the new wario is a f***ing joke

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

lets laugh at this useless piece of **** character here

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

and lucario is BUFFED
LMFAO HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

"Wario likes to play tricks on his opponents and thus possesses several new tools to feint his foes. In addition to its obvious functions, Shoulder Bash can be cancelled into a crouch, as it could in the Wario Land series. After crouching, Wario will then slide, carrying over the momentum from his Shoulder Bash. Coupled with the ability to jump out of Shoulder Bash, this adds to the player's array of options."
http://projectmgame.com/en/characters/wario

 

[Shimesaba]

Gotta say it does make me sad to have the crouch out of side-B removed, I love the Wario Land games and that was a great reference (and I used it all the time). I can't imagine it was considered broken, either, he couldn't really attack during the slide...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

He's gotten progressively better since 2.0, and in the last version he was largely considered one of the best characters. He's been toned down a bit to make combos a more interactive, thought-provoking affair (instead of everything comboing into everything, it's -slightly- less flexible), but other than having to choose your combo options a bit better and not getting a free stock once a game with Waft (which is arguably a buff, since you get a powerful option for recovery or approach every minute now), he's pretty much the same character.

Oh, wait, there is also the Forward-B crouch slide change...It was much safer on shield than it needed to be (up to +12 frame advantage in some cases, apparently), and it gave him a fourth out in terms of a mix-up that already had three parts to it (Shoulder, Crouch, Grab, Jump). It was deemed overkill and unnecessary; he already has a ton of options for mitigating risk, and so requiring more commitment out of going for the Forward-B was a very good decision, IMO.

 

[\Apples]

I would rather the dash grab have been removed and then also remove the hitbox on the crouch slide, removing any frame advantage from being possible. I loved it as a mobility option and its light armor helped him so much in some MUs he really struggled in. Dash grab is kind of dumb anyways and IMO feels very out of place, despite the windup mechanic being also present in his Ftilt.

The other changes I agree with, but removing crouch slide? He just lost a lot of appeal.

 

[Bobz]

He's still great, but losing the crouch slide is a major bummer. Been crossing over people and avoiding killing my teammates with that for so long playing him now is rough.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

wario has never been good, he's always sucked ****. (ok, he was mid-tier in 2.5)
what kind of mystical nonexistant autocombos are people talking about? do some people always di into downthrow combos despite having 3 million years to react? are they incapable of diing away from dtilt and asdi-down-teching dsmash? are 2 upairs considered a superbroken infinite combo?
compare any of his stuff to pit or wolf or lucas or any top tier melee character (cept marth he sucks)

**** this character, im playing all lucario and wolf from now on.

this is your fault for being too good at smash and humble about making a ****ty character look good. **** you. <3

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Whether your posts are sarcastic or serious, I sure do get headaches reading them.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

The only thing I'd laugh at is this thread, because its absolutely ridiculous, but that would be rude, so I'll just say I'm disappointed. The fact that you find wario useless now only leads me to believe you don't understand this character. I'd suggest giving it more than a day, and having more of an argument than, "they removed side b crouch, wario = bad" to prove your point. Not exactly what you said, but thats the general idea I got from your posts.

 

[Bread-Butterer]

Going to have to agree. There was absolutely no reason to nerf this character even more. I stopped playing as him altogether after the last version's nerf because I was so frustrated that you would tamper with is already **** recovery.

Salt in the wound is buffing a character like Lucario, who was nearly devoid of any weaknesses (in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing)... but no, lets make him ****ing start the match with his charged special (Seriously?) and increase the knockback of his fair and uair so that he has two more viable kill moves. Here I was happily expecting him to get brought back down to earth in 3.0... Wow. No one can convince me that Lucario needed that buff. No one.

It's absolutely baffling. Do you guys communicate or is it just a matter of tweaking your characters as you see fit? I wouldn't even mind Wario's build if the rest of the characters in any way reflected the balance that's gone into his design.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Going to have to agree. There was absolutely no reason to nerf this character even more. I stopped playing as him altogether after the last version's nerf because I was so frustrated that you would tamper with is already **** recovery.

