The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[Bowser King]

You have no idea how many BRoomers said this exact same thing months and months ago...

So true.

Pit was also another character people thought was "to good"- "he has 2 reflectors and 1 is a spamable move111!!!" (not said by BRoomers)

 

[himynameisruss]

Metaknight Is Op

 

[StripesOrBars]

Melee is better than Brawl, believe it.

 

[Nybb]

I would really only disagree with the boundaries of the tiers; as others have said MK and Snake deserve their own group. I also think that a bottom tier should be formed somewhere around Sonic's current position.

I am also glad that this list will help shut down all the **** Link mainers. Everybody and their grandmother played Link in Melee.

 

[Takumaru]

I don't know if this has been said so i'm going to say it.

The SBR contains some of the best, smartest, and most experienced players in the community. Just because YOU don't think the list is accurate because your main isn't high tier does not mean there is for sure something wrong with the first version of the list. It just means YOU have the problem and can't accept that not everyone thinks as highly of your main as you do.

A lot of thought, time and research went into the first version of the tier list. Don't think for a minute they just casually arranged the characters using some sort fo popularity contest or they picked names from a hat... although knowing some of the BRoomers the second option is possible...

So what if you're character was ranked 25/39 (omg like my main!) you can come in here and argue it all you want. Nothing is going to change until YOU can actually prove that this and that character should move up and down. The only way to do this is go to tourneys, develope the metagame and get some real experience. Theory crafting about how some ideas are viable and throwing out random names of people who happen to have one or two videos where they screw around with the idea doesn't cut it.

 

[Golem the Stern Father]

Metaknight Is Op

No, he isn't. If he was, he would be in a tier list of his own, putting everyone else at the bottom.

Olimar is one of the best characters in the game, believe it.

Melee is better than Brawl, believe it.

I don't think you realized what you are about to start. Let me explain:

- A random n00b that doesn't post in here often will take this seriously and try to defend Brawl.
- This will cause FirusTheHedgehog to post, ripping his post to shreads with senselessness and facts.
- That will cause Trev94 to call Firus a "meany-pants", and do a poor job of defending the n00b and Brawl.
- Next, Yuna comes in and takes apart every statement from the n00b and Trev94, and break down every aspect that was opinion or completely wrong (maybe even correct some of Firus' post).
- Then, Frown will post a not-so-witty sentance detailing how this thread got off track.
- LOL Master then sees a perfect opportunity and spams a statement that is slightly humorous, but irrelevant to anything in discussion.
- This will provoke Overswarm to state that everyone needs to get back on topic, or else, and addresses previous posts relating to the topic.
- Out of nowhere, a random 08'er holds the Caps lock and states "TIERS R 4 QUEERS!".
- The thread is then locked, and a Youko Paaawnch ends the Brawl Tier List Ver 1.0.

Nice job, nice job.....

 

[Zinc Elemental]

No, he isn't. If he was, he would be in a tier list of his own, putting everyone else at the bottom.

Perhaps we're using different definitions of overpowered her. See, to me, overpowered means "better than the character should be". Anyone want to disagree with that regarding MK. Overpowered does not mean unbeatable, it doesn't mean bannable, it simply means he's overly powerful relative to everyone else.

You can make that arguement about any of the top characters. MK's OPing is just the most prominent.

I don't think you realized what you are about to start. Let me explain:

A random n00b that doesn't post in here often will take this seriously and try to defend Brawl. That will cause FirusTheHedgehog to post a nasty response, ripping his post to shreads with senselessness and facts. That will cause Trev94 to call Firus a "meany-pants", and do a poor job of defending the n00b, but defending Brawl. Next, Yuna comes in and takes apart every statement from the n00b and Trev94, and break down every aspect that was opinion or completely wrong (maybe even correct some of Firus' post). Then, Frown will post a not-so-witty sentance detailing how this thread got off track. Then, LOL Master sees a perfect opportunity and spams a statement that is slightly humorous, but irrelevant to anything in discussion. This will provoke Overswarm to state that everyone needs to get back on topic, or else, and addresses previous posts relating to the topic. Out of nowhere, a random 08'er holds the Caps lock and states "TIERS R 4 QUEERS!". The thread is then locked, and a Youko Paaawnch ends the Brawl Tier List Ver 1.0.

