The Official "Competitive Viability Speculaiton of Smash 4" Thread

[JoeInky]

I know that you're sick of all the "glass half empty" types but personally I'm just as sick of all the "glass half full" types who try to reduce every discussion to "It'll be fun anyway so who cares" as if fun is some objective quality that is the same for everyone.

You don't see me making a "The official "This game will be fun, who cares about the rest" smash 4 thread" thread, do you?

Reading your posts has become increasingly annoying these past few weeks but this "official" (official by what standards? the standards of a guy who hates the subject matter of the thread? sod off) thread really takes the biscuit.

 

[topspin1617]

I know that you're sick of all the "glass half empty" types but personally I'm just as sick of all the "glass half full" types who try to reduce every discussion to "It'll be fun anyway so who cares" as if fun is some objective quality that is the same for everyone.

You don't see me making a "The official "This game will be fun, who cares about the rest" smash 4 thread" thread, do you?

Reading your posts has become increasingly annoying these past few weeks but this "official" (official by what standards? the standards of a guy who hates the subject matter of the thread? sod off) thread really takes the biscuit.

You sound awfully angry about this thread.

Nobody is stopping you or anyone else from posting topics with legitimate complaints about Smash 4. I see this thread simply as an effort to cut down on the simplistic "it's slow = game is bad", "Marth's fair has too much landing lag = game is bad" type threads. I have to say, those types of topics annoy me too. I have zero issues with a well-thought out opinion on a particular feature of the game and why one may think it's not good for competitive play. What I DO have an issue with is what I just stated; "opinions" that have very little substance that are then used to proclaim that Smash 4 is dead before it even comes out.

Marth's fair guarantees the whole game will be bad as much as one auto-cancelling aerial guarantees the whole game will be good. I suppose the reason you don't see an equivalent thread telling people to condense all of the positive things into one topic is... well... I guess negativity annoys more people than positivity does. But nothing's really stopping you from posting a "if you don't hate Smash 4, stick to this thread" thread if you want to.

 

[Zzuxon]

There is no tripping.
Smash 4 will be better by default.

 

[LightningVance]

Exactly this, we don't make a big thread and tell you GO PUT ALL ART, LEAKS, ROSTER STUFF, AND AMIIBOS HERE. We honestly don't care and let them have different topics because they are well...different topics.

Most of the competitive topics are different topics as well. Its just that people like him and others like to complain about people trying to determine what matters to them. Competitive Viability of the game.

Basically. He shouldn't have made this, if somebody who actually cared about the competitive viability made the topic and not somebody who insulted it at every turn made it we might have gotten somewhere. Right now he is just grouping all topics into a forum Gulag or Slum just because he doesn't want to see "our kind" anywhere else.

Dude there were 3 topics made in the last couple days about "What if smash fails competitively". I think the competitive scene is ridiculous but I don't give a damn if people wanna talk about it, be my guest, but stop making up Smash Bros Not Melee sucks because _____ threads.

He made the thread without the intent of flipping sh*t over the topic and all you competitive players are freaking the hell out that he's discriminating against you players. He's not. He wanted a single thread where competitive discussion could be discussed so that these clone threads would stop, is that really so gosh darn hard to understand?

Sorry for the shots fired it just seemed like you were attacking the OP trying to put words in his mouth.

At least the mods could make up a sub-forum for competitive discussion or something.

 

[κomıc]

The 500th competitive thread.

 

[Renji64]

so much rage.

 

[JoeInky]

At least the mods could make up a sub-forum for competitive discussion or something.

I thought the main purpose of smashboards was for competitive discussion? Why should it be relegated to a sub forum.

 

[<π]

ANYTHING can be competitively viable. games that are actually designed to be not competitive games (like Legend of zelda, Mario 64, Tomb raider, Single player games) Have become competitive through speed running.
I mean really... Dog shows, Cook offs, who can eat more, who can hold their breath the longest, best booty, best smile, best sheik main .

If there are 2 people out there who want to play the game in such a way that one is better than the other then the game already is competitive by definition of the word.

 

[Senario]

I say we just leave this topic ans let it die then we can make our own topic that isnt condescending towards competitive play.

 

[Reila]

I will play it, viable or not. But I speculate that it will be viable, because every past Smash game has been viable.

Me too. Brawl not being viable (according to diehard Melee/PM players, of course) didn't stop me from playing it for years.

I say we just leave this topic ans let it die then we can make our own topic that isnt condescending towards competitive play.