Salt in the wound is buffing a character like Lucario, who was nearly devoid of any weaknesses (in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing)... but no, lets make him ****ing start the match with his charged special (Seriously?) and increase the knockback of his fair and uair so that he has two more viable kill moves. Here I was happily expecting him to get brought back down to earth in 3.0... Wow. No one can convince me that Lucario needed that buff. No one.

It's absolutely baffling. Do you guys communicate or is it just a matter of tweaking your characters as you see fit? I wouldn't even mind Wario's build if the rest of the characters in any way reflected the balance that's gone into his design.

Wario had and still does have amazing stage control. In no way was a +12 on shield cancel necessary to his kit.

His recovery actually got better because of the more reliable use of waft to come back from deep instead of relying on his short and sort of lackluster upb.

Play as the character more before you jump to conclusions about stuff you clearly don't have experience with. Since you quit playing as him because of the range reduction on his side-B last version, it's pretty clear you don't understand the kind of power this fatty has.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm not going to continue to explain how his old Forward-B did -literally nothing- useful for recovery and how this one is at least marginally useful for recovery because of every single change made to it.

I'm not going to try to compare changelists, but Lucario was definitely lacking in the approach department in 2.6b (probably his weakest trait), which is what almost all of his new changes were there to help. I honestly see no problem with that.

 

[Bread-Butterer]

I'm not going to continue to explain how his old Forward-B did -literally nothing- useful for recovery and how this one is at least marginally useful for recovery because of every single change made to it.

I'm not going to try to compare changelists, but Lucario was definitely lacking in the approach department in 2.6b (probably his weakest trait), which is what almost all of his new changes were there to help. I honestly see no problem with that.

He can frame cancel almost all of his moves, including his dash attack (amazing approach option), grab you through your shield while he's airborne, teleport short distances with little start up lag, utilize his solid, deceptive grab game with great combo follow-ups, has good footspeed that allows him to rush down opponents, and has two viable projectile types at his disposal (one that takes up half the screen limiting your movement exponentially). Oh, and he doesn't even have to approach because he can hit your shield with projectiles to build up his special meter.

In other words: What?

 

[Bread-Butterer]

Wario had and still does have amazing stage control. In no way was a +12 on shield cancel necessary to his kit.

His recovery actually got better because of the more reliable use of waft to come back from deep instead of relying on his short and sort of lackluster upb.

Play as the character more before you jump to conclusions about stuff you clearly don't have experience with. Since you quit playing as him because of the range reduction on his side-B last version, it's pretty clear you don't understand the kind of power this fatty has.

I entered a tournament with Wario a couple of months ago and placed second behind Hammertime, who I was competitive with (one of, if not THE best Lucas players in the world). Since then I've switched to Charizard.

I've said it before, I like Wario's build. I think if other characters had a balanced design that fell in line with his, this game would be a lot better than it is right now.

More food for thought on his recovery. The lag time after landing from his side-B and up-B are ridiculous, especially when you consider how many characters can attack right out of their recoveries. Or.. more reasonably, most other character recoveries are ridiculously overpowered, and his is just normal.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I entered a tournament with Wario a couple of months ago and placed second behind Hammertime, who I was competitive with (one of, if not THE best Lucas players in the world). Since then I've switched to Charizard.

I've said it before, I like Wario's build. I think if other characters had a balanced design that fell in line with his, this game would be a lot better than it is right now.

More food for thought on his recovery. The lag time after landing from his side-B and up-B are ridiculous, especially when you consider how many characters can attack right out of their recoveries. Or.. more reasonably, most other character recoveries are ridiculously overpowered, and his is just normal.

I'm afraid I don't really understand then. You were saying that Wario got nerfed so bad he wasn't worth playing (Not those exact words, but that's the sentiment I got).

He was one of the most powerful characters in 2.6, I'd say he still is one of the most powerful characters, with or without insanely long recovery. I can sort of understand the complaints when people say he has a terrible recovery, but I still think that he's so good on stage that he needs a bad recovery in order to feel fair at all.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

All of Lucario's normal cancels require you to hit a shield or a body, which means that dashdancing, wavedash back, etc., stuffs pretty much all of that, making it somewhat unsafe if he swings and doesn't manage to hard read you. He doesn't have much speed in the air outside of Down-B/Up-B super-cancel, and can't get a grab since shielding is almost always a suboptimal decision against Lucario (which is why you should be hitting or avoiding Aura Sphere instead of shielding, making the "he'll gain supers while you don't approach" argument a terrible one.

