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The New Console Debates
- Thread starter DreamCaster
- Start date
- Status
Playstation 3:
IBM, leader of cell processor technology, and partner to Sony on building the PS3 mainframe, states that the core chip cannot run at more than 10-20% power wilout overloading. Roughly 33% of the time, ony the main 'hoses' blows, and the system shuts down completely. But hey, it's like gambling, right? 600 on Sony. And while Microsoft has Master Chief, and Nintendo has Link, Sony must conjure up some kind of gimmick, and quick to drive sales. Can Snake do it alone? No... but FF will be there to help. (In 2011 >_>)
XBOX 360:
Microsoft, in a state of arrogance, has turned down over 25 3rd party developers, saying that you must be an established company before making games on the 360. (If they were to do this 5 years ago, then we'd be without KotoR, and the like.) Not enough to hurt them, Any attachment to come out in the next year sent to rival Sony's features, will net you up to 700-880 dollars. At 600$, the Playstation suddenly doesn't seem so bad. This is in partner to the fact that SFII has been yet again delayed for XBLA. These series of delays are a child of the fact that the servers can't hold it.
Wii:
Nintendo's 3rd party line up (Sans Red Steel) are falling short of revolutionary. The gist of the games made for the system so far, are not using the motion sensor as much as Nintendo seems to want. With games such as Zelda, and Metroid Prime, how're the 3rd party developers going to fair if the games don't sell? If I'm right in my assumption, Nintendo's system might be too advanced for non-superstar 3rd parties. (I.E. Ubisoft, Square-Enix, EA) Secondly, after confirming online for Brawl, and THPS, it was stated that the friend code system will still be in effect... This displeases alot of gamers, due to the confusion, and sheer difficulty of the system. Compared to XBOX Live, it's homework.
When it comes down to it, it seems Wii has the most to offer in terms of... your system not being teh suck.
IBM, leader of cell processor technology, and partner to Sony on building the PS3 mainframe, states that the core chip cannot run at more than 10-20% power wilout overloading. Roughly 33% of the time, ony the main 'hoses' blows, and the system shuts down completely. But hey, it's like gambling, right? 600 on Sony. And while Microsoft has Master Chief, and Nintendo has Link, Sony must conjure up some kind of gimmick, and quick to drive sales. Can Snake do it alone? No... but FF will be there to help. (In 2011 >_>)
XBOX 360:
Microsoft, in a state of arrogance, has turned down over 25 3rd party developers, saying that you must be an established company before making games on the 360. (If they were to do this 5 years ago, then we'd be without KotoR, and the like.) Not enough to hurt them, Any attachment to come out in the next year sent to rival Sony's features, will net you up to 700-880 dollars. At 600$, the Playstation suddenly doesn't seem so bad. This is in partner to the fact that SFII has been yet again delayed for XBLA. These series of delays are a child of the fact that the servers can't hold it.
Wii:
Nintendo's 3rd party line up (Sans Red Steel) are falling short of revolutionary. The gist of the games made for the system so far, are not using the motion sensor as much as Nintendo seems to want. With games such as Zelda, and Metroid Prime, how're the 3rd party developers going to fair if the games don't sell? If I'm right in my assumption, Nintendo's system might be too advanced for non-superstar 3rd parties. (I.E. Ubisoft, Square-Enix, EA) Secondly, after confirming online for Brawl, and THPS, it was stated that the friend code system will still be in effect... This displeases alot of gamers, due to the confusion, and sheer difficulty of the system. Compared to XBOX Live, it's homework.
When it comes down to it, it seems Wii has the most to offer in terms of... your system not being teh suck.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2002
- Messages
- 28,982
Let me also address in the manner you did:
Playstation 3
The console is going to turn off A LOT of American teenagers for being so pricey, as well as most kids who would want one for Christmas. However, if they really push and appeal to the older American gamers and Japanese gamers (they will spend the money for a console) then they could make up the lost until the cost comes down. This late in the game though, I don't see it happening. However, Sony still has a great format with Blu-Ray being about 30GB single layer and 50 gb double.
XBox 360
Though having a dismal release in Japan 360 did everything right that the Xbox did wrong. They have some strong titles to tie people over until the big dogs come out, a year jump on the big competiton and an even better online program than Live was originally. The only down side I see with the 360 is lack of diversity in titles right now. We see mostly shooters and sports games with the other titles peppered in but little innovative ideas. Fable 2 will allievate that no doubt, but I still want BC to be released and titles like it. However with MS deciding to not allow non-established developers to be released on it I don't see it happening. I do hope MS takes a page out of Steam's book on how to run games and allows full downloads and content storeage in the future. For anyone who uses Steam knows this is the easiest program that allows you to have games on the fly with no need for cds. 360 doesn't beat out Blu-Ray with space though at about 15gb single, 25gb dual (check cashed for that) BUT it does still allow for large games.
Wii
Nintendo too a HUGE step back with the 64. They had some good titles that did help them not go the way of Sega, but marketing failed to get them across for the GCN as well as the 64. With the Wii, they have changed that nicely. The Wii focuses ALOT more on interactivity than the GCN did and that's a great step. However, I only hope they decide to integrate the DS. Imagine the possiblities if controller one is the Wii remote and an adapter allows controller 2 to be the DS with a map on top an inventory on the bottom. However, the Wii fails however with the formats. The opted to go back to the standard DVD over the expanded HD-DVDs or Blu-Ray. DVDs are only about 4.7gb single, and about 8 dual. The problem with this comes in the ports. Most PS3 and 360 ports (such as HL2 for example) would use at the very minium around 10GB of HD content. That's still more than the Wii can come close to, so no HL2 for the Wii. This continues with TONS of other games that, though a great port for the Wii, it will not happen due to format issues. Nintendo has always taken a backwards step with formats for whatever reason with the 64 going the inferior carts, the GCN going the inferior mini-discs and so on. So, it's not a real shock that they have gone DVD, however they need to make their content compelling. 1st party games need to be used to their fullest potiential as well as establish some newer ideas and franchises. If they don't do this, they will take, at best, a second place seat.
I decided not to give any speculation as to who will come out ahead anymore, because really, I am getting them all, but each has an evident weakness, but until we can play them all, equally, it's hard to give any the advantage.
Playstation 3
The console is going to turn off A LOT of American teenagers for being so pricey, as well as most kids who would want one for Christmas. However, if they really push and appeal to the older American gamers and Japanese gamers (they will spend the money for a console) then they could make up the lost until the cost comes down. This late in the game though, I don't see it happening. However, Sony still has a great format with Blu-Ray being about 30GB single layer and 50 gb double.
