The Official Chain-Ace Top 10 Best Fighting Games of All Time

[Pas]

I'm interested to know, how was Amy broken? I don't take fighting games seriously at all but the ways in which a character can be declared 'broken' interests me. Infinite combos and glitch exploits and such.

 

[Psychoace]

I'm interested to know, how was Amy broken? I don't take fighting games seriously at all but the ways in which a character can be declared 'broken' interests me. Infinite combos and glitch exploits and such.

She isn't too great long ranged characters can keep her at bay.

She does have Speed. Good lows. Safe mids. Good combo damage. Good wakes. And auto parries for good measure.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

This.

Button mashing in MvC2 nets you chained Hyper Viper Beams.

Button mashing in SC nets you at most a rudimentary 3-hit combo and a quick death.

Mother of God, I have my work cut out for me. Let me just say the following based on what I saw at Impact Clash.
1. I watched the Soulcalibur IV tournament. Someone won a match by mashing the B button nonstop. He was cheered for as "revolutionary." I had to leave to avoid peeing myself from laughing.
2. I watched the Marvel tournament as well. I saw someone beat MSP with Juggernaut, Hulk, and Colossus by playing strategically and timing his strikes with jaw-dropping precision. As for the AHVB loop, if it's so easy, let's see you do it.

RE: that Tekken fanboy who says Virtua Fighter sucks
Tekken is good. Virtua Fighter is better. From a technical standpoint, Virtua Fighter is one of the most accomplished games ever. I don't think that Tekken has its own exhibit at the Smithsonian Museum praising its mastery of human programming, and I don't think one will be made to praise its slow, choppy, boring gameplay.

 

[The Executive]

1. I watched the Soulcalibur IV tournament. Someone won a match by mashing the B button nonstop. He was cheered for as "revolutionary." I had to leave to avoid peeing myself from laughing.
2. I watched the Marvel tournament as well. I saw someone beat MSP with Juggernaut, Hulk, and Colossus by playing strategically and timing his strikes with jaw-dropping precision. As for the AHVB loop, if it's so easy, let's see you do it.

Obviously, the people in the MvC2 tournament were more accomplished than than ones playing SCIV. If you "win" a tournament by spamming B moves (see noob Yunsung players) then there obviously wasn't anyone with any level of skill present.

 

[derek.haines]

Obviously, the people in the MvC2 tournament were more accomplished than than ones playing SCIV. If you "win" a tournament by spamming B moves (see noob Yunsung players) then there obviously wasn't anyone with any level of skill present.

Quoted for truth.

Every fighting game is going to be subject to button-mashing on some level. I played Smash Bros. Melee for 6 years regularly and semi-competitively, and I still find myself mashing "A" from time to time when things get hectic. A good player should be able to rout a button masher any day of the week.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

1. I watched the Soulcalibur IV tournament. Someone won a match by mashing the B button nonstop. He was cheered for as "revolutionary." I had to leave to avoid peeing myself from laughing.

I hate that. Sadly, it's true. I saw the same for Lili with Dark Ressurection, although he did get beat after a while.

2. I watched the Marvel tournament as well. I saw someone beat MSP with Juggernaut, Hulk, and Colossus by playing strategically and timing his strikes with jaw-dropping precision. As for the AHVB loop, if it's so easy, let's see you do it.

This. I'm not the most skilled player, but even I know that there is no absolute truth in spamming, although some characters may be easier to abuse than others, it does not guarantee win against a person using skill. Besides, spammers have no real skill to adapt to the game.

RE: that Tekken fanboy who says Virtua Fighter sucks
Tekken is good. Virtua Fighter is better.

Quoted for the ****ing truth. As far as 3D fighter go, my favorite is definitely Virtua Fighter 4. 5 is great too.

I don't think that Tekken has its own exhibit at the Smithsonian Museum praising its mastery of human programming

Virtue Fighter really has that? Awesome.

 

[dawgbowl]

I'm posting my top 10... because I feel like it.

10. Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram
9. Powerstone 2
8. MvC2
7. KOF 11
6. Brawl/Melee/N64
5. Samurai Showdown 5
4. Soul Calibur
3. Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike (I'm not good but I highly respect it)
2. Street Fighter 2
1. Capcom Vs SNK 1 (2 is good, I just felt like something was missing...)

respect.

