The PCT Tiering Project

[UltiMario]

Since Smogon's tiers are no longer legitimate to us with the changes, we'll have to keep track of our own.

In combination of our SmashCAP, NU to OU changes, and our opinions, we will make tiers regarding our metagame.

Here are the current PCT tierings:

[collapse=Ubers]Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-A
Deoxys-D
Deoxys-S
Dialga
Garchomp
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Kyogre
Latias
Latios
Lugia
Manaphy
Mew
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Shaymin-S
Wobbuffet
Wynaut[/collapse]

[collapse=OU]Aerodactyl
Azelf
Blissey
Breloom
Bronzong
Calderan
Celebi
Dragonite
Dusknoir
Electivire
Empoleon
Flygon
Forretress
Gengar
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heatran
Heracross
Hippowdon
Infernape
Jirachi
Jolteon
Kingdra
Latias
Lilibelle
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Metagross
Ninjask
Roserade
Rotom-A
Salamence
Scizor
Skarmory
Smeargle
Snorlax
Starmie
Suicune
Swampert
Tentacruel
Togekiss
Tyranitar
Umbreon
Vaporeon
Weavile
Zapdos[/collapse]

[collapse=BL]Abomasnow
Cresselia
Crobat
Froslass
Gallade
Honchkrow
Porygon-Z
Raikou
Shaymin
Staraptor
Yanmega
Zook[/collapse]

[collapse=UU]Absol
Aggron
Alakazam
Altaria
Ambipom
Arcanine
Azumarill
Blastoise
Blaziken
Chansey
Claydol
Clefable
Cloyster
Donphan
Drapion
Dugtrio
Feraligatr
Hariyama
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Houndoom
Kabutops
Lanturn
Leafeon
Ludicolo
Mesprit
Milotic
Miltank
Mismagius
Moltres
Nidoking
Omastar
Poliwrath
Regirock
Registeel
Rhyperior
Rotom
Sceptile
Scyther
Slowbro
Slowking
Spiritomb
Steelix
Swellow
Tangrowth
Torterra
Toxicroak
Uxie
Venusaur
Weezing[/collapse]

[collapse=NU]Ampharos
Arbok
Ariados
Armaldo
Articuno
Banette
Bastiodon
Beautifly
Beedrill
Bellossom
Bibarel
Butterfree
Cacturne
Camerupt
Carnivine
Castform
Charizard
Chatot
Cherrim
Chimecho
Clamperl
Corsola
Cradily
Crawdaunt
Delcatty
Delibird
Dewgong
Ditto
Dodrio
Drifblim
Dunsparce
Dustox
Electrode
Entei
Espeon
Exeggutor
Exploud
Farfetch'd
Fearow
Flareon
Floatzel
Furret
Gardevoir
Gastrodon
Girafarig
Glaceon
Glalie
Golduck
Golem
Gorebyss
Granbull
Grumpig
Hitmonchan
Huntail
Hypno
Illumise
Jumpluff
Jynx
Kangaskhan
Kecleon
Kingler
Kricketune
Lapras
Ledian
Lickilicky
Linoone
Lopunny
Lumineon
Lunatone
Luvdisc
Luxray
Magcargo
Magmortar
Magneton
Manectric
Mantine
Marowak
Masquerain
Mawile
Medicham
Meganium
Mightyena
Minun
Mothim
Mr. Mime
Muk
Nidoqueen
Ninetales
Noctowl
Octillery
Pachirisu
Parasect
Pelipper
Persian
Phione
Pidgeot
Pikachu
Pinsir
Plusle
Politoed
Porygon2
Primeape
Probopass
Purugly
Quagsire
Qwilfish
Raichu
Rampardos
Rapidash
Raticate
Regice
Regigigas
Relicanth
Sableye
Sandslash
Seaking
Seviper
Sharpedo
Shedinja
Shiftry
Shuckle
Skuntank
Slaking
Solrock
Spinda
Stantler
Sudowoodo
Sunflora
Swalot
Tauros
Torkoal
Trapinch
Tropius
Typhlosion
Unown
Ursaring
Venomoth
Vespiquen
Victreebe
Vigoroth
Vileplume
Volbeat
Wailord
Walrein
Whiscash
Wigglytuff
Wormadam
Wormadam-G
Wormadam-S
Xatu
Zangoose
[/collapse]

So, with that out of the way, let's get discussing!...

 

[Metal~Mario]

Will we be implementing this into Machamp's Pants?

Looks good otherwise.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

If we can actually implement these changes then it's fine. We can just bring the discussion of suspects and etc. into this thread, whereas the metagame retains actually dealing with / voting on said suspects. The PokeCenter Server thread will be used for technical discussions.

I do want to close this round soon so we can start working on new Pokemon.

 

[Wave⁂]

We're all quite aware Smogon has no idea what they're doing anymore.

Stopped reading there

 

[CRASHiC]

The players who voted Salemence to Uber are better players than all of you, stop pouting. If you disagree with what they do, then become a top player, stir up a comotion, go into the council and then vote.

