The only change this game needs: dash dancing

[crazimonkez]

Add true dash dancing and it would solve 90% of the problems with aggression being so weak in sm4sh. The problem no dash dancing creates is that it gives you no options either you go in or you don't and it's painfully obvious when someone is going to go in. That's precisely why it's so strong to sit on one side of the stage and wait for your opponent to come in and punish accordingly. With dash dancing implemented it becomes a whole new game though and suddenly you can react to defensive players and bait out moves in order to go in safely. Right now being aggressive is high risk low reward. The best option we have right now for baiting out moves is dash in and roll backwards, which imo isn't a very good option and is punished pretty easily.

The implementation of a true dash dancing system should be priority #1 for the community to try to get Nintendo to add in if anyone wants this game to be truly competitive and more exciting.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

im pretty sure if dash dancing was in there would be some wonky ass issues with acciental pivot tilts and smashes. in general that would not be a smart design mechanic.
also offence is not weak in this game. its just that defence is not garbage anymore.
there are plenty o safe options on sheild just dont land right in front of the with an attack. spacing is really important to weither or not its safe. also shield stun. and sheild knock back are all factor to taking as well. a heavy slow attack that has great shield knockback can be safe even.
just gotta think before u attack theres nothing that clearly points to offence being weak in my opinoin.

 

[Karsticles]

I agree with the poster that knows how to capitalize letters. This game needs immediate direction shifts as a mobility option.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

im pretty sure if dash dancing was in there would be some wonky *** issues with acciental pivot tilts and smashes. in general that would not be a smart design mechanic.
also offence is not weak in this game. its just that defence is not garbage anymore.
there are plenty o safe options on sheild just dont land right in front of the with an attack. spacing is really important to weither or not its safe. also shield stun. and sheild knock back are all factor to taking as well. a heavy slow attack that has great shield knockback can be safe even.
just gotta think before u attack theres nothing that clearly points to offence being weak in my opinoin.

edit* new here? walcome to smash boards. be careful with posr like these. your lucky u got a rather chill guy like me but i know some rather passionate smash 4 players on here who would attact this thread like no tommarow. and probably slowly turn this thread into safe approach thread or something else.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

You can do it. The timing is just very tight and finnicky.

Movement options are good, especially Dash Dancing. Dash Dancing is just so fun to do in Melee, I really hope they would widen the window to do it.

You can pivot F Smash in Melee in a Dash Dance. You'll see it a lot with Marth.

Also something I like to do a lot if a quick dash dance, only change direction once, into a dash/pivot grab, or pivot f tilt. Talking about Smash 4 here.

But yeah, it exists but the timing is short and if you mess up you might go into some easily punishable turnaround animation.

 

[crazimonkez]

You can do it. The timing is just very tight and finnicky.

Movement options are good, especially Dash Dancing. Dash Dancing is just so fun to do in Melee, I really hope they would widen the window to do it.

You can pivot F Smash in Melee in a Dash Dance. You'll see it a lot with Marth.

Also something I like to do a lot if a quick dash dance, only change direction once, into a dash/pivot grab, or pivot f tilt. Talking about Smash 4 here.

But yeah, it exists but the timing is short and if you mess up you might go into some easily punishable turnaround animation.

The closest thing I could get to dash dancing in Smash 4 was to dash then at the exact moment your dash ends you can input another dash the other way without entering the turnaround animation. It basically looks like dash dancing in Melee except a lot slower and you can only really do it a fixed distance. I know for a fact that this game doesn't support true dash dancing like in melee, but if you've found a suedo way of doing it I'd love to hear it.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I agree with the poster that knows how to capitalize letters. This game needs immediate direction shifts as a mobility option.

im sorry for my crappy grammar i just cant be bothered when typing on the wiiu game pad.

also how come almost every new poster here think this is like meleeboards or somthing. we have a brawl section as well and a smash 64. some people rather enjoy the lak of these mechanics witch i still dont think would be a good choice since pivot tilts are a thing.