So you will leave this thread to die, to make your own thread that is condescending towards people who aren't overly competitive. Great.

 

[JoeInky]

I say we just leave this topic ans let it die then we can make our own topic that isnt condescending towards competitive play.

This is the main thing, I wouldn't mind a general thread to condense certain discussions that are too minor to have a proper thread into a single thread.

But this thread is literally just "I hate seeing people talk about the competitive side of smash so I want to contain all of it in a single thread".

If it was any other poster I might consider this thread a genuine attempt at being something productive, but we all know that's not what this is, this is just someone who doesn't want to see the game criticised and is trying to lash out in their own, spiteful little way.

 

[JV5Chris]

Shield changes, landing lag, stage discussion, throw knock back, recovery, throw changes, hitstun, SDI, and even custom moves are all separate topics. None of them are exclusively competitive topics either.

Throwing all these topics together as they relate to the competitive scene is just going to create one big mess. I get the frustration with similar threads, but this is not a solution. It's just downright terrible for discussion. Also people really shouldn't create threads they don't plan on participating in.

 

[κomıc]

This is the main thing, I wouldn't mind a general thread to condense certain discussions that are too minor to have a proper thread into a single thread.

But this thread is literally just "I hate seeing people talk about the competitive side of smash so I want to contain all of it in a single thread".

If it was any other poster I might consider this thread a genuine attempt at being something productive, but we all know that's not what this is, this is just someone who doesn't want to see the game criticised and is trying to lash out in their own, spiteful little way.

On the other hand, there really is no need for "competitive threads" taking over the SSB4 forum. It is redundant and all it does is create stress for some people.

 

[JoeInky]

On the other hand, there really is no need for "competitive threads" taking over the SSB4 forum. It is redundant and all it does is create stress for some people.

1) I don't think they're "taking over" the board, and if they are, it's because we've been given **** all else to talk about recently. But they aren't, most of the threads on the front page are about inane stuff that I don't find interesting whatsoever and yet somehow I find the self-control not to go into threads I have no interest in and try to act condescending about why people would care about that stuff.

2) If you get so defensive and stressed over the very idea that someone might criticise an unreleased game that you have to go into a thread and start **** posting instead of going to the thread you were going to go to about the new main theme tune or whatever, I think you need to step back and take a few breathers and reassess why you're taking this so personally.

 

[Senario]

Me too. Brawl not being viable (according to diehard Melee/PM players, of course) didn't stop me from playing it for years.

So you will leave this thread to die, to make your own thread that is condescending towards people who aren't overly competitive. Great.

Because I totally said i would be condescending to those who aren't competitive. Unlike you I don't care what other people do with their freaking game or what they care about. I don't try to impose my will on them.

 

[---]

If you're here to complain about competitive threads, please take it to PMs with the Smash 4 staff or Forum Support.

At least the mods could make up a sub-forum for competitive discussion or something.

We are currently working on something as we speak, and hope to have it up soon. All I shall say is that it'll be strictly monitored.

 

[κomıc]

1) I don't think they're "taking over" the board, and if they are, it's because we've been given **** all else to talk about recently. But they aren't, most of the threads on the front page are about inane stuff that I don't find interesting whatsoever and yet somehow I find the self-control not to go into threads I have no interest in and try to act condescending about why people would care about that stuff.

2) If you get so defensive and stressed over the very idea that someone might criticise an unreleased game that you have to go into a thread and start **** posting instead of going to the thread you were going to go to about the new main theme tune or whatever, I think you need to step back and take a few breathers and reassess why you're taking this so personally.

1) They are taking over.

2) I'm not speaking for myself. It sounds like you're stressed. Have some tea:

 

[Crawful]

People seem to be forgetting about Custom Movesets.
Instead of outright banning the movesets, I can see competitive Smash having a website akin to Smogon, with characters and competitive movesets for each character, which is the best to use against who, and which is best all together.
Not only that, but what they could do is allow the other players to see the movesets everyone's using, so no one is left surprised by a move they didn't know or expect. Mindgames would end up skyrocketing, and this game will look much more competitive than the other games, at least from a reliability standpoint. At this point, Sm4sh will end up probably being just as big as Melee, and even though things like Wavedashing, L-Cancelling, DACUS, SHFFL, etc aren't in, that doesn't stop Sm4sh from having its own unique style of gameplay that we've never seen in a fighting game before.