 

[QED]

The term "best" is sooooo ambiguous. It's relative to the person creating the list. People create list depending on what characteristic they value the most.

For example, people who consider games that were revolutionary as a reason for listing might add things like Virtua Fighter, Street Fighter, Smash Bros. and Mortal Kombat. For some it might be the competitive nature where technicality is the key to the best games (MvC2, Melee, etc.). And others such as casuals may like Soul Calibur, Brawl and such. Other factors may include race, age, etc. (Caz middle school and high school kids do love bouncing boobs. gogo doa.)

So IMO aruging over "best" games without specifying categories... doesn't really get anywhere. Not telling you guys to stop debating, but it would be nice if you guys stop flaming each other because you prioritize different things.

Also this is my opinion: did imbalance ever stop a game from being fun/competitive? I don't really think so. All fighting games have tiers... unless the game has only one playable character. And now that would be boring wouldn't it? ;p I believe all games do have overused chars/teams in competitive play.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

That Top 10 is the most inaccurate, pile of rabbit vomit ever...how in the world did ShaqFu get up there...and seriously, how is SSBM at #1, and not Street Fighter II: WW?

What huge impact to the fighting game genre did SSBM do during it's time, that SFII:WW didn't completely and utterly destroy out of the water...infact what other fighting game has ever achieved the lvl of popularity/competitive gaming that SFII did during it's time period?

Oh yeah...NONE, so really, how could SFII not be up there...but you have things like DBZ:Budokai3, and MK:Trilogy making the frey??? This is the most stupid Top 10 I've ever seen for a long time, because if you are going to rank a Top 10, you rank upon what impact it has made to the gaming world. With that said, this would be my list of Top 6...since I can't think of Top 10 atm...

#6 Mortal Kombat II - Some of you maybe going wtf?! However, if you were not there during the time it was released, then obviously you wouldn't know. At it's peak, it was the most played fighting game, even absolutely trumping over Capcom's Super Street Fighter II in numbers and fame. This game recieved mile stones of criticism from parents/news and what not due to it's extremely high epic gore. Although, it's gameplay was not over the top strategical and it became a Mileena vs Jax at high competitive lvls, you cannot deny the impact that MKII made in the gaming world.

#5 Virtua Fighter II - "Not Virtua Fighter IV?!" Seriously, did VF:4 make headlines like VF:2 did during it's time of release? Not even close, VF:2 was arguably the most popular and most broad VF game in existence. Unlike today where VF4 and VF5 are mainly only played heavily in Japan. VF2 was played all over the place and really pushed the 3-D fighting game genre to a whole new wave of fame. This VF game was the most heavily played VF game on the competitive side on a global scale then any other VF game. Lol at Senbun punches, however you cannot deny the impact it made to 3-D fighters and to the fighting game world.

#4 Soul Calibur I - No, not II, definitely not III, and yes, not even IV. Simply put, SCIV was the greatest SC game ever concieved, with a few slight patches, this game became the greatest 3-D Sword fighting game. SC1 was arguably one of the biggest reasons why the DC actually sold remotely well during it's early days of it's so short lifespan (great system, too many haters, that's all). At one point and time, this was THE game to play.

#3 Tekken Tag Tournament - VF4 maybe more strategical, however TekkenTag had very good depth, PLUS it did what VF4 couldn't do, it garnered world-wide popularity, and was played competitively all over the world. TTT to this day, I have never, ever seen another 3-D fighting game touch the lvl of hype/competition/fame that this game garnered during it's time. It completely annihilated competition at the arcades, because with the option to allow 2 players, and the biggest roster at the time in Tekken history, it was heavily played, and with the slight upgrades from T3. This was the fighting game of it's time, no questions asked, no other fighting game was as popular as TTT during it's reign in the early 2000 era.

#2 King of Fighters - Say what you will, however give this game it's credit, sure it didn't receive super high praise here in the USA. However, go out of the USA, and you'll notice that King of Fighters is the most heavily played fighting game of all time. You go to Japan...tons of KoF fighting games, you go to Hong Kong...tons of KoF fighting games, you go to Europe...ton's of KoF fighting games. Only in the US is it not super popular, yet the entire world loves this game. This is arguably the most popular fighting game and most competitively played fighting game (overall) franchise of all time...so how can it not be #2, ask me that?