 

[Ulevo]

I'm pretty sure that the game would highly benefit from having dash cancelling as well.

 

[cot(θ)]

Dash-dancing isn't gone... It's just hard to do on the 3DS.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

The closest thing I could get to dash dancing in Smash 4 was to dash then at the exact moment your dash ends you can input another dash the other way without entering the turnaround animation. It basically looks like dash dancing in Melee except a lot slower and you can only really do it a fixed distance. I know for a fact that this game doesn't support true dash dancing like in melee, but if you've found a suedo way of doing it I'd love to hear it.

Yeah that's what I was talking about. Its small and you can't really go anywhere with it. It is nice for quick fakeouts/mixups, but it doesn't really have much use. Also, within that use you don't get much.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Yeah that's what I was talking about. Its small and you can't really go anywhere with it. It is nice for quick fakeouts/mixups, but it doesn't really have much use. Also, within that use you don't get much.

u both are talking about different things just to let you know

 

[KlefkiHolder]

u both are talking about different things just to let you know

Care to explain?

SSB4 Dash Dancing is very short, stationary, and has a small window. It doesn't add much to your gameplay but minor momentum mixups. I don't see where we're talking about different things?

 

[RODO]

I've been saying this since I've played the demo.

 

[GeNo-BreaKer]

That's all it needs? I can think of a lot more good stuff, like hitstun that lasts for more than a second, rolls that aren't stupidly useful, actual shieldstun, l cancelling, wavedashing, an airdodge that isn't spammable, the list goes on....

 

[Road Death Wheel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzv-fmiTH_M

@ KlefkiHolder
the video was not for u its just a refferece for the thread

but the differences is that ur taling about the dash dancing in this video.

what hes reffering to is dashing and waiting till the first dash leap is gone than perfect pivot dash in the other direction.
otherwise known as brawl dash dancing.

and oh boy this is slowly becoming a smash 4 is not melee thread

 

[crazimonkez]

@ KlefkiHolder
the video was not for u its just a refferece for the thread

but the differences is that ur taling about the dash dancing in this video.

what hes reffering to is dashing and waiting till the first dash leap is gone than perfect pivot dash in the other direction.
otherwise known as brawl dash dancing.

and oh boy this is slowly becoming a smash 4 is not melee thread

No actually what I was referring to is dash dancing like in melee lol, but I didn't want to just say that because if you mention the word melee you automatically get discredited, sorry for the vague wording.

Edit: And thanks for the vid some pretty cool stuff

 

[Road Death Wheel]

No actually what I was referring to is dash dancing like in melee lol, but I didn't want to just say that because if you mention the word melee you automatically get discredited, sorry for the vague wording.

Edit: And thanks for the vid some pretty cool stuff

to be fairly honest it actually did seem u were describing what was brawl dash dancing lol. my bad.

 

[Lemon Girl]

I think that actual Shieldstun and not being able to airdodge out of tumble would benefit the offensive game more than Melee's Dash Dancing.

 

[Azazel]

I think that actual Shieldstun and not being able to airdodge out of tumble would benefit the offensive game more than Melee's Dash Dancing.

What's wrong with airdodge out of tumble? there is no momentum canceling in Smash 4. you can always just predict an airdodge. And airdodge has gross amount of landing lag.

 

[RIP_Lucas]

I like melee mechanics less and less as time goes on. The barrier to become competitive is ridiculous when artificial things like dash dancing come into play, and it in general leads to less people playing and the same people using the same strategies every time. Sm4sh has clearly put a focus on diversity, with 48 characters all being more or less viable, then committing to balancing patches, camping and approach and all different strategies equally viable (obviously hybrid characters like diddy sheik and lucario have a huge advantage, but we'll ignore that for now). I personally am glad Nintendo had chosen to ignore all the melee fanboys, it leads to a more fun game

Granted, against characters that abuse aerial approaches heavily (jigglypuff, peach, etc.), I do use the pivot dashing to throw them of, so I'm a little bit of a hypocrite

Now, that's not to say I think the game's perfect, like I mentioned, characters with viable close and long range options need some nerf, and I'd nerf rolling and extend hitstun while buffing teching and air dodging, but that's just me

 

[popsofctown]

Can't you true pivot dash dance with any distance you want? Which would be 90% as fast as true dash dancing.