Wario can steer Forward-B vertically and cancel the horizontal charging movement at any point, and his Up-B distance is very flexible. With such incredible horizontal aerial mobility, edge-canceling both moves' landings on a platform or a stage's edge is rather easy, which takes away all lag. It sounds to me like you're just not making use of all of his options.

 

[Bread-Butterer]

All of Lucario's normal cancels require you to hit a shield or a body, which means that dashdancing, wavedash back, etc., stuffs pretty much all of that, making it somewhat unsafe if he swings and doesn't manage to hard read you. He doesn't have much speed in the air outside of Down-B/Up-B super-cancel, and can't get a grab since shielding is almost always a suboptimal decision against Lucario (which is why you should be hitting or avoiding Aura Sphere instead of shielding, making the "he'll gain supers while you don't approach" argument a terrible one.

Wario can steer Forward-B vertically and cancel the horizontal charging movement at any point, and his Up-B distance is very flexible. With such incredible horizontal aerial mobility, edge-canceling both moves' landings on a platform or a stage's edge is rather easy, which takes away all lag. It sounds to me like you're just not making use of all of his options.

I think you're misunderstanding the basic premise of turtling with projectiles. The ultimate goal is to launch projectiles from a safe distance until either A: The opponent makes a mistake (shielding an aura sphere, or being hit by one), or B: Is forced to approach. Of course no player in their right mind is going to shield the aura sphere, but if you fail to take the initiative in approaching, it is eventually going to happen. This is not a false dichotomy for characters who do not have projectiles, it's a simple reality. If a Lucario player was inclined to, he could do this all day and not worry too much about his approach game.

In regards to your first point about the nature of Lucario's cancel game, I'm afraid you're not making a very strong argument. Hitting shields and bodies in a super smash brothers game is an inevitability. Most of his moves have solid range, duration and good/great priority. More importantly, almost all of his ground attacks set up into his combo range brilliantly. This means he only needs to strike your shield or body once to put you at a severe disadvantage. On the other hand, if he swings and misses he is only in as compromised a position as any other character who swings and misses. No player will be successful if they're constantly swinging and missing. Those characters, however, do not have the supreme benefit of cancelling their moves in the not so odd occurrence that they swing and hit.

Lucario's dair has great priority, and enough duration that if you down dodge you will be hit by the latter half of it. Your options then become either absorbing a hit, shielding, or being quick enough to roll out of the way, which is not always a possibility, and in the best case scenario it puts you on the defensive and you now have to deal with his excellent rushdown options. In the case of shielding, he can follow up his dair with a force palm on your shield before he touches the ground. This is a great approach manouver, and only one of many that he possesses, all of which you seem to be overlooking willfully or otherwise.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Most characters don't absolutely need to take initiative in approaching unless they're outright outclassed in some respect (getting Falco lasered, for instance). Wario, for instance, has unparalleled aerial mobility and benefits from charging for Waft; he's only going to get hit by Aura Sphere if Lucario takes the initiative, at which point Aura Sphere is a minor-to-nonexistent threat. The thing is, regardless of how fast-paced it can be, Smash is a naturally campy game because of the huge emphasis on spacing and superior positioning.

Hitting shields and bodies in Smash is not an inevitability, especially in Melee/PM, where there can be such a disparity in mobility/range/safety. That's why a character like Melee Bowser was completely unviable in high-level play; if you can't threaten an opponent because you're noticeably slower and less safe, you're forced to make hard reads just to be able to do damage, let alone combo. In terms of PM Lucario, his options in many cases are fairly straightforward, and don't have particularly good hitboxes; they're no space animal B-Air, and other than a reasonably fast dash and some super-cancel stuff, he's actually somewhat slow overall. Also, not every hit Lucario lands will lead into big damage, OHC or not; SDI and positioning can mitigate his combos like anyone else, and there are many combos and strings in this game that do more than Lucario's standard OHC stuff.