 

[ferioku]

I'm not going to judge the game until I play the final version. I'm sick of all these depressing youtube videos that rant on the game for being slow and i'm sick of casuals bashing competitive players, it's bad stuff from both sides.

Hopefully the game shuts both sides up because it's really getting on my nerves.

I need a Smash game that's competitively viable but recent and fun to play too, so I don't feel like i'm playing a game that was specifically catered to one side or another. Please Smash 4, please.

Finally, someone who thinks exactly the same as me!

 

[Raijinken]

I thought the main purpose of smashboards was for competitive discussion? Why should it be relegated to a sub forum.

To help people who want to discuss competition sort out competitive discussion from discussions about alt costumes, voice actors, 3DS bundles, music polling, and the like. Alternately, force all of those to sub forums. However, none of those are prominent enough topics to warrant a sub forum, while competitive things are.

 

[topspin1617]

But this thread is literally just "I hate seeing people talk about the competitive side of smash so I want to contain all of it in a single thread".

Now you're just making up words to put in the OP's mouth... nowhere does he say anything close to that.

 

[Yodude57]

I'm personally hoping. That's all I can do, though, hope, because we really have jack **** to go on. Which means headcanons, biases, rumors, and blatant lies get mixed up with the facts way too much.


I think the general opinion of what makes a game more competitive is basically that it's a better spectator sport.
Strictly speaking, Brawl was as competitive as Melee, but it was a lot less fun to watch.

So far sm4sh has been fun to watch. Let's hope it stays that way

I thought the main purpose of smashboards was for competitive discussion? Why should it be relegated to a sub forum.

I don't think he means competitive discussion. I think he means competitive complaining.

 

[Hydde]

I need a Smash game that's competitively viable but recent and fun to play too, so I don't feel like i'm playing a game that was specifically catered to one side or another. Please Smash 4, please.

This.

I dont know why Sakurai had to totally ditch Melee´s gameplay..... when EVERY ****ING CASUAL enjoyed the game in the very same way every hardcore played enjoyed it.

Its not like EVERYONE who buys a smash game will be attending a venue to duck it out with other skilled smashnerds.

Most people play the game at home and enjoy it. Heck, It took me a couple years after playing melee for the first time to realize there were people skilled enought to make the game different.

Most normal players just dont care about tournies and being good...they will just play it regardless.

So why not to make a game that appeals to everyone?

 

[topspin1617]

This.

I dont know why Sakurai had to totally ditch Melee´s gameplay..... when EVERY ****ING CASUAL enjoyed the game in the very same way every hardcore played enjoyed it.

Its not like EVERYONE who buys a smash game will be attending a venue to duck it out with other skilled smashnerds.

Most people play the game at home and enjoy it. Heck, It took me a couple years after playing melee for the first time to realize there were people skilled enought to make the game different.

Most normal players just dont care about tournies and being good...they will just play it regardless.

So why not to make a game that appeals to everyone?

There are a lot of "casuals" that prefer some of Brawl's mechanics to Melee's. Also, I really hate the "casuals will buy it anyway so who gives a damn if their experience isn't everything it could be?" mentality.

Your statements of "I dont know why Sakurai had to totally ditch Melee´s gameplay" followed by "So why not to make a game that appeals to everyone?" seem to imply that Smash cannot appeal to hardcore players unless it has Melee's gameplay. I'd say these players are more Melee fans than they are Smash fans.

 

[Xiaphas]

I think the competitive melee fans will keep playing melee, and most brawl fans will probably migrate. With enough players, Smash4 will have a competitive scene.

The real question is whether Smash4 tournaments will be as entertaining to watch as Melee, and that is something we just won't know until it comes out.

 

[Hydde]

There are a lot of "casuals" that prefer some of Brawl's mechanics to Melee's. Also, I really hate the "casuals will buy it anyway so who gives a damn if their experience isn't everything it could be?" mentality.

Your statements of "I dont know why Sakurai had to totally ditch Melee´s gameplay" followed by "So why not to make a game that appeals to everyone?" seem to imply that Smash cannot appeal to hardcore players unless it has Melee's gameplay. I'd say these players are more Melee fans than they are Smash fans.

Proof is that no one complained in the melee times because everyone was satisfied with it. Brawl came and divided the community like never before. It was a needless change, and if some liked it, good for them, but they liked a game that divided this community, unlike melee which unified it.

And obvs we are more 64 and melee fans than "smash" fans. You cannot get something and shove it into someone´s trhoat because it has a brand name. The product needs to be ON PAR or better in comparison with previous installments. Brawl took such a twist it was unbearable by a lot of people.

and this:

"casuals will buy it anyway so who gives a damn if their experience isn't everything it could be?"