Just get better at frame perfect tech-age

 

[CE_TheLord]

This game just needs a patch to stop that f****** air dodge spamming, it's a really annoying and cheap strategy

 

[kupo15]

Dash-dancing isn't gone... It's just hard to do on the 3DS.

I hate when people use this as an excuse or proof to counter the OP's claim. Is dash dancing in the game? Technically yes, but does it do anything remotely true to what the "real" dash dancing from 64 and melee did? Definitely not.

Its so weak its basically non existent.

 

[RIP_Lucas]

This game just needs a patch to stop that f****** air dodge spamming, it's a really annoying and cheap strategy

Or you could take advantage of hit stun, or even bait an air dodge and punish with an up smash. So combos are harder to do, now you actually have to out think your opponent rather than come in with a better match up.

 

[Azazel]

This game just needs a patch to stop that f****** air dodge spamming, it's a really annoying and cheap strategy

lel, not even remotely an issue. Take advantage of hitstun and baiting airdodges. This is super noticable with Mii fighter. He doesn't have enough hitstun on his moves to get combos yet strings together death combos. he has ridiculous base knockback on a lot of his moves and conditioning opponents to airdodge = early KO's

U-throw > Up-B isn't even a combo yet he can simply predict airdodges

 

[Lemon Girl]

What's wrong with airdodge out of tumble? there is no momentum canceling in Smash 4. you can always just predict an airdodge. And airdodge has gross amount of landing lag.

That's the problem, that you need to predict or bait/frame trap, is not a guaranteed follow up, it just kills hype knowing that someone could have simply avoided the string (even if they are close to the ground, why punish their landing when you could just have continued the combo? is the same thing except one killed the joy of the string, like this), nothing stops your oponent from also predicting you. Without it true combos would be longer without them being unbalanced, is not like they happen all the time anyway. There's already a good amount of times were you will be guessing/baiting already, I don't think combos also need to suffer from that, shields already punish the aggressor if they overcommit.
I'm not trying to suggest the game should be closer to Melee by any extent, I actually love that the game tries to balance defense and offense, and also ground and aerial characters, but I think that it gives the defender too many options, even when they make mistakes their punish isn't that big and they have tools to force the aggressor to go back to neutral or even counter-punish sometimes (like a tourney match were a Rosalina airdodged Diddy's throw > uair and killed him with her own uair).

 

[Teran]

Why do people keep bringing up pivots as if they don't exist in Melee?

I don't wanna be that guy who keeps discussing Melee related stuff on here, but if you're just going to talk out your ass and end up stating things that flat out aren't even true, then I think you should just stop posting.

Seriously, there are scrubby journalists and random people lurking like crazy on here for some reason, don't wanna be spreading bull****!

 

[Shaya]

Gah I swear all these people I never see [much of] LIVE and BREATHE for threads like these popping up.

I'm not sure what mechanics should or shouldn't be added to the game. No one here truly can. Making it more like Melee is the typical response of some and I'm not sure how many times people need to say it, it isn't making it any more likely or "objectively the solution".

We got an extra dash option or two this game, and we're yet to really fully explore it. It may not prove to be quite as helpful as we'd like, but it's an improvement nevertheless. If anything, I wish skid animations in this game weren't so laggy on some characters (Fox/Marth?) while it's kinda seemless on Pikachu, Diddy, Sonic (giving them the best control in their dashes), if this was homogenized (much like how rolls should be, the 25 vs 30 frame roll club is silly) we'd be seeing more characters competing with their dashes in safer ways. So perhaps instead of campaigning for dash dancing (or dash cancelling; something not brought up often but would probably be much nicer) we should be asking "why is this skid animation some 20-25 frames for one character but around 10ish for another?".