falling jolts from the top platform, similar to how sheik would needle camp. Since neither of you can really combo each other, this is a matchup that is all about just getting a hit or two and then getting out. You have to be very conscious of your positioning the entire time.
Your moves tend to send puff way above you, she's really slow at falling, so you can just hit her with thunder for free. It doesn't do a lot, but it really annoys puff players and it wracks up percent.
Puff players usually won't go for rests against pichu because you're really tiny and hard for them to hit, but if they do, and they miss, you want to charge up your sideB. It's the puff slayer. If they have any percent, they will probably die from it.
Just be really careful with your tech rolls, because they are slow as hell and puff will be looking for them.
Also, when you get grabbed, puff usually dthrows, looking for you to DI in or something dumb like that so she can get a free rest, so just DI away. Her grab really doesn't do anything to you.
I don't like generic nair approaches in this matchup, puff looks for them and you don't have the range to approach her bair.
Jolts are definitely your best friend here.
4. Jigglypuff
--Stages of Choice:--
1. Yoshi's Story:
An obvious choice for pichu, there isn't a lot of space for puff to maneuver, so you can chase her very easily. The ceiling is low, so you'll get kills off the top quickly. The sides are close, however, so you'll die pretty quickly from her bair.
2. Stadium:
Another solid choice, low ceiling, slightly further side killzones than on yoshis. The only bad thing is that you lose your top platform, which can make things a little harder.
3. Battlefield:
Our good friend battlefield, always a solid choice for pichu. You can really abuse the platforms here and be very troublesome for puff to try and catch.
FoD is an alright stage, the ceiling is kinda high, but the moving platforms can annoy puff quite a bit. Really try to avoid FD and Dreamland. FD is really big and has no platforms, which you really want in this matchup, and puff will just live forever on dreamland.
---
This matchup isn't really that complicated. It can be hard at times, but your goals are pretty straight forward.
basically, you either want to be under puff, or camping the platforms.
So, as you probably know, puffs like to try an wall you out with bair. Surprisingly, this can actually be kind of hard for them to do against pichu because you're tiny as hell.
The easiest way to deal with this is to wait for puff to jump, if she looks like she's going for a low bair, just fullhop jolt.
If she goes higher to try and stop an approach, you want to get under her either by running in and usmashing or utilting (rising uair works too, but it only does 3%) or by using a PA as soon as she leaves the ground.
Jolts are really good in this matchup. Usually you want to be using fullhop retreating jolts or falling jolts from the top platform, similar to how sheik would needle camp. Since neither of you can really combo each other, this is a matchup that is all about just getting a hit or two and then getting out. You have to be very conscious of your positioning the entire time.
Your moves tend to send puff way above you, she's really slow at falling, so you can just hit her with thunder for free. It doesn't do a lot, but it really annoys puff players and it wracks up percent.
Puff players usually won't go for rests against pichu because you're really tiny and hard for them to hit, but if they do, and they miss, you want to charge up your sideB. It's the puff slayer. If they have any percent, they will probably die from it.
Just be really careful with your tech rolls, because they are slow as hell and puff will be looking for them.
Also, when you get grabbed, puff usually dthrows, looking for you to DI in or something dumb like that so she can get a free rest, so just DI away. Her grab really doesn't do anything to you.
I don't like generic nair approaches in this matchup, puff looks for them and you don't have the range to approach her bair.
Jolts are definitely your best friend here.
LiteralGrill
Smokin' Hot~
Thanks for another write up man, got it added into the OP. I do hope to sit down and try to help a bit more very soon by recycling what is actually worth reading from the old discussions. Hopefully I can fill in some low tiers were my knowledge is greatest.
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DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
chyea.
I'll do marth and peach next.
probably sometime within the next few days
I'll do marth and peach next.
probably sometime within the next few days
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
5. Marth
--Stages of Choice:--
1. Battlefield:
Always and forever. Movement is super important in this matchup. You never want to be standing still.
2. FD:
This is usually a solid pichu stage. You have a lot of space on the ground and you can jolt spam like no tomorrow.
3. DL:
Good stage in this mu. Lots of room and you don't die as quick.
Avoid: Yoshi's and FoD. Really close sides, not a lot of room to run. Bad things happen.
---
Alright, I'll just start off by saying this matchup is balls. Marth pretty much decks you super hard.
But, you can do things if they aren't playing the correct way, which a lot of low level marths won't.
So lets break it down: Being close to marth sucks. Getting tippered is gonna kill you at like 30%
Approaching is really hard.
So what you're gonna want to do is run around a whole lot and shoot a lot of fullhop jolts.
I like to bait marth into the air with a fullhop and then use a retreating doublejump jolt if he tries to sh fair me.
If marth is on the ground, he can kinda just jab your jolts, which is really dumb, but there isn't a lot you can do about that, so whatever. Try to get him off the ground.
You're gonna be playing just outside his range a lot. This is tricky because the very edge of his range is the part that kills you, so you have to be super careful and aware of your position the entire time.
When marth fsmashes your shield, you use a PA to get close to him and grab. If they're bad you can fsmash, but a better player will just sdi out of that if they react quick enough.
Once you get a grab you can dthrow into stuff.
At really low percents if they don't do anything you can regrab or tech chase them, but marth's tech rolls are pretty good, so you'll have to use PA to follow them a lot of the time.
Or you can just usmash and try to get something out of that by baiting an aerial out.
at mid-high percents, nair is usually the best follow up. It doesn't set up a whole lot, but it's really safe. A lot of the time it'll force marth into the grounded position or a place where he has to tech and if you react quick enough you can follow that up.
Marth off stage can be tricky to gimp. Jolts are always a good option to try and kill his double jump.
I like to bait the doublejump aerial out by getting bellow him off stage and then using a rising nair to punish, but don't get over-reliant on that because marth has a big ol' sword and can punish you pree good.
Learn the marth slayer. It's really easy to do, and you'll definitely need it.
If you don't know what that is, you basically just roll towards the edge and angle your light shield down and towards the ledge, when marth's upB hits it, you'll fall onto the ledge and then marth dies.
--Stages of Choice:--
1. Battlefield:
Always and forever. Movement is super important in this matchup. You never want to be standing still.
2. FD:
This is usually a solid pichu stage. You have a lot of space on the ground and you can jolt spam like no tomorrow.
3. DL:
Good stage in this mu. Lots of room and you don't die as quick.
Avoid: Yoshi's and FoD. Really close sides, not a lot of room to run. Bad things happen.
---
Alright, I'll just start off by saying this matchup is balls. Marth pretty much decks you super hard.
But, you can do things if they aren't playing the correct way, which a lot of low level marths won't.
So lets break it down: Being close to marth sucks. Getting tippered is gonna kill you at like 30%
Approaching is really hard.
So what you're gonna want to do is run around a whole lot and shoot a lot of fullhop jolts.
I like to bait marth into the air with a fullhop and then use a retreating doublejump jolt if he tries to sh fair me.
If marth is on the ground, he can kinda just jab your jolts, which is really dumb, but there isn't a lot you can do about that, so whatever. Try to get him off the ground.
You're gonna be playing just outside his range a lot. This is tricky because the very edge of his range is the part that kills you, so you have to be super careful and aware of your position the entire time.
When marth fsmashes your shield, you use a PA to get close to him and grab. If they're bad you can fsmash, but a better player will just sdi out of that if they react quick enough.
Once you get a grab you can dthrow into stuff.
At really low percents if they don't do anything you can regrab or tech chase them, but marth's tech rolls are pretty good, so you'll have to use PA to follow them a lot of the time.
Or you can just usmash and try to get something out of that by baiting an aerial out.
at mid-high percents, nair is usually the best follow up. It doesn't set up a whole lot, but it's really safe. A lot of the time it'll force marth into the grounded position or a place where he has to tech and if you react quick enough you can follow that up.
Marth off stage can be tricky to gimp. Jolts are always a good option to try and kill his double jump.
I like to bait the doublejump aerial out by getting bellow him off stage and then using a rising nair to punish, but don't get over-reliant on that because marth has a big ol' sword and can punish you pree good.
