The Original Midna for Brawl thread. (Debate the Wolf here!)

[Chief Mendez]

Did I not say that "it's not spot-on-the-money exact"? Take a princess with the same build as the other princess from a Zelda game, make all of her specials magic based...see what I'm driving at here?

And your comparison to Mewtwo. Now, there's a very important fact you didn't consider when you made that comparison. That being: Mewtwo blows up an island, enslaves hundreds of minds, and creates evil clones of everything he sees...in a movie. Not in a game. It's pretty common knowledge that if Pokemon were real, there'd be no reason why psychic types wouldn't just kill everything else on planet Earth. Now, if we go by the Pokemon games, Mewtwo's suddenly just a high-level Alakazam, isn't he?
Also, the other comparisons (Samus, Bowser) don't apply to what I'm trying to present here, in that they have access to the Spin Attack, the uh...bigness, etc. all the time, during normal gameplay. The way players are presented with Midna's trident in TP is drastically different: it is understood that she can only draw on those powers when her fused shadows merge, and she transforms. Samus's Screw Attack is a normal gameplay element. Midna's trident is a cutscene only variable, something that is simply too large and powerful to work in normal gameplay.

Alright, 2 more tiny details and I'm done.

1. Farore's Wind takes you from one point to another. One way trip, man. No "poppin' around" with the thing.

2. The Master Sword can't kill a Deku Baba in one hit. How's it supposed to kill a Star Warrior, especially one that's, you know; not evil?

 

[HarryPotter]

I don't want Midna in there, period! (quoted from poll choice)
-HP-

 

[Black/Light]

Did I not say that "it's not spot-on-the-money exact"? Take a princess with the same build (so now they look alike?)as the other princess from a Zelda game, make all of her specials magic based...see what I'm driving at here? (Yeah, your trying to say that Midna would be a auto Zelda rip just by having a few magical specials. . . which is wrong. Mostly all of Zelda's attacks are magic based (even her non-specials). . . my mock up Midna only had 4 magical attacks with the rest being trident+kicks. . .wowww)

And your comparison to Mewtwo. Now, there's a very important fact you didn't consider when you made that comparison. That being: Mewtwo blows up an island, enslaves hundreds of minds, and creates evil clones of everything he sees...in a movie. Not in a game( . . .i NEVER said ANYTHING other than he blows up the lab where he was made (never did I say he enslaved/ cloned or what not). Heres my proof seeing as you don't know what your talking about. . ."Amongst the rubble and wreckage is information that the scientists who once worked there obtained a Mew and impregnated it with the genetically altered Mewtwo, who destroyed the Mansion in its escape." http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokémon_Mansion )

It's pretty common knowledge that if Pokemon were real, there'd be no reason why psychic types wouldn't just kill everything else on planet Earth. Now, if we go by the Pokemon games, Mewtwo's suddenly just a high-level Alakazam, isn't he? (He is THE strongest, only rivaled by Deoxy if we are only looking at the first 3 games. . .they even made new types to combat him because he was over powered in RBY. . .yeah, a simple Alakazam. . . )

Also, the other comparisons (Samus, Bowser) don't apply to what I'm trying to present here, in that they have access to the Spin Attack, the uh...bigness, etc. all the time, during normal gameplay. The way players are presented with Midna's trident in TP is drastically different: it is understood that she can only draw on those powers when her fused shadows merge, and she transforms. Samus's Screw Attack is a normal gameplay element. Midna's trident is a cutscene only variable, something that is simply too large and powerful to work in normal gameplay.(. . . Good Jebus, your working my nerves. Now she can't have a trident because it was in a cut-scene. . . yet none of CF's moves where even in his game and Zelda's grab was based on a OoT cut scene with Ganon? And you didn't even touch on Browser being "drastically smaller" than he is in Mario's games nor did you touch on Samus's unlimated screw jump being made into a 3 second long jump. Really, you don't seem to understand that what happens in a game=/=full rep in SSB. They can give Midna a trident and say "she uses the weapon created from the fused shadow peices" and no one would rant about how unrealistic it is to have a much smaller trident given to Midna. . .mainly because ALOT of things in this game are either made up or different to what they are in thier respective games and people would say "coo, a trident user! Now THATS different ".)

Alright, 2 more tiny details and I'm done.

1. Farore's Wind takes you from one point to another. One way trip, man. No "poppin' around" with the thing. (. . . I mean't that you "pop around" to a different room and are not confinded to a small area like Zelda is)

2. The Master Sword can't kill a Deku Baba in one hit. How's it supposed to kill a Star Warrior, especially one that's, you know; not evil? ( You don't understand slight exageration do you? Well, why can't it kill Pichu? If it's strong enuff to take down one of those ugly hich men (who were not evil, just bad) with a few slings than whats stopping it from killing Pichu with lil effort? Because what happens in a game=/=few powed rep in SSB?)

This is getting annoying homs, your just going in loops and trying to focuse on things not of the subject at hand.

I have shown that Mewtwo DID in fact blow up the lab that he was born in IN THE GAME. Now, if they can take this power from Mewtwo and make it alot weaker to fit in SSB than they can do the same with the trident.
I have ALSO shown that what happens in a game=/=what HAS to happen in SSB. Things don't have to be at the same power they are in the games.

So there. I have prooven that Midna can transform into Twili Midna if the Devs so please.
I have shown that they can give things that arnt even related to a character to make a move-set for them.
I have shown that Midna can have her trident and have it's size and power greatly reduced to to fit into SSB much like how Browser's size and Mewtwo's In-Game powers where reduced.
I have shown that my WHOLE stand on this could actually happen so on that note this arguement is over and I end with saying. . .
Midna for brawl with her Twili Transformation FTW

*The end*

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Don't mean to butt in, but if the devs gave Midna in her Twili form a trident, I'd say I would be pretty okay with it. Midna does use it at some point in the game, but the form she uses it in isn't workable in Brawl, and out of her other 2 forms, Twili Midna is the only one I can see using it without looking ridiculous. Personally, I think giving Twili Midna the trident is an interesting idea. It at least allows her to be set apart from the rest of the characters a lot easier.

And as I said earlier, I'd like to see Midna's true form somewhere in the game. An actual character (even if it is transformed) may be pushing it, but I definately won't complain if it happens.

 

[Bobby Emerald]

I wanna see Midna's true form as a playable character or at least a transformation from imp Midna.

 

[Chief Mendez]

This is getting annoying homs, your just going in loops and trying to focuse on things not of the subject at hand.