XBox 360
Though having a dismal release in Japan 360 did everything right that the Xbox did wrong. They have some strong titles to tie people over until the big dogs come out, a year jump on the big competiton and an even better online program than Live was originally. The only down side I see with the 360 is lack of diversity in titles right now. We see mostly shooters and sports games with the other titles peppered in but little innovative ideas. Fable 2 will allievate that no doubt, but I still want BC to be released and titles like it. However with MS deciding to not allow non-established developers to be released on it I don't see it happening. I do hope MS takes a page out of Steam's book on how to run games and allows full downloads and content storeage in the future. For anyone who uses Steam knows this is the easiest program that allows you to have games on the fly with no need for cds. 360 doesn't beat out Blu-Ray with space though at about 15gb single, 25gb dual (check cashed for that) BUT it does still allow for large games.
Wii
Nintendo too a HUGE step back with the 64. They had some good titles that did help them not go the way of Sega, but marketing failed to get them across for the GCN as well as the 64. With the Wii, they have changed that nicely. The Wii focuses ALOT more on interactivity than the GCN did and that's a great step. However, I only hope they decide to integrate the DS. Imagine the possiblities if controller one is the Wii remote and an adapter allows controller 2 to be the DS with a map on top an inventory on the bottom. However, the Wii fails however with the formats. The opted to go back to the standard DVD over the expanded HD-DVDs or Blu-Ray. DVDs are only about 4.7gb single, and about 8 dual. The problem with this comes in the ports. Most PS3 and 360 ports (such as HL2 for example) would use at the very minium around 10GB of HD content. That's still more than the Wii can come close to, so no HL2 for the Wii. This continues with TONS of other games that, though a great port for the Wii, it will not happen due to format issues. Nintendo has always taken a backwards step with formats for whatever reason with the 64 going the inferior carts, the GCN going the inferior mini-discs and so on. So, it's not a real shock that they have gone DVD, however they need to make their content compelling. 1st party games need to be used to their fullest potiential as well as establish some newer ideas and franchises. If they don't do this, they will take, at best, a second place seat.
I decided not to give any speculation as to who will come out ahead anymore, because really, I am getting them all, but each has an evident weakness, but until we can play them all, equally, it's hard to give any the advantage.
HD-DVD isn't going to be used for games though so it doesn't matter for the 360. Microsoft's just releasing it so there are more HD-DVD players out there. Microsoft doesn't want Sony's new disc medium to become the new standard.
And dmbrandon, Street Fighter 2 Hyper Fighting never had an official announced release date until two weeks ago, and that date still stands. It's like Halo 2, everyone says it was delayed time after time, when it wasn't, Bungie never announced a release date until E3 2004. SF2HF will be out August 2nd on XBLA, the only officially announced date from both Capcom and Microsoft. The reason the game has taken so long too isn't that the servers couldn't hold it, but Capcom couldn't get the game to have a steady framerate and had to fix their netcode, because it was laggy as hell when they beta tested the online.
And dmbrandon, Street Fighter 2 Hyper Fighting never had an official announced release date until two weeks ago, and that date still stands. It's like Halo 2, everyone says it was delayed time after time, when it wasn't, Bungie never announced a release date until E3 2004. SF2HF will be out August 2nd on XBLA, the only officially announced date from both Capcom and Microsoft. The reason the game has taken so long too isn't that the servers couldn't hold it, but Capcom couldn't get the game to have a steady framerate and had to fix their netcode, because it was laggy as hell when they beta tested the online.
Vyse0wnz
Banned via Administration
PS3:
No one's going to buy one when it's 600+ bucks for just the low-tier version. (And yes, it is -- 500 at 8.25 percent sales tax equals 41.25 bucks, one game equals 60 bucks, tax on that game is 4.95, and combined it all equals 606 bucks.) Sony is putting its company at risk, because the PlayStation has been one of the most profitable ventures in business history, and both PS1 and PS2 have been the most successful video game consoles in history by far. It doesn't matter if you're 10, 20, 30, or 40 -- one, who can afford a 600 dollar machine? Two, who actually wants to burn that much money? Raise your hands. One could get a Wii and a 360 for one PS3, come on now. The funny thing is Sony is still going to be losing money on selling the PS3 at such a high price, so they're gaining nothing from it.
Game-wise, I'm non-plussed. Metal Gear Solid 4 is a must-play, and I'll rent/ borrow a PS3 just to play it and beat it. Besides that? Ehh... Final Fantasy, of course, but Grand Theft Auto is no longer exclusive, a gigantic blow. Developers are AVOIDING the PS3, a gigantic blow. Normally a developr was guaranteed a profit by releasing ANYTHING on the PS1 and PS2, because it had such a gigantic userbase. That's why most of the more obscure games were on those consoles, like Katamari Demacy, Cookies and Cream, Ico, etc. Horrible sales on the PS2 are better than horrible sales on the Xbox and GameCube because it's owned in ten times the households. Now, though, since the Xbox 360 has a larger installed user base -- a totally rough guess of 7 million by the time the PS3 launches -- and considering Sony is out-pricing the consumers, developers are going another route. Sony shot itself in the foot unnecessarily. I cannot stress enough how badly they ***** themselves, and as a result the company may collapse.
Wii:
Nintendo has a huge problem because casual gamers just do not play their systems anymore. And can you blame them? You can count on your hand how many exclusive third-party titles the GameCube saw. Scratch that, how many exclusive third-party titles that DIDN'T suck the GameCube saw. Resident Evil is all I can think of. This goes back to the 64, too; besides Nintendo's in-house companies and Rare, they had very little support.
Now Nintendo is essentially saying, "Okay, **** all the other developers -- we're quite fine fitting into that niche." Business-wise that's fine -- they'll still make their money. Long-term that is not optimal, though; you're essentially admitting the vast majority of the gamer market is not going to be for you. That's great for Nintendo and horrible for the consumers. Nintendo is trying to get more 3rd-party support for the Wii, but then they make it with a string attached -- "Please utilize our new technology that makes the Wii unique! Please adapt to our controller!" It doesn't really work like that. Nintendo is going to see more 3rd-party support by default, though -- Sony's massive loss of market share means Nintendo automatically gets some of it, and as a result more developers will try to make some money off of it.
Speaking as a gamer, Nintendo is getting stale. They're relying on their big franchises, and the fanboys will always flock to them, but casual gamers are getting tired of it and more and more hardcore gamers are as well. Super Mario Sunshine? Wind Waker? Horrendous games, just incredibly boring. Metroid Prime was alright, but then again, it sold like **** compared to other great games on other consoles. The new franchises they do try to create are mostly on the DS or just flop -- Advance Wars has done well on the DS, but Battalion Wars has not. Pikmin costs a lot of money to start, according to Miyamoto, so they're committed to it... but it sells like crap. (A shame, too, since it's one of the GameCube's best games.) Animal Crossing has been a nice surprise, and so has Nintendogs, but it's going to be very hard to adapt Nintendogs to an actual console. Pokemon has always done better on the handhelds than the consoles and it too is getting stale.