Learn the marth slayer. It's really easy to do, and you'll definitely need it.
If you don't know what that is, you basically just roll towards the edge and angle your light shield down and towards the ledge, when marth's upB hits it, you'll fall onto the ledge and then marth dies.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Ok I'm gonna finish Peach by the end of the day tomorrow, then Falcon by wednesday of next week, then ICs after that if I have time.
Once I'm through the top 8, I'll do a binge mu write-up of the mid tiers. Really want to write about samus for some reason.
Once I'm through the top 8, I'll do a binge mu write-up of the mid tiers. Really want to write about samus for some reason.
Soupeschleg
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2014
- Messages
- 228
Anyone have Pichu-Pikachu matchup experience? Very tricky one imo
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
yeah you get wrecked. Pika is a bigger faster version of pichu that dies later and kills way faster.
you'll get killed by thunderflip at like 30-40%
he has all the tools you do, but he's just waaay faster and better at using most of them.
your jolts are better though... but good luck camping pika lmao.
basically just run when you get the chance (which is hard because pika doesn't have a lot of laggy moves), nair->grab or something-> get a couple hits -> run away -> repeat.
eventually you'll get him to like 80 or 90% (or like... 150% on dreamland) and you can get an upsmash kill.
Comet7
Smash Lord
Is there anything I can do to deal with a Samus that just missle camps? I played a Samus that did that in a friendly, and I couldn't touch it...
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Oh I've been slackin'. Totally forgot to do more write-ups.
I'll do a full explanation of the samus MU eventually, but dealing with missiles is basically:
1) nair/bair. they have higher priority than missiles, so you can go right through them if you time it correctly, a real lazy nair will probably get hit because it has low priority at the end, so you have to be careful with your timing.
2) ftilt. ftilt has the priority of the gods. just walk->ftilt and turtle your way through that ****.
3) lightshield. Ain't bad. Just keep it in mind.
4) UpB OoS. pretty much going off of the lightshield thing, after the missile hits your shield, remember that your upB has like 1 frame of lag and covers a lot of ground, also remember that once samus starts her missile animation, she's committed to the missile, so if you slip underneath her when she's trying to come down with a missile, she's ****ed. She'll probably panic dsmash or something (she has no landlag after and aerial missile, so watch out) so either act quick enough to avoid that or wait it out and punish OoS.
5) play the top platform game (the VaNz approach). If they're not gonna let you come to them, you can make them come to you.
They'll start using homing missiles if they weren't already, so just ftilt, lightshield, or even jab them.
if they try to extender, just jump (preferably at them), because it can't grab out of the air. it has a ton of lag. just be careful when landing that you aren't within it's grab box.
if they try to come under you with aerials, usually fair or uair from under the platform, just shield then shielddrop->aerial, or upB OoS onto a side platform or directly bellow here and start using utilts and uairs because samus is slow in the air and can't get down. once you get her up high enough, you can land like 3 thunders before she can actually get back to a platform and it's hilarious.
I'll do a full explanation of the samus MU eventually, but dealing with missiles is basically:
1) nair/bair. they have higher priority than missiles, so you can go right through them if you time it correctly, a real lazy nair will probably get hit because it has low priority at the end, so you have to be careful with your timing.
2) ftilt. ftilt has the priority of the gods. just walk->ftilt and turtle your way through that ****.
3) lightshield. Ain't bad. Just keep it in mind.
4) UpB OoS. pretty much going off of the lightshield thing, after the missile hits your shield, remember that your upB has like 1 frame of lag and covers a lot of ground, also remember that once samus starts her missile animation, she's committed to the missile, so if you slip underneath her when she's trying to come down with a missile, she's ****ed. She'll probably panic dsmash or something (she has no landlag after and aerial missile, so watch out) so either act quick enough to avoid that or wait it out and punish OoS.
5) play the top platform game (the VaNz approach). If they're not gonna let you come to them, you can make them come to you.
They'll start using homing missiles if they weren't already, so just ftilt, lightshield, or even jab them.
if they try to extender, just jump (preferably at them), because it can't grab out of the air. it has a ton of lag. just be careful when landing that you aren't within it's grab box.
if they try to come under you with aerials, usually fair or uair from under the platform, just shield then shielddrop->aerial, or upB OoS onto a side platform or directly bellow here and start using utilts and uairs because samus is slow in the air and can't get down. once you get her up high enough, you can land like 3 thunders before she can actually get back to a platform and it's hilarious.
proxibomb
Smash Clown
Should Pichu just avoid Yoshi's Story in general? It seems like a good stage to juggle people on. U-Tiltgrabs are also easy to do too.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
yoshi's is pretty solid, but it depends on the matchup.
against most hightiers, it's a scary place.
but in a lot of other matchups its nice.
As far as stages go, just go with what you're feelin', unless it's a completely idiotic choice like taking marth to yoshi's.
Abort mission.
N1c2k3
Smash Lord
Against Pikachu just about the only thing I try to do at 0% is bait for a grab or work up tiny damage with really quick attacks that aren't easily punished, such as d-tilt. Then work towards the ledge and once you have him off, edgehog and ledgehop nair him out of recovery. It's not that great of a situation, as Pikachu's already hard to edgeguard, but it's still pretty much all you have. The only other kill option you're going to have is Usmash. To get an upper-hand in damage, look to followups/tech chases. Do not try going in straight up with nairs or trade with him; you will never come out ahead.
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proxibomb
Smash Clown
Alright coming in full force with lots of match ups. I wanted to first start out with Fox. Oddly enough, I strongly disagree with the "-3" matchup, I'd go with -2, or even -1. Now, let's talk why. I've also added Ice Climbers too, as a bonus.
I've hidden Fox's matchup due to a somewhat disagreed matchup, I will still continue to edit information.
Ice Climbers -
Stages: Dream Land/Final Destination
(-3)
Ice Climbers will be the hardest match up for Pichu, play on Dreamland, if you can't, you will have to depend on your skills and separation of the Ice Climbers with any other stage. Don't choose Yoshi's Story, you'll either have no room to fight them, or you will get wobbled. Final Destination is your other main stage if you cannot make it to Dream Land.
Ice Climbers should be Pichu's toughest battle. Not Fox, not Falco, not Marth, not Samus, not even Jiggs. Ice Climbers are pretty much only defeated through SDs made by your opponent, gimps, ledge guard/ledge hogging, or singling out the main Ice Climber (Ice Climber depends on the costume, I'll refer to the main Ice Climber as Solo Popo "Sopo"). You'll basically see juggling as your main way to KO your opponent. Grabbing Ice Climbers will be tough for Pichu, if you grab Nana instead of Popo, your opponent gets a free hit, if you get a grab on Popo, you're set. Grab Popo, throw him backwards, and absolutely push Nana off stage, so much until she can't make it, you shouldn't even have to edge guard if you can somehow stay away from Popo. Killing Nana is easy because she focuses on getting back to Popo rather than actually fighting. After getting rid of Nana, Sopo will easily be juggled, cannot wobble you, and will die easily off stage. Choosing Dream Land guarantees a stock if Sopo is flown off stage.
Ice Climber's Smash moves will easily push you away from them, regardless of percentage. That means, if you are hit directly by both Ice Climbers with a Forward Smash, you have an easy chance of escaping. You'll have to once again depend on crouch cancelling for this, you may also Smash DI their Forward Smash, and Up Smash - very easily. Tilts and grabs won't sit too well with Ice Climbers, so you might want to stock some percentage from them by using your Nair and Bair, which both push the Ice Climbers back, but can easily be Di'd.
I will have most, if not all 26 characters up on this thread by the end of this year. Please understand, these are my tactics, and usually work if done right. These matchups are subjected to change, change will likely not happen.
I've hidden Fox's matchup due to a somewhat disagreed matchup, I will still continue to edit information.
Fox -
Stages: Final Destination/Battlefield (Choose Dream Land if you could get a good recovery going)
(-1)
Fox is an odd character. I usually have people saying he's the best character, and I say he is too. The one thing I can't agree with, is when people say his only counters are Samus, Ice Climbers, and Falco, sometimes even Marth. What if I said Pichu?