I have shown that Mewtwo DID in fact blow up the lab that he was born in IN THE GAME. Now, if they can take this power from Mewtwo and make it alot weaker to fit in SSB than they can do the same with the trident.
I have ALSO shown that what happens in a game=/=what HAS to happen in SSB. Things don't have to be at the same power they are in the games.

So there. I have prooven that Midna can transform into Twili Midna if the Devs so please.
I have shown that they can give things that arnt even related to a character to make a move-set for them.
I have shown that Midna can have her trident and have it's size and power greatly reduced to to fit into SSB much like how Browser's size and Mewtwo's In-Game powers where reduced.
I have shown that my WHOLE stand on this could actually happen so on that note this arguement is over and I end with saying. . .
Midna for brawl with her Twili Transformation FTW

*The end*

The Pokemon games have also told us that a Charizard's breath can "melt anything", a Tyranitar "can't be harmed by any sort of attack", and that a Glaile can "instantly freeze it's foe solid". I think that proves the Pokedex isn't a very reliable estimate.

Anyway, let's get something straight: you haven't proved diddly. You simply can't. Neither can I. So in aquiescence, I won't speak another word about the trident. I made my arguments, and I stick to them.

So with that, (and because I don't remember what you had to say about it) I ask again why Twili deserves a spot over Imp? And be objective with your answer, if you please.

P.S. What's a "hom"?

 

[wannabpetdoctr]

Midna

I think Link should be able to change from Normal Link into wolf form.(Like Zelda did in Melee.) He should have Midna on his back and use her powers for grabbing and such.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I think Link should be able to change from Normal Link into wolf form.(Like Zelda did in Melee.) He should have Midna on his back and use her powers for grabbing and such.

And lose his bombs? Never!

Wolf Link wasn't that fun to play as in Twilight Princess anyways. I can't see it working in Brawl, especially if (as most people on here agree) Midna's a separate character.

 

[Black/Light]

The Pokemon games have also told us that a Charizard's breath can "melt anything", a Tyranitar "can't be harmed by any sort of attack", and that a Glaile can "instantly freeze it's foe solid". I think that proves the Pokedex isn't a very reliable estimate.

Anyway, let's get something straight: you haven't proved diddly. You simply can't. Neither can I. So in aquiescence, I won't speak another word about the trident. I made my arguments, and I stick to them.

So with that, (and because I don't remember what you had to say about it) I ask again why Twili deserves a spot over Imp? And be objective with your answer, if you please.

P.S. What's a "hom"?

Actually, yes, I HAVE shown you examples of everything I claimed from the workings of SSBM which results in me PROVING that it COULD happen if the devs want it to. And thats not a pokedex statment homs, its fond all over the walls of the research lab. . .and proves my point to a T.

And did you read my CLOSING statement? I said "Midna with Twili TRANSFORMATION (as in, Imp Midna who transforms into Twili Midna much like Samus into Zero).
Plus, what is this? The Nsider? Theres no need to argue who "deserves" w/e over who every else anyway.

And Homs = Latian American spin on the slang word "Homie"
I mainly use it to address those who Im "treating"

 

[Chief Mendez]

Actually, yes, I HAVE shown you examples of everything I claimed from the workings of SSBM which results in me PROVING that it COULD happen if the devs want it to. And thats not a pokedex statment homs, its fond all over the walls of the research lab. . .and proves my point to a T.

And did you read my CLOSING statement? I said "Midna with Twili TRANSFORMATION (as in, Imp Midna who transforms into Twili Midna much like Samus into Zero).
Plus, what is this? The Nsider? Theres no need to argue who "deserves" w/e over who every else anyway.

And Homs = Latian American spin on the slang word "Homie"
I mainly use it to address those who Im "treating"

But showing examples doesn't prove anything, it just supports your opinion. For all we know, the developers will scrap all the characters they've made up to now and replace them with the cast of Street Fighter 2.

And what I was trying to get across with the Pokedex statements was that what the Pokemon games tell us about the Pokemon isn't necessarily true across the board. If Mewtwo really did blow up a lab by himself, then why can't he knock out my Lv. 64 Pikachu with one hit? Like I said, the Pokemon games aren't good estimates.

Finally: we're agreed that Twili Midna won't show up in a separate slot from Imp Midna (if at all)?

 

[Black/Light]

But showing examples doesn't prove anything, it just supports your opinion.

It proves that it has actually happened before and could very well happen again. . . which was my point. . . she COULD have [insert useless debate about subject] and be in SSBB. . .not that it will happen for sure but that it could and has happened in other events in SSBM.

And what I was trying to get across with the Pokedex statements was that what the Pokemon games tell us about the Pokemon isn't necessarily true across the board. If Mewtwo really did blow up a lab by himself,(no "if"s, I PROVED that he actually did. . .) then why can't he knock out my Lv. 64 Pikachu with one hit? Like I said, the Pokemon games aren't good estimates.

AND YOU FINNALLY GET IT!!! Good for you, you have just now realized that SSB is NOT forced to obay the rules/ limates/ happenings and full scale truth of the games and characters the devs take character ideas from.
Have a cookie. . .

Finally: we're agreed that Twili Midna won't show up in a separate slot from Imp Midna (if at all)?

I agree that I FEEL she should and will be a transform of Imp Midna. . . I can't say it WONT turn out the other way.

And I say again. . .
Midna with Twili transformation FTW!
*the end. . . . really.*

 

[0rion]

$hee$h. Everyone'$ so high $trung to include every Twilight Prince$$ character there is, e$pecially for Midna'$ $ake. Brawl need$ veteran'$ like Vaati, Skull Kid, Dark Link Onox, and Aghanim, not babies like the Twilight King and Midna.

Ganon, Zelda, and Link are $hoe-in'$. Naturally.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Here's a little something to chew on.

Do people really want to see Brawl's roster filled with transformations? We already have one confirmed transformer, and in my opinion, I'm not even too happy with that. The Zelda/Sheik idea was cool, but from an analytical viewpoint, it isn't something that should be done again. There's a whole other thread in Character Discussion about how The Studio shoud fix Zelda and Sheik (Zelda sucks and Sheik rocks), since one character with two movesets isn't real fair. I'm not saying Melee's a balanced game, but this instance is more exemplified than others (Pichu?). My point is, just like the Ice Climbers being paired, I think transformations should be left out in Brawl. They were one-time-only (hopefully) exceptions, that were fun, but if we see the idea reused, it loses it's uniqueness.

