The *New* Ness Match-Up Compendium: Meta Knight/Final Destination

[milesg2g]

I for one don't have that much problems with Mk's
This is probably because most MK's online suck
whatever the case Mk is light and predictable
Anyone who mains MK usually does'nt have a good sense of direction they just spam whatever move they have or dair spam to you to avoid any combos
PKT is a good move to use on MK but only for mid range
Long range will leave you too open, Ness doesnt recover from PKT on the ground as much as you want =/

 

[NintenJoe]

This isn't about match-up ratios. It's about what Ness can do to cope with Meta Knight's abilities.

 

[Snype]

I have played some bad and some good Metaknights, and as long as you F-air retreat they can hurt TOO
bad. Now I understand some can get by this and people know this so, you can also use PK Fire to space
yourself out. I play both Ness and Marth so I use F-air alot and I can space well enough. If you find your- self overwhelmed by MK try to grab him and throw away so you can get some room or at least try to change some attack strings to fool the player. The best thing when dealing with most A-S tier characters is to space, punish, and to string attacks.

 

[Snype]

Should we head to Snake now?

 

[1337-Zero]

Should we head to Snake now?

At first I was thinking yes, but there are only 3 pages of discussion about the best character in the game. We need more MKs in here who don't just say "Ness failz, durrhurrhurr". Thanks to the, wait a minute, 1 MK who provided helpful info already? O_O' More of an argument, but it was fruitful nevertheless.

Nintenjoe, I suggest you change the title to something more inviting. Like Andonut's Lab or something Earthboundy. Or a threat if they don't discuss, that always works.

 

[Snype]

Maybe it can say "Ness Match-up, come we have steak."

And also maybe we can send some posts to MK's topic about Ness.

 

[Fluxus]

Hope these help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJL5dKVKVBE&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdq_hK8mxcU&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvk-Cb1hb1M&feature=channel

MK on Ness action. My MK was kinda bad an predictable in these days but it does provide some footage in the matchup. I will be playing FOW soon and I'll try ti get matches with him up playing me.

Not gonna write a wall of text providing details, too lazy. Just the vids.

 

[1337-Zero]

MK on Ness action. My MK was kinda bad an predictable in these days but it does provide some footage in the matchup. I will be playing FOW soon and I'll try ti get matches with him up playing me.

Not gonna write a wall of text providing details, too lazy. Just the vids.

Thank you thank you. That would be very helpful if you could.

Now I'll watch the vids XD

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I have a few decent vs. Mk replays, if you want them.

 

[1337-Zero]

^ I think any vids that demonstrate ways to deal with approaches, priority stuff, etc. would be great. The things we say may look good on paper, but it's also important to see how effective they are in an actual battle.

@ Fluxus: Great vids, good demonstration of what Ness can do in the matchup. Nice displays of how Ness can be punished too. Also, thanks for taking the time to help us! We're pretty short on MKs here :/

 

[Chuee]

I would be really helpful if we had FOW vs Tyrant or FOW vs Judge vids.

 

[Uffe]

I don't mean to sound like a ****, but some people overrate FOW. No doubt he has a good Ness, but he's not the only good Ness out there.

 

[orange/xd]

Here's a good video of Dog Latin vs. Brdy

 

[1337-Zero]

Here's a good video of Dog Latin vs. Brdy

@ 0:50
OH ****

I'll never forget that, I don't care if the video was from last year.

This is what I'm talking about, specific examples of ways to stop what MK does. Everyone should watch 0:50. If you've already seen it, watch it again (I know he could have survived it, but still).

 

[Uffe]

I remember watching Dog Latin's videos about nine months ago or so. I wanted to do things like that with Ness. Dog Latin from what I've seen has pretty good PK Thunder control.

 

[Snype]

That video was amazing the yo-yo mindgame was nice.

 

[Fluxus]

I don't mean to sound like a ****, but some people overrate FOW. No doubt he has a good Ness, but he's not the only good Ness out there.

But he is the BEST Ness. And what he does with a low tier is simply amazing.

 

[1337-Zero]

But he is the BEST Ness. And what he does with a low tier is simply amazing.

*self-proclaimed*

That's what I love about FOW, any compliment you give him he's already given himself

Spoiler

What are you looking here for?

 

[smash64]

dog latin is still a beast!

 

[Uffe]

Gotta love that Latin Dog.

 

[Fluxus]

Sigh this is why I don't post much on the boards. People just want to fight and voice their opinion without looking at facts.