Nintendo's going to be profitable for a long time, but they're pretty much admitting they're never going to be elite again. They don't have enough support, their primary franchises are getting stale, and the loss of Rare is truly going to start hurting them now. Remember how Rare had about half the amazing games on the 64? All those games are gone from the GameCube, and now Rare can start pumping out AAA games for the competition. As a pure gaming console, it's hard to get excited about the Wii.
Xbox 360:
Microsoft has hit a gold mine. You have to love what they did with their Xbox blueprint: Enter the market, make a ridiculously powerful system, eat a ton of money to give it an installed user base, and in the next generation make the big jump. Sure, they hit it HUGE with Halo, and got pretty **** lucky, but if you are a shrewd business luck seems to find you. Microsoft Studios has always produced some great games, their advertisement campaigns have been top notch (and they've been able to outspend their competitors), Xbox Live was a brilliant business design, and now they've got 5 million next-gen consoles in homes with a year lead.
Now they've gotten lucky again with Sony shooting themselves in the foot. Now they can take over the majority of the gaming market and finally get returns on those losses and firmly plant themselves at the top of gaming for a very, very long time. They've got a year advantage in quality games, which is HUGE. They didn't sacrifice a ton of technology in their console to do it, either. Xbox Live has three million and is steadily growing; that's a steady income of money as well, and it adds so much to their games and adds attachment to the console.
I have no idea why they're not going to drop the price when the PS3 drops, though. Imagine it at 325 or 350 to both compete with the Wii and smash all over the PS3, which is nearly double the price. Doesn't make sense to me, but with Gears of War and Halo 3 as certain AAA, must-have games, along with five AAA games already released -- GRAW, Oblivion, Call of Duty 2, Perfect Dark Zero, and DOA4 -- all Microsoft has to do is coast.
The funny part is I'm not getting any of the next-generation consoles anytime soon, probably in at least a year. PS3 and 360 are too expensive, though the 360 is by far the best buy. The Wii looks like garbage to me -- it only has one remotely appealing game to me, which is Brawl, of course. The thing is it looks like that game is going to flop hard -- they're changing up too many things, like taking out characters. It pisses me off. All I want is Melee with online play; do nothing else and I'd buy a Wii and Brawl the first day it comes out. But if Brawl isn't better than Melee, then I'm not going to get it or a Wii. Considering Melee is by far the greatest game of all-time, it has a long, long way to go.
No one's going to buy one when it's 600+ bucks for just the low-tier version. (And yes, it is -- 500 at 8.25 percent sales tax equals 41.25 bucks, one game equals 60 bucks, tax on that game is 4.95, and combined it all equals 606 bucks.) Sony is putting its company at risk, because the PlayStation has been one of the most profitable ventures in business history, and both PS1 and PS2 have been the most successful video game consoles in history by far. It doesn't matter if you're 10, 20, 30, or 40 -- one, who can afford a 600 dollar machine? Two, who actually wants to burn that much money? Raise your hands. One could get a Wii and a 360 for one PS3, come on now. The funny thing is Sony is still going to be losing money on selling the PS3 at such a high price, so they're gaining nothing from it.
Game-wise, I'm non-plussed. Metal Gear Solid 4 is a must-play, and I'll rent/ borrow a PS3 just to play it and beat it. Besides that? Ehh... Final Fantasy, of course, but Grand Theft Auto is no longer exclusive, a gigantic blow. Developers are AVOIDING the PS3, a gigantic blow. Normally a developr was guaranteed a profit by releasing ANYTHING on the PS1 and PS2, because it had such a gigantic userbase. That's why most of the more obscure games were on those consoles, like Katamari Demacy, Cookies and Cream, Ico, etc. Horrible sales on the PS2 are better than horrible sales on the Xbox and GameCube because it's owned in ten times the households. Now, though, since the Xbox 360 has a larger installed user base -- a totally rough guess of 7 million by the time the PS3 launches -- and considering Sony is out-pricing the consumers, developers are going another route. Sony shot itself in the foot unnecessarily. I cannot stress enough how badly they ***** themselves, and as a result the company may collapse.
Wii:
Nintendo has a huge problem because casual gamers just do not play their systems anymore. And can you blame them? You can count on your hand how many exclusive third-party titles the GameCube saw. Scratch that, how many exclusive third-party titles that DIDN'T suck the GameCube saw. Resident Evil is all I can think of. This goes back to the 64, too; besides Nintendo's in-house companies and Rare, they had very little support.
Now Nintendo is essentially saying, "Okay, **** all the other developers -- we're quite fine fitting into that niche." Business-wise that's fine -- they'll still make their money. Long-term that is not optimal, though; you're essentially admitting the vast majority of the gamer market is not going to be for you. That's great for Nintendo and horrible for the consumers. Nintendo is trying to get more 3rd-party support for the Wii, but then they make it with a string attached -- "Please utilize our new technology that makes the Wii unique! Please adapt to our controller!" It doesn't really work like that. Nintendo is going to see more 3rd-party support by default, though -- Sony's massive loss of market share means Nintendo automatically gets some of it, and as a result more developers will try to make some money off of it.
Speaking as a gamer, Nintendo is getting stale. They're relying on their big franchises, and the fanboys will always flock to them, but casual gamers are getting tired of it and more and more hardcore gamers are as well. Super Mario Sunshine? Wind Waker? Horrendous games, just incredibly boring. Metroid Prime was alright, but then again, it sold like **** compared to other great games on other consoles. The new franchises they do try to create are mostly on the DS or just flop -- Advance Wars has done well on the DS, but Battalion Wars has not. Pikmin costs a lot of money to start, according to Miyamoto, so they're committed to it... but it sells like crap. (A shame, too, since it's one of the GameCube's best games.) Animal Crossing has been a nice surprise, and so has Nintendogs, but it's going to be very hard to adapt Nintendogs to an actual console. Pokemon has always done better on the handhelds than the consoles and it too is getting stale.
Nintendo's going to be profitable for a long time, but they're pretty much admitting they're never going to be elite again. They don't have enough support, their primary franchises are getting stale, and the loss of Rare is truly going to start hurting them now. Remember how Rare had about half the amazing games on the 64? All those games are gone from the GameCube, and now Rare can start pumping out AAA games for the competition. As a pure gaming console, it's hard to get excited about the Wii.