Lucario is a good character for dealing with spotdodges, but that just means that you shouldn't spotdodge; the same can be said for many characters. Why you're letting Lucario get that close to your shield with D-Air is beyond me, as well. Outside of super-cancels, he really doesn't have "excellent rushdown options." You're blowing simple, solid tools way out of proportion and making Lucario sound like an overpowered monster, which I don't think many high-level players would agree with.

 

[Bread-Butterer]

Lucario is a good character for dealing with spotdodges, but that just means that you shouldn't spotdodge; the same can be said for many characters. Why you're letting Lucario get that close to your shield with D-Air is beyond me, as well. Outside of super-cancels, he really doesn't have "excellent rushdown options." You're blowing simple, solid tools way out of proportion and making Lucario sound like an overpowered monster, which I don't think many high-level players would agree with.

I'm going to quickly breakdown the simple advice you've suggested for facing a Lucario in high level play over the course of your three posts.

1. Don't shield.
2. Don't spot-dodge
3. Don't allow your shield or body to be struck by his physical attacks
4. Don't allow your shield or body to be struck by his projectile attacks
5. Avoid approaching him
6. Don't ever allow him to be above you.

Read those points and attempt to remove them from the context of the character we're discussing. Now, alone, removed from all of our preconceived notions... does it sound like we're discussing a character with limited approach options? Be honest now. Does it sound like we're discussing a character with a multitude of deficiencies? One in need of BUFFING?

I can't for the life of me think of a single character in the history of Smash that requires you to avoid using almost all of your basic defense tactics to achieve success against. Even Falco requires a healthy dose of contextual shielding (I have reference for this, I was the top melee player in Toronto and probably all of Ontario for a year and a half, maining Falco). At the very least, the character described above has an incredibly viable approach game. At the most, the character above is counter-intuitive to the constructed laws of smash, and overpowered.

I really, really want you to read that list of advice you gave me for handling a Lucario matchup, and seriously consider it. Please.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

1-4 is the same as 5. Again, you're blowing this way out of proportion. Lots of matchups are played this way. Dedede could do an awful lot in Brawl if he managed to get near you; Donkey Kong could do an awful lot in Melee/N64 if he managed to get near you, but it was really hard for them to get near you. It's the same principle. If your character isn't very good at getting in to make your selling points count, then what do they matter?

In Melee/PM, speed and mobility are the single most important traits a character can have, because positioning and general safety is everything. This is why dashdancing is so plentiful and integral to high-level play. A few characters get by with other extreme traits (Peach's incredible safety with float canceling/huge hitboxes, for instance, or Falco's laser stage control [which FORCES you to shield in many situations, so your comparison of a need to shield against Lucario and Falco is kind of absurd]). Lucario struggled with that speed/mobility factor in 2.6(b), and so it turned into a lot of dashdance camping and was rough for Lucario to get something started. If Lucario's weakest trait is the most important one to have in Smash, he starts to look significantly less threatening.

Also, please stop being condescending. It's pretty infuriating regardless of the conversation involved and makes a person look like a massive dong.

 

[Bread-Butterer]

I think I've said all I'm going to say on this. We're going in circles.. which is nothing new for internet debates. One last thing.

please stop being condescending. It's pretty infuriating regardless of the conversation involved and makes a person look like a massive dong.

In regards to your note about my condescending attitude:

making the "he'll gain supers while you don't approach" argument a terrible one.

It sounds to me like you're just not making use of all of his options.

You're blowing simple, solid tools way out of proportion and making Lucario sound like an overpowered monster

your comparison of a need to shield against Lucario and Falco is kind of absurd

It's pretty infuriating regardless of the conversation involved and makes a person look like a massive dong.

- - TheReflexWonder


I could find more.

I think it's fair to say that in arguments, more often than not, both sides can tend to get condescending. It happens. My advice is not to take it personally.

 

[nLiM8d]

Admittedly, when I saw the changelist and was concerned. Then I saw Reflex's reaction to it and I knew that everything was going to be alright.

My complaints are minor in the wake of what's actually at stake. Any changes so far have yet to be truly fleshed out at high level play, i.e. if there's anything blatantly erroneous about this iteration, players will discuss those problems accordingly.

I can extend an olive branch to anyone who's distraught over these Wario changes- I'm down to help you port his 2.6 version over to this version. Its not like your friendlies are going to have any affect on the competitive scene.