Added to that, there's nothing all to special about Midna's transformation at the end of TP. We all knew she had an adult form, so it wasn't a surprise, it wasn't integral tot he story, and it wasn't a"OMGWTF"moment. In contrast, anyone who's gotten the Light Arrows in Ocarina of Time knows why Sheik and Zelda made for a great double character setup. If you insist on Midna transforming, then why not let Link turn into a wolf? Why not let Pikachu evolve? Why not let Snake shed his skin into Iroquois Pliskin (how cool would that be!?)? See what I mean?

 

[Black/Light]

Here's a little something to chew on.

Do people really want to see Brawl's roster filled with transformations?

Read closely. . . .
I. . .DON'T . . . GIVE. . . A. . . EEFF.

Im not even going to look at the rest of you post, Im not going to debate about how likely a transformation of a character who may or may not even be in is.

Is this going to stop my support of Midna in her Twili form? No.
Can she actually have a Twili transformation if the devs please? Yes.
Can she use a trident if the devs so please? Yes.
Thats my points and I support Twili Midna for brawl.

Now, THE. . . ENNDDD.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Glad you feel that way, but I posted nothing about those points. Sheesh, I removed my previous arguments and came up with a new one so we could get off of what we've been debating for the last two pages and what do I get for it?

If you really don't feel like arguing my posts, then...don't, alright?

 

[Black/Light]

I was just listing ALL of my points to which this whole un-needed debate originated from. (a "recap" if you will)
Like I said, I have shown you past examples and proven to you that my opinions, ideas and thoughts COULD happen. . . there isn't anything else to debate about.

With that, I say. . .

"YAYY! Midna with transformation into Twili Form FTW!!!"

 

[Chief Mendez]

"Hey Jim, blue's better than red."
"No, red's better than blue."
"Okay, but yellow's cooler than green."
"Dude, red's better than blue."

I'm talking about a completely different thing. But someone doesn't seem to grasp that.

 

[Junaur]

Man oh man. I haven't been in here since, like summer, and let me guess, are you guys still going in circles with your arguments? By the time the argument reaches a dozen pages, it seems pretty obvious that no one's gonna budge from their views. But who am I to say you shouldn't argue? On the bright side, the midna thread is being kept at the top of the board very often.

So anyway, I recently finished my midna moveset. I won't post it here until I'm done with a few more editorials, but I will link to it now, and post a summary since it is very long:

http://midna.kg13.com/forum/index.php?topic=2808.0

Midna moveset summary

Midna can transform into a wolf. This was to appease all sides of people who want midna for brawl. Those who want her alone, those who want her including wolf link, and those that don't want her to be this game's mewtwo. Though... I guess that last one is a characteristic of both sides.
Anyway, back on topic. Midna is pretty light. And fairly fast only because of her low weight. Her hair gives her range to make up for a potetially easy K.O. target. Combined with strong throws and projectiles, her ranged ability should keep her alive if she can keep the opponent out of her... hair! Hilarious, right?
Midna (Shadow beast), for all it's worth, is wolf link. Except, minus link, and plus midna. The general idea for this part of the moveset is that she's a beast on the ground (I'm on a role today!), but crap in the air. No jump height, no air speed, no knockback, no real air game. But on the ground, that's where she shines (<_< No put intended on that one). Speed, weight, some limited range, good throws, and a K.O. move.
So that's the moveset summarized.

 

[Chief Mendez]

So anyway, I recently finished my midna moveset. I won't post it here until I'm done with a few more editorials, but I will link to it now, and post a summary since it is very long:

http://midna.kg13.com/forum/index.php?topic=2808.0

Where's her expanding energy field move? It seems like a no-brainer for one of her specials. Hold in a combo to expand it, tag up to three people, then release to hit them. Eh?

 

[Sandy]

I made another moveset:



Midna/Wolf Link’s Stats:

INFO: Ranging from 1 to 5 stars (*), 1 equals weakest, lightest, and 5 stars equals strongest, heaviest.

Weight: *** (Combined, they average about Link’s human weight… maybe lighter… Keep in mind that Wolf Link isn’t lugging around equipment)
Height: *** (Combined, maybe about slightly taller than Pikachu and about as tall as Mario)
Jump: *** (Jumps about as high as Mario. Remember, Wolf Link is more mobile)
Fall Speed: ***
Walking Speed: **** (For those who didn’t already know, Wolf Link is quite quick on his feet)
Attack Power (Physical/Mainly Wolf Link’s Attacks): ** (Wolf Link never did have much attack strength in his bites)
Attack Power (Magical/Midna’s Magic): *** (Midna makes up for lack of attack strength Wolf Link has… sort of)
Attack Speed: **** (Mainly from Wolf Link’s speed. Midna is also pretty quick at times)
Landing Lag: ***
Traction: ***** (That wolf has tons of traction!)
Grabbing Range: ** (Wolf Link. Maybe *** with if Midna grabs) (About as far as Mario/Pikachu)
Throwing Distance: **** (With Midna’s help, the throws are somewhat powerful. Not quite as powerful as Mewtwo)
Item Throwing: ** (Midna picks up the items, not Wolf Link) (About slightly farther than Pikachu)
Item Thrown Speed: ** (Midna picks up the items, not Wolf Link) (About as fast as the items Pikachu throws)

Wolf Link/Midna’s Move Set:


Basic Stances:


Standing Still: Wolf Link stands in his normal stance from TP. Midna sits on Wolf Link’s back like in TP as well.


Walking Slow: Tip toes like Wolf Link does in TP.


Walking Medium Speed: Walks like he does TP.


Walking Full Speed: Gives a slight jogging movement, but not fully running.


Running: Dash Runs like in TP. Midna gets a tighter grip to hang on.


Crawling (Kneeling down and moving, unique to SSBB): Wolf Link keeps body low to the ground, but can still move the legs pretty effectively. Midna flattens her body down on Wolf Link’s back and keeps her head low.


Jumping (First): Jumps like how Wolf Link performs his jump attack.


Jumping Backwards (First): Jumps backwards just like when L-Targeting something in TP and giving the command to jump backwards.


Jumping (Double): Does a front flip in midair. Midna gets a tight grip to hang on. (What? You didn’t think Wolf Link could flip?)


Jumping Backwards (Double): Back flips like in TP. Midna gets a tight grip to hang on. (Ever try jumping backwards twice and beyond in quick succession?)