Pichu has a dangerous ledge guard, a recovery too strong for Fox/Falco. Your main goal with Fox/Falco is to juggle them on the stage, and blast them off the stage. When you ledge guard correctly, you will be at the higher advantage for nearly the entire game. Because Fox is a very offensive character, once you've been pulled into a combo, it's somewhat hard to be knocked out of it. If you are lucky enough, the higher percentage, the easier to escape. At the start of the game, never let Fox get the combo first. Ever. Anyways, juggling Fox involves using your Up Smash, Uair, Up tilt, and lastly your Nair. The order is usually like this:
In terms of being offensive, it's best to refer to T0MMY's guide, but I could sum up what he recommends, and a slightly edited version of how to stay offensive with Fox. First off, lasers won't matter for Pichu, often times, I see myself easily crouching or Fox even missing his lasers due to Pichu's size. If Fox ever spams lasers, you will either have to Nair him or Bair him, and try to get a grab. Once you've grabbed him, you should either throw him down, or up. From there, juggle him. After the juggle, throw him off with Nair, or even juggle him to the top of the blast zone and finish him off with a Down-B.
Ledge guarding is seemingly simple, your reaction time doesn't actually have to be really good - you just need to get a good timing. With Pichu's Foward Smash/Side Smash, you will either get a gimp on Fox and he won't fly, which means Fox will get hit by the first two circles of the hitbox (refer to the hitbox/frame date for Pichu to understand what I mean) and fly down. If you manage to pull off a sort of sweet spot to Pichu's Forward Smash, Fox will temporarily stay in Pichu's shock, and then go flying. If Fox is higher than 55% to 60%, simply ledge hogging will finish him, if he get's close to the stage, roll onto the stage, he still won't be able to grab it if the timing is right. Roll onto the stage if he gets really close. His easy KO percentage with nearly every Smash move is 130%, following the guide above, you can can kill him with earlier percentages. Use forward tilts or forward smashes if he ever decides to use side-special!
Stages: Final Destination/Battlefield (Choose Dream Land if you could get a good recovery going)
(-1)
Fox is an odd character. I usually have people saying he's the best character, and I say he is too. The one thing I can't agree with, is when people say his only counters are Samus, Ice Climbers, and Falco, sometimes even Marth. What if I said Pichu?
Pichu has a dangerous ledge guard, a recovery too strong for Fox/Falco. Your main goal with Fox/Falco is to juggle them on the stage, and blast them off the stage. When you ledge guard correctly, you will be at the higher advantage for nearly the entire game. Because Fox is a very offensive character, once you've been pulled into a combo, it's somewhat hard to be knocked out of it. If you are lucky enough, the higher percentage, the easier to escape. At the start of the game, never let Fox get the combo first. Ever. Anyways, juggling Fox involves using your Up Smash, Uair, Up tilt, and lastly your Nair. The order is usually like this:
- Up Smash, Fox's weight will quickly bring him back to the ground, leaving you two or even three additional Up Smashes
- Using your Uair is probably your best bet, but if you decide to use your Up Smash once, using several (8-10) Up tilts should follow after the Up Smash, make sure the percentage of Fox is above 50% for a good juggle with some Up tilts
- Use your Nair. Correctly. When Fox is coming back near the ground, hit Fox with a Nair. Don't just go up to Fox, hit him with either side of your Nair, not the middle, depending on how close you are to either side of the stage.
In terms of being offensive, it's best to refer to T0MMY's guide, but I could sum up what he recommends, and a slightly edited version of how to stay offensive with Fox. First off, lasers won't matter for Pichu, often times, I see myself easily crouching or Fox even missing his lasers due to Pichu's size. If Fox ever spams lasers, you will either have to Nair him or Bair him, and try to get a grab. Once you've grabbed him, you should either throw him down, or up. From there, juggle him. After the juggle, throw him off with Nair, or even juggle him to the top of the blast zone and finish him off with a Down-B.
Ledge guarding is seemingly simple, your reaction time doesn't actually have to be really good - you just need to get a good timing. With Pichu's Foward Smash/Side Smash, you will either get a gimp on Fox and he won't fly, which means Fox will get hit by the first two circles of the hitbox (refer to the hitbox/frame date for Pichu to understand what I mean) and fly down. If you manage to pull off a sort of sweet spot to Pichu's Forward Smash, Fox will temporarily stay in Pichu's shock, and then go flying. If Fox is higher than 55% to 60%, simply ledge hogging will finish him, if he get's close to the stage, roll onto the stage, he still won't be able to grab it if the timing is right. Roll onto the stage if he gets really close. His easy KO percentage with nearly every Smash move is 130%, following the guide above, you can can kill him with earlier percentages. Use forward tilts or forward smashes if he ever decides to use side-special!
Stages: Dream Land/Final Destination
(-3)
Ice Climbers will be the hardest match up for Pichu, play on Dreamland, if you can't, you will have to depend on your skills and separation of the Ice Climbers with any other stage. Don't choose Yoshi's Story, you'll either have no room to fight them, or you will get wobbled. Final Destination is your other main stage if you cannot make it to Dream Land.
Ice Climbers should be Pichu's toughest battle. Not Fox, not Falco, not Marth, not Samus, not even Jiggs. Ice Climbers are pretty much only defeated through SDs made by your opponent, gimps, ledge guard/ledge hogging, or singling out the main Ice Climber (Ice Climber depends on the costume, I'll refer to the main Ice Climber as Solo Popo "Sopo"). You'll basically see juggling as your main way to KO your opponent. Grabbing Ice Climbers will be tough for Pichu, if you grab Nana instead of Popo, your opponent gets a free hit, if you get a grab on Popo, you're set. Grab Popo, throw him backwards, and absolutely push Nana off stage, so much until she can't make it, you shouldn't even have to edge guard if you can somehow stay away from Popo. Killing Nana is easy because she focuses on getting back to Popo rather than actually fighting. After getting rid of Nana, Sopo will easily be juggled, cannot wobble you, and will die easily off stage. Choosing Dream Land guarantees a stock if Sopo is flown off stage.
Ice Climber's Smash moves will easily push you away from them, regardless of percentage. That means, if you are hit directly by both Ice Climbers with a Forward Smash, you have an easy chance of escaping. You'll have to once again depend on crouch cancelling for this, you may also Smash DI their Forward Smash, and Up Smash - very easily. Tilts and grabs won't sit too well with Ice Climbers, so you might want to stock some percentage from them by using your Nair and Bair, which both push the Ice Climbers back, but can easily be Di'd.
I will have most, if not all 26 characters up on this thread by the end of this year. Please understand, these are my tactics, and usually work if done right. These matchups are subjected to change, change will likely not happen.
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Comet7
Smash Lord
Couldn't battlefield work for Pichu vs Ice Climbers? I would assume that the platforms would make it easier to desynch them.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Let's calm down for a second.
Fox will **** you up. The matchup is like 90-10 if they know what to do.CC is a decent option... but fox has the tools to deal with it. Pichu also has one of the worst CCs in the game due to his weight.
You're going to have a lot of trouble getting through bair walls.
you're also going to die at like 30%
Pichu, like most characters, can abuse his weight and recovery and all that, but fox ****s you up.
I recommend reading my write up on fox (It's in the op)
Mango's pichu is not a typical pichu... but that's all I'll say about that.
Don't bother reading T0mmy's guide. It's from a totally different era and the game has changed enough to make it irrelevant.
As for ICs, that's pichu's worst matchup. I'll make a write up of that one pretty soon.
Fox will **** you up. The matchup is like 90-10 if they know what to do.CC is a decent option... but fox has the tools to deal with it. Pichu also has one of the worst CCs in the game due to his weight.
You're going to have a lot of trouble getting through bair walls.
you're also going to die at like 30%
Pichu, like most characters, can abuse his weight and recovery and all that, but fox ****s you up.
I recommend reading my write up on fox (It's in the op)
Mango's pichu is not a typical pichu... but that's all I'll say about that.