Reading the above conversation: I wonder if there's a dislike button in the works.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Pointing out the flaw in an argument is not the same thing as heavily implying that the person is a fool ("look at what you wrote before typing again" is maximum dickery).

That said, we are derailing the thread. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to keep the conversation going, but let's not drag it out here.

I can say with confidence that these changes don't do much to affect Wario's viability. He still plays much the same way and there won't be much adjusting that needs to be done.

 

[Ace55]

Ignoring this whole thread and just focusing on this remark:

Admittedly, when I saw the changelist and was concerned. Then I saw Reflex's reaction to it and I knew that everything was going to be alright.

Kinda overdoing it with the blind faith aren't we?


Now to the subject at hand. I'm surprised by the amount of nerfs Wario got. I especially find nerfing his Dsmash and Ftilt odd choices. Even if individually the nerfs aren't that big it implies that the PMBR thought Wario was too good or that the affected moves were somehow bad (people apparently like to call it toxic) for the game. However if he was considered toxic it would be expected he would get some tweaks to compensate but as far as I can tell it's nerfs and one tweak (Waft) for Wario. I'm surprised the PMBR seems to think that 2.6b Wario was just plain too good.

 

[nLiM8d]

Kinda overdoing it with the blind faith aren't we?

Depends on who's reading into it.

By all means, make an arbitrary comment about your agenda and proceed to do the opposite in the next sentence.

Ignoring this whole thread and just focusing on this remark:

Anyways...
Wario definitely feels like a truly realized Melee character in this iteration. My only true desire is to have some way to cancel his aerial Shoulder Bash (Which feels 1:1 to VBWL now) on account of a misfire. I sometimes want to lean into a Bite and mistakenly perform that move, but that's on me I suppose.

Oh and all the smash attack charge animations look the same. I fixed that on my copy by porting some of Wario's vBrawl animations.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

"My only true desire is to have some way to cancel his aerial Shoulder Bash (Which feels 1:1 to VBWL now) on account of a misfire. I sometimes want to lean into a Bite and mistakenly perform that move, but that's on me I suppose."

You can hold backwards during an Aerial Side B to make Wario stop moving forward. It's not a true cancel, but it might help a little bit.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Kinda overdoing it with the blind faith aren't we?

I wouldn't steer you wrong. <3

Half of the nerfs were just to lessen extremely mindless things. There's no reason that F-Tilt needed to linger like it did, or for U-Air to be able to combo into other stuff without landing.

 

[Shimesaba]

I can say with confidence that these changes don't do much to affect Wario's viability. He still plays much the same way and there won't be much adjusting that needs to be done.

If it doesn't do much to affect his viability, why take the Side-B slide away? It was a cool Wario Land reference and lots of people liked it. =( It's pretty non-threatening so you can't really call it a mixup, and it's kind of hard to believe that it put him at a gamebreaking advantage on shield.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

If it doesn't do much to affect his viability, why take the Side-B slide away? It was a cool Wario Land reference and lots of people liked it. =( It's pretty non-threatening so you can't really call it a mixup, and it's kind of hard to believe that it put him at a gamebreaking advantage on shield.

Because we don't want people to be allowed to just do a move willy-nilly and force the opponent into a four-possibility guessing game. If someone is also to read/react to it, you should be punished for it.

It wasn't gamebreaking, but it was certainly annoying as hell to be forced to guess like that even when you knew what was coming from Wario in neutral position (which is where unpredictability should shine a great deal).

 

[VhatDeHel]

I've always liked Wario and like him in this build, but may I ask why the Waft was changed? I can understand the idea behind shortening the charge time and making it weaker as a result but now I feel as if there is no real reason to use it as a kill move because I have to get the opponent up to like 80 or 90 now to use it when I could probably kill easier with the Side B.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

A big issue with the previous Waft was that there wasn't any incentive to use the move in a flexible manner. People would just hold onto it until full charge and use it to get what would often be a free stock when the opponent messes up (or off one of his many 50/50 mix-up options). That felt dirty and uncool, and it wasn't thought-provoking at all.

The current set-up has it so that the Waft is strongest (in terms of knockback) in the last ten seconds leading up to full charge, so now there's an incentive to go in with it. Also, since it charges to full earlier, you'll feel like you're making less of a sacrifice to use it during recovery, so we're trying to encourage different use instead of sacrificing a potential recovery in order to attack someone with it every single time.