Falling Pose: Falls just like jumping off a building in TP. Midna gets a tight grip to hang on.


Landing Pose: Lands pretty much like Wolf Link does in TP. Knees bend a little.


Kneeling Down Pose: Wolf Link gets his body low to the ground, still leaving enough space for his legs to crawl across. Midna ducks her head down and flattens her body down on Wolf Link’s back as to crouch down as well.


Falling Through Ground (Smash Down through ground you can dive under): Twirls like Mario, but in a different way.


Injured Pose: The same injured pose that Wolf Link uses in TP.


Flying Away From a Strong Attack: Hmm… pretty much spins around and flies off into the distance Pikachu does? (This one is open to debate)


Laying Down Face up: Wolf Link’s body is tilted sideways and his back is to the camera while facing right. (Back is towards the background if facing to the left instead) Midna actually falls/rolls off of Wolf Link in this pose and is a very short distance away from Wolf Link, in front of him (If facing right), or behind him. (Facing Left)


Laying Down Face down: Wolf Link sprawls out his legs on the ground and head is rested on the floor. Midna lays flat on Wolf Link’s back like she does in TP when she’s injured via a certain… “Cutscene”…


Dodges and Blocking:


Blocking with Standard Shield: Wolf Link goes into his “fighting stance” when you L-Target an enemy as the shield pops up. Midna also holds up her arms and crosses them into a blocking pose, like Zelda.


Stand Dodge: Ducks head and body down to one side (Either way, I don’t care) and Midna also takes an arm off of Wolf Link and makes a somewhat similar stand dodge to that of Peach/Zelda.


Air Dodge: Wolf Link leans his whole body one way, to make it look like an air dodge. Midna gets a tighter grip to hang on. (I actually couldn’t come up with anything better…)


Rolling Dodge: Does a side leap, turning around at the same time, similar to the side jump in TP.


Grabbing and Hitting/Throwing:

Believe it or not, I've decided that it's possible for 2 different things to occur in terms of grabbing and throwing. You simply decide what you like more...

Grabbing: (1 of 2 ways) Either Wolf Link stands up on his hind legs briefly and reaches out with his 2 front paws OR Midna whips out her giant hand magic and takes a swipe in front of Wolf Link to try and grab someone.


Grabbing Stance (Succeeded in Grabbing): (1 of 2 ways) Wolf Link clings to the opponent like he does in Twilight Princess to certain enemies OR Midna’s giant hand magic grasps the enemy and holds the opponent in front of Wolf Link.


Grab Attack: Wolf Link bites the enemy, plain and simple. (Works either way)


Throw Forward: (1 of 2 ways) Wolf Link sinks his claws further into the opponent, flips over the top of the opponent, and lets go as Wolf Link falls back to the ground via the flip, and lands on feet OR Midna, using her hand magic, gives the enemy a good toss via swinging side ways… kind of like in Baseball.


Throw Backwards: (1 of 2 ways) Wolf Link jumps off, Midna quickly grabs, and then tosses the opponent backwards with a sideways swing… kind of like in Baseball OR Midna just swings backwards doing the same thing she does when swinging forward, with just a few different touches to the animation.


Throw Upwards: (1 of 2 ways) Wolf Link flips off the opponent, Midna sends a spark of energy at the enemy, causing them to levitate, and then Midna uses her magic to send the opponent flying upwards OR Midna sends an electric magic current to the enemy while holding them, lets go, then Midna uses magic to send the opponent skyward.


Throw Down: (1 of 2 ways) Wolf Link jumps up off the opponent, comes back down slamming them into the ground, sinks teeth in around the chest area, and shakes the opponent around… much like finishing off a Poe in TP… OR Midna lifts the opponent up and then slams the opponent into the ground.


A Button Attacks:


A: Wolf Link leans head forward a little taking a bite at the enemies.


A, A: Wolf Link takes another bite lunging the head forward again in a slightly different way.


A, A, A: Wolf Link puts his head down and uses it as a battering ram against the enemy.


A + Left/Right: Wolf Link swings his tail towards the enemy, similar to that of one of his attacks in TP.


A + Down: Wolf Link tail swishes near the ground, (Leg sweeping so to speak) in a similar way to Fox.


A + Up: Midna creates a red electric field that zaps up from in front of Wolf Link, to above both Wolf Link’s and Midna’s heads.


A + Smash Left/Right: Wolf Link makes a lunge forward biting and clawing anyone in the way. (Holds pose just before lunging forward if charging) Goes about the same distance as Fox’s Smash Forward.


A + Smash Down: Wolf Link performs the Spin Attack he uses in TP. (Holds pose just before unleashing the spin attack if charging)


A + Smash Up: Midna creates a blue electric field (Stronger version. Holds the magic chanting pose if charging) that zaps up from in front of Wolf Link, to above both Wolf Link’s and Midna’s heads..


Dash A: Wolf Link uses his head as a battering ram, but the animation is different.

Air A: Midna generates a red aura around herself and Wolf Link, causing electric damage (variable) to anyone that touches them.


Air A Forward (Left/Right): Midna swings her arm forward in a up to down motion, generating a red spark orb as Wolf Link turns sideways a little for Midna to reach out towards the opponent.


Air A Behind (Left/Right): Wolf Link kicks behind himself with both rear legs. Midna continues to keep a tight grip to hang on.


Air A Down (Meteor Smash): Midna swings her arm down towards the ground, generating a red spark orb below Wolf Link.


Air A Up: Midna points her finger into the air and generates a red spark orb above her head, and explodes. (Like Zelda’s Air A Up)


B Button Special Moves:


B: Dark Energy Field: Midna generates the Dark Energy Field she uses in TP around Wolf Link and herself. (Has a little less range than it does in TP) Anyone who gets caught in this energy field gets red electricity surrounding them. Upon the player releasing B, Wolf Link jumps around like in TP, causing medium to heavy damage to the opponents. (15% max. Maybe 20%) Wolf Link and Midna cannot be harmed when they take action in this move, so you have to get them while they’re still charging the move. Arial attacks might work well in this situation…


B + Left/Right: Energy Orb: Midna points her arm and finger forward and a Blue Orb shoots forward. It locks on and focuses on the closest target. Goes a little bit farther and causes a little less damage then Samus’s missiles. (Not Smash B missiles) The lag to performing this move over and over again is about the same as Samus’s Smash B Missiles. (Not the lock on kind)


B + Up: Twilight Warp: Upon entering this command, you get half a second to move the control stick and aim where Midna goes. Then, Midna launches forward in that direction quickly (About as far as Pikachu’s 1st Quick Attack launch) and then turns quickly to Wolf Link. Opponents receive no damage if Midna collides with them, but they get stunned for about half a second if hit by her. Once Midna turns to Wolf Link, Wolf Link quickly, and just as fast as Pikachu’s Quick Attack, leaps towards to where Midna is. If any opponent gets hit by Wolf Link while he’s jumping towards Midna, the opponents receives some minor damage and is stunned again for about half a second.