#1 Street Fighter II - Really, I'd "love" to see someone argue this seriously, however if you were not there during 1991, then please, sit down and listen okay? Before 1991, the arcade industry was on the verge of bankruptcy, and 2-D side scroll games where the dominant normal. However, when Capcom released Street Fighter II: World Warriors to the world in 1991, this completely shifted the power/popularity/dominance of a genre for many years to come. SFII:WW made Capcom the #1 company for many years to come, it completely shifted the fame/popularity of the fighting game genre as the #1 genre for many years to come.

It's popularity was so high, that during it's release, arcades completely came out of bankruptcy and stored them back into the dominant form, and even eclipsing it's past. Just how addicting and completely new was SFII? You had people who quit there jobs just to play SFII more, you had people quitting school just to play SFII, you had people going into divorces just to play SFII.

Look at the combos, the terms such as "cheap", "dishonorable", and the term "scrub" where all derived with the arrival of Street Fighter II : World Warriors. Look at all of the Ryu and Ken wannabe's from other fighting games that spawned after it...your telling me Liu Kang, or Akira don't have some close resemblance or personality of that of Ryu? Your telling me that Killer Instinct didn't take Jago's Uppercut, or AoF Ryo's Uppercut, and Toshinden's Eiji's Sword uppercut didn't bear a super close resemblance to Ryu/Ken's Shoryuken?

SFII:WW brought in the input commands to do moves (they did it in SF1, but it was atrocious), and new unique things as well, such as the charge moves, which would lead to one of the most powerful 2-D characters of all time, Guile. This game during it's hey day, it was nearly impossible to get to play, the lvl of competition was the highest ever! You didn't need to be in Los Angeles, or New York to get solid competition. So even if you where in a smaller city, you would still get decent competition, which is what made this game so popular.

Yet, this wasn't just a phenomenon within the US, but all over the world during it's release, so to put, it pushed arcades out of bankruptcy, it pushed Capcom to become the #1 gaming company for years to come, it made fighting games the #1 genre for the next multiple years, it made one of the biggest gigantic impacts in the gaming industry, not just in the fighting game genre, but within the gaming industry itself.

So really, please, how can you argue SFII not being #1 in the best fighting games of all time? Because quite frankly, SFII paved the road that all other fighting games are now walking on.

Ps: I didn't bother reading over this, so any grammar, sentence or what not errors, phooey to that.

 

[kr3wman]

Because all jumping uppercuts must resemble Ken/Ryu's shoryuken or Sagat's tiger uppercut.

Really.

EDIT : And I still have no one giving me proof that Third Strike is not the best fighting game ever. Saying you can win by randomly guessing when and where to parry is the same **** as saying MvC is a button-masher or that Super Turbo didn't age well.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

Third Strike would be good if not for the balance issues. Two words, gentlemen: thunder thighs.

 

[kr3wman]

Third Strike would be good if not for the balance issues. Two words, gentlemen: thunder thighs.

Ooooh boy. Third Strike is no where near as unbalanced as other fighting games. It's one of the only Street Fighters that rivals GG's balance.

Please.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

It could be less balanced, but Chun-Li and Yun do dominate. Akuma players here and there, but I mostly see Yun and Chun-Li players.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

Virtua Fighter really has that? Awesome.

Sure does. I believe it was referred to as the most accurate virtual portrayal of human movement to date. I believe it.


Re: 3S IS SO BALANCED
Are you...are you serious? Let's see...has there ever been an Evo tournament in which the champion was not playing Yun, Ken, or Chun-Li? No. Did it take the game almost a decade for someone other than Yun, Ken, or Chun-Li to win SBO? Yes. Anji wins in Accent Core, and he's the game's worst character. Try that with Sean. What's that? You can't? That's right. No one can. In 3S, you play top ten or have fun losing.

 

[kr3wman]

Sure does. I believe it was referred to as the most accurate virtual portrayal of human movement to date. I believe it.


Re: 3S IS SO BALANCED
Are you...are you serious? Let's see...has there ever been an Evo tournament in which the champion was not playing Yun, Ken, or Chun-Li? No. Did it take the game almost a decade for someone other than Yun, Ken, or Chun-Li to win SBO? Yes. Anji wins in Accent Core, and he's the game's worst character. Try that with Sean. What's that? You can't? That's right. No one can. In 3S, you play top ten or have fun losing.

Because EVO and SBO are 100% of tournaments.

