The Official 'Online is gonna suck' thread. Competitive playing? Nah...

[Kor]

Human Nature - Nothing is satisfactory. Everything could always be improved upon.

 

[Misto-Roboto]

Give people anything and they'll find a way to complain about it.

Nintendo can't even win with their own audience because some of their audience is spoiled by companies who can stand to lose money on their systems...

 

[Elgnit_The_Evil_Twin]

Lag probably won't be a problem if you are playing someone in your own country.


I'm not all THAT worried.

 

[raphtmarqui]

Give people anything and they'll find a way to complain about it.

Quoted for truth

 

[METROID MAN]

What is even the point in discussing?
yes, there is lagg.
yes, it gets worse with distance. ok, for the super amazing smashers who cant afford lag, adapet or JUST DONT USE IT CAUSE FOR EVERYONE ELSE, IT WILL ROCK!

 

[Xanderous]

You have good points, but you can't base that off of Melee's lag in some levels. This is the Nintendo Wii not the Nintendo Gamecube, The Wii is way more powerful then the GameCube, but i wouldn't be surpised if it was still their *cough* LylatCruise*Cough* with all that commotion in the back ground

We're talking about network lag, not slowdown.

Huge difference, and has very little to do with a system's power.

 

[specialsauce]

wow i cant believe it( well actually i can but anyways) people are actually complainin now about brawls online mode! yes i wish that there could have been ranked matches but its still online and also sakurai said "We’re planning a number of services that make use of Wi-Fi, but we’ll reveal them gradually with the other modes. Enjoy." this leaves things pretty much wide open because it means that this is just the begining of what online capibilities they have in store for us so just wait and be happy that brawl is finally confirmed to have online!

 

[Coen]

METROID MAN: That's the whole point, discussing how people see it as capable of going competitively or not. That's what we're discussing.

What's also the point is that people are going to think of themselves as gods when they manage to beat a lot of people online and that there's just no proper way to get an accurate ranking from online play, which will maybe give a plain ridiculous ranking of top players (for example, having a 100% win rate by just playing the same person who's far worse than you again and again and thus achieving a higher ranking), which will not reflect the truth well and give people wrong impressions. That's how I see it. Of course, I can be wrong on all parts.

And to the people who are dying to say 'Nintendo said there's not gonna be a ranking', I'll quote myself:

Your opponent will not know your name or any information about you, and neither of you can send short messages. There will also be no battle records kept for this mode, so whether you win or lose, it doesn’t matter. Just sit back and play.

The first sentence is clearly still giving information about the 'Battle anyone' mode. Why would they suddenly change subjects in the middle of a paragraph? That doesn't make any sense. They would have put the 'It doesn't matter whether you win or lose, no battle record' somewhere else in the update. As of now it just seems that it is relevant to the 'Battle anyone' mode, not to Wifi in general. Mark my words.

Speicalsauce: I totally understand you opinion. Myself, I have mixed feelings about online play. But you're right, we should be happy there's online at all.

AND TO EVERYONE WHO SAYS 'LAG ISN'T GOING TO RUIN ONLINE PLAY':

I never implied it ruins online play, actually I think it's going to be fun. I just don't think it qualifies for competitive playing and thus potentially creates wrong views on players.

 

[Limey]

That guy who said about serious business made me lol. I do agree with him, though.

The lag isn't going to ruin online, it'll just mean that it won't be used competitively. Is that really that much of a big deal, though? I haven't been to a tourney (due to lack of them in Wales) but i imagine that the socialising and the buzz you get off playing while sitting next to your opponent is so much better than over the internet.

I'm already planning matches against my friend from school ho i haven't seen in a few years, so it's all good.

 

[Monkeh]

It's also possible to start competitions and 'clan-matches' on the internet, something like Clanbase. All you need to do is exchange Friend Codes and you're ready to Brawl. You could just post the outcome on the ladder, or whatever, and there you go... you've got online-ranking!