 

[jtm94]

I agree with the waft change. The way it was, it rewarded a campy non-approaching playstyle with a free kill move. My buddy is learning Wario and was JUST saying 4 or so days ago that he really wanted to use the waft as a recovery tool, but it guaranteed a free kill and generally wasn't worth it. Now with around anywhere from 2-5 a match you can use it without regret.

I also agree SideB gave too many option and is STILL almost too good of a move imo. The fact it can go into grab, jump, crouch as well as KO at moderately high %s + work as a great edgeguarding/recovery tool was a but too much for one move.

I think the changes are really cool and will provoke a lot of different playstyles.

 

[VhatDeHel]

Ah okay, I can understand that then. It can be used to gimp, but also to recover, cool

 

[Ace55]

Depends on who's reading into it.

By all means, make an arbitrary comment about your agenda and proceed to do the opposite in the next sentence.

I have an agenda? Could you please explain or rephrase this part of your post because I'm not following?

 

[nLiM8d]

Wouldn't you rather discuss Wario instead? Being that it is the contrary decision to make from your initial reasons for posting here.

I just felt your 'in Reflex we trust' comment deserved a response.

I err We should feel so special



So what would be the implications of allowing Wario to duck from an aerial Shoulder Bash that's been landed (circuit 2.6)?

 

[Ace55]

My initial reason for posting was explaining my surprise at the Wario nerfs. I just felt your 'in Reflex we trust' comment deserved a response.

Besides that I'll try to wait before passing any real judgement on 3.0 Wario until I've played him extensively.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Now to the subject at hand. I'm surprised by the amount of nerfs Wario got. I especially find nerfing his Dsmash and Ftilt odd choices. Even if individually the nerfs aren't that big it implies that the PMBR thought Wario was too good or that the affected moves were somehow bad (people apparently like to call it toxic) for the game. However if he was considered toxic it would be expected he would get some tweaks to compensate but as far as I can tell it's nerfs and one tweak (Waft) for Wario. I'm surprised the PMBR seems to think that 2.6b Wario was just plain too good.

Ace I've been comparing the frame data between 3.0 and 2.6b and the nerfs to his normals aren't that extreme. The moves that they say have more endlag have like 1 or 2 frames usually, ftilt is the most extreme in that it had 4 active frames removed. Now down smash...I can't say anything in defense of it, because I honestly didn't use it that much...so it would be a little silly of me to try. So barring down smash, all of his normals are basically the same, and its not like he lost any combo potential with them. To me, it just seems like these changes encourage the player to be more committed to their inputs, because of the added lag to his moves, so he can't he can't be sloppy with his decisions. It doesn't change wario completely, just fine tunes him.

The waft change....oh my glob lol, its everything I ever wanted! Its still a good kill move in general, but it makes much more sense with its change in size and damage/knockback. I mean its still big, but its hitbox is only one wario instead of 2 or 3, bit of an exaggeration but you get the point. Also concerning the change to his side b....it honestly needed more commitment to it. Like by themselves, the options out of and complimented side b aren't the best, but when put together, it makes for a very overwhelming move. So I feel like that, even though I like the crouch, removing it was the best course of action. All in all I have to say, wario is looking pretty good to me, but time may prove other wise.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

every ****ing aerial in the game goes through forward-b, and it covers the option of jumping out of it (if your opponent spaces wisely) and (ALREADY HAVING COMMITTED TO) grab. the crouch thing could atleast stop you from getting punished but did nothing else in this situation.
now aerials beat forward b or the grab that looks like it 100% of the time no risks involved and you people argue about using it as a ****ing approach?

and why is the fair nerf barely discussed, he cant do his super awesome short hop fair nair anymore.

in terms of combos: garaunteed 0-death (half the cast)->50-50 mixups for one followup (exaggarated but you get the point)

i agree with the waft change tho

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Just as a note to those that haven't touched it yet, the new waft still functions just fine as a kill move and Wario still can combo into it of course. I also told my friend I thought Wario was at a near perfect power level in 2.6 save for a few tweaks. I definitely feel as though this iteration of Wario is complete.