Just because people dedicate themselves to characters and give them enough depth so that they can win tournaments and you still say that no matter what Chun , Yun and Ken will always win is a ****ing disgrace. They worked hard to give other people reasons to play those characters.

If I said Hayao sucks *** because he doesn't win tournaments, I'll get my *** ****ing bashed all the way to next week because everyone knows he's better than me. If I said Sugiyama is bad and always lose because he mains Necro it's a ****ing joke.

It's the same thing if I said Chudat should use Fox instead of his ICs in Melee before he proved they were good enough. It's the same thing for people that mained low-tiers characters in fighting games. They work hard to win, and you just come here and say they're just a joke (Excepted GG players, oh wow it's such a balanced game it's sooo good!...****ing bull****)

Chun, Yun and Ken do not win all of the tournaments 100% of time. Get your facts straight.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Wow.

On a lighter note, for MvC, does anybody try and dedicate themselves for favorite Marvel or Capcom characters, regardless of tourney position? I tried Dr. Doom, my favorite comic book character of all-time, and he's good but didn't really do anything for me. They made him too weak (keep in mind I'm a Fantastic Four fanboy). I got good with my favorite X-Men character Cyclops. It's just a coincidence he's high-tier, I swear. So, if The Thing or Daredevil made it in a next MvC, even if they're unanimously voted the worst characters in any fighting game ever, I would still try to main one of them. Anyone else?

 

[The Executive]

Wow.

On a lighter note, for MvC, does anybody try and dedicate themselves for favorite Marvel or Capcom characters, regardless of tourney position? I tried Dr. Doom, my favorite comic book character of all-time, and he's good but didn't really do anything for me. They made him too weak (keep in mind I'm a Fantastic Four fanboy). I got good with my favorite X-Men character Cyclops. It's just a coincidence he's high-tier, I swear. So, if The Thing or Daredevil made it in a next MvC, even if they're unanimously voted the worst characters in any fighting game ever, I would still try to main one of them. Anyone else?

I play T. Bonne, Cable, and the cactus thing Amingo. That's about it.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

My team is Cyclops, Cable, and Captain Commando. I play Marvel semi-seriously so I have to have a top-tier team, but this team is a bit of my own flavor. Most people don't use it because it's one of the most defensive teams imaginable, and in a game that rewards aggression, defense isn't as good of an option. I try to make it work though.

 

[kr3wman]

I don't have MvC T_T

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Tron Bonne, Cyclops, and Sentinel is usually my team. Sometimes I throw in Ice-Man or Strider.

 

[Grunt]

I'm terrible at Marvel, but Vulcan is pretty good.
he uses Ironman in any team no matter what.
LOOOOL

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Melee is the best thats for shure. But brawl should have been on there somewhere. (behind melee of course)

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

EDIT : And I still have no one giving me proof that Third Strike is not the best fighting game ever. Saying you can win by randomly guessing when and where to parry is the same **** as saying MvC is a button-masher or that Super Turbo didn't age well.

3S is not the best fighting game of all time, in fact, 3S is not even the BEST Street Fighter game of all time, that either goes to Hyper Fighting or Super Turbo. Parry excludes so much things in SFIII, that your forced to having to RUSHDOWN with every single character, regardless of whom you pick.

Ever seen all the high/low, whiffed attacks, throws that result even at the highest lvls of 3S? Just watch the Daigo vs Valle match up and you'll see 2039482309480923890 Parry Option Selects that happen within that match up.

Character's like Ryu can't even utilize their fireball from full screen, due to parry, completely negating them, and forcing fireball characters to having to rushdown. This to the untrained eye may seem "good" but this actually limits characters who would have played to their strengths. How much better do you think Remy would be if his LOV's didn't get parried all the time?

Please, let's not go into this, even the BEST 3S players say the game is very random at the highest lvls.

Also, 3S is not the most balanced SF of all time...how do people make such claims? In Hyper Fighting, everyone is viable tournament wise, besides Bison, and in ST, only T. Hawk and Cammy really have disadvantages, while everyone else can work effectively well. In 3S, Chun, and Yun, then Ken, and to a much lesser extent, Makoto completely run the show, name me multiple tournaments where these characters, especially Chun and Yun don't dominate the Top 8.