When "casuals" complained about melee not being the experience they liked the most?. You are talking like if melee was an unplayable atrocity in comparison with the "real" casual deal called brawl. Guess what? everyone , EVERYONE, started playing melee casually and had a good laught at it. The game could be played in both ways if you wanted.
But no, we have to bend over to the wishes of this asian overlord and accept everything he does? Yeah right.
He call some of us even "maniacs". FFS

 

[Hydde]

I think the competitive melee fans will keep playing melee, and most brawl fans will probably migrate. With enough players, Smash4 will have a competitive scene.

The real question is whether Smash4 tournaments will be as entertaining to watch as Melee, and that is something we just won't know until it comes out.

I dont care if it is not a melee, well, at this point we all now it will not be.... in fact smash under sakurai will NEVER return to the melee physics.... but at least what i would like is for smashU to not be the campy snorefest that Brawl was.

If it can improve on it and be exiciting in its own way, then so be it...we all will play it.

If it is NOT exicting in the eyes of many.. ill will turn into Brawl 2.0, a game that will not last.

 

[DraginHikari]

Proof is that no one complained in the melee times because everyone was satisfied with it. Brawl came and divided the community like never before. It was a needless change, and if some liked it, good for them, but they liked a game that divided this community, unlike melee which unified it.

And obvs we are more 64 and melee fans than "smash" fans. You cannot get something and shove it into someone´s trhoat because it has a brand name. The product needs to be ON PAR or better in comparison with previous installments. Brawl took such a twist it was unbearable by a lot of people.

and this:


When "casuals" complained about melee not being the experience they liked the most?. You are talking like if melee was an unplayable atrocity in comparison with the "real" casual deal called brawl. Guess what? everyone , EVERYONE, started playing melee casually and had a good laught at it. The game could be played in both ways if you wanted.
But no, we have to bend over to the wishes of his asian overlord and accept everything he does? Yeah right.
He call some of us even "maniacs". FFS

You realize the term Maniac is really just another term similar to Hardcore which also equally negative and cynical implications in the right context?

 

[HeavyLobster]

He call some of us even "maniacs". FFS

To be perfectly fair, we really are maniacs. I literally just stayed up all night so I could be one of the first people to witness the return of a character everyone already knew was going to be in the game.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Proof is that no one complained in the melee times because everyone was satisfied with it. Brawl came and divided the community like never before. It was a needless change, and if some liked it, good for them, but they liked a game that divided this community, unlike melee which unified it.

And obvs we are more 64 and melee fans than "smash" fans. You cannot get something and shove it into someone´s trhoat because it has a brand name. The product needs to be ON PAR or better in comparison with previous installments. Brawl took such a twist it was unbearable by a lot of people.

and this:


When "casuals" complained about melee not being the experience they liked the most?. You are talking like if melee was an unplayable atrocity in comparison with the "real" casual deal called brawl. Guess what? everyone , EVERYONE, started playing melee casually and had a good laught at it. The game could be played in both ways if you wanted.
But no, we have to bend over to the wishes of this asian overlord and accept everything he does? Yeah right.
He call some of us even "maniacs". FFS

You're being kind of racist there, but everywhere else, you have a point that I've been thinking all along.

 

[pizzapie7]

calling an asian man asian counts as racist these days?

 

[Saikyoshi]

calling an asian man asian counts as racist these days?

It just looked to me when I read it like he was trying to claim it was relevant to his point.

 

[Hydde]

Not really
But im mad at him anyways for his stubborness. I hate stubbron people with passion.

 

[Xiaphas]

I dont care if it is not a melee, well, at this point we all now it will not be.... in fact smash under sakurai will NEVER return to the melee physics.... but at least what i would like is for smashU to not be the campy snorefest that Brawl was.

If it can improve on it and be exiciting in its own way, then so be it...we all will play it.

If it is NOT exicting in the eyes of many.. ill will turn into Brawl 2.0, a game that will not last.

I'm optimistic. Just compare these 2 videos.

Brawl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kL_lyhoShM

Smash 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNJA7FzRNFE

Luckily, there is Mario gameplay in both cases. Even though this is still footage from the demo, it's already much more exciting.

I know someone is going to pop in and mention Project M, but what do you honestly see as the lifespan for Project M after Smash 4 comes out.