B + Down: Impulse Wave: Midna crosses her arms, and then spreads them out left and right. (Lowered a little towards the ground by a tiny bit) Once that happens, a blue or red (It’s random, but doesn’t change anything) circular wave flows out from around them, causing medium damage to those within range and knocks them back a ways. The wave doesn’t go out very far from the user…


BRAWL MOVE: Fused Shadow Force: Midna gets off of Wolf Link, Wolf Link teleports out, and then Midna calls upon all 4 fused shadow pieces and put them together on her head. She then transforms into the same… creature that she changes into in TP. She then gets that cool looking spear and throws it at the ground, generating a very powerful, unavoidable shockwave in one direction, similar to Mario’s Brawl move. To avoid it, you got to be behind her or somewhere below her. Causes medium/multiple damage to all opponents hit by this move. She then goes back to her original self, (Not original, original… to those that know what I’m talking about having played through all of TP) Wolf Link warps back in, and Midna gets on his back again.


Taunt: (1 of 2 things happen at random when pushing the taunt button) Wolf Link sits down and Howls as Midna gets a tighter grip to hang on OR Midna chants a small blue fire in her hand and looks at it, then clenches her fist to make it vanish and then puts both hands on Wolf Link’s back again.


Victory Poses (After Battle/Scored 1st):

1: Midna is seen chanting some magical red orb in her hands on Wolf Link’s back, then makes it vanish and spreads arms out and energy shoots out of both hands. (I couldn’t think of a better way to describe it)
2: Both teleport in and Wolf Link howls while standing up.
3: ? (Haven’t decided yet)


Defeat Pose (After Battle/Scored 2nd,3rd, or 4th): Wolf Link is seen sitting down and Midna is leaning against Wolf Link, clapping her hands. Wolf Link just stares at the audience.


Character Symbol (During Victory, lose, and in game): Triforce Symbol OR something related to Midna’s species… or related to TP.


Music Theme (If won): The same Zelda theme the other Zelda characters use.


End Move Set


Conclusion: Overall, Wolf Link and Midna combined form a pretty good moveset and stats. Not to be taken lightly.
Advantages: Is pretty quick and agile. Can quickly get around the course in comparison to human Link.
Weaknesses: Attacks are somewhat weaker than human Link. They’re also slightly lighter than human Link, thus a little easier to KO.


Comments: I don’t see why Midna couldn’t get in myself… Roy was put in even BEFORE his game came out, so why not? Besides, by the time Brawl comes out, TP will have been around for about… 7-10 months… More than enough time for the Zelda fans to get to know all the characters in TP. Overall, I give Midna/Wolf Link combination a… 50% chance of getting in. Why 50/50? Mainly because it’s up to Sakurai to decide wither or not to advertise TP in Brawl.


How to unlock character: If Midna/Wolf Link is a secret character to unlock, here’s how you do it. (1 of 3 ways)

1: Play through Classic or Adventure mode with all other Zelda characters.
2: Play 550 VS matches.
3: Play in VS matches for a total of 20 hours.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Holy crappit man. "Backward mid-air jump"? Could you get any more detailed?

 

[Black/Light]

"Hey Jim, blue's better than red."
"No, red's better than blue."
"Okay, but yellow's cooler than green."
"Dude, red's better than blue."

I'm talking about a completely different thing. But someone doesn't seem to grasp that.

Sorry homs but that has nothing to do with the amount of rice in Chine. . .

IDK what your point in this "debate" was but my point was that she can very well be in as a character and be made in the way that I suggested. . . I proved my point so there isn't/ wasn't/ wont be any other thing for me to "debate" about on said subject with you . . .

(I mostly find argueing about how "deserving" or how "likely (from our stand point)" a character is pretty lame most of the time. . . argueing about how deserving/ likely a transformation of a character who is already VERY debatable in said terms is going over boad. . . )

 

[Chief Mendez]

Here's a little something to chew on.

Do people really want to see Brawl's roster filled with transformations? We already have one confirmed transformer, and in my opinion, I'm not even too happy with that. The Zelda/Sheik idea was cool, but from an analytical viewpoint, it isn't something that should be done again. There's a whole other thread in Character Discussion about how The Studio shoud fix Zelda and Sheik (Zelda sucks and Sheik rocks), since one character with two movesets isn't real fair. I'm not saying Melee's a balanced game, but this instance is more exemplified than others (Pichu?). My point is, just like the Ice Climbers being paired, I think transformations should be left out in Brawl. They were one-time-only (hopefully) exceptions, that were fun, but if we see the idea reused, it loses it's uniqueness.

Added to that, there's nothing all to special about Midna's transformation at the end of TP. We all knew she had an adult form, so it wasn't a surprise, it wasn't integral tot he story, and it wasn't a"OMGWTF"moment. In contrast, anyone who's gotten the Light Arrows in Ocarina of Time knows why Sheik and Zelda made for a great double character setup. If you insist on Midna transforming, then why not let Link turn into a wolf? Why not let Pikachu evolve? Why not let Snake shed his skin into Iroquois Pliskin (how cool would that be!?)? See what I mean?

See those paragraphs above? That's my point. Either respond to it, or ignore it.

But please don't tell me you don't like debating a character's inclusion rate when you yourself log onto a web forum made for exactly that.

 

[Junaur]

Cheif Mendez, I like the way you think. Sorry for the delay, let me take the time to respond to some of your quotes.

Holy crappit man. "Backward mid-air jump"? Could you get any more detailed?

Yeah, he could've put in each move's damage, speed, knockback, and range! </jealous>

See those paragraphs above? That's my point. Either respond to it, or ignore it.

But please don't tell me you don't like debating a character's inclusion rate when you yourself log onto a web forum made for exactly that.

I can't talk for Black/Light, but since this is an issue with my moveset, I feel obligated to answer as well.