Sure SBO has some crazy results for 3S, however they are also 3 vs 3, and 1-time matches which can result in very different and un varied results, which is why you can sometimes see a Necro within the Top 8. However do Best out of 3 Match ups and Solo, and it'll be the same of Chun's/Yun's/Ken's and a few select Makoto's placing in the Top 8.

Yun is only "difficult" to learn when you are trying to pick up the options for landing Genei-Jin and making it hit consistently, however once you learn that, he is not very difficult to play as, you can either runaway and whiff attacks to build meter, then Genei-Jin and it's ggpo to the other player, or else land a few strings and build meter, and Genei-Jin again...which isn't very difficult.

Chunli is the absolute most newbie friendly character in 3S, and quite frankly is one of the best, and last I remember from the last Tier Listing (which I saw earlier this year) is now considered the best overall character, even edging out Yun now. S.fp, c.mkxxSAII are not difficult to do.

Also kr3wman, your notion about Hayao is very off, Hayao himself plays a great game, however that doesn't mean that Hugo is now going to shoot up in the Tier List, or that it's balanced because Hayao can play Hugo great, while 99% of all other Hugo players can't achieve the same lvl of success. It's so obvious from the Tournament results of 3S, not just SBO or Evo, look at it from all over the place, and you'll notice that any 3S tournament that has reasonably solid competition, it's dominated by Chun's, Yun's, some Ken's and maybe Makoto for the most part in the Top 8.

Lastly, how can it be in the Top 10 seriously, 3S didn't even get super popular here in the States until what...2004 after Daigo parried Wong in Evo2k4. Before then, how many of you where serious in love with this game and trying to play it competitively? Pre-Evo2k4, I heard almost nobody here talking about 3S, yet Post-Evo2k4, you had a flood of talk about it...coincidence?

When it was released in the late 90's, almost nobody cared for it anymore, and it definitely didn't do anything so grand on impacting the gaming world that the previous ones I stated in my Top 8 didn't do, but 10x more.

I would consider MvC2 within the Top 15, because although it's a spectacular fighting game with a gigantic learning curve, it's lvl of impact when it was released was only slightly above mediocre, and TekkenTag came out at exactly the same time as MvC2, however it garnered way more hype, fame, and competition (not saying MvC2 wasn't a bad game because it is still an excellent fighting game to this day, however only the US and Canada really play MvC2).

 

[Deathcarter]

Melee is the best thats for shure. But brawl should have been on there somewhere. (behind melee of course)

Melee is not the best. It is debatable whether or not it should be in the top 10.

Brawl, although fun, is so uncompetetive, that it does not even make the top 100. Hell, it should be behind Naruto: Clash of Ninja and Shaq Fu.

 

[kr3wman]

3S is not the best fighting game of all time, in fact, 3S is not even the BEST Street Fighter game of all time, that either goes to Hyper Fighting or Super Turbo. Parry excludes so much things in SFIII, that your forced to having to RUSHDOWN with every single character, regardless of whom you pick.

Ever seen all the high/low, whiffed attacks, throws that result even at the highest lvls of 3S? Just watch the Daigo vs Valle match up and you'll see 2039482309480923890 Parry Option Selects that happen within that match up.

Character's like Ryu can't even utilize their fireball from full screen, due to parry, completely negating them, and forcing fireball characters to having to rushdown. This to the untrained eye may seem "good" but this actually limits characters who would have played to their strengths. How much better do you think Remy would be if his LOV's didn't get parried all the time?

Please, let's not go into this, even the BEST 3S players say the game is very random at the highest lvls.

Also, 3S is not the most balanced SF of all time...how do people make such claims? In Hyper Fighting, everyone is viable tournament wise, besides Bison, and in ST, only T. Hawk and Cammy really have disadvantages, while everyone else can work effectively well. In 3S, Chun, and Yun, then Ken, and to a much lesser extent, Makoto completely run the show, name me multiple tournaments where these characters, especially Chun and Yun don't dominate the Top 8.

Sure SBO has some crazy results for 3S, however they are also 3 vs 3, and 1-time matches which can result in very different and un varied results, which is why you can sometimes see a Necro within the Top 8. However do Best out of 3 Match ups and Solo, and it'll be the same of Chun's/Yun's/Ken's and a few select Makoto's placing in the Top 8.