Don't bother reading T0mmy's guide. It's from a totally different era and the game has changed enough to make it irrelevant.
As for ICs, that's pichu's worst matchup. I'll make a write up of that one pretty soon.
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proxibomb
Smash Clown
Alrighty, getting rid of Foxs. Does my Icies match work well enough to be an official for the match up?
Well, the thing is, Battlefield is a small stage really, so IC could easily dominate, and with most Smash moves pushing you back, it would be hard to get near.
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proxibomb
Smash Clown
Bowser -
Stages - Final Destination/Dreamland
(0)
Bowser's large brute body being quite easy to counter is really odd. The thing is, Bowser is very easy to juggle, all his strongest moves can easily be DI'd and crouch cancelled, this could probably go well with any character really. Whenever a Pichu verses Bowser, you will want to go to mainly Final Destination or Dreamland, the point being that you'll easily win a match if you juggle Bowser, strike him with a Forward Smash or Nair, and finally gimping him or pushing him away from the stage.
Juggling Bowser can be done multiple ways, I prefer constant U-Tilts after grabbing him and throwing him in the air, but their are many ways to go for Bowser. Let's just say he's a large canvas, and Pichu is the brush.
Bowser's recovery is a joke, you could gimp him by spamming Neutral B, using your Forward Smash, which has quite the hitbox, and completely shift him off stage, or nudge him a bit so that he'll have to continue using Up-B before giving up, or somehow making back. If he does make back onto stage and you have tried gimping him with the various tactics used above, use a quick Nair to continue the cycle. As a bonus, he might even have a high percentage from the attempt at a gimp he survives.
Stages - Final Destination/Dreamland
(0)
Bowser's large brute body being quite easy to counter is really odd. The thing is, Bowser is very easy to juggle, all his strongest moves can easily be DI'd and crouch cancelled, this could probably go well with any character really. Whenever a Pichu verses Bowser, you will want to go to mainly Final Destination or Dreamland, the point being that you'll easily win a match if you juggle Bowser, strike him with a Forward Smash or Nair, and finally gimping him or pushing him away from the stage.
Juggling Bowser can be done multiple ways, I prefer constant U-Tilts after grabbing him and throwing him in the air, but their are many ways to go for Bowser. Let's just say he's a large canvas, and Pichu is the brush.
- Throw him in the air, best to shield-grab him due to his claws having a somewhat good knockback at early percentages, and just jiggle him with U-Tilts until he's at 90% or 100%. You can either finish him with a Forward Smash, multiple Nairs and a good ledge guard, a gimp off the stage with your Neutral B, or even knocking him higher than the Blast Zone with your Up Smash.
- Spam Nairs and Tilts, and finish him with whatever strong move you have. With good timing, you can KO Bowser off stage with three Forward Smashes. Three. Forward Smashes.
Bowser's recovery is a joke, you could gimp him by spamming Neutral B, using your Forward Smash, which has quite the hitbox, and completely shift him off stage, or nudge him a bit so that he'll have to continue using Up-B before giving up, or somehow making back. If he does make back onto stage and you have tried gimping him with the various tactics used above, use a quick Nair to continue the cycle. As a bonus, he might even have a high percentage from the attempt at a gimp he survives.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Alright, I'm bored, so more matchups:
6. Peach
--Stages of Choice:--
*It's difficult to say which stages are best for this matchup, because it changes depending on the style of peach.
1. BF platforms are your best friend in this matchup. You're going to spend most of your time running around peach, and the position of the top platform makes this very easy.
2. PS I'm personally not a fan, because you lose your top platform, but you can kill peach off the top pretty quickly. You can also stop peach from getting to you in certain transformations via thunder.
Yoshi's and Dreamland are iffy stages that depend on the peach. Dreamland gives you a lot of room to run, but peach is not gonna die. As for yoshi's, peach dies, but she corners you really fast. These days there are a lot more aggressive peach players, and they love yoshi's.
FoD is another iffy stage, I love FoD in general, but like yoshi's, you have no room. You also have a low ceiling (it takes longer to kill peach), close side blast zones (she kills you faster), and peach loves the platforms on this stage (you can utilt through them and stuff, but watch out for those low blenders)
FD is your worst choice, in my opinion. Having platforms and staying off the ground is super important.
---
Alright, on to the fun stuff:
This matchup requires you to be moving. A lot. You need to develop strong platform mobility, which is why I'm such a huge fan of battlefield.
Approaching peach is pretty difficult most of the time, which is why you generally are gonna want her to come to you.
You can sometimes run in with nair if she's on the ground, but while she's floating, you're gonna want to keep your distance.
turnips are pretty much a free approach. Most peach players can't consistently turnip pull cancel (it also puts them in a bad position since they usually have to be on a platform), so if they just stop to pull a turnip, run in with a nair.
once peach has a turnip in her hand, you can force her into shield and there isn't much she can do (still watch out for FC aerials OoS though).
learning to catch turnips helps a lot, you gain a projectile that doesn't hurt you, and pichu's aerial item throw is pretty decent.
it's easiest to catch them from a crouch or standing still, but you can still catch them in the air, so just practice.
ok now general peach tip:
unless peach dash attacks or jabs/tilts, this (crouch canceling) is a terrible idea. If you cc a downsmash, you're going to take up to 80%. fortunately, pichu's crouch cancel sucks, so you usually won't take the full 80%, but generally speaking, you're gonna have a bad time, so only CC if you know for a fact that you're getting away with it.
Shielding while peach is floating is also questionable (aka bad), because an FC aerial on your shield gives peach a major opening and she can shield pressure really well. Don't try to shield grab an FC aerial. If you do shield an aerial, peach will do one of these three things:
1. jab. this stops shield grabs. (usually followed by: )
2. grab. usually a mix up.
3. dsmash. that just eats your shield up.
so yeah. those are solid options, you might get lucky and read a grab and spotdodge it or buffer roll out or something, but generally, shielding is bad (unless you're on a platform)
Both of these scenarios are completely avoided by playing on the platforms and avoiding the ground altogether.
Run around spamming jolts like a madman. Your goal is to get peach off the ground.
usually, she tries to float underneath you (you always want to run back to the top platform) and try to poke you with aerials.
You can jump over them, CC at low percent, or shield.
I'm a fan of either avoiding them, or using shielddrop aerials (usually uair) to put her in a bad position (she does not want to be above you)
You can also use agility OoS to get underneath her (PAs are ideal, obviously) and then trap her with uairs and thunders and all that fun stuff to wrack up as much percent as you can, then once she gets down, repeat the process.
This matchup can be slow and repetitive, but pretty much you're going to do that as much as you can to gain percent, then try to get an upsmash or get her offstage with nair.
Edgeguarding peach is tough, but pichu is capable of doing it. You aren't pikachu, but you still have a really solid edgeguard game.
rising double jump nairs from underneath are your best friend.
jolts will knock peach from her float or force her to put her umbrella down, which makes her vulnerable for a short period of time.
you can also create off stage thunder walls to stop her from just floating to the ledge.
This was one of the matchups where I started implementing Derf Hops to edgeguard, but they take set up and can be difficult to learn how to time.
6. Peach
--Stages of Choice:--
*It's difficult to say which stages are best for this matchup, because it changes depending on the style of peach.
1. BF platforms are your best friend in this matchup. You're going to spend most of your time running around peach, and the position of the top platform makes this very easy.
2. PS I'm personally not a fan, because you lose your top platform, but you can kill peach off the top pretty quickly. You can also stop peach from getting to you in certain transformations via thunder.
Yoshi's and Dreamland are iffy stages that depend on the peach. Dreamland gives you a lot of room to run, but peach is not gonna die. As for yoshi's, peach dies, but she corners you really fast. These days there are a lot more aggressive peach players, and they love yoshi's.
FoD is another iffy stage, I love FoD in general, but like yoshi's, you have no room. You also have a low ceiling (it takes longer to kill peach), close side blast zones (she kills you faster), and peach loves the platforms on this stage (you can utilt through them and stuff, but watch out for those low blenders)
FD is your worst choice, in my opinion. Having platforms and staying off the ground is super important.