Nice job, nice job.....

On the bright side, no one else will be able to say that PTs pokemon should be seperate characters any more.

I kid. Don't start up on Melee v, Brawl.

 

[General Diddy]

Does anybody know why Game and Watch is 4 instead of 3? thats really the only thing i disagree with, i think King Dedede and Mr. Game and Watch should be switched. Is the maybe some particular reason I'm unaware of?

 

[Takumaru]

DDD is a penguin that can wear pink. Did that answer it for you?

 

[SaberPichu]

Middle
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Sheik

Low
Pokémon Trainer
Samus

I`m not sure if this was touched upon before... (and I`m not willing to read through x amount of pages to find out. But why are Zelda, Shiek, Samus and Zero Suit Samus treated as separate characters but Pokemon trainer is one. Shouldn`t Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charzard be on this list as well? If there is a reason for this can the first post be edited to include it?

 

[Zinc Elemental]

Does anybody know why Game and Watch is 4 instead of 3? thats really the only thing i disagree with, i think King Dedede and Mr. Game and Watch should be switched. Is the maybe some particular reason I'm unaware of?

It could go either way in the future, in my personal opinion. DDD has more significant advantages than GaW, but GaW has fewer weaknesses as well. Both are VERY good characters, though, so it's pretty close.

 

[DanGR]

I have the opposite view.

As time goes on, people will learn to escape more and more combos and the game will come down to trading hits. Heavy characters have the weight to take a lot of hits and return stronger blows.

I think MK and GW will slightly shift down because of this.

I thought this a while back as well. Strangely enough, I'm using Olimar. He's got enough REAL combos to compete though.

 

[sHy)(gUy]

Melee is better than Brawl, believe it.

ya thats true, but not relevant to this topic.

If broomers said that months ago then y would it change? If anything olimar has become even better since the metagame progressed. He counters snake and ddd, the second and third best characters in the game. His recovery is only a small dissadvantage compared to his other strengths. At high level play he can certainly compete with the best characters (disregard metaknight). His tourney placings are better over time than alot of characters ahead of him. Theres nothing that warrants him being behind 17 characters in mid-tier? This leads even further to prove that its to early for a tier list and thus list consists of mostly opionated speculation.

In a year if the metagame has proggresed and olimar isnt better than he is now than ill shut-up.

 

[Roihu]

I`m not sure if this was touched upon before... (and I`m not willing to read through x amount of pages to find out. But why are Zelda, Shiek, Samus and Zero Suit Samus treated as separate characters but Pokemon trainer is one. Shouldn`t Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charzard be on this list as well? If there is a reason for this can the first post be edited to include it?

Wow.
You certainly broke Zinc's comment really quick.
You can play with Zelda without having to go to Shiek. Likewise with Shiek. You can play Samus without having to go to Zamus aside from a Smash Ball. Likewise for Zamus.
You CAN'T play Charizard alone without switching. You CAN'T play Ivysaur alone without switching. You CAN'T play Squirtle alone without switching. You CAN'T die without switching. And you CAN'T stay as one Pokemon too long.
That answer your question?
Also, Nybb, there are many players that know Link sucks and still play him just like some players play Captain Falcon.

 

[Mmac]

I`m not sure if this was touched upon before... (and I`m not willing to read through x amount of pages to find out. But why are Zelda, Shiek, Samus and Zero Suit Samus treated as separate characters but Pokemon trainer is one. Shouldn`t Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charzard be on this list as well? If there is a reason for this can the first post be edited to include it?