Yun is only "difficult" to learn when you are trying to pick up the options for landing Genei-Jin and making it hit consistently, however once you learn that, he is not very difficult to play as, you can either runaway and whiff attacks to build meter, then Genei-Jin and it's ggpo to the other player, or else land a few strings and build meter, and Genei-Jin again...which isn't very difficult.

Chunli is the absolute most newbie friendly character in 3S, and quite frankly is one of the best, and last I remember from the last Tier Listing (which I saw earlier this year) is now considered the best overall character, even edging out Yun now. S.fp, c.mkxxSAII are not difficult to do.

Also kr3wman, your notion about Hayao is very off, Hayao himself plays a great game, however that doesn't mean that Hugo is now going to shoot up in the Tier List, or that it's balanced because Hayao can play Hugo great, while 99% of all other Hugo players can't achieve the same lvl of success. It's so obvious from the Tournament results of 3S, not just SBO or Evo, look at it from all over the place, and you'll notice that any 3S tournament that has reasonably solid competition, it's dominated by Chun's, Yun's, some Ken's and maybe Makoto for the most part in the Top 8.

Lastly, how can it be in the Top 10 seriously, 3S didn't even get super popular here in the States until what...2004 after Daigo parried Wong in Evo2k4. Before then, how many of you where serious in love with this game and trying to play it competitively? Pre-Evo2k4, I heard almost nobody here talking about 3S, yet Post-Evo2k4, you had a flood of talk about it...coincidence?

When it was released in the late 90's, almost nobody cared for it anymore, and it definitely didn't do anything so grand on impacting the gaming world that the previous ones I stated in my Top 8 didn't do, but 10x more.

I would consider MvC2 within the Top 15, because although it's a spectacular fighting game with a gigantic learning curve, it's lvl of impact when it was released was only slightly above mediocre, and TekkenTag came out at exactly the same time as MvC2, however it garnered way more hype, fame, and competition (not saying MvC2 wasn't a bad game because it is still an excellent fighting game to this day, however only the US and Canada really play MvC2).

What's the point of your post again, I think I lost it somewhere...

Would you kindly edit that out so that it makes sense?

You take everything out of context, you change around meaning of phrases to your liking and your choice of good fighting games is still poor to me.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

What's the point of your post again, I think I lost it somewhere...

Would you kindly edit that out so that it makes sense?

You take everything out of context, you change around meaning of phrases to your liking and your choice of good fighting games is still poor to me.

Way to dodge the issue. He proved you wrong and you know it, so you played the "Pssh, you just blow" card. Too bad that card went out of print years ago. I think this is the part where you stop talking.

RE: ST
A recent revision of ST's tier list revealed that the new bottom tier doesn't have Hawk on it anymore. Hawk was found to have some ridiculous exploitable tricks that bumped him from D-tier to B-tier, and his old version is now A-list. The bottom tier now is, as I recall, Cammy, Fei-Long, and Zangief, although even those three(especially the Giefster) can win at high level. ST is one of the most balanced fighting games ever. I've seen O. Sagat lose to Cammy, Claw lose to Fei-Long, and Balrog get thrashed by Zangief. Best thing about ST, though...it never gets old. Fifteen years later the game still brings the thunda. How many fighting games can make that claim?

 

[The Executive]

Melee is not the best. It is debatable whether or not it should be in the top 10.

Brawl, although fun, is so uncompetetive, that it does not even make the top 100. Hell, it should be behind Naruto: Clash of Ninja and Shaq Fu.

You cannot group the entire Clash of Ninja series with something as horrendous as Shaq Fu. Maybe CoN 1 and 2, but Gekitou Ninja Taisen 4 is a halfway decent fighting game.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

What's the point of your post again, I think I lost it somewhere...

Would you kindly edit that out so that it makes sense?

You take everything out of context, you change around meaning of phrases to your liking and your choice of good fighting games is still poor to me.

Everyone seems to understand what I've posted besides you. However, you wanted an answer as to why 3S is not Best, and I just explained to you why.

 

[kr3wman]

Everyone seems to understand what I've posted besides you. However, you wanted an answer as to why 3S is not Best, and I just explained to you why.

The only point in your post I see that actually has anything to do with that is the fact that 3S wasn't popular in the US after '04, or it didn't have the impact other fighters had.