Nope, one character with two movesets isn't fair, and the only reason it isn't brought up more is because zelda does indeed suck. But then again, is pichu being the smallest lightest character, and the only one who can hurt itself on a regular basis fair?
While most fighting games pay attention to tiers and try to make everyone equal, some only pay attention to some of the characters being equal, with some being blatently High or Low tier. Like street fighter II. Shin Akuma Vs. Dan Hibiki.
So what I'm saying is, I think this is one of those fighters. Yep, dunno what more to say then that.

Where's her expanding energy field move? It seems like a no-brainer for one of her specials. Hold in a combo to expand it, tag up to three people, then release to hit them. Eh?

Good question, I'm glad you asked it. There are a few reasons why not.

1. Spin attack - All I ever felt it was was a glorified spin attack, but a necessary one since wolf link's body just isn't gonna cover the distance of a long sword like regular link has.

2. Homing attack - Well actually, this was more then just a homing attack, it was a homing attack with a 95% success rate. With those odds of connecting, I couldn't figure out how to correctly narc it.

3. Spam attack- Like I said, I couldn't figure out how to narc it. It seemed like it would be Link's Up B with the properties of Bowser's down smash. And if I narced it too much, then the usefulness goes out the window.

4. Better attack - Like I said before, I just couldn't implement it and have it be worthwhile. The B attacks I put, I felt were feasible, balanced, and still useful.

Those are my reasons for not including Midna's "Energy field multiple strike attack"

 

[Chief Mendez]

Well, have it only be able to tag ground targets, have it expand slowly, and while it's expanded, it slows Midna to a crawl/stops her altogether. It's like, her signature move from the game, and I can't imagine her without it.

And in response to the equal power thing; haven't you seen at least a few people/threads on this site wanting for a more balanced roster? People want Sheik axed altogether because of his crazy-cheapness, Bowser needs to be faster, Fox shouldn't be such an air-*****, etc. So saying (and I agree with this) that it's alright to create an overpowered character because that's happened in the past just doesn't gel. Joke characters (like Pichu and Dan) are fine and dandy, but making a prominent figure in the game (if, indeed, Midna is included) more powerful on that reasoning is wrong.

 

[Black/Light]

See those paragraphs above? That's my point. Either respond to it, or ignore it.

I guess I'll read it seeing as you think it proves something. . .

Do people really want to see Brawl's roster filled with transformations? No, but does 2 characters transforming= "full of transformations? We already have one confirmed transformer, and in my opinion, I'm not even too happy with that So? . The Zelda/Sheik idea was cool, but from an analytical viewpoint, it isn't something that should be done again. But it is being done again. . . big deal. There's a whole other thread in Character Discussion about how The Studio shoud fix Zelda and Sheik (Zelda sucks and Sheik rocks), since one character with two movesets isn't real fair. Any character can kick a** if you use them right. . . and theres one way to fix it, cut Shiek, give Zelda a sword and go from there (a whole thread about that somewhere here too). And it's your OPINION that it aint fair. . . the devs have shown they feel otherwise. I'm not saying Melee's a balanced game, but this instance is more exemplified than others (Pichu?). My point is, just like the Ice Climbers being paired, I think transformations should be left out in Brawl. Odd. . . you feel something thats already been confirmed for brawl should be "left out". . . kind of like yelling about how fart attacks should be "left out". They were one-time-only (hopefully) exceptions, that were fun, but if we see the idea reused, it loses it's uniqueness. *Points to Samus*

Added to that, there's nothing all to special about Midna's transformation at the end of TP. Thats your opinion homs. . . state it as so. We all knew she had an adult form,Actually, no, not everyone knew this which is why we should really be using spoiler tags. Plus, it was a plot twist. . not everyone playing the game will know till the middle. so it wasn't a surprise, Yes it was. . . for those actually playing the game without reading spoilers it wasn't integral tot he story,. . .The whole story is about over throwing Zant so that the spell on Midna would be lefted and she would once again be the TP and stop this crazy Twilight mixing with light to make darkness crap Zant/ Ganon was up to. and it wasn't a"OMGWTF"moment Read above. In contrast, anyone who's gotten the Light Arrows in Ocarina of Time knows why Sheik and Zelda made for a great double character setup.. . .What? So not only did people expect Zelda but they expected Sheik as well? If you insist on Midna transforming, then why not let Link turn into a wolf? Why the hell not? I supported Link transforming into a Wolf WITH Midna on his back up tell like. . . a month ago. . . Why not let Pikachu evolve? Thats along the lines of having Young Link transform into adult Link. . . Why not let Snake shed his skin into Iroquois Pliskin (how cool would that be!? I have no idea who that is but Im pretty sure it didn't happen in the first Nintendo game Snake had which is the model to which this Snake was based upon. . . )? See what I mean? No, you shot out opinions as facts and assume I don't/ do feel w/e way on subjects. . .kinda lame and moot if you ask me

But please don't tell me you don't like debating a character's inclusion rate when you yourself log onto a web forum made for exactly that.

Actually, this WHOLE site =/= "debate about characters for brawl" homs. And again, you seem to assume that I want to argue about how likely it is that a group of Japanese people (to which I don't know) lead by Sakurai (the man who added in G&W and even took up a clone slot just because he likes Doc's games music) chose w/e character I like.

I was DEEP into that a well ago. . . but it's pretty bluntly known that he has planed out just about all of the characters by last fall so it effects nothing. I have sence than choosen to talk about characters I like w/o debating hugely about how likely they are UNLESS it's with someone I know is a good debater who uses good enuff logic along side facts with lil use of personal opinion which keeps me interested. (Kaid and I get into a nice Blaziken arguement every now and than. . . said person has sence done like F-O and I and stopped posting here. alot . . which is why my sig says what it says. . . )

 

[Chief Mendez]

But you are in the CHARACTER DISCUSSION section, are you not? You might expect to meet someone who doesn't agree with your views, and argues them in such a mysterious place.

And for the record, Samus doesn't "transform" like Zelda/Sheik. There's no button combo that switches between the two. We don't know exactly how it does work, but we know it's not like in the last game. So that doesn't count.

And yeah, Sheik was a great transformation, because the first time through Ocarina, you had no clue it was Zelda behind that headwrap. It's on par with Aeris dying for "holy crap game moment of the late 90s". Midna's ending switch was pretty expected, especially once you discovered her backstory.

P.S. I don't know what "F-O" means, and I don't know what Radical Edward has to do with incorrect punctuation and spelling.