---
Alright, on to the fun stuff:
This matchup requires you to be moving. A lot. You need to develop strong platform mobility, which is why I'm such a huge fan of battlefield.
Approaching peach is pretty difficult most of the time, which is why you generally are gonna want her to come to you.
You can sometimes run in with nair if she's on the ground, but while she's floating, you're gonna want to keep your distance.
turnips are pretty much a free approach. Most peach players can't consistently turnip pull cancel (it also puts them in a bad position since they usually have to be on a platform), so if they just stop to pull a turnip, run in with a nair.
once peach has a turnip in her hand, you can force her into shield and there isn't much she can do (still watch out for FC aerials OoS though).
learning to catch turnips helps a lot, you gain a projectile that doesn't hurt you, and pichu's aerial item throw is pretty decent.
it's easiest to catch them from a crouch or standing still, but you can still catch them in the air, so just practice.
ok now general peach tip:
unless peach dash attacks or jabs/tilts, this
(crouch canceling) is a terrible idea. If you cc a downsmash, you're going to take up to 80%. fortunately, pichu's crouch cancel sucks, so you usually won't take the full 80%, but generally speaking, you're gonna have a bad time, so only CC if you know for a fact that you're getting away with it.Shielding while peach is floating is also questionable (aka bad), because an FC aerial on your shield gives peach a major opening and she can shield pressure really well. Don't try to shield grab an FC aerial. If you do shield an aerial, peach will do one of these three things:
1. jab. this stops shield grabs. (usually followed by: )
2. grab. usually a mix up.
3. dsmash. that just eats your shield up.
so yeah. those are solid options, you might get lucky and read a grab and spotdodge it or buffer roll out or something, but generally, shielding is bad (unless you're on a platform)
Both of these scenarios are completely avoided by playing on the platforms and avoiding the ground altogether.
Run around spamming jolts like a madman. Your goal is to get peach off the ground.
usually, she tries to float underneath you (you always want to run back to the top platform) and try to poke you with aerials.
You can jump over them, CC at low percent, or shield.
I'm a fan of either avoiding them, or using shielddrop aerials (usually uair) to put her in a bad position (she does not want to be above you)
You can also use agility OoS to get underneath her (PAs are ideal, obviously) and then trap her with uairs and thunders and all that fun stuff to wrack up as much percent as you can, then once she gets down, repeat the process.
This matchup can be slow and repetitive, but pretty much you're going to do that as much as you can to gain percent, then try to get an upsmash or get her offstage with nair.
Edgeguarding peach is tough, but pichu is capable of doing it. You aren't pikachu, but you still have a really solid edgeguard game.
rising double jump nairs from underneath are your best friend.
jolts will knock peach from her float or force her to put her umbrella down, which makes her vulnerable for a short period of time.
you can also create off stage thunder walls to stop her from just floating to the ledge.
This was one of the matchups where I started implementing Derf Hops to edgeguard, but they take set up and can be difficult to learn how to time.
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DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I mean you don't need to get rid of either, the op is a compilation, I'm still going to write up every matchup (specifically top 8).
@
Comet7
Battlefield is fine against ICs, the platforms help you a lot. It is a small stage, but the top platform is pretty high up, and that can be difficult for ICs since they fall slow, they are pretty much just gonna pressure with uairs.But ICs don't have a bad stage. So just go where you are comfortable.
I don't recommend FD, since there are no platforms. Stadium is also a bad call.
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proxibomb
Smash Clown
I reread the whole thing, didn't really like what I wrote. That reminds me, dude, we should Pichu test sometime if we ever meet at a tournament! I'll have another matchup tomorrow, going to a tournament to test out some tactics, the local tournament I go to knows me as a guy who mains Pichu, so every will be trying their best.I mean you don't need to get rid of either, the op is a compilation, I'm still going to write up every matchup (specifically top 8).
@
But ICs don't have a bad stage. So just go where you are comfortable.
I don't recommend FD, since there are no platforms. Stadium is also a bad call.
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DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
haha alright. I mean, I'm working on these pichu video tutorials right now to try and show everything I know, but there is still a lot of stuff I have on the theory table.
proxibomb
Smash Clown
Could you work over netplay? I could possibly help, but this is just me? Maybe even get multiple Pichu mains in on this. Again, maybe this is just me.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I don't like using netplay, even though the lag problem is a lot better now, it still messes me up a little too much in regards to more technical things.
but if you have specific questions feel free to ask.
try to keep it in the general discussion or my video thread, or just create your own thread for that matter.
I think it's best to keep this thread on topic of matchup discussion and whatnot.
but if you have specific questions feel free to ask.
try to keep it in the general discussion or my video thread, or just create your own thread for that matter.
I think it's best to keep this thread on topic of matchup discussion and whatnot.
Comet7
Smash Lord
How's f-tilt against dealing with Peach? I haven't played a peach yet, soI don't know what it beats. Also, is u-tilt to f-tilt on Fox / Falco to get him off stage a good idea? Tbe logic behind it is that u-tilt pops him up, and f-tilt beats whatever he tries to do.
N1c2k3
Smash Lord
If someone wants to add to the MU sections, should we be using the same color-coding as above? I there a system/key that is commonly used that could be referenced?
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
yeah it's pretty solid.
you can also use pivot dsmash, which is my favorite, since it semi-spikes.
Nah man, just type it up however you want, that's just how I'm formatting my posts.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
7. Falcon
--Stages of Choice:--
1. FD Obvious choice against fastfallers, you can chaingrab until about kill percent, or at least get him offstage, which should mean he's dead.
2. DL Space is pretty cool in this matchup, Falcon lives kinda longer, but you should be able to gimp him basically whenever. You'll live longer too, so it's not too bad.
3. FoD Falcon is probably gonna ban it out of principle, but he doesn't have a lot of room to run, and the platforms are weird for him. I don't actually think it's too bad for him, but you can abuse the low platforms with utilts and stuff. You'll die fast though.
Yoshi's is probably a pretty bad idea, because you're gonna die from two knees.
---
This matchup is really straight forward, you grab falcon, you combo him a bunch, then you get him offstage, then you abuse his joke of a recovery and try to kill him as fast as possible.
Or, he grabs you, chaingrabs you with dthrow, and then knees you twice and you die.
Approaching falcon is actually kind of easy, just make sure you overshoot your nairs so you don't get dd grabbed.
When you're getting comboed with uairs and stuff, try to DI down and away, you're probably gonna die anyway because falcon autocombos you for free, but it'll help a little.
Anyway, you want to approach with nair->uair or utilt crossups, or late-nair->grab or just empty short hop to grab.
at the end of the day, you really want to get a grab.
depending on your position and falcon's percent, you can just uthrow chaingrab, or even tech-chase with either uthrow or dthrow, and try to get him close to the edge and then get him offstage with bthrow, dsmash, nair, fsmash, ftilt, or dtilt
then you shoot a bunch of jolts to knock him out of his doublejump and pretty much just keep hitting him to keep him off stage.
A useful tip: if you start your fsmash animation around when he begins his upB coming from under the stage, he'll run into the final hit of it, which basically kills him since he can't SDI out.
Falcon's recovery is pretty predictable, so if he's coming from way off stage, a well placed jolt->nair is a dead falcon.
I'm a huge fan of down-angled ftilts and jabs for edgeguarding because they're pretty impossible to tech and keep falcon in a terrible position.
The only other thing is to try and avoid being on platforms too often, because falcon wants you to be above him so he can start uair chains. It's good to trap him up there, but very bad if he traps you.
-----
@
LiteralGrill
if we could get this thread updated soon, that'd be awesome.
--Stages of Choice:--
1. FD Obvious choice against fastfallers, you can chaingrab until about kill percent, or at least get him offstage, which should mean he's dead.
2. DL Space is pretty cool in this matchup, Falcon lives kinda longer, but you should be able to gimp him basically whenever. You'll live longer too, so it's not too bad.
3. FoD Falcon is probably gonna ban it out of principle, but he doesn't have a lot of room to run, and the platforms are weird for him. I don't actually think it's too bad for him, but you can abuse the low platforms with utilts and stuff. You'll die fast though.