 

[vato_break]

i say we do fludd next.

hmmm nvm

100:0 match up, gg cp?

 

[1337-Zero]

Sigh this is why I don't post much on the boards. People just want to fight and voice their opinion without looking at facts.

Woah, wait a minute...There was a fight? And I missed it? Dang I always come by at the worst times.

NintenJoe, there's trouble at the home front. You're gonna need some sort of schedule to keep this thing alive. Very little discussion goes on anymore

 

[Uffe]

Sigh this is why I don't post much on the boards. People just want to fight and voice their opinion without looking at facts.

People said ViceGrip had the best Ness, which I still do believe he does and then suddenly many months later FOW went to SiN, beat three Meta Knight's, got fourth and suddenly the community wanted to be his friend. FOW has a good Ness, but he is not the only good Ness. But there are more good Ness mains than just him. You've got ViceGrip (if he still plays) from SoCal, Dog Latin from Washington, Shaky from Florida, Smash64 from Ohio, Magio from Germany, Achoral from France and possibly a few more. There's more than just one good Ness and that's a fact.

Ness is just such an underrated character that I don't think too many really care about these other Ness mains. People are too busy talking about how M2K lost against so-and-so or Ally beating M2K yet again, or whoever is really good at the moment that used top and high tier character to beat one of the two. Unless you're really popular amongst the community, nobody is going to care whether or not your Ness is really good until you show them and have people getting overly excited about your Ness ****** an MK.

 

[Shaky]

Sigh this is why I don't post much on the boards. People just want to fight and voice their opinion without looking at facts.

Talking about facts, FOW hasn't placed top 8 after SIN (and he's been to about 4 tournaments after that). Another fun fact: Smash64 has placed top 8 at every tournament he has been.

 

[Snype]

Okay I know I don't own this topic but at the risk of being flamed. Lets go to Snake, I say this because not too many MK players posted and no new ones have.




Snake:He has good kill moves and is very fast with them, watch out for the up-tilts hit box.

 

[Uffe]

Should we get the Snake mains in here? Ness needs to tame them. </earthboundreference>

 

[Eagleye893]

Yes... But it's both discussing on mk the character and fd the stage separately. We haven't gotten any real overview of fd OR cp and ban data concerning all characters.

I'll just put the easy and what I have... Or think...
Cp: snake?; cfalc; ganon; Ike; Zelda; samus; yoshi?; Kirby;
ban: D3; falco; marth; diddy?; link?;
no preference: others

I know I'm forgetting or mis-placing a lot, but this is just randomly what I think at the time I write this and nowhwere near what it should be...

 

[Snype]

Well I think overall FD can make or brake you, the lip gimps your second jump, and the long field can be used to help or hurt you, (depending on how smart the player is.) The long field means you CAN get CG'ed,
I guess if you don't get grabbed easily it is a good stage, but you still need to be careful.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

How about we discuss stages on my thread?

 

[1337-Zero]

How about we discuss stages on my thread?

This

We really don't need two discussion threads, and Mop is doing just fine with his already.
It's time to switch stages though Mop, I think we're done discussing whatever we were discussing.

Also, name changes for both of these threads.

Character discussion: Mu Training: The Ness Matchup thread

Stage Discussion: (No freaking clue, but for some reason "Oh, Baby!-Ness stage discussion" keeps running through my head)

Just some name ideas 'cuz I'm bored

 

[Eagleye893]

Character discussion: Mu Training: The Ness Matchup thread

Stage Discussion: (No freaking clue, but for some reason "Oh, Baby!-Ness stage discussion" keeps running through my head)

Just some name ideas 'cuz I'm bored

Good character one....
Eagleland.... something.... but something involving EAGLELAND in the name....

 

[1337-Zero]

Good character one....
Eagleland.... something.... but something involving EAGLELAND in the name....

Eaglelands?

Just make it plural, and there you go.

I actually really like that.

 

[TKD]

Buffer SH fairs into air-jumps and land while fairing. Don't get grabbed. Can't think of much else. Bthrow, nair, other stuff KOs but you guys know that.

 

[Fluxus]

People said ViceGrip had the best Ness, which I still do believe he does and then suddenly many months later FOW went to SiN, beat three Meta Knight's, got fourth and suddenly the community wanted to be his friend. FOW has a good Ness, but he is not the only good Ness. But there are more good Ness mains than just him. You've got ViceGrip (if he still plays) from SoCal, Dog Latin from Washington, Shaky from Florida, Smash64 from Ohio, Magio from Germany, Achoral from France and possibly a few more. There's more than just one good Ness and that's a fact.