Xbox 360:
Microsoft has hit a gold mine. You have to love what they did with their Xbox blueprint: Enter the market, make a ridiculously powerful system, eat a ton of money to give it an installed user base, and in the next generation make the big jump. Sure, they hit it HUGE with Halo, and got pretty **** lucky, but if you are a shrewd business luck seems to find you. Microsoft Studios has always produced some great games, their advertisement campaigns have been top notch (and they've been able to outspend their competitors), Xbox Live was a brilliant business design, and now they've got 5 million next-gen consoles in homes with a year lead.
Now they've gotten lucky again with Sony shooting themselves in the foot. Now they can take over the majority of the gaming market and finally get returns on those losses and firmly plant themselves at the top of gaming for a very, very long time. They've got a year advantage in quality games, which is HUGE. They didn't sacrifice a ton of technology in their console to do it, either. Xbox Live has three million and is steadily growing; that's a steady income of money as well, and it adds so much to their games and adds attachment to the console.
I have no idea why they're not going to drop the price when the PS3 drops, though. Imagine it at 325 or 350 to both compete with the Wii and smash all over the PS3, which is nearly double the price. Doesn't make sense to me, but with Gears of War and Halo 3 as certain AAA, must-have games, along with five AAA games already released -- GRAW, Oblivion, Call of Duty 2, Perfect Dark Zero, and DOA4 -- all Microsoft has to do is coast.
The funny part is I'm not getting any of the next-generation consoles anytime soon, probably in at least a year. PS3 and 360 are too expensive, though the 360 is by far the best buy. The Wii looks like garbage to me -- it only has one remotely appealing game to me, which is Brawl, of course. The thing is it looks like that game is going to flop hard -- they're changing up too many things, like taking out characters. It pisses me off. All I want is Melee with online play; do nothing else and I'd buy a Wii and Brawl the first day it comes out. But if Brawl isn't better than Melee, then I'm not going to get it or a Wii. Considering Melee is by far the greatest game of all-time, it has a long, long way to go.
kaid
Smash Master
Odd, how all the interviews of third partys concerning the Wii have been "we luv the controller".Vyse0wnz said:
Kojima has gone on the record saying the ultimate gaming system would be a PS3 witha Wiimote.
And if developers feel the features of the controller would actually detract from gameplay... There's always the GC ports, and Brawl is already using them.
EDIT: and Sony has seen all that hype, and has releaced this patent... which uses the Eyetoy to mimic the functions of a Wiimote.
I think you left out a few words in there.
Assuming you meant the average price of a 360 on launch day along with other items purchased was 980. The Good 360 package was what, around 400 US? Which would mean people payed around 580 more for extra stuff. So then for the PS3 launch, the price of buying the good package and the same extra stuff (assuming the prices are the same) the total is $1180.
The PS3 could be slightly cheaper I guess if there's no decent launch games....
Assuming you meant the average price of a 360 on launch day along with other items purchased was 980. The Good 360 package was what, around 400 US? Which would mean people payed around 580 more for extra stuff. So then for the PS3 launch, the price of buying the good package and the same extra stuff (assuming the prices are the same) the total is $1180.
The PS3 could be slightly cheaper I guess if there's no decent launch games....
People on Ebay were paying up to 2500$ for a pos360.Mic_128 said:
and btw.. I made that post at like...7 in the morning. Not everyone can be as chipper as Mr. I'mGonnaCloseEverythredIseeUntilMyHeartStopsBeating.
Did I spell that right?^_~
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2002
- Messages
- 28,982
Vyse0wnz, (nice name, wonder when your registered : |) you ignored all my previous statements of the price tag is something YOU won't pay. If I wanted a PS3 that bad, I would pay the money for it. Also, tax here is 8% so it would be slightly cheaper than you estimated here. Also, that is LAUNCH price. 360 will be down in price by then, so like the most peope who will wait, so will this. You really should read the topic to avoid making arguments that have been made again and again, it looks foolish.
SuperBowser
Smash Lord
well I'd disagree... I think Nintendo made a wise move with the wii. They realised that competing directly with sony and microsoft wasn't gonna cut it. If the wii went the same route as gamecube did to N64 the market share would have most certainly gone down again (going into why this would happen takes too much effort to explain but you can probably guessVyse0wnz said:
). With this strategy, they are most certainly not going down in market share. People call the wii a risky move, but it really isn't. Nitendo don't do anything unless it makes a profit.There are incentives to make games for the wii. It's the cheapest platform to develop for, meaning there is less risk involved and developers can actually make ''new'' games. Nintendo are in 3rd place and this seems to be the best way to get 3rd parties back on board. And also, some developers can make games for the virtual console. Also, they haven't forced anyone to make games with the remote. There's also the classic controller (assuming it's packed in with the console). Their attitude seems far better than the competitors anyway. Sony and microsoft have turned some developers away for not making games that take enoguh advantage of the console's graphical capabilities. Sony doesn't want any 2D games.
To a certain extent I agree with you. Other than smash brothers and wind waker I was very disappointed with my gamecube this generation. Up to the point I was going to stop playing videogames altogether. But I think it's unfair to call mario and zelda horrendous and boring. I loved wind waker >: (. Hopefully the wii will change this. Giving the games a new control style will hopefully do to the series what the N64 did. Mario bros. to Mario 64. Mario kart to mario kart 64. Link to the past to ocarina of time. This is the main reason I'm getting a wii. The new control style is going to actually bring something new to the table and not jsut better graphics and more enemies on the screen.Vyse0wnz said:
Vyse0wnz said:
You don't really believe this? Rare were a sinking boat. Yes, what they did on the N64 was integral to its success but that was it. A lot of the developers walked out and nintendo sold them off for an obscene amount of money (microsoft screwed up there...). Nothing rare has done since the sale has proven nintendo made a bad move. Also, rare still makes games for DS...
I don't see how they admit they won't ever be ''elite'' again. 3rd party support is increasing this gen compared to gamecube. EA alone will make a pretty big difference. I guess we'll have to wait for the first 2 years to pass to really make a judgment but at the moment it seems a bit silly to assume 3rd parties will ignore them.
And I think it's kinda ironic you said you can't be excited about the wii as a pure gaming console. That's exactly why I can't wait for it.
((mlarg i might edit later to add some more stuff. ))
Vyse0wnz
Banned via Administration
Yeah, I'm going to read through 54 pages of stuff just for you. Good luck with that one.Crimson King said:
It'd still be 600 bucks. :|For the lower-tier console.
Actually, the 360 isn't going to go down in price... That's what everyone thinks / thought, but Microsoft's not going to do it. Microsoft officials confirmed it... Haven't you even been keeping up on gaming?
You spoke in like half English, so I'm not even sure what you're trying to say...