We have Sharpedo, Rampardose, and Electrode with Stealth Rocks running around. I don't believe we need to sac Salemence to Uber. Where I question though is Latias. From what I saw before I became busy, there wasn't any pokemon we had made that cried Uber. None of the pokemon we had made were overly broken in any regurad. There was some concern adressed towards Rampardose. What has become of the initial fears of him? Personally, I'd much rather we rid him of Rock Polish than send him to Ubers. That would be much more effective.

Also, we can implement this. I have the power to change tier regulations for the server. I'll find out how to check Pokemon statistics later. WE SHOULD NOT DECIDED OU UU AND SUCH BY ANYTHING OTHER THAN USE. Tery's thread is for discussing if a pokemon is VIABLE in OU. This is for discussion on their actual tier, which is done by usage except for BL and Uber of course.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I put in a request for this to be stickied but yeah.

Will we be able to at least view some of the IRC discussions from the Smogon Council?

 

[Firus]

Good idea for a project. Better to do something than just idly disagree. Stickied.

 

[UltiMario]

I was looking for this thread for like two minutes just to realize it got a sticky.

I guess I'm too used to getting my threads locked like **** or something.

Also, to make this a worthwhile post.....

Salemence

Lol

We have Sharpedo, Rampardose, and Electrode with Stealth Rocks running around. I don't believe we need to sac Salemence to Uber.

Out of any of those it's Sharpedo. It's the Dragon destroyer. Its mere existence causes DDMence to fear even TRYING to set up and forces MixMence to go around. Nice change of pace, limits mence, more predictability etc. Yeah, I agree with OU for him.

There was some concern adressed towards Rampardos. What has become of the initial fears of him? Personally, I'd much rather we rid him of Rock Polish than send him to Ubers. That would be much more effective.

Rampardos? Ubers?
I think you forget he has the worst defensive (albeit a good offensive) typing in the game, a lot more than you think can take a Head Smash or EQ off +0 Attack, and OHKO back. Calderan can wreck RP Rampardos, Skarm stops it, and more can just plain kill it (Scarfers with respectable speed stats, Priority). More people are complaining about Jumpluff than Ramp.

Also, we can implement this. I have the power to change tier regulations for the server. I'll find out how to check Pokemon statistics later. WE SHOULD NOT DECIDED OU UU AND SUCH BY ANYTHING OTHER THAN USE. Tery's thread is for discussing if a pokemon is VIABLE in OU. This is for discussion on their actual tier, which is done by usage except for BL and Uber of course.

Except we're about one hundred players short of being able to make any sense from usage statistics. If nobody is using Weavile in OU, does that make it UU? No, it means we don't have enough people for the variety to have Weavile usage.

We need to work a little harder than usage for tiers.


EDIT:
Edited the OP to make this less of a hate thread.

 

[mood4food77]

yea, we need way more people in order to make a list of OU pokemon

jumpluff is wayyyy worse than sharpedo
our sharpedo is actually like salamence, it pretty much only has checks and can destroy a team singlehandedly, he also singlehandedly makes dragon types not as useful

pretty much, he's a good reason to not use salamence

sharpedo, jumpluff, and electrode all become OU pokes
calderan and lilibelle are OU
typhlosion and fearow are still NU
the others are UU

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'm pretty sure everyone said Fearow still sucks, so Fearow would also be NU.

 

[CRASHiC]

Salemence is much closer to Weavile and Scizor than Sharpedo.

 

[UltiMario]

Question.

Does anyone here argue to ban Mence?

If nobody does, then we might as well put him in OU now.

 

[Fuelbi]

Question.

Does anyone here argue to ban Mence?

If nobody does, then we might as well put him in OU now.

No, I want him to be OU. There are many ways to stop Mence, so there really shouldn't be any reason to make him Ubers

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Vote: Salamence is OU

*Said the insignificant UU player*

 

[UltiMario]

Not getting many voters here.

If no one opposes Mence to OU in the next 15 hours (too lazy to wait 24 X_X) I'll move him to OU on the list.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

There's currently only 3 votes for having Salamence be OU. No other votes have been spoken of.

 

[UltiMario]

Nobody is voting against him, or really saying anything. If nobody is speaking against Mence being Ubers after a weeks warn, and since the entire Mence discussion that happened was pretty much Anti-ban, it's pretty safe to assume people want Mence OU.

Latias and others are a different story, though, they'll get more time.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'd suggest waiting until after the next batch of NUs (which will hopefully be soon) before donig revotes on Latias if that's completely necessary.

 

[UltiMario]

K, that's reasonable.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

K, that's reasonable.

You might as well just wait until tomorrow night to confirm the opinions on Salamence. If nobody posts then we leave him as an OU Pokemon.

 

[Wave⁂]

I think Salamence is Uber, but I'd rather not get in your guys' ways.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I think Salamence is Uber, but I'd rather not get in your guys' ways.

It's still a vote, and I'll be taking it into account.