Ness is just such an underrated character that I don't think too many really care about these other Ness mains. People are too busy talking about how M2K lost against so-and-so or Ally beating M2K yet again, or whoever is really good at the moment that used top and high tier character to beat one of the two. Unless you're really popular amongst the community, nobody is going to care whether or not your Ness is really good until you show them and have people getting overly excited about your Ness ****** an MK.

My point proven.

In the meantime, I'll record my next matches with FOW and put them up for you guys, he actually beats me, so you'll see it from the other end. Thank you for your time.

'Til then.

 

[Snype]

Come on guys lets talk about Match ups.

 

[Eagleye893]

yes.... MK is agreed to be 55:45 MK advantage? or 60:40? i would say 55:45....

SNAKE!!!
I hate him.... he's probably the only character in the game that takes nearly no true skill to play well with. he has grenades that he can either lure you in with or throw at you, making you run around... and up close he has great attacks and can rack up damage real quick...
But with ness there are some things that can assist you.... not very many but there are some...
DON'T FAIR GRENADES!!!!! EVER!!!!!!!! they will explode in your face nearly all the time unless you are really lucky.... if anything nair or airdodge them, because then you will have something to throw back at them, but you won't always be given enough time to throw the grenades because the snakes will time it well enough so that if you do catch it you explode anyways... PKT stops the grenades in their tracks if hit by the head.... doesn't really help though. PKT2ing into explosives is okay, but then again there are many better things to do.... Basically the grenade is an effective stalling technique... snake players can keep you at bay when you are slightly behind and gradually take off little bits of health. if you ever try to approach the snake will either grab or ftilt or jab or whatever else which would be really quick and allow almost no punishment... but snake is nowhere near unbeatable...
pkfire helps to detonate explosives and/or forcing the snake to bring up their shield... i would say an aerial pkfire is better in this matchup though... if you pivot pkfire just out of range, they have enough time to normally DACUS into you and get something. a properly spaced pkfire in the air can allow you to bring up their shield, retreat if needed, or attack if expecting something stupid...
grab!!! throw!!! GET THEM AS FAR AWAY FROM THE STAGE AS POSSIBLE!!!! If the snake has control of the center of the stage, you are definitely doing it wrong.... snake is like a human landmaster.... his aerials are, in majority, laggy. you can hit him with a pkfire or pkt normally, and if you are really lucky, you can get off a pkflash... maybe not fully charged, but something... dair goes through the cypher, but a smart snake will avoid you at all costs. if a snake goes really high with the cypher, chase them down with a pkt, because if you can hit them with it they will die. if you see an airdodge, loop it around.
PSI Magnet is probably the least useful in this matchup. he can hit you easily, most of his attacks are long enough of a range to hit you even with the push... try to avoid using it unless he is going for grabbing the ledge, but this is a very rare usage...
SDI FIRST HIT OF FTILT!!! this will save you from a near 15% of damage of the second hit.... if you SDI far enough, you can fit in a pkfire when the opponent is expecting to hit with their second hit ftilt. if only barely far enough to not get hit, then either retreat a fair or shield/perfect shield to something else
Yoyos don't help a lot either.... all of my stuff doesn't work well against snake!! well at least im getting better with my aerial maneuvering...

Basically for the snake matchup, keep the snake off the stage if possible... keep him in the air if anything... keep your distance and space REAAALLY well.... don't approach predictably... snake is a "PLAY REALLY SAFE AGAINST HIM!!" type of charater... which is why i hate him... i would say 60:40 or worse, but i just hate snakes.... someone else help me out...

 

[Man of Popsicle]

If the snake loves grenades love getting just out of utilt/jab range and love PK Fire.

 

[1337-Zero]

And this is why EagleI is awesome. When everybody is confused about what to do, The Eagle takes command. XD

Thanks Eagle for moving us along, I'll post my info later.

 

[Eagleye893]

TANKS!!!!!

yeah... but really there is no way to approach a REAAALLY good snake... pkfire is slow enough to be able to shield when holding a grenade and easily get in something... like dash attack or DACUS.... everything (it seems) requires very strict timing when you map out exactly what the snake is able to do. ALSO... don't get grabbed.... tech chasing.... throwing into grenades.... holding you into a usmash mortar hit.... its a bad place to be.... snake is almost as evil as marth.... except he EXPLODES children rather than grab them frequently....

I say ban snake, not MK.... MK is at least bearable... maybe i just hate snake in brawl... or maybe i hate fighting snakes in brawl....