We've been over this like a hundred times. You can choose to play Zelda, Sheik, Samus, and ZSS separate freely. Pokemon Trainer is pretty much forced to use each of the 3 Pokemon due to Auto Switching and the Fatigue System. Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS don't

Plus Samus is one way also, and the way to transform is rediciously difficult

Edit: Roihu beat me to it ;_ ;

 

[adumbrodeus]

I`m not sure if this was touched upon before... (and I`m not willing to read through x amount of pages to find out. But why are Zelda, Shiek, Samus and Zero Suit Samus treated as separate characters but Pokemon trainer is one. Shouldn`t Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charzard be on this list as well? If there is a reason for this can the first post be edited to include it?

2 words, "forced switching".

1 more word, "stamina".

Both Zelda and Sheik can be used without ever pressing vB (granted, using them together seems to get better results).

Zero Suit Samus can't switch to Samus at all (which also means Samus to ZSS switches are one way).

Pokemon trainer on the other hand, forces you to use everyone.

 

[mentosman8]

All three of my mains(Kirby, Marth, and D3) are in top or high, and my one other character I play consistently, Fox in mid? I'm happy with that

 

[aeghrur]

I can't grasp the idea that olimar is mid. >_< I mean, he's so good. o.O Sigh, lol. I also don't want to accept sonic being low tier atm, but w/e. =/

 

[sHy)(gUy]

I can't grasp the idea that olimar is mid. >_< I mean, he's so good.

I know right, they totally f'd up that one.

 

[Golem the Stern Father]

Perhaps we're using different definitions of overpowered her. See, to me, overpowered means "better than the character should be". Anyone want to disagree with that regarding MK. Overpowered does not mean unbeatable, it doesn't mean bannable, it simply means he's overly powerful relative to everyone else.

You can make that arguement about any of the top characters. MK's OPing is just the most prominent.

I'm glad you responded in an appropriate way, but my statement was a joke.
I don't need to quote some of my posts from the "Meta Knight will/should be banned" thread. Both of us think that he is not overpowering and beatable.

Can the users that do not frequently post in this thread stop stating how surprised _______ is so high/low? We get it, this tier list can be surprising to your own assumption of what you think it should look like, you just don't need to post about your amazment (unless you provide reasoning onto why ______ deserves to be higher/lower).
Also, mindless opinion injection ≠ discussion, one of my biggest peevies.

 

[FrostFalco]

Yeah, Mario's low, considering his Fludd, it sucks.

Everything seems right, except for the fact that DK is high.

 

[PrinceMarthX]

I can't grasp the idea that olimar is mid. >_< I mean, he's so good. o.O Sigh, lol. I also don't want to accept sonic being low tier atm, but w/e. =/

Recovery is so gimpable. Edgehogging is Olimar's worst nightmare.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

I`m not sure if this was touched upon before... (and I`m not willing to read through x amount of pages to find out. But why are Zelda, Shiek, Samus and Zero Suit Samus treated as separate characters but Pokemon trainer is one. Shouldn`t Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charzard be on this list as well? If there is a reason for this can the first post be edited to include it?

*Cries*
*Looks at post again*
*Cries more*

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Recovery is so gimpable. Edgehogging is Olimar's worst nightmare.

The same goes for replacing all of those pikmin that constantly get killed. But, yeah, Olimar is good stuff.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I can't grasp the idea that olimar is mid. >_< I mean, he's so good. o.O Sigh, lol. I also don't want to accept sonic being low tier atm, but w/e. =/

I don't really care about Sonic, Bot Oli is only mid because of his suckish recovery I'm guessing, he should be high though, he is good.

 

[Roihu]

*Cries*
*Looks at post again*
*Cries more*

See what you've done? You've made him go and cry.
Much worse than what I thought was gonna happen....
Olimar is good as long as he stays on the stage. Once he goes off the stage, it's hard to get back on, isn't it?
I'm pretty sure that's why he's where he is.