Yoshi's is probably a pretty bad idea, because you're gonna die from two knees.
---
This matchup is really straight forward, you grab falcon, you combo him a bunch, then you get him offstage, then you abuse his joke of a recovery and try to kill him as fast as possible.
Or, he grabs you, chaingrabs you with dthrow, and then knees you twice and you die.
Approaching falcon is actually kind of easy, just make sure you overshoot your nairs so you don't get dd grabbed.
When you're getting comboed with uairs and stuff, try to DI down and away, you're probably gonna die anyway because falcon autocombos you for free, but it'll help a little.
Anyway, you want to approach with nair->uair or utilt crossups, or late-nair->grab or just empty short hop to grab.
at the end of the day, you really want to get a grab.
depending on your position and falcon's percent, you can just uthrow chaingrab, or even tech-chase with either uthrow or dthrow, and try to get him close to the edge and then get him offstage with bthrow, dsmash, nair, fsmash, ftilt, or dtilt
then you shoot a bunch of jolts to knock him out of his doublejump and pretty much just keep hitting him to keep him off stage.
A useful tip: if you start your fsmash animation around when he begins his upB coming from under the stage, he'll run into the final hit of it, which basically kills him since he can't SDI out.
Falcon's recovery is pretty predictable, so if he's coming from way off stage, a well placed jolt->nair is a dead falcon.
I'm a huge fan of down-angled ftilts and jabs for edgeguarding because they're pretty impossible to tech and keep falcon in a terrible position.
The only other thing is to try and avoid being on platforms too often, because falcon wants you to be above him so he can start uair chains. It's good to trap him up there, but very bad if he traps you.
-----
@
LiteralGrill
if we could get this thread updated soon, that'd be awesome.
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DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
8. Ice Climbers
--Stages of Choice:--
1. BF The key to this matchup is mobility and platform camping to force ICs off the ground. Battlefield's high top platform makes this easier to do. The platform positions also make moving as Pichu a lot easier via edgecancels and whatnot.
2. DL Essentially the exact same concept as battlefield, the top platform is a tiny bit lower, but not enough to matter. There is a lot more room to run on this stage though, and you'll be able to live a little longer, but so will the ICs.
Avoid:
FD: while it isn't always as incredible of a stage for ICs as people make it out to be, you lose your platforms, which is a death sentence in this matchup.
Stadium: No top platform, it's also an amazing ICs stage. You'll die off the top from ICs upsmash at about 50%.
I'd also be very careful with Yoshi's or FoD, because ICs love both those stages. You die fast and lose a lot of room to run. You can still camp the top platform of both stages, but it's a little harder on yoshi's.
---
I'm just gonna be honest here, this matchup is hard. The only matchups that even comes close to this level of difficulty are sheik or doc. This matchup was considered 100-0 for a long time.
I don't believe any matchup is unwinnable, but yeah you better be a lot better than your opponent. At least study the hell out of the matchup.
But I digress;
You can not approach ICs. They're going to block you out with blizzard walls and cover everything with wavedash back-> grab/dsmash/fsmash/ftilt/???
In short: approaching is bad. Terrible idea. They basically cover all your options with ftilt alone.
If they are desynced and just walling you with projectiles, you can shoot an aerial jolt at them (I never want to see any of you use a grounded jolt ever, just for clarification) and try to mess up their timing and just be annoying (you'll probably hit nana and mess up her synchronization)
Generally, you want to be on platforms shooting jolts or jumping around up on the top platform.
Like I said before, the idea is to get ICs off the ground.
They are way faster than you on the ground and bottom platforms, but they take awhile to get down from the top, so you can get underneath them and start juggling with uairs and throw in some thunders if they get high up, it's pretty similar to dealing with peach.
When ICs jump up to pressure you with uairs, you can shield drop into fair or nair and then do a rising uair and trap them on top of the platform.
you can also just upB OoS to the floor and then jump up with a uair or nair or whatever you feel like.
Every once in awhile, you'll find yourself in an awkward position where you can use fsmash (generally if the ICs try to recover from bellow with upB or approach with jab or a raw grab or you read a ledgedash->grab or something). It's sort of high risk, high reward.
It's a multihit move, so it will desync the ICs (nana can't SDI out of multihitting moves) and even though popo will usually escape, nana usually takes the whole hit (also works with fair or thunder). Risky though, because if popo SDI's in he can grab you, which means you die.
Now that we're on the subject, getting grabbed sucks. Sopo will chain grab you until like 60%, at which point dthrow-> any smash will kill you.
If they get a synced grab, you get wobbled, so don't let that happen. (don't run into blizzards)
They can also dthrow-dair cg you, but I'm not sure why they would, since that's escapable, by DIing down and away and buffering a roll (try to mix up how you roll)
If you get grabbed by the ledge, you're getting hand-offed until death (Pichu is one of the easiest characters to handoff, so yeah, you're pretty boned)
Now then, if you get a grab, and there are both climbers, fthrow immediately. It knocks the other climber away from you and keeps you pretty safe.
If it's just one climber, dthrow is pretty awesome and all that fun stuff. Leads into usmash or nair.
I said earlier that approaching sucks, and it does, but if you feel an excessive need to run in there for some reason, fair works better than nair in most cases. Usually puts you in-between them, which is cool because you can separate them.
Once they're separated, it's a lot easier, but sopo still chaingrabs you til death, but his only real grab set up is jab and you can approach him a little more easily, but wavedash back still covers all your options.
Stopping ICs recovery is tricky. During their upB, Nana is invincible, popo is not. If you hit popo out of their upB (thunder will pass through nana and hit popo if you have time to set it up) he usually can't grab nana again.
if they do rising sideB from bellow, you can dair through it or fastfall nair (I usually prefer dair)
Getting rid of sopo is way easier. You can just rising nair through his sideB.
Try to use jolts to knock him out of his doublejump, if he gets close to the stage, ice climbers like to airdodge. bait it out with empty jumps and jolts and then you can just grab and bthrow off stage or dsmash and repeat the process.
Anyway, at the end of the day, this matchup is horrendous. You want to platform camp ICs for as long as you can and get as many nairs in as possible at higher percents.
Pichu has a tough time separating them, but if you can get nana offstage, you can kill her really easily, and that makes the matchup a bit easier. Sopo still wrecks you though.
--Stages of Choice:--
1. BF The key to this matchup is mobility and platform camping to force ICs off the ground. Battlefield's high top platform makes this easier to do. The platform positions also make moving as Pichu a lot easier via edgecancels and whatnot.
2. DL Essentially the exact same concept as battlefield, the top platform is a tiny bit lower, but not enough to matter. There is a lot more room to run on this stage though, and you'll be able to live a little longer, but so will the ICs.
Avoid:
FD: while it isn't always as incredible of a stage for ICs as people make it out to be, you lose your platforms, which is a death sentence in this matchup.
Stadium: No top platform, it's also an amazing ICs stage. You'll die off the top from ICs upsmash at about 50%.
I'd also be very careful with Yoshi's or FoD, because ICs love both those stages. You die fast and lose a lot of room to run. You can still camp the top platform of both stages, but it's a little harder on yoshi's.
---
I'm just gonna be honest here, this matchup is hard. The only matchups that even comes close to this level of difficulty are sheik or doc. This matchup was considered 100-0 for a long time.
I don't believe any matchup is unwinnable, but yeah you better be a lot better than your opponent. At least study the hell out of the matchup.
But I digress;
You can not approach ICs. They're going to block you out with blizzard walls and cover everything with wavedash back-> grab/dsmash/fsmash/ftilt/???
In short: approaching is bad. Terrible idea. They basically cover all your options with ftilt alone.
If they are desynced and just walling you with projectiles, you can shoot an aerial jolt at them (I never want to see any of you use a grounded jolt ever, just for clarification) and try to mess up their timing and just be annoying (you'll probably hit nana and mess up her synchronization)
Generally, you want to be on platforms shooting jolts or jumping around up on the top platform.