The reason the GameCube and 64 were relative flops is because they offered nothing that appealed to older gamers. And most mature games are actually the best games in gaming anyway. They had nothing that was exclusive and it got a horrible stigma. Wii IS doing the same thing, only it's being honest with it. It's saying, "Okay, we weren't competing with them before, so now we'll make it official and state we won't even try."SuperBowser said:well I'd disagree... I think Nintendo made a wise move with the wii. They realised that competing directly with sony and microsoft wasn't gonna cut it. If the wii went the same route as gamecube did to N64 the market share would have most certainly gone down again (going into why this would happen takes too much effort to explain but you can probably guess
The stupid thing is the Wii is actually going to pay off because Sony ***** themselves.
Misconception. GameCube was the easiest to develop for. How many games did it get? It's not about it being the cheapest to develop for, its about your game reaching the most households... GameCube is everything you 're praising the Wii for, and it has the fewest games out, its sales are the lowest, very few developers work for it.
Huh? Last place = developers come?
Of course, just like they're not FORCING anyone to make games using the dual screens for the DS. But they strongly ENCOURAGE it, of course... And look at the DS -- a lot of times developrs utilize the two screens just as a token thing. The best use of it has been with Nintendo themselves, and its foolish to think anything will be different with the Wii.
I hope they learned their lesson with the GameCube controller...
Link? 2D games are rarely made anyway.
I realize most Nintendo fanboys and those who buy a Wii are going to love their fanboy franchises, and that's fine. Me personally, I'm sick and tired of them, and I AM a hardcore gamer. How do you think most casual gamers feel? I have friends that are both casual and hardcore, and all the casual gamers write GameCube off. At first I disagreed, but look back -- were they wrong?
Mario Sunshine was laughable. I have no idea how you liked that game. It was too repetitious. You'd have to do long stupid things that were difficult, and if you failed you had to start from scratch and do it all over again. The boss battles were cool, but overall the game bored me to tears. Wind Waker was the easiest game I've ever played.
Money doesn't matter to Microsoft, obviously... And $275 million isn't a lot to buy Rare for.
Yeah, Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero. Rare automatically adds 5-plus top notch EXCLUSIVE titles for whoever they're working for. When's the last time they made a bad game? Seriously. Rare is one of the best companies in video game history.
Well yeah, ANYTHING is an improvement over the GameCube -- it had zero support. Compared to 360, though? Doubtful. Hell, Sony still might get more developers. And what EXCLUSIVE titles is it getting that look great?
What games look good for the Wii compared to PS3 and 360? :|
You honestly think Microsoft would say "Yeah! There's going to be a price drop this fall!"? That would be shooting themselves in the foot, everybody would just wait until fall to pick one up then. The price will likely drop sometime around PS3 release, and it'll just be sudden, there will not be an announcement before it.
There is a 360 bundle coming out though sometime soon, it's the premium 360, 3 months of Live, 1600 Microsoft points (you use them to buy stuff on the Marketplace) and PGR3. All for $400.
There is a 360 bundle coming out though sometime soon, it's the premium 360, 3 months of Live, 1600 Microsoft points (you use them to buy stuff on the Marketplace) and PGR3. All for $400.
smashman90
Smash Lord
I think that the PS3 is utterly doomed unless they lower their prices since that seemed to be the main con for them. The Wii will probably use that to their advantage because the Wii is going to be 250 dollars or less so they will have some advantage and Nintendo will last a long time because of fans won't let iconic characters die.
SuperBowser
Smash Lord
Oh god, did you have to do such a messy reply to my post. i hate having to put so many quote tags and it kinda takes things I said out of context... 
I'm just gonna reply in order to what you said.
The wii IS doing something different. It's offering a totally new control scheme that the competitors don't have. It won't be as comparatively late to the competition as its predecessors. It will be marketed much much better. It is much cheaper than its competition. It has a new (possibly superior) control scheme. What do you mean exactly by nintendo aren't trying to compete (it can be taken it a lot of ways...)? They make their own console and their own games for it. That brings them the most money. If they had (foolishly) gone the same route as PS3 and 360 they would have been trounced. It would just be a repeat of this gen and thoguh they've helped define many of the popular genres played today they ''own'' fairly few of these markets. With the wii they can make new genres again and actually offer something the others can't.
Yes, the gamecube was the easiest to develop for but so what? I didn't mention anything about it so why bring it up? This gen, there is a MUCH larger gap between development prices of the wii to PS3 and 360. Not to mention, I think nintendo lost the whole ''do it our way or piss off'' attitude with 3rd party developers. Interestingly, that is exactly the attitude sony seems to have adopted this gen...
That's taken out of context... I was saying, given the position nintendo is in, they are taking the best route possible to gain 3rd party support. What would you suggest instead if you think there's something better... And wheher you choose to acknowledge it or not, 3rd party support has increased >.>
Again, what's your point? It's not surprising some of the best games on a Nintendo console are going to be by Nintendo. But there are good 3rd party games too. I'm too lazy to go through a list for the DS but there's at least 5 decent ones out there... If it wasn't a crap game with new controls, it would be a crap game with old controls. Blaming the DS touchscreen and 2 screens for a game's shortcomings is a bit dumb. It's not like anything has been detracted from the experience.
Meh, maybe I'll find the link another time. It was an interview with the Metal Slug people. The guy basically said he wanted to bring the franchise to the PS3 but was turned away. It's now coming out for the wii launch. Why are you writing it off? You complain about Nintendo not getting 3rd party support yet when something like this does make a difference to the number of games they get you just ignore it...
I'm not here to defend the gamecube. But some of the problems that came from gamecube were from self served predictions by 3rd parties. A company decides not to make a game for the gamecube because its audience might be too small. Fair enough. Then another five do it. Guess what? That directly caused the audience to dwindle.
You don't like mario sunshine or wind waker, fine. But don't pass your opinion off as fact. They did plenty of things right and most people would say they enjoyed the game.
Last I checked, kameo and perfect dark both got lukewarm reviews. They were good, but not system sellers. They used to be one of the best companies. They no longer are. Most people would rate mario sunshine and wind waker over kameo and perfect dark... Also, nintendo has acquired other second parties (retro) since then and collaborated with more 3rd parties like namco, sega, square enix and capcom. We aren't in the same position as nintendo to see what they based their decision off but if Rare actually had the potential to make a difference for nintendo, they wouldn't have sold them.
Good exclusives revealed so far can be found in the wii thread... if you don't like them, fair enough. Just in case you don;t know though, mario and zelda are coming out. 3rd parties = sonic, heroes, elebits, rayman, trauma centre, dragon quest, crystal chronicles. The wii seems to be pretty popular in japan among consumers and developers alike. But it doesn't matter. You said nintendo won;t ever be ''elite'' again. I was just questioning that.
I only replied in the first palce because you made it sound all doom and gloom for the wii and as if market share would decrease. It really isn't. Nintendo have made vast improvements this gen.