So because no one played it at first it's bad? Because it didn't ''revolutionize'' an industry that, according to you, was ''revolutionized'' already so much no one would care for new games, and because it doesn't deserve all the attention it has now? 3S, even if it's tournaments features prominently 3 different characters, has a huge amount of depth for all of them. I know this, you know this, everyone knows this. Even if this depth cannot be applied as effectively to characters like Sean, Q, 12 or Hugo, it still is enough so that with , enough of a margin, you can win if you are better, unlike most others.

Of course, same thing can be said about more ''balanced'' fighters out there, like GG or HF. I admit those have characters more balanced than 3S, but it's not the same balance. In those games, winning with a mid tier or a low tier isn't the same thing as winning with a low tier in Melee or 3S. Because of the amount of challenge to go through the character's depth and find new ways to apply them to win, 3S spawned tons of dedicated players that want to find new setups, mixups and traps for all of the cast because of that depth, not because they knew they could win because the game was already ''balanced''.

And, generally, making a list based solely on impact is never a good thing. If I made a list of my top ten Hockey players, I wouldn't put Jacque Plante in that list because he was the guy who popularized the goalie mask, I'm gonna put him there because he was a great goalie.

Way to dodge the issue. He proved you wrong and you know it, so you played the "Pssh, you just blow" card. Too bad that card went out of print years ago. I think this is the part where you stop talking.

I proved you wrong and yet, you didn't stop talking. I edited that last post to take out all the insults I had for such a pitiful person you are, but it seems you deserved them.

 

[Symphony X]

Did someone seriously call MvC2 "balanced"? The same MvC2 where Magneto, Storm, Cable, and Sentinel trash 98% of all other characters?

Seriously. Pretty much the most broken fighting game out there in terms of characters. I love it all the same though.

I get that it's a joke. (I hope) But really. Coming from a huge fighting fan, it's not funny. Although I'm glad to see Budokai 3 there. I love that game so much. I guess I'll start the trend of everybody else putting there 10 favorites. Actually, I'm lazy. I'll just say that most of my favorites are Anime fighting games, 'cause I'm lame like that.

 

[QED]

Has imbalance ever deterred a game from being competitive or really popular? Not that I remember.

A large amount of games have kept competition throughout many years despite the imbalance. Then there must be some great characteristic(s) in the gameplay that overwhelmed the imbalance, no?

 

[Pas]

I'm completely with Symphony X in my love of Dragonball Z Budokai 3 and anime fighters in general; they're absolutely hilarious when you're a little bit baked.

I mean, come on, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPh7iEOYyvw will always be funny, regardless of your state of mind.


Does anyone anywhere play that professionaly? It'd be just like watching actual Dragonball Z...

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

~snip~

Did you read even bother reading my comments on why Parry sh*tted up the gameplay of Street Fighter III? Or did you just simply try to pass that up and simply talked about Post-Evo2k4?

This is exactly the comments that I would have expected from 3S worshipers. Let me explain to you in great detail...3S in comparison to previous SF games, is nowhere NEAR AS DEEP. Even a game such as CvS2 is a more deeper fighting game then 3S. The reason why 3S is even popular was due mostly to what happened at Evo2k4 here in the US, before that, ONLY Japan was seriously playing this game, period.

I'm wondering also what in blazes are you talking about pertaining to 3S balance? English please? Because I'm quite thrown off here, are you saying that 3S has depth because you have to find more ways to "win" with a character than in another more balanced game like SFII:HF? If so, then you have completely lost it, because that's not "deep" mind you, that's just the fact that the character is that trashy due to the fact that the player him/herself has to play 5x as hard to win, nothing more.

That's like saying when I was playing T5 5.0, and I was playing Jin going up against Steve's, that I had to find all the "intricacies" to Jin's gameplay to win, yet whatever I could do, Steve could do 10x Better, however this makes the gameplay "deep" because I have to work twice as hard with Jin. If this is what your implying, than no offense, but that's just ridiculous. That didn't make playing Tekken 5 better, and that sure didn't make 3S better when your playing Hugo.

Some characters are just simply bad, however reasons why alot of characters do not do well in 3S is because the Universal Option of Parry hinders them greatly, this along with how they where built drops them down even more. Q is not that great of a character, however with the addition of Parry, he is made even more worse, Twelve is not that great of a character as well, however he is made even more worse with the addition of Parry. Even Hugo is not that great of a character, and again, made more worse with the option of Parry.