Like I said before, the idea is to get ICs off the ground.
They are way faster than you on the ground and bottom platforms, but they take awhile to get down from the top, so you can get underneath them and start juggling with uairs and throw in some thunders if they get high up, it's pretty similar to dealing with peach.
When ICs jump up to pressure you with uairs, you can shield drop into fair or nair and then do a rising uair and trap them on top of the platform.
you can also just upB OoS to the floor and then jump up with a uair or nair or whatever you feel like.
Every once in awhile, you'll find yourself in an awkward position where you can use fsmash (generally if the ICs try to recover from bellow with upB or approach with jab or a raw grab or you read a ledgedash->grab or something). It's sort of high risk, high reward.
It's a multihit move, so it will desync the ICs (nana can't SDI out of multihitting moves) and even though popo will usually escape, nana usually takes the whole hit (also works with fair or thunder). Risky though, because if popo SDI's in he can grab you, which means you die.
Now that we're on the subject, getting grabbed sucks. Sopo will chain grab you until like 60%, at which point dthrow-> any smash will kill you.
If they get a synced grab, you get wobbled, so don't let that happen. (don't run into blizzards)
They can also dthrow-dair cg you, but I'm not sure why they would, since that's escapable, by DIing down and away and buffering a roll (try to mix up how you roll)
If you get grabbed by the ledge, you're getting hand-offed until death (Pichu is one of the easiest characters to handoff, so yeah, you're pretty boned)
Now then, if you get a grab, and there are both climbers, fthrow immediately. It knocks the other climber away from you and keeps you pretty safe.
If it's just one climber, dthrow is pretty awesome and all that fun stuff. Leads into usmash or nair.
I said earlier that approaching sucks, and it does, but if you feel an excessive need to run in there for some reason, fair works better than nair in most cases. Usually puts you in-between them, which is cool because you can separate them.
Once they're separated, it's a lot easier, but sopo still chaingrabs you til death, but his only real grab set up is jab and you can approach him a little more easily, but wavedash back still covers all your options.
Stopping ICs recovery is tricky. During their upB, Nana is invincible, popo is not. If you hit popo out of their upB (thunder will pass through nana and hit popo if you have time to set it up) he usually can't grab nana again.
if they do rising sideB from bellow, you can dair through it or fastfall nair (I usually prefer dair)
Getting rid of sopo is way easier. You can just rising nair through his sideB.
Try to use jolts to knock him out of his doublejump, if he gets close to the stage, ice climbers like to airdodge. bait it out with empty jumps and jolts and then you can just grab and bthrow off stage or dsmash and repeat the process.
Anyway, at the end of the day, this matchup is horrendous. You want to platform camp ICs for as long as you can and get as many nairs in as possible at higher percents.
Pichu has a tough time separating them, but if you can get nana offstage, you can kill her really easily, and that makes the matchup a bit easier. Sopo still wrecks you though.
Comet7
Smash Lord
Oh god, and I thought Marth was bad...
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Marth is definitely still bad, but yeah, it's rooough.
Pichu has several matchups like that, but ICs are beyond bad.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
9. Samus
--Stages of Choice:--
1. BF Great stage if you want to go the platform play-style, which I do. The ledges also make it a little difficult for samus to recover, but it doesn't drastically effect the matchup with more experienced samus players.
2. FD This is pretty much the exact opposite, no platforms whatsoever. This makes it so samus can't make missile barrages as freely. The blastzones are pretty far though, and the walls of the stage go down pretty far, so samus can live pretty long on this stage.
The other legal stages really depend on the samus. More aggressive samus players love yoshi's and FoD. More campy samus players love Dreamland and Stadium.
I think FoD is decent for pichu in the matchup, you need to watch for samus's uptilts through platforms more, but missiles are less of a problem. Samus can recovery from reeeaally low though.
Stadium actually isn't that bad either, you can kill samus off the top pretty quickly, and she usually doesn't survive until 200+%, you don't have a top platform though.
If the samus is missile happy, yoshi's can make that weird with shyguys occasionally getting in the way and the smaller stage gives her less room to run.
---
Alright, this is an odd matchup.
First things first; lets talk about missiles.
Pichu is tiny and has weird high priority moves that will cover his body, so he can actually weave through missiles pretty well.
When you're on the ground, ftilt and utilt.
In the air; nair and bair.
You can also dash attack through them, but pichu's dash attack is kinda laggy, so I don't like to use it.
A lot of samus players will approach you (often behind a missile) with jab, dash attack, dsmash (usually at higher percents) or occasionally dair, fair, or late nair. In general, if you know what to do, samus isn't very good at approaching pichu.
at low percent you can CC all of those, when you can't CC, ftilt will clank will all the grounded moves, utilt will stop all the aerials (spaced fair being the exception, but you can CC that until pretty high percent).
Don't approach samus if she's on the ground unless she whiffs a grab or does a grounded missile or something else laggy. Any other time, she's just gonna wavedash back into jab, ftilt, fsmash, dsmash, or utilt. Those are all things you'd rather avoid.
Jolts are actually pretty annoying for samus, so I like playing on platforms with a lot of jolts to give samus a little motivation to come to me.
Comboing samus is weird, she's got an odd weight and her nair comes out on frame 3 or 4 or something (I'm not sure, but it's fast and interrupts combos well). Usually, I like to chain nairs together across the stage or use uairs and utilts to juggle her.
Killing samus takes awhile. Your main goals in terms of killing her are to either use upsmash to kill her off the top or to use nairs too keep her offstage.
Edgeguarding samus is a trying experience that takes some patience, but Pichu is definitely capable.
I use a lot of offstage thunders and derf hops or roll jolts around the stage to catch her out of her grapple.
You can also just drop on her with a nair too, it's pretty effective.
When she's bombing around, thunders and jolts to annoy her. Then just run in with nair and she can't do much about it.
I'm a fan of jolt->nairs on samus since her movement in the air is slow.
only thing to worry about is her nair out of a bomb jump, but you can use your double jump to bait that out.
Same concept if she has a charge shot.
You really want to bait her double jump out, because that makes it a lot harder for her to recover.
If she's coming up from bellow you and you're on the ledge, invincible nairs are pretty awesome at stopping her upB (hitting samus out of her upB also makes her lose her charge shot).
--Stages of Choice:--
1. BF Great stage if you want to go the platform play-style, which I do. The ledges also make it a little difficult for samus to recover, but it doesn't drastically effect the matchup with more experienced samus players.
2. FD This is pretty much the exact opposite, no platforms whatsoever. This makes it so samus can't make missile barrages as freely. The blastzones are pretty far though, and the walls of the stage go down pretty far, so samus can live pretty long on this stage.
The other legal stages really depend on the samus. More aggressive samus players love yoshi's and FoD. More campy samus players love Dreamland and Stadium.
I think FoD is decent for pichu in the matchup, you need to watch for samus's uptilts through platforms more, but missiles are less of a problem. Samus can recovery from reeeaally low though.
Stadium actually isn't that bad either, you can kill samus off the top pretty quickly, and she usually doesn't survive until 200+%, you don't have a top platform though.
If the samus is missile happy, yoshi's can make that weird with shyguys occasionally getting in the way and the smaller stage gives her less room to run.
---
Alright, this is an odd matchup.
First things first; lets talk about missiles.
Pichu is tiny and has weird high priority moves that will cover his body, so he can actually weave through missiles pretty well.
When you're on the ground, ftilt and utilt.
In the air; nair and bair.
You can also dash attack through them, but pichu's dash attack is kinda laggy, so I don't like to use it.
A lot of samus players will approach you (often behind a missile) with jab, dash attack, dsmash (usually at higher percents) or occasionally dair, fair, or late nair. In general, if you know what to do, samus isn't very good at approaching pichu.
at low percent you can CC all of those, when you can't CC, ftilt will clank will all the grounded moves, utilt will stop all the aerials (spaced fair being the exception, but you can CC that until pretty high percent).
Don't approach samus if she's on the ground unless she whiffs a grab or does a grounded missile or something else laggy. Any other time, she's just gonna wavedash back into jab, ftilt, fsmash, dsmash, or utilt. Those are all things you'd rather avoid.