The only prediction I'm willing to make right now is the sony is going to lose market share from its current 70%. The question is how much and I don't think anyone could say till at least a year from now. Sony can quite easily win this gen with a solid 60%, if they get their act together during/after the launch.
I'm just gonna reply in order to what you said.
The wii IS doing something different. It's offering a totally new control scheme that the competitors don't have. It won't be as comparatively late to the competition as its predecessors. It will be marketed much much better. It is much cheaper than its competition. It has a new (possibly superior) control scheme. What do you mean exactly by nintendo aren't trying to compete (it can be taken it a lot of ways...)? They make their own console and their own games for it. That brings them the most money. If they had (foolishly) gone the same route as PS3 and 360 they would have been trounced. It would just be a repeat of this gen and thoguh they've helped define many of the popular genres played today they ''own'' fairly few of these markets. With the wii they can make new genres again and actually offer something the others can't.
Yes, the gamecube was the easiest to develop for but so what? I didn't mention anything about it so why bring it up? This gen, there is a MUCH larger gap between development prices of the wii to PS3 and 360. Not to mention, I think nintendo lost the whole ''do it our way or piss off'' attitude with 3rd party developers. Interestingly, that is exactly the attitude sony seems to have adopted this gen...
That's taken out of context... I was saying, given the position nintendo is in, they are taking the best route possible to gain 3rd party support. What would you suggest instead if you think there's something better... And wheher you choose to acknowledge it or not, 3rd party support has increased >.>
Again, what's your point? It's not surprising some of the best games on a Nintendo console are going to be by Nintendo. But there are good 3rd party games too. I'm too lazy to go through a list for the DS but there's at least 5 decent ones out there... If it wasn't a crap game with new controls, it would be a crap game with old controls. Blaming the DS touchscreen and 2 screens for a game's shortcomings is a bit dumb. It's not like anything has been detracted from the experience.
Meh, maybe I'll find the link another time. It was an interview with the Metal Slug people. The guy basically said he wanted to bring the franchise to the PS3 but was turned away. It's now coming out for the wii launch. Why are you writing it off? You complain about Nintendo not getting 3rd party support yet when something like this does make a difference to the number of games they get you just ignore it...
I'm not here to defend the gamecube. But some of the problems that came from gamecube were from self served predictions by 3rd parties. A company decides not to make a game for the gamecube because its audience might be too small. Fair enough. Then another five do it. Guess what? That directly caused the audience to dwindle.
You don't like mario sunshine or wind waker, fine. But don't pass your opinion off as fact. They did plenty of things right and most people would say they enjoyed the game.
Last I checked, kameo and perfect dark both got lukewarm reviews. They were good, but not system sellers. They used to be one of the best companies. They no longer are. Most people would rate mario sunshine and wind waker over kameo and perfect dark... Also, nintendo has acquired other second parties (retro) since then and collaborated with more 3rd parties like namco, sega, square enix and capcom. We aren't in the same position as nintendo to see what they based their decision off but if Rare actually had the potential to make a difference for nintendo, they wouldn't have sold them.
Good exclusives revealed so far can be found in the wii thread... if you don't like them, fair enough. Just in case you don;t know though, mario and zelda are coming out. 3rd parties = sonic, heroes, elebits, rayman, trauma centre, dragon quest, crystal chronicles. The wii seems to be pretty popular in japan among consumers and developers alike. But it doesn't matter. You said nintendo won;t ever be ''elite'' again. I was just questioning that.
I only replied in the first palce because you made it sound all doom and gloom for the wii and as if market share would decrease. It really isn't. Nintendo have made vast improvements this gen.
The only prediction I'm willing to make right now is the sony is going to lose market share from its current 70%. The question is how much and I don't think anyone could say till at least a year from now. Sony can quite easily win this gen with a solid 60%, if they get their act together during/after the launch.
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Then ANYTHING you say is worthless to me, as you will miss points we discussed already.VyseOwnz said:
So, you really expect the 360 to stay at the price it's at now for the remainder of it's life cycle? That's pretty stupid to me. Also, no I don't keep up on gaming news because I have alot more important things to do. The only reason I participate in this "debate" is because other wise it would be an unintelligent mash of 360/PS3 bashing. Plus, Cashed can't be all alone.
Nice attempt to bash me, but I don't see anything in the quote that was "half-English."
Vyse0wnz
Banned via Administration
Okay, so I just won't respond to you, nor do I care how many points I missed. Thanks for the heads up.Crimson King said:
Vyse0wnz
Banned via Administration
And you're assuming that control scheme results in better games, or that casual gamers care or will even want to play with somehting like that...SuperBowser said:
GameCube came out like the same time as Xbox after PS2 got a head start. Wii is coming out about the same time as PS3 after 360 got a head start. Huh?
You have no idea how it will be marketed... Hell, how much hype is there now for it by the general public? Hype for the PS3, even though it costs a billion dollars. Hype for Wii? Not outside hardcore gamers...
GameCube was cheaper. No one cared.
Compete means actually try to gain market share. Nintendo has never tried to gain the older gamers by actually having quality mature games on its console. About 2 years in the GameCube sports got pulled. 3rd parties never came. You always saw a multi-console title come out for Xbox and PS2, rarely all three. Sure, Wii's supposed to be getting sports ... we'll see if they actually s tay this time.
What new genres? Why are you assuming so much? Seriously. I have no idea why. What new franchises for consoles have they made since the SNES that really took off? Pikmin and Animal Crossing is all I can think of, and Pikmin was a bust.
Uh yeah, you touted the Wii being the easiest to develop for as it being a big point its favor. And that example holds zero ground because GameCube was easy to develop for as well and still no one cared.
Really? I don't know how much the gap is. A link, please?
How? :| A ton of developers, as always, are developing for PS3...
You're looking at everything with rosy fanboy glasses and I have no idea why. Once upon a time the GameCube was set to get great 3rd party support. You're assuming the best for no reason. Actually name some actual 3rd party exclusive games that look great...
Some? More like almost every freakin game...
DS' 3rd party support is different because it's the handheld with the most market share, though don't get me started on how Sony came in and smashed on Nintendo with the PSP. About the DS I was referring to 3rd parties really making good use of the 2 screens. What great games have from 3rd parties?
What gane? Metal Slug anthology? That's coming out for PSP too...
I'm the one consistently asking for 3rd party GAMES that are exclusive. And you haven't named any. =/
Well from the get-go it was barely beating the newcomer Xbox and losing in Europe and USA, the two biggest gaming markets... And from the get-go it had a little 3rd party support.
1. You didn't even read what I said. 2. Oh wow, I didn't know I have to state that what I'm saying is OPINION when naturally anything I or anyone says is an opinion unless there's an obvious statistic / fact somewhere...