Look at Zangief from SFII and look at Hugo from 2I/3S, and when both these grapplers where to be able to knock someone down, see which character has more options when in this situation within their respective fighting game. If you see Hugo, then obviously you don't know what your talking about anymore. However, simple reason why it's Zangief...NO PARRY.

So honestly, please, show me then, what makes 3S so special from previous SF games that did it on a much deeper, more balanced and overall 10x better scale? Call it what you will, but 3S's rise to fame was Post-Evo2k4, it had nothing to do with how "great" of a game engine 3S was, because it never was. Everyone saw this and went "OMgosh..Daigo woeruoierjwoiemr wtf parried SAII and pawned him?!"

Then you had a flood of players wanting to play this game, after that, for many this was either their first SF game, or else, it was the ONLY SF game they took seriously, and they regarded it as being the most "strategical and the most "deep", however anyone who had prior knowledge Pre-SFIII would have known better.

If you want to break the games down by what they brought to the playing field as in depth, and overall game engine...then my goodness, 3S still won't even be within the Top 10 any how.

It's tiresome to debate with 3S fanatics because they will worship their game to ground, even though it's nowhere near as grand as they claim it to be. 3S will never ever be Top 10 period, no matter which form of Top 10 we may use (2nd Impact was the BEST SFIII game of all time imo, way more stronger characters). However, since you are asking for a Top 10 from a game engine perspective, then I will give you one, but I will post that later, since I am tired.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

Couldn't parry also in theory HELP the worse characters? Since now if you have a really slow character he could try to parry a faster character's attacks in order to gain an opening.

Of course, I bareley play Street Fighter, so you can take my words with a grain of salt.

 

[Deathcarter]

You cannot group the entire Clash of Ninja series with something as horrendous as Shaq Fu. Maybe CoN 1 and 2, but Gekitou Ninja Taisen 4 is a halfway decent fighting game.

To be frank, the Gamecube Naruto fighting series sucks. Though it is due primarily to that broken guard system which eclipses Brawl's defensive system. I'm not sure any game in the series can be called halfway decent, but I will agree that lumping it in with Shaq Fu was stupid. Not sure if Brawl can or cannot be lumped in with Shaq Fu though.

 

[notftomearth7]

1. Soul Calibur 4
2. Super Smash Bros Brawl
3. Super Smash Bros Melee
4. Tekken Tag Tournament
5. Street Fighter
6. Mortal Kombat Armageddon
7. Original Mortal Combat
8. Urban Champion
9. Super Smash Brothers
10. Beast wars.

 

[Red Exodus]

As much as I like Melee I can't say it's the best fighting game with a straight face and this list is missing fighting games like KOF, GG, SC, and VF.

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

Couldn't parry also in theory HELP the worse characters? Since now if you have a really slow character he could try to parry a faster character's attacks in order to gain an opening.

It doesn't help them anymore then it helps out the best characters in the game. Someone like Chunli has way better options then someone like Necro when it comes to landing damage, so parry does not help him out anymore then Chunli. In actuality, Chunli would benefit even greater from it, due to fact, that she has much safer options, more powerful options, and moves least likely to get parried.

However, really, we should stop talking about 3S, this game is fun, it can be competitive, but it isn't the Top 10 Best Fighting Games of All Time.

I cannot think of a Top 10, but I can think of Top 7, this is in no particular order, however these games have shown to have a solid game engine to back up their claims to being placed as within the Top 10.

Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting, Super Street Fighter II Turbo, Virtua Fighter 4 : Evo, Guilty Gear XX, King of Fighters 98, TekkenTagTournament, and Soul Calibur 1 come to instantly to my mind, however beyond that, I really have to think incredibly hard.

I am thinking seriously of putting Marvel vs Capcom 2 in the frey as well, due to it's unique gameplay options and incredibly sharp learning curve. However, it is also unfair since there are some fighting games that are deemed good that I was never able to play (those that never made it big here in the US), so it's quite actually unfair as well.

 

[Drecker]

This list made me cringe. No Guilty Gears, no 3S, no ST, sad panda.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

I had my college workshop canceled today, and at school one of my friends was playing SSF2T on MAME. A ****-load better than I remembered. I literally picked up the SNES copy when I said that earlier. Yeah, why I played Guile all those years is coming back to me. I absolutely hate the SNES version even more after playing the arcade. I still prefer others, still.