 

[Stewie1288]

Online will be no replacements for tournaments, but for people that have no challenging opponents to play against it will be a godsend. I think it will improve the skill of the brawl community over all making for consistently better matches and it will keep things interesting. Some of us don't like noob stomps every game. =)

 

[Testament27]

this is so pathetic... you guys are so pessimistic. they havent even revealed everything and you guys havent played it and yall are already being *****es about it.

the guy gives us something great and none of yall can be happy with it

 

[Coen]

It's called Speculation. It's what we do here on Smashboards, being ***** ^^

don't take the title of this topic too seriously. I'm just trying to find out opinions about how seriously we should take it for competitive use.

 

[EmuKiller]

This update didn't bother me. I'm just hoping you can customize gameplay (e.g. stock instead of timed, item switch) for friend matches. That's the only information I care about.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I was never planning on using online as a source of competative play. It's an available option for those with no liable transportation. Despite what other people may think, online is not a substitute for an actual tournament, because playing in real time if often way more different (And frame dependant) to adapt to.

The Smash community is an extrovert one, so live/local tournaments will still take place. Possibly, more than ever.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I like it how everyone here thinks it'll just be cometetive players online.

They make it seem like other players don't know how to recover or punch, and that they have never played a Smash game before.

There are going to be some really good players online, it's not just us in the world.

 

[Gamingboy]

I'll go through the arguments one by one:

NO RANKING SYSTEM

Should Nintendo have ranked this? Well, in a way... no. There would have been no way to show how well a person really did, especially given the fact that so many variables exist in a fight, as opposed to a car race. It would be impossible (or, rather, ridiculously hard) to distinguish between a person who has fought the best of the best and lost and a person who has fought 6-year olds and won.

Lag

Yes, it will happen, but it's a function of the internet. Hopefully there will be a "local", "region" and "world-wide" option.

No voice chat

For one thing, nintendo doesn't have a VOICE-CHAT SPEAKER OUT ANYWAY (although they should), so that'd be difficult. Additionally, consider what most voice-chat things end up becoming anyway: a bunch of swearing, singing, unintelligible group of buffoons. I DO think that it should have been available for friend mode, though.

Nintendo's stance about Online in general

Nintendo, for better or worse, is still the company most associated with "family" video games. I don't like it, you don't like it... but it's true. And it's also true that it's good for business. Hardcore gamers will never die, and companies will never stop catering to them, but guess what.. the casuals are becoming more and more numerous, and SSBB will be one of those rare games that will appeal to both. And it is better to have some online play (but without the swearing and oh so slight possibility of sexual predators) then none. I don't like it (I think it could be solved with a option), but guess what? That's the way it is.

 

[gnosis]

blah blah blah rankings

Yes, I agree, some form of rankings will be available in Friends Only mode. I fail to see how that translates to any new annoyance.

If it's Friends Only, it will be contained to Friends Only... meaning it's only going to based off of win records versus friends, and only your friends are going to know about it.

Which sounds suspiciously similar to the scrub who can beat everyone at his school so he thinks he's the best in the world. In other words, nothing we haven't already been dealing with forever.

 

[Coen]

I like it how everyone here thinks it'll just be cometetive players online.

They make it seem like other players don't know how to recover or punch, and that they have never played a Smash game before.

There are going to be some really good players online, it's not just us in the world.

It's the exact opposite. Lots of noobs (well, noobs, you know what I mean), little competitives. Just the way it's right now with Melee, just online.

 

[kilroy]

it really depends on what you mean by "competetive."

will there be money involved with online tourneys? no.

will online tourneys replace RL tourneys? no.

will online tourneys happen? definately.

will they mean anything competetively? i'd say yes.

but it will mean something in an all new category: the online tourney. in this category, no johns has to include complaining about lag. we all know what we're signing up for. adapt or perish.

i imagine, let's say, a local region (say statewide) online tourney organized here on SB. people exchange FCs, and tallies of wins and losses are kept. war stories are exchanged. people learn, grow, new friendships and rivalries develop.

it'll certainly hold weight as competetive, and it'll be useful, and it'll be distinct.

my .02.