What in the world are you talking about? PDZ is averaging 80.8% from GameRankings and got a 9.0 from GameSpot, widely considered the best gaming site... Kameo has an average of 80.5% and got an 8.7 from GameSpot... That's a lukewarm review? Lmfao.
You do realize Namco released the Star Fox flop and out of all those companies you named, the only quality exclusive I can think of is Tales of Symphonia? And they also gave up Silicon Knights, the makers of the superb Eternal Darkness. :|
Rare was going to leave anyway. :| Nintendo owned part of them so Microsoft just bought out that part and grabbed them. Lmfao @ how biased and fanboyish that statement was -- "if Rare actually had the potential to make a difference for nintendo, they wouldn't have sold them."
You can name them here then. Sonic's going to be on Xbox and PS3 as well, so try again. Rayman is multi-platform. Trauma on DS got worse reviews than Kameo and PDZ you hypocrite. Square Enix have also put Dragon Warrior / Quest games on the PS2 and will assuredly do so for the PS3 as well... The original Crystal Chronicles was solid but nothing special, also getting worse reviews than Kameo and PDZ. Elebits lets you play hide and seek. :| I can't find any information on Heroes and its developer is someone I've never heard of (Marvelous). Wait, THIS is supposed the BEST the Wii has? A couple of likely solid titles but zero AAA? I mean, you could've at least said Red Steel -- that actually looks promising. 360 has Saints Row, Fable sequel, Halo 3, Gears of War, GTA, Dead Rising. And as for 3rd party games it has coming that aren't necessarily exclusive but as of now aren't coming to Wii / GameCube? Tony Hawk, Godfather, Smackdown vs RAW, Alien Hominid port, Prey, Bioshock, Lost Planet: Extreme Edition, Mass Effect, Battle for Middle-earth II, Splinter Cell, Forza 2... Not close, is it?
I stated that it'd increase simply because Sony owned themselves. They've made incremental improvements, nothing "vast."
Sony has zero chance of having 60% market share. I bet it'll be more like 45% 360 / 30% Wii / 25% PS3.
People do wait to buy things if they know the price is dropping or if there is going to be a good deal.
The bundle is in Toys R Us's computer system, and things don't get put into a system like that until it's confirmed they're getting it from the company.
And if you want to continue posting in this topic thinking you're so high and mighty above everyone, I can hook you up with a two week vacation or a permanent one.
The bundle is in Toys R Us's computer system, and things don't get put into a system like that until it's confirmed they're getting it from the company.
And if you want to continue posting in this topic thinking you're so high and mighty above everyone, I can hook you up with a two week vacation or a permanent one.
Vulpine51
Smash Lord
I will admit that there are some things about the Wii that still erk me (weaker power, name) but I'm sure I will be totally happy with it. As far as gaming goes I think I want to try somthing new. As long as it's at least 2x as powerful as the cube I'll be satisfied as far as graphics go. Im sure there are people out there that feel the same way
I really dont care all too much about 3rd party games. Dont get me wrong now. The more the marrier. The thing is that I usually dont buy more than 8 games per system and there's already quite a few that have caught my eye. Plus I know I can rely on Nintendo to carry on the titles I liked from past consoles to new ones. But hey, I know theres gonna a few 3rd parties I'll enjoy.
I really dont care all too much about 3rd party games. Dont get me wrong now. The more the marrier. The thing is that I usually dont buy more than 8 games per system and there's already quite a few that have caught my eye. Plus I know I can rely on Nintendo to carry on the titles I liked from past consoles to new ones. But hey, I know theres gonna a few 3rd parties I'll enjoy.
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The rule would be triple posting and spamming and flaming and I am sure you can toss a few others.
Read the rules.
Read the rules.
Grabbed by the Ghoolies.
Casual gamers seemed to go for the Eye-toy games, the singstar games and Guitar hero games, despite looking like fools while playing.
The Wii is going for no more than $250 US. How much did the 360 go for? $400 wasn't it?
And numerous developers are complaining about how dificult it is to program a game for PS3.
But there's an exclusive Wii game that's totally diferent to the 360-PS3 game (No crappy Silver the Hedgehog in this one)
A quick check on the Ubisoft homepage shows Rayman Raving Rabbids as a Wii exclusive.
From where? All reviews I're read have given it great scores.
What's this got to do with anything?
It's not FF:CC from the gamecube, it's a NEW game. One that has fixed it's previous issues.
Smash just lets you fight, and Halo just lets you shoot. It's still a great game.
EVERYONE knows of Red Steel. It's better and more original than the others.
So that's 2.
SuperBowser
Smash Lord
Thank you Mic.. I'll just add a few more things.
Last time the leader of the market launched first by a huge margin. That cost microsoft and nintendo sales. This time round sony didn't launch sales and I'll go out on a limb and say nintendo has lost relatively few sales to microsoft. I just thought it was obvious so didn't bother explaining.
You think the wii will be advertised as poorly as gamecube? We'll just ahve to disagree then. I think the advertising is going to be on par with the DS though.
The new contorl scheme is gonna be used to make games that appeal to new audiences.
I never talked about the wii being the easiest to develop for so stop bringing it up. I said the wii is the CHEAPEST. I don't knwo where the numbers are but look at it this way. I think the wii is somewhere around the development prices of a PSP. PS3 and 360 have obviously gone up from last gen.
I suppose it depends what you call a new genre. I would say any wii sports games are a new genre themselves. They seem radically different to other console version.
LOL, I'm not a fanboy. If nintendo screws up I'm quite happy to call them on it. I could go on for ages for all the needless mistakes they made on the gamecube. But, the wii hasn't made any of those mistakes yet and it's you who's being biased about it... The wii has increased 3rd party support and it is unique support. I think that's a major advantage over what happenned with the gamecube.
Oh and I believe nintendo owned 51% of the shares in rare. Microsoft can't ahve bought them without nintendo selling. I don't know where you heard it was a forced takeover?
The biggest improvement nintendo made was the new control scheme. They now offer something you can't get on the other consoles. You keep assuming everyone thinks like you and because you don't like mario sunshine or wind waker or the controls of wii, no one else will. That is my problem with what you said.
Everything else, Mic already answered..
I also think it's hilarious that you put the 360 at the top of next gen. It doesn't even sell in japan and it's somehow gonna get 1st place?! Sony is gonna get at least a solid 2nd place in all three territories with or without their mistakes. They've already made some smart moves (like taking away some of wii's thunder) and if they win Europe and do decent elsewhere they will get 1st this gen again. You're being the fanboy...
edit: well it seems he got banned so nvm
Last time the leader of the market launched first by a huge margin. That cost microsoft and nintendo sales. This time round sony didn't launch sales and I'll go out on a limb and say nintendo has lost relatively few sales to microsoft. I just thought it was obvious so didn't bother explaining.