 

[sHy)(gUy]

Olimar is good as long as he stays on the stage. Once he goes off the stage, it's hard to get back on, isn't it?

No not really, his recovery isnt as bad as people think.
que Dangr

 

[goateeguy]

but marth is the prettiest girl in brawl

ah, my apologies. we were having a misunderstanding about which gender of sexy we were referring to. i believed you were gay among other things. never mind

Ouch... That was brutal honesty lol (it's okay.)... Actually, that's not why I said that. I meant that it doesn't apply to me because tier lists this time around don't work as well as in previous Smash games. (I'm not saying that they don't exist.) My friends are really good at Brawl and that's not an overstatement. As for me, I have a professional mindset in Brawl. Still, thanks for your opinion.

lol, sorry i'm so offensive. but seriously, tiers only really apply to the highest level players, among circles of friends like mine and maybe or maybe not yours they don't do justice, they apply to tournaments where players compete at a national level. it also assumes that all players are at the exact same level of skill, which is really hard to simulate. so i can own my fox playing friends in melee cuz all they do is spam side-b but if i ran into someone like silent wolf i'd be so flipping screwed it's not even funny. So tiers really don't apply to me, cuz i'm not good enough to use every character to his/its/her full potential. if you really are pro (like, you play for money rather than simply playing competitively) then your opinion carries just a bit more weight than mine.

 

[J1nx]

dude...it's not wrong that DK's high.
good DK's are so hard to beat...

 

[adumbrodeus]

There completely different! There both different characters and unlike Pokemon trainer you aren't forced to switch. You can play sheik and not play Zelda but it's almost impossible to only play 1 of PT's Pokemon. Therefore they should be seperate.

The suggestion is not that Zelda/Sheik replaces Zelda and Sheik, the suggestion is that since it's a completely unique playstyle, it should be separate from both Zelda and Sheik.

Who here actually use Zelda/Sheik instead of Zelda OR Sheik though...

Quite a few people actually.

Myself and Sonic are easy examples here, and plenty of high-levele players were previously cited.

but marth is the prettiest girl in brawl

Do I have to link to the "proof of Marth's manliness" thread again?!

indeed... shiek is FRIGHTENINGLY efficient at wracking up damage... so shiek doesn't have much trouble getting an enemy to about 100% damage..... then you switch to zelda... who has nothing but beffy attacks... and they will ALL be COMPLETELY fresh.... she has moves that are effective at close trange (Dsmash and Nayru's) and then can devestate at the extent of her range with everything else.... and some of her atttacks can even kill bowser in double digit damage O.O


it is a GREAT combination.... plus they have a few transformation tricks which make transitioning rather easy.

seriously... Zelda/Shiek has some of the most potential in the game

Unfortunately, there are characters that are better at it. Still, Zelda/Sheik gets rid of a lot of both's bad match-ups, and generally improves both their abilities against every fighter. You just need to get room to transform.

I don't know if this has been said so i'm going to say it.

The SBR contains some of the best, smartest, and most experienced players in the community. Just because YOU don't think the list is accurate because your main isn't high tier does not mean there is for sure something wrong with the first version of the list. It just means YOU have the problem and can't accept that not everyone thinks as highly of your main as you do.

A lot of thought, time and research went into the first version of the tier list. Don't think for a minute they just casually arranged the characters using some sort fo popularity contest or they picked names from a hat... although knowing some of the BRoomers the second option is possible...

So what if you're character was ranked 25/39 (omg like my main!) you can come in here and argue it all you want. Nothing is going to change until YOU can actually prove that this and that character should move up and down. The only way to do this is go to tourneys, develope the metagame and get some real experience. Theory crafting about how some ideas are viable and throwing out random names of people who happen to have one or two videos where they screw around with the idea doesn't cut it.

Emblem Lord was not involved in and disagrees with Marth's placement.

He came to the same conclusion that the rest of the Marth community did, that Marth has better match-ups and places better on average then at least 2 chars put ahead of him.