 

[will388]

i dont play with people in japan... what about u guys?

oh

 

[Master Peach]

I Won't really take online play seriously. if it's anything like strikers, I'll just play every now and then or when I'm board. I can't take a game seriously if there's going to be Lag. And with noobs online winning lag matches and thinking their so hot. No thx.

I'd rather do the thing I always do. Invite my friends during the weekend and play them here.
No lag no problem. Am I right?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Wi-Fi wasn't like what I was hoping. Only up to four fighters can battle it out at the same time.

 

[Doggalina]

Wi-Fi wasn't like what I was hoping. Only up to four fighters can battle it out at the same time.

What? How's that a bad thing.

I'm just happy there is online. My friend (and one of my Smash buddies) just moved to Pittsburgh, which is a good five hours from NW Indiana, so I'll be able to play him online.

 

[RokkuManZer0]

Ok, to all you guys whining about the lack of a ranking system...

Would you rank Friendly Matches? The logical answer is no. Ok, so that's one out of the way. What about "With Anyone"? How would you rank a 1v1v1v1 FFA match? Kills? Wins? Losses? It's not possible. The only way we'd get a ranking system is if we had a Singles Wi-Fi mode and a Teams Wi-Fi mode, this way it'd be possible to rank people but otherwise it's no use.

Are those 2 modes still hidden in Sakurai's sleeve? Maybe. He said he had other modes to show down the road.

As for the lag... It's granted. Who else was expecting no lag while playing from Europe to Japan/America to Europe/etc...? Let's be serious here. Just play with people around your zone/country/state for little/no lag matches and if you want to play against other people farther away, expect a little more lag.

Live multiplayer will never die. It's the essence of Smash. But still online helps a lot for those people who don't have friends who are pro smashers, or whose friends live too far away.

Be happy guys, we got Wi-Fi, we can now play each other even if we lag a bit. I'm sincerely looking forward to playing most of you. Though I'm from Europe so it might be a ***** to play most of you. I know Fawriel is from Germany, so that's one. xD

 

[Salaad]

I can't believe we got Wi-Fi and people are still being *****y about it.

 

[SilintNinjya]

i have an xbox and xbox live and i can tell you for a fact that there is NO fighting game that is lagless...in fact, there is NO game that is lagless if it is online. they might have lag compensation, but thats not possible in a game like smash and only really works in shooting games.

and lets face it, in EVERY genre, the better the players are the more important lag is. high level quake players can make fatal mistakes from just the tiniest hiccup in lag and it will cost them the whole game. RTS players depend on almost no lag at all.

so quite complaining about lag. its unavoidable. playing in person will ALWAYS be better than online no matter what game your playing. you use online to weed out the really bad players, then those few at the top you have show up at a tournament where they can play in person where lag is no longer an issue.

do you guys (the people who are complaining) have problems with cars that require you to buy gas too?

 

[cultofrubik]

do you guys (the people who are complaining) have problems with cars that require you to buy gas too?

Well put. The internet isn't perfect. Worldwide play is just for fun anyways! Lets take our Christmas presents one at a time and enjoy them shall we?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Online results will never be taken seriously by serious players. Look at Halo 2 and Mario Strikers Charged for ideal examples. Halo has the best online play of almost any game (non-PC), but tournaments are still hosted live. Strikers (a good Nintendo example) is fun, but people don't go running through the streets shouting, "ZOMG, I beat player #1!" We know how meaningless online matches are for two reasons: (1) The higher ranks only show who plays the MOST, not the BEST. (2) Lag and other issues lead to unfair matches, so a live setting would be required to settle the score.

 

[SS4Ricky]

I can't believe we got Wi-Fi and people are still being *****y about it.

agreed 100%. I can promise that most, if not everyone complaining about wifi in this topic would complain even more if there was no wifi in brawl. it's gonna be good, if not, like MLG and every other big gaming tournament, we're going to go the distance to play people in person. At least we have options now, they could have pulled "Only friendcode" like they did with Diamond/Pearl.

 

[Redd]

RICKYYYYYYY!!!!!!