 

[Hydde]

To be perfectly fair, we really are maniacs. I literally just stayed up all night so I could be one of the first people to witness the return of a character everyone already knew was going to be in the game.

I know we are all "maniacs" in own our ways... but the way he talked about those "maniacs" was in not a positive way.
One thing is to say "hey those guys are maniac players, they are so skilled and so pro, i want to more of that dedication in my game"
and another is "those maniacs twisted my game and did horrid things with it , no way ill please them"

IM pretty sure he stands around the 2nd example.

 

[DraginHikari]

I know we are all "maniacs" in own our ways... but the way he talked about those "maniacs" was in not a positive way.
One thing is to say "hey those guys are maniac players, they are so skilled and so pro, i want to more of that dedication in my game"
and another is "those maniacs twisted my game and did horrid things with it , no way ill please them"

IM pretty sure he stands around the 2nd example.

I'm pretty sure you making those statements sound a lot more hostile then what is actually being said there.

 

[Dinoman96]

Doesn't "maniac" actually mean "hardcore" or "dedicated" in the Japanese language? That's what I've heard several people say. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a mistranslation/misunderstanding.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Are we actually going to discuss the competitive viability of this game or just sit around complaining? It looks to me as though double jumps go higher in Smash 4 than they did in previous games. Discuss what this means for competitive play.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

We are currently working on something as we speak, and hope to have it up soon. All I shall say is that it'll be strictly monitored.

YES!!!! I DID IT!

THAT'S ALL I WANTED!

Yes, and there are many threads for the same thing anyhow. Art this, leak that, roster speculation this, Amiibo that.

You're not trying to make the forums a better place. You are trying to force the people you insult in every other thread into a corner out of spite. It is for that reason that I would probably be more accepting of this thread's existence if it was made by someone who actually gives two ****s about competitive play instead of some guy who hates it.

I'm amazed at how you can get so upset from this... but then again this is Smashboards.

I don't care if you all want to talk competitive, I don't hate competitive Smash. Just the vocal minority leaves a bad taste in my mouth and it started with the constant ripping apart of Brawl.

If you think this GENERAL Smash Wii U sub forum needs to be cluttered with variants of the same thread daily, then that's your problem. It's all the same **** that doesn't deserve to have a new thread.

I can't help but laugh at you assuming I'm trying to ostracize the competitive community on a competitive based website.

All I'm saying is sure Smashboards was created around competitive Melee play, but it's so much more than that now.
It's a GENERAL hub where people from all over come to get their Smash Bros. news.

So forgive me for looking out for the people who come here that actually want to discuss Amiibo, or pricing, or possible release dates, but not being able to find those threads without scrolling over countless "Smash 4 will suck competitively because..." threads.

So if you want to play the victim in this scenario go right ahead.
If you want to think in your sick little mind that I did this to alienated the majority of this website than go ahead.
With that logic all the people who want to talk characters are alienated. All the people that want to talk stages are alienated.
If you can't see the common sense in pooling all of these discussions into one topic, then you're insane.
Because it's the same stuff that doesn't deserve a new thread.
If it was the pic of the day getting a new thread everyday you would be complaining and say "why not do the sensible thing and pool it all into a single thread?"
But for this case you take it as a personal attack on the competitive community.

Absolutely hilarious.

I know that you're sick of all the "glass half empty" types but personally I'm just as sick of all the "glass half full" types who try to reduce every discussion to "It'll be fun anyway so who cares" as if fun is some objective quality that is the same for everyone.

You don't see me making a "The official "This game will be fun, who cares about the rest" smash 4 thread" thread, do you?

Reading your posts has become increasingly annoying these past few weeks but this "official" (official by what standards? the standards of a guy who hates the subject matter of the thread? sod off) thread really takes the biscuit.

You're the first person I've see who is actually getting mad at people for being positive.
Who hurt you?

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

The one thing that really irks me though is characters surviving for so long. That gets on my nerves quite a bit. I'm not sure if it's due to attacks generally being weaker, the Stale Move Negation mechanic, the death zones being wider, or all of the above. It frustrates me when I see characters surviving a Smash Attack when they're around 130%.

I am in complete agreeance with this. It is most likely due to larger blast zones though. Out of all of the things that I have seen from Smash 4 thus far, this is probably the only thing that is somewhat disappointing to me.

However, unlike other problems? This is something that the community can fix without resorting to hacks. By lowering the stock count from 4 to 3, and picking stages in which the blast zones are closer to the stage.