Jolts are actually pretty annoying for samus, so I like playing on platforms with a lot of jolts to give samus a little motivation to come to me.
Comboing samus is weird, she's got an odd weight and her nair comes out on frame 3 or 4 or something (I'm not sure, but it's fast and interrupts combos well). Usually, I like to chain nairs together across the stage or use uairs and utilts to juggle her.
Killing samus takes awhile. Your main goals in terms of killing her are to either use upsmash to kill her off the top or to use nairs too keep her offstage.
Edgeguarding samus is a trying experience that takes some patience, but Pichu is definitely capable.
I use a lot of offstage thunders and derf hops or roll jolts around the stage to catch her out of her grapple.
You can also just drop on her with a nair too, it's pretty effective.
When she's bombing around, thunders and jolts to annoy her. Then just run in with nair and she can't do much about it.
I'm a fan of jolt->nairs on samus since her movement in the air is slow.
only thing to worry about is her nair out of a bomb jump, but you can use your double jump to bait that out.
Same concept if she has a charge shot.
You really want to bait her double jump out, because that makes it a lot harder for her to recover.
If she's coming up from bellow you and you're on the ledge, invincible nairs are pretty awesome at stopping her upB (hitting samus out of her upB also makes her lose her charge shot).
proxibomb
Smash Clown
Any idea on the matchup with Pikachu? I assume it would be similar to a Pichu matchup, minus the weight of course. I'm trying to get the matchup for Pikachu, and it's hard to determine.
Of course Pikachu will dominate the match, but I'm sure nairing and predicting Pika's Up B is all you really need right? And what stages too?
Of course Pikachu will dominate the match, but I'm sure nairing and predicting Pika's Up B is all you really need right? And what stages too?
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
10. Pikachu
--Stages of Choice:--
Doesn't actually matter. You'll die really fast on Yoshi's and Stadium, but you'll also kill faster if you land an upsmash.
Dreamland sucks because pika lives forever, but still kills you relatively quickly with a thunderflip. I usually just go to battlefield out of principle.
---
So Pikachu is you. But he's bigger, faster, kills earlier, and lives longer.
It's kind of hard to stop pika from approaching, I just like to ftilt, or if you know how to time your dsmash to abuse the invincibility frames, that works really well, but it takes practice, and it sucks at low percent.
You can uptilt if he overshoots.
You can just shield grab his nair if it's stale, but only if he lands in front of your shield (same applies to you though, just a general tip)
Pika can stop your recovery really well if he's on the ground though, his upsmash and downsmash work really well for blocking you out. he can also wavedash back into fsmash, ftilt, and dtilt really effectively.
But, your nair has a little more priority, so you can challenge him in the air.
Pichu's nair is no joke.
Killing pika is generally easiest off the top, being able to upsmash out of shield is very helpful. thunderflipping kills pika around 70-90%, pika's thunderflip kills you around 60% though, but if you overshoot nair on his shield, he can't hit you with the strong part of his upsmash directly OoS after your nair connects (pichu's upsmash will start behind him, so you get away with it more easily).
pika's recovery is good. Like... best in the game good. You're probably not going to gimp him unless you get a read or if he uses sideB, you can just nair him.
Generally, if he's offstage, you want to hold the ledge and then try to punish if he goes for the stage (pika will do the same to you, most of the time, but you have less land lag from your upB if you land correctly)
When you are recovering, you really don't want to use your sideB unless you have to, because pika will use the opening to tailspike you, and if that happens, you're usually dead, or at the very least, in a bad position.
You can chaingrab pika for a little bit with your dthrow, he has the same dthrow, but the cg doesn't last long because you weigh less. Tech chasing pika is also really easy, because his techrolls are only slightly less terrible than yours.
However pika's standing tech is tied with pichu's for the fastest in the game, so you have to act fast to punish it. tech->usmash is pretty hard for pichu to react to/punish, but at low percent, I cc to cover it and then just react to either roll or a missed tech.
Obviously, being above pika is bad, his uair is massive and disjointed (and really quick), so try to avoid being on the platforms too often (or at least carelessly).
Respect pika on platforms though, his shielddrop game is really solid (shield drop uair is scary).
Also respect pika on the ledge. He has options, and they are really safe. Just stay back and pressure with jolts or use your dash dance outside his range to bait a response.
--Stages of Choice:--
Doesn't actually matter. You'll die really fast on Yoshi's and Stadium, but you'll also kill faster if you land an upsmash.
Dreamland sucks because pika lives forever, but still kills you relatively quickly with a thunderflip. I usually just go to battlefield out of principle.
---
So Pikachu is you. But he's bigger, faster, kills earlier, and lives longer.
It's kind of hard to stop pika from approaching, I just like to ftilt, or if you know how to time your dsmash to abuse the invincibility frames, that works really well, but it takes practice, and it sucks at low percent.
You can uptilt if he overshoots.
You can just shield grab his nair if it's stale, but only if he lands in front of your shield (same applies to you though, just a general tip)
Pika can stop your recovery really well if he's on the ground though, his upsmash and downsmash work really well for blocking you out. he can also wavedash back into fsmash, ftilt, and dtilt really effectively.
But, your nair has a little more priority, so you can challenge him in the air.
Pichu's nair is no joke.
Killing pika is generally easiest off the top, being able to upsmash out of shield is very helpful. thunderflipping kills pika around 70-90%, pika's thunderflip kills you around 60% though, but if you overshoot nair on his shield, he can't hit you with the strong part of his upsmash directly OoS after your nair connects (pichu's upsmash will start behind him, so you get away with it more easily).
pika's recovery is good. Like... best in the game good. You're probably not going to gimp him unless you get a read or if he uses sideB, you can just nair him.
Generally, if he's offstage, you want to hold the ledge and then try to punish if he goes for the stage (pika will do the same to you, most of the time, but you have less land lag from your upB if you land correctly)
When you are recovering, you really don't want to use your sideB unless you have to, because pika will use the opening to tailspike you, and if that happens, you're usually dead, or at the very least, in a bad position.
You can chaingrab pika for a little bit with your dthrow, he has the same dthrow, but the cg doesn't last long because you weigh less. Tech chasing pika is also really easy, because his techrolls are only slightly less terrible than yours.
However pika's standing tech is tied with pichu's for the fastest in the game, so you have to act fast to punish it. tech->usmash is pretty hard for pichu to react to/punish, but at low percent, I cc to cover it and then just react to either roll or a missed tech.
Obviously, being above pika is bad, his uair is massive and disjointed (and really quick), so try to avoid being on the platforms too often (or at least carelessly).
Respect pika on platforms though, his shielddrop game is really solid (shield drop uair is scary).
Also respect pika on the ledge. He has options, and they are really safe. Just stay back and pressure with jolts or use your dash dance outside his range to bait a response.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
haha good timing. Just finished writing it.
Feel free to ask more specific questions after reading, I'm happy to answer.
Comet7
Smash Lord
So basically wait for Pika to mess up
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I mean that's kind of just how the game works in general, but you can poke the bear to try and force it to mess up.
I like to dash dance in and out of pika's range, use retreating jolts, all that fun stuff.
You can approach, but just know pika does have the tools to handle it.
same way you do have the tools to stop pika from approaching, but he's probably still gonna get in a lot.
I like to dash dance in and out of pika's range, use retreating jolts, all that fun stuff.
You can approach, but just know pika does have the tools to handle it.
same way you do have the tools to stop pika from approaching, but he's probably still gonna get in a lot.
proxibomb
Smash Clown
I'll have Yoshi and Mewtwo up soon, need to do more research before I can confirm anything.
Comet7
Smash Lord
How much damage does yoshi need to have for Pichu's thunder to stop his jump? I know for Pikachu in PM it's 18%.
Also surprised thunderflipping on yoshi's isn't mentioned in the jiggly matchup... If you can chain a few up airs, puff is dead. :D
Also surprised thunderflipping on yoshi's isn't mentioned in the jiggly matchup... If you can chain a few up airs, puff is dead. :D
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