 

[Black/Light]

But you are in the CHARACTER DISCUSSION section, are you not?Yeah, Im in a place to TALK about characters. . . not "Debates only about SSBB characters forums". . . which was my point You might expect to meet someone who doesn't agree with your views, and argues them in such a mysterious place. Or I might see it as useless to argue about such things and choose to only talk about characters I like so that I don't waste time on making up "chances" of w/e happening. . .

And for the record, Samus doesn't "transform" like Zelda/Sheik. You don't actually know this. . . what was said was too unclear to know w/e he meant. There's no button combo that switches between the two. Again, you DON'T know this. It COULD be turned into a 2nd tunt that triggers her suite to pop of (aka, a button action). . . why are you even trying to argue if you use soo many personal opinions in place of facts? We don't know exactly how it does work, but we know it's not like in the last game. How exactly do we not know that she will not transform with the use of a button? So that doesn't count. WELL, Midna to Twili Midna could very well work like Samus to Zero seeing as neither can change like Zelda to Shiek in their games. . . so WOW, that wouldn't "count" either. . . your point has no bearing by your own logic homs. . .

And yeah, Sheik was a great transformation, because the first time through Ocarina, you had no clue it was Zelda behind that headwrap. From what I hear, some people actually assumed that well playing. . . It's on par with Aeris dying for "holy crap game moment of the late 90s". Midna's ending switch was pretty expected, especially once you discovered her backstory. Actually, her "dieing" was "the stick that broke the camel's back" to most Midna fans that I have seen. It was a shocker and pushed MANY people into a bloody rage when fighting Ganon. . .

P.S. I don't know what "F-O" means, F-O is a member who Kaid and I like to debate with. . . well, atleast back when we all were here alot. and I don't know what Radical Edward has to do with incorrect punctuation and spelling. So your "arguement" is weak which results in such focus on a other wise unimportant thing. . . .yeah, sounds right.

And thats what I have to say to you. . . now, it's time to type up some BS for my project.

 

[Chief Mendez]

This isn't a pure character addition. Rather, under certain conditions, Samus will "remove" her Power Suit. Whoa! That's a woman under there!...

...And don't worry—you'll still be able to play as standard Samus, too.

I guess, if you wanted to, you could construe "certain conditions" to mean "button combination", but to do that, you'd have to be a man possesed...oh, right.

Sakurai's doing something different, which is (as most people think) to switch to a weaker, albeit faster moveset, after taking so much damage. I'd also imagine she'll be unlockable eventually, or have a "button-hold-as-the-match-loads" a la Sheik trick to play as her immediately. The point is: it's not a transform move.

[Quote="Black/Light]Or I might see it as useless to argue about such things and choose to only talk about characters I like so that I don't waste time on making up "chances" of w/e happening. . . [/QUOTE]Regardless of how you see my posts, you can't really believe that you won't meet someone who doesn't see eye to eye. If you honest and truly didn't like arguing with me...you wouldn't argue with me. It's very simple logic, that.

[Quote="Black/Light]So your "argument" is weak which results in such focus on a other wise unimportant thing. . . .yeah, sounds right.[/QUOTE]Hey, you brought it up. "Why", I don't know, but you did, in fact, remark about your signature.

 

[Black/Light]

I guess, if you wanted to, you could construe "certain conditions" to mean "button combination", but to do that, you'd have to be a man possesed...oh, right.

Examples I have seen thought up about this from others. . .
1. After Samus gets to a high % of damage you are given a choice to brake free from the gear with a 2nd taunt (note, button used. . . makes sense. Your not forced to change if you don't want to)
2. Comes after her "brawl attack" as seen in the trailer (that doesn't seem to make much sense. . . we don't even know how brawl attacks come about)
3. A 2nd taunt that auto damages Samus resulting in her gear falling off (makes some sense. Keeps normal Samus normal but lets Zero play at low damage)
and etc. . .
I hear ALOT of takes on this so useing a "button combination" could very well be used in some way. . . .and the statement you didn't quote makes many think it's a choice in some way (along side the statement you DID post saying she would "remove" her suit which could mean she could choose to remove it at some point) "And don't worry—you'll still be able to play as standard Samus, too. "

Sakurai's doing something different, which is (as most people think) to switch to a weaker, albeit faster moveset, after taking so much damage. I'd also imagine she'll be unlockable eventually, or have a "button-hold-as-the-match-loads" a la Sheik trick to play as her immediately. The point is: it's not a transform move.

I NEVER SAID IT WAS A MOVE! My WHOLE take on it is that it could be a 2nd taunt thats used in some why. . . aka not a MOVE but a choice using a button in some way. And do you know what a transformation is homs?

Dictionary.com-Transformation- 3. change in form, appearance, nature, or character

It IS A TRANSFORMATION as in stats/ model/ attacks/ weapons ALL change from what Samus normally has.

And you missed the whole point. . . what if. . .WHAT IF Midna transforms like Samus seeing as you (in what you call logic) don't think that counts as a "transformation"? If that happens (Midna transforms like Samus) than she wouldn't count as a "transformation" to you. . . so how would the game be over run with tranformation characters by your logic?

Regardless of how you see my posts, you can't really believe that you won't meet someone who doesn't see eye to eye. If you honest and truly didn't like arguing with me...you wouldn't argue with me. It's very simple logic, that.

. . . .You must have. . . . lets just say "short term memory" to be nice.
1. I never said that I will see "eye-to-eye" with everyone here.
2. I never said I wouldn't "argue" well Im here.
3. I am fully aware that not everyone will agree with me and my Twili Midna support.
4. I DID, however, say that I find argueing about character's "chances" feckless and that I don't waste my time on it now-a-days unless it's with a select few people here who are good at debating (Kaid and F-O for example). But are we "argueing" about how likely it is that Twili Midna is in Brawl? No, your just flib-flabban on about how my take on her is "wrong/ can't or wont happen" mixed in with w/e BS you branch off into like "Samus's transformation" or " Twili Midna wasn't a important plot twist". . . so whats your point?

Hey, you brought it up. "Why", I don't know, but you did, in fact, remark about your signature.

. . . If you can't see the inside joke in my sig than you probly shouldn't comment on it homs .

EDIT- 1,100 post!!!

 

[Chief Mendez]

Wow, a dictionary definition. How stinging. You know what I meant by "transformation", which was that you'd be free to shift between characters, something that Samus, from what we've seen, won't be able to do; she'll be stuck in one form. If that is the case, Midna couldn't work like that. It just wouldn't gel logically.