 

[mood4food77]

this isn't the regular metagame

with sharpedo, we almost make dragon's obsolete as he's such a fearsome force
only Mamoswine's Ice shard is stronger but sharpedo doesn't need speed to be a force since he can run an entirely (and fearsome) moveset using just priority. And he's also naturally faster than mamoswine, and with having a base SpA of 95, he can actually run a mixed set quite well

salamence stays unbanned

 

[UltiMario]

And by a majority vote, Mence will stay OU.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

And by a majority vote, Mence will stay OU.

Yeah, like a majority of like three haha.

We should get working on solidifying or creating new NU Pokemon.

 

[UltiMario]

I'd like to make a mention that Wynaut is not banned in OU (or possibly UU or NU) on our server due to that being copypasted from the beta server, who also doesn't have it banned. We could get in some Wynaut Suspect Testing or something over some time.

 

[Wave⁂]

There's been some informal Wynaut testing by Smogoners.

General consensus is that it's pretty good. Custap + Destiny Bond and Tickle + CB Pursuit are awesome or something.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

We'll throw Wynaut with SmashCAP 3 and the second batch of NU changes, then.

 

[UltiMario]

There's been some informal Wynaut testing by Smogoners.

General consensus is that it's pretty good. Custap + Destiny Bond and Tickle + CB Pursuit are awesome or something.

Not really. I've been part of the test was well. Wynaut is underwhelming. It dies in 3 hits to EVERYTHING, and normally gets KO'd in 2, and that 2HKO rarely puts it in the 25% zone to Custap Destiny Bond. It can't countercoat due to being unable to switch in and live, and its ability to encore is rather.... limited....

If I had to choose between who would be less powerful in OU, Mence or Wynaut, heck, even Infernape or Wynaut, I'd choose Wynaut.

 

[CRASHiC]

Bringing Wynaut down is not something I want because of the inevitable Prisoner's Dellima when you have two Wynaut's on the field.

 

[UltiMario]

That was a problem in Gen III, it was corrected in Gen IV. When two Pokemon with Shadow Tag are out, they cancel eachother out and can both switch.

 

[Wave⁂]

The problem CRASHiC is talking about isn't the Shadow Tag thing in gen III.

Suppose your lead Machamp is out doing its stuff. Your opponent has a lead Azelf. You go for the Payback. It outspeeds and just Explodes.

You send out Wynaut. Your opponent sends out Wynaut. Neither of you can do anything, unless you have Tickle.

Do you switch? Well, why should you? If you switch, you put yourself in a bad position.

Unfortunately, your opponent is also thinking the same thing. Thus, neither of you switches.

 

[UltiMario]

Unless you switch to a pursuiter.

Or Sharpedo.

Or anything that can KO Wynaut, really. Maybe something with U-Turn.

 

[Wave⁂]

ScarfTar's Pursuit gets Countered. Basically the only that that will OHKO it is Scizor's U-Turn.

 

[UltiMario]

You do understand that this is a scenario that is nearly impossible to occur, correct?

First of all, NOBODY is going to Explode with Azelf other than in an attempt to create a scenario. Secondly, blindly switching in Wynaut is wasting it. You ONLY switch-in Wynaut when it's on something like Blissey, or your opponent only typically has attacks that won't do much on you, say, Celebi. Blindingly switching in Wynaut means you are risking that the other 80-90% of the tier that can tear you apart is going to switch in. You don't blindly switch in Wynaut, ever, or else you almost certainly WILL have one less member on your team by the end of it. Wynaut does not have base 190HP. Wyanut cannot be mindlessly switched in to be used for free set-up bait for one of your Pokes. Don't believe me? Use Wynaut on the PO Beta server. Ladder with it. You'll know exactly what I mean by the end of it.

Wynaut is not bulky. Wynaut is not mindless. Wynaut is situational, and blind switching in is NOT the situation to go in. When you blind switch, do it with Sharpedo, Flygon, SOMETHING that can more reliably handle a broader group of Pokemon. I cannot even think of a single reason why you would want to switch in Wynaut blindly, not knowing if you'll get Blissey or CBTar. It's a nearly 1 in 10 chance you'll make the right decision, and so many other Pokemon have better chances on a blind switch, it's not even funny.



Oh, and BTW, I Crunched. GG.

 

[mood4food77]

okay

if anything is getting banned, it's lilibelle

it's really way too good

 

[CRASHiC]

So how exactly did Lilli go from being so underused that we considered to bring back Latias to buff Lilli to being considered for banning?

 

[UltiMario]

Nobody on the server is using Dragons or offensive Fires during this testing for some oddball reason, so Lili is free to **** everything in her path until the hype of the new pokes wears off and teams standardize again.

 

[CRASHiC]

Oh, well then people should just run a Nasty Plot Ninetails. With a great movepool, great speed, and decent defenses, as well as Magic Guard adding to the bulk, Nasty Ninetails has the capability to 6-0 a team.

 

[UltiMario]

NP Ninetales DOES look like a solid Lili counter, but it would take forever and a day for me to find a team it can fit on, my teams always have a bad case of needing more Pokes than I can actually fit on the team.