 

[masterbraz]

Nintendo can't even win with their own audience because some of their audience is spoiled by companies who can stand to lose money on their systems...

Actually the wii is the only console that made a profit from the start. Starcraft has better online then smash bros does. It has servers. Lag could be a problem that couldnt be helped, however how about friend codes? Why does Nintendo need friend codes? What a ridiciulous and hypocritical policy.
People will always complain. All I'm asking for is an online mode that is as good as what the original x-box had. Seeing as wii is next gen and smashing being a killer title,it is not ridiculous to expect basic things-lobbies, voicechat,names of who we are fighting,no friendcodes.,etc. Come on we dont even get a rival system like MPH.

 

[cyberdemon]

I'm not confident did what he could. There are no limitations. Xbox has online with voice chat and close to no lag in fighting games. The least this game could do is voice chat, online, and close to no lag. Nintendo is failing hardcore.

couldn't agree more

 

[Eight Sage]

people don't go running through the streets shouting, "ZOMG, I beat player #1!" We know how meaningless online matches are for two reasons: (1) The higher ranks only show who plays the MOST, not the BEST. (2) Lag and other issues lead to unfair matches, so a live setting would be required to settle the score.

I couldn't agree more. Online is for FUN. Ranking system, tournaments and everything involving online is for mere FUN.

Imagine fighting a newbie and then another and another... your ranking goes high, but does it mean you're good? NO. You can't take Internet seriously.

 

[l!l]

online = fun

I dont really care about ranking systems, and I dont think lag will be a problem, itll be like any other online game.

Besides, I dont need a ranking system, I *KNOW* im the best player out there.

 

[Weed]

At least we can practice against random people when there would otherwise be the computer/nobody.
And forums eliminate the friend code problem.

Wi-Fi is serious business imo

 

[Red Exodus]

I couldn't agree more. Online is for FUN. Ranking system, tournaments and everything involving online is for mere FUN.

Imagine fighting a newbie and then another and another... your ranking goes high, but does it mean you're good? NO. You can't take Internet seriously.

There are so many ways to combat that problem it's not funny. For example, points or whatever would be worth near nothing for beating a newb, or you would just be allowed to fight someone in your rank [in ranked matches only of course].

those were off the top of my head.


How about you imagine this. Fighting newbie after newbie after newbie and having no reasonable way to fight a random decent person, and the one time you do find a decent player they get thrown in the sea of random players when your match is done.

Now that is not fun.

 

[FreakyVoiceDude]

I'd have been happy if it was just friend-code based. Never expected it to be tourney-compatible, just hoped to be able to play my friends without the gas money and traffic. Plus, it would open up training opportunities all across the web, thus improving the playing community as a whole and reaching out to people stranded out in the middle of nowhere. The random mode...Expected something just as basic, it'll be fun when everyone else is offline. I expect to see some funny junk going down between the five year old playing on his brother's system and drunken frat guys trying to pause the game into sexual positions.

It's bare bones, clunky, but functional. Good enough for me, better than nothing at all. Tourneys will never touch it, though.

 

[Kentalish]

i say we close this thread they only announced 2 types so far


he said there would be more and theres also a new section for online in game modes


edit u still need friends codes look at all the pictures again

 

[A6M Zero]

Well, Kentalicious and I can play with essentially no lag (30 minute driving distance), but I can see where it might be a problem playing online competitively.

I don't think there's any doubt that there's not going to be serious-for-credit competitive play, but you have to remember as far as we know Brawl is a significantly "slower" game than Melee all aspects considered, those 60ths of a second might not be as absolutely essential as they are in Melee, not saying they won't matter, but it won't be the most important thing in the world.

Player in their own province/state are still going to be able to play with a fairly-accurate degree of skill, Kent and I will be able to play almost like we were on the same TV, and Kent and I will be able to play with the smashers in Vancouver (like you Weed) with pretty much minimal possible lag as well (gunna pwn you Eric).

And even so, we'll still be able to play against same-coast players cross border, British Columbia players can still play American players and unless someone has a really terrible connection,or unless both players are almost dead same caliber, you'll still be able to see who's better.