Anyways, I hate to disapoint you, but this point does relate to Twili Midna being in Brawl. I asked you (since you suggested the transformation) if transformations were deserving of coming back, and you said yes, since Zamus is already in. I then disagreed, as I explained before.

I'll say it again: if you seriously detest this argument as you profess, then just stop replying.

EDIT - I'd actually like to know the joke about your siigy, if it's not too much to ask.

 

[Black/Light]

I would have to ask YOU this. . . how would it "gel logically" for Midna to transform like Zelda when Zelda could transform at any moment yet Midna had to be freed (much like Samus had to be "freed" from her gear) from dark magic to transform back to her TP self?

I could see a attack called "Darkness release" that, when fully charged, releases her from dark magic but doesn't allow her to go back. . . that sounds like how some other character could work. . .

(And you never said "Transform back and what not" you just said transform)

So yes, by all means I could see this being a one way transformation seeing as Midna (much like Samus) has to be freed from something not of herself inorder to transform into her true self. (And thats was my point)

And my sig is my impression of Edward, the computer genius from the anime "Cowboy Bebop". The animation in my sig is the computer program she uses to hack sites and what not.

Edit- Now that I think about it, Ed would most likely say it like "furtherr" seeing as she doesn't chop words in half. . . not too sure how she says her r's but I know she holds onto her l's some times. I think I will change that. . .

Edit again- as I have said OVER and OVER. . . I don't like argueing character CHANCES of getting in. . . .we arnt argueing about how likely Twili Midna is to get in, we are just going on-and-on about a whole lot of freckless BS that you choose to argue about because you don't what to stop. this is becoming very much off topic and theres no use in going on about it. . .
(As I said before, this whole "don't stop argueing until proven wrong or someone gives in " bs gets you no where when the real arguement is already over. . . )

 

[Chief Mendez]

Technically speaking, Samus doesn't need to be "freed" as Midna does, since she could realistically remove her Power Suit whenever but...that's a bit superficial.

I don't see how my posts are off-topic. Yes, you've told me that it is, in fact, possible for Midna to be included like you suggest. Now I'm going to tell you why I think that won't happen.

That transformation move sounds like a horrid idea. If you're going to take up an attack slot with a one-time only, user-specified switch...why not just make the two separate characters? There are really stupid issues with that, as you're basically making one character unplayable. If you like Imp Midna, you'd just have one less attack input. If you like Twili Midna, you're then squandering a whole other moveset. A situation like that would rather be avoided by just giving each character separate spots, which isn't going to happen.

P.S. Your sig: I don't get it. That's not Ed's catchphrase or anything, so...?

 

[Black/Light]

1. Never said it would be a useless attack. Could be a Bv that charges up and damages like Mew2's B attack (when charging). Once fully charged there could be a option to transform by some means. (Either way, it's just a attack I made up in that moment. . . . really )

And if it was done in melee and they where OK with doing that (given their time limate it would seem odd to make up a transformation character that didn't NEED to be in) than by no means does it seem like something to debate about in either way it's done to me. . .(It would actually make more sense for Twili form to be the one on the selection screen and be able to transform into Imp Midna given her magic could be able to change her form for all we know. . .dev's choice )

2. You were just going on about how Zero isn't a transformation to you and we were JUST argueing about how Samus transforms. . . that sounds off topic to me.

3. In Samus's game she only removes the gear when it's damaged (which was what I was refering to. . . ). In theory, both Samus and Twili Midna would be able to trandform at will. . .

4. Never said that was her catch phrase. . . just a "impression". I guess you forgot why I even pointed the sig out. . . (and now we are talking about my sig. . .yes, soo much Midna in my sig. . )

This is getting kinda really. . . . dragged out. Im not seeing the point in argueing this. I say, how ever Midna could end up transforming could very well be somewhat like how Samus does it. . .and that doesn't appear to be a transformation in your eyes (for some odd reason) so this whole thing is really moot.

 

[Caael]

Now now, stop fighting, its just a forum.

Internet rule: Fighting over the internet is like the disabled olypics; even if you win, you're still ********.



Midna would be pretty cool to have in, with wolf link. The only attacks I see them with is the Super Smash move, where she

Spoiler

In Twilight Princess, turns into the huge spider thing with the fused shadows, like when she kills the barrier around the Castle

. Another move could be something with the hand ect. But if you cant find moves, make them!

 

[Chief Mendez]

1. Never said it would be a useless attack. Could be a Bv that charges up and damages like Mew2's B attack (when charging). Once fully charged there could be a option to transform by some means. (Either way, it's just a attack I made up in that moment. . . . really )

It still limits the character. I can't solidly compare her to Zamus, since we don't know exactly how that works, but I've told you why Midna wouldn't be a "Zelda" transformation character, and a move that's user-activated that switches between Midnas permanently won't happen; it's redundant.

2. You were just going on about how Zero isn't a transformation to you and we were JUST argueing about how Samus transforms. . . that sounds off topic to me.

It relates back. If you can't follow the path of this conversation...well that's your problem.

This is getting kinda really. . . . dragged out. Im not seeing the point in argueing this. I say, how ever Midna could end up transforming could very well be somewhat like how Samus does it. . .and that doesn't appear to be a transformation in your eyes (for some odd reason) so this whole thing is really moot.

Then don't argue it, for christsakes! If this is just so beneath you, then why are you still replying!? And you said before that you think Midna could transform with that "Darkness Release" thing. I gave reasons why it wouldn't work like that (pssst; that's called a "rebuttal!"). Try to stay with me here; this is a logical argument, so don't try and pass it off as nonsensical blathering.

Phew.

But if you cant find moves, make them!

I don't think that was ever a problem.

 

[Black/Light]

*Sigh*

The only reason I went on with this is because you DID (note, in the past) make a select few points that interested me to some small level (really, one post a day isn't really a "OMGzZ! This is SuChA TiGHhT dEBATe!!!" in my eyes).
But I know your kind. . . you just want to argue about w/e under the sun because I support something different to you (which isn't such a great base to drag a dead and done arguement out over).

Now, this pic sums up how I feel about your arguements this fare (it should be the brick wall you need). . .

*end*

 

[Chief Mendez]

That's clearly a photoshop.

 

[Black/Light]

. . . .I can assure you that that pancake is real.

Unless your talking about the text. . . to which I say "Duh" and that this is a popular pic used for things like this (as in, I didn't make it. . .).
. . . Or, you could be making a lame joke.

 

[Chief Mendez]

The latter.