Also, there is NO excuse for ignoring the gap between MK and Snake and the rest of the cast.


Sorry, but that's an enormous argumentium Ad Hominem fallacy.

Sure, they're more likely to be right then the average Smasher, but they aren't omniscient, they can make mistakes. I can point to a post where a backroomer said that Marth had bad match-ups against everyone and their grandmother, only to have me point out that he was wrong on every point except MK, furthermore both character specific boards disagreed with his opinions on this.

Again, backroomers make mistakes, that's why it's our job as a community to attack the list logically, if it stands then it's good. If it doesn't, then they know what to do next tier list...

Or that would work if they actually bothered to provide reasoning to defend the list. So far the only backroomer I've heard on this that actually provided depth on the topic... provided reasoning on why it was wrong.

 

[thesage]

Actually at lower levels of play some characters are better than others, it's just different characters. IE in melee sheik dominated due to low level of skill required to be decent. In brawl Ike ***** noobs.

 

[FishStix]

My crew's Pikachu is absolutely unstoppable. I seriously can't find a way to beat him as my Diddy (my R.O.B. works a little better). Not that this means pika should be higher tier, simply adding to the arguments

 

[SaberPichu]

*Cries*
*Looks at post again*
*Cries more*

See what you've done? You've made him go and cry.
Much worse than what I thought was gonna happen....

Yeah I see that... I'm a horrible horrible person who just asked a simple question because he couldn't be bothered to look at anything past the first page. And had it been asked about 100 times all read it should have been edited in to the first post to stop people from asking the stupid question in the first place.

I just don't know how I will live with this heinous guilt of making somebody cry over the Internet!

And here I was thinking that a Tier list just for accuracy's sake would maybe, just maybe have the individual pokemon listed despite the stamina, and being forced to switch out so that people would know where they stand as individuals.

Preparing to get flamed in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1…

 

[d_shep04]

this tier this is BS man... this can't be the OFFICIAL tier list b/c Link, Mario, Lucas, Ness would **** most of those people considered Middle/High... just from the people i've played... and I really have yet 2 find anyone to actually agree with this tier list...

 

[Pierce7d]

I think you are wrong and I agree with this tier list. My argument against Mario was maybe 10 pages back, and Ness and Lucas are easily gimpable, and have no range really, just good priority on some moves. They're also very light.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

And here I was thinking that a Tier list just for accuracy's sake would maybe, just maybe have the individual pokemon listed despite the stamina, and being forced to switch out so that people would know where they stand as individuals.

Preparing to get flamed in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1…

I'm not going to flame you, but I would like to point that since matches in Brawl last longer than two minutes it's kind of hard to gauge that sort of thing BECAUSE of the stamina.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Zinc Elemental]

I'm glad you responded in an appropriate way, but my statement was a joke.
I don't need to quote some of my posts from the "Meta Knight will/should be banned" thread. Both of us think that he is not overpowering and beatable.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your joke. I agree with you on the MK thing, so there's no reason for us to argue about linguistics.

 

[adumbrodeus]

this tier this is BS man... this can't be the OFFICIAL tier list b/c Link, Mario, Lucas, Ness would **** most of those people considered Middle/High... just from the people i've played... and I really have yet 2 find anyone to actually agree with this tier list...

Then the people that they've played are weaker then them...

Mario is poor, and Lucas and Ness aren't really all that good.


Also, you might want to realize that most people disagree with wtf portions, not the overall list. And some of those complaints are BS.

There ARE issues, but it's not that bad of a tier list.

 

[Knickknacks]

y must PT have that 2 minute rule anyways? T___T

 

[TheDuplexDuo]

HUJAIWAHAJIMANJIMOFLOBOHMOOMANDOOJENSON!!?!​

BOWSER IS MIDDLE TIER!?​

Really? Dang! I only played as him becouse I thought he was low tier. I guess I'd better stick to my Pokemon Trainer and Gannon then... >_>​

​