You think the wii will be advertised as poorly as gamecube? We'll just ahve to disagree then. I think the advertising is going to be on par with the DS though.
The new contorl scheme is gonna be used to make games that appeal to new audiences.
I never talked about the wii being the easiest to develop for so stop bringing it up. I said the wii is the CHEAPEST. I don't knwo where the numbers are but look at it this way. I think the wii is somewhere around the development prices of a PSP. PS3 and 360 have obviously gone up from last gen.
I suppose it depends what you call a new genre. I would say any wii sports games are a new genre themselves. They seem radically different to other console version.
LOL, I'm not a fanboy. If nintendo screws up I'm quite happy to call them on it. I could go on for ages for all the needless mistakes they made on the gamecube. But, the wii hasn't made any of those mistakes yet and it's you who's being biased about it... The wii has increased 3rd party support and it is unique support. I think that's a major advantage over what happenned with the gamecube.
Oh and I believe nintendo owned 51% of the shares in rare. Microsoft can't ahve bought them without nintendo selling. I don't know where you heard it was a forced takeover?
The biggest improvement nintendo made was the new control scheme. They now offer something you can't get on the other consoles. You keep assuming everyone thinks like you and because you don't like mario sunshine or wind waker or the controls of wii, no one else will. That is my problem with what you said.
Everything else, Mic already answered..
I also think it's hilarious that you put the 360 at the top of next gen. It doesn't even sell in japan and it's somehow gonna get 1st place?! Sony is gonna get at least a solid 2nd place in all three territories with or without their mistakes. They've already made some smart moves (like taking away some of wii's thunder) and if they win Europe and do decent elsewhere they will get 1st this gen again. You're being the fanboy...
edit: well it seems he got banned so nvm
SuperBowser
Smash Lord
Haha really? That's kinda funny...
Just so this isnt a waste of a post I'll make some more random guestimates. Wii can get the most sales in japan by riding on the popularity of the DS and at worst, it's gonna be a close 2nd (maybe 10% difference). But the wii still has an uphill battle elsewhere. DS has only just started to do well in america and europe and the wii is gonna be a tougher sell. Nintendo's main focus is probably to simply increase marketshate in these areas from the lowly 13% it currently has. Not outdo the competition.
Despite all the ciriticism, sony can still trounce the competition this gen. They still have their brand name and,, a good amount of support from developers and people have ignored the ridiculous price. Europe is more or less sonyland and the PS3 is going to sell at least a respectable amount in japan. People may just wait for a price drop than invest in another console if sony's hype machine works out. I know lots of people are always coming into the shops asking about pre orders and aren't phased by the price...
I haven't paid much attention to the sales of the 360 so I don't really know how well/okay/bad it is doing. But at best it is going to get 2nd this gen, probably 3rd because it has sold so poorly in japan again. But its marketshare should increase, which is more important than the position I guess.
America probably has the most to be played for in this gen. Any of the three consoles could take the lead and we can't really make predictions till the first/second year has played out.
Just so this isnt a waste of a post I'll make some more random guestimates. Wii can get the most sales in japan by riding on the popularity of the DS and at worst, it's gonna be a close 2nd (maybe 10% difference). But the wii still has an uphill battle elsewhere. DS has only just started to do well in america and europe and the wii is gonna be a tougher sell. Nintendo's main focus is probably to simply increase marketshate in these areas from the lowly 13% it currently has. Not outdo the competition.
Despite all the ciriticism, sony can still trounce the competition this gen. They still have their brand name and,, a good amount of support from developers and people have ignored the ridiculous price. Europe is more or less sonyland and the PS3 is going to sell at least a respectable amount in japan. People may just wait for a price drop than invest in another console if sony's hype machine works out. I know lots of people are always coming into the shops asking about pre orders and aren't phased by the price...
I haven't paid much attention to the sales of the 360 so I don't really know how well/okay/bad it is doing. But at best it is going to get 2nd this gen, probably 3rd because it has sold so poorly in japan again. But its marketshare should increase, which is more important than the position I guess.
America probably has the most to be played for in this gen. Any of the three consoles could take the lead and we can't really make predictions till the first/second year has played out.
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Bungie is owned by Microsoft, so while they are a separate company, they can't make games for other consoles, like Rare. Would that be first or third?
Edit:
Edit:
As of December the 360 sold 10 million units, worldwide. That's not a bad start for the console that began last generation. And by the launch of the Wii and PS3, they will have to REALLY push some consoles if they want to even be contenders.
SuperBowser
Smash Lord
The 360 can do well (that acutally sounds like a LOT of units?), but there's just no way its going to finish 1st this gen... To acheive that it has to actually do something in japan.
Crimson, Microsoft's goals are to sell 10 million by THIS December. They just recently passed 5 million sales (3.3 million in the US, 1.3 million in Europe, very little in Japan ). But yeah, Microsoft wants a 10 million unit head start by the time the PS3 and Wii launch. It looks like they'll be able to achieve that, especially since the 360 is starting to have a steady inflow of games, so people who haven't been picking it up because there's no big name titles will now pick one up for Saint's Row (Just a GTA clone, but it'll be huge), Dead Rising, Gears of War, etc.
And Rare, Bungie and Lionhead are first party companies because they went from being individual companies to being divisions of Microsoft. A second party is a company that can develop for any of the consoles but chooses to only develop for one.
). But yeah, Microsoft wants a 10 million unit head start by the time the PS3 and Wii launch. It looks like they'll be able to achieve that, especially since the 360 is starting to have a steady inflow of games, so people who haven't been picking it up because there's no big name titles will now pick one up for Saint's Row (Just a GTA clone, but it'll be huge), Dead Rising, Gears of War, etc.And Rare, Bungie and Lionhead are first party companies because they went from being individual companies to being divisions of Microsoft. A second party is a company that can develop for any of the consoles but chooses to only develop for one.
Paranoid_Android
Smash Lord
I really can't tell how they'll all sell. Obviously the PS3 and XBox360 will sell more after the prices drop, but how will the Wii perform? I think Nintendo's vision of making the gaming machine a household item, and not just for gamers is going to backfire on them: If my grandma can't check her email, she's not going to pick up a pointer and started playing virtual ping-pong. On the other hand, I have found that (at least from the people I have talked to) the Wii is extremely looked-forward-to by hardcore gamers. In the end, though, I think the PS3 and the 360 will take lead by selling consoles to people who can't really appreciate them (Not that none of the hardcore gamers aren't getting multiple systems, but I know a lot of stupid people that are drawn to system specs rather than games).
Each system has something to offer.
Each system has something to offer.
kaid
Smash Master
People always argue about how graphics may or may not be reaching a saturation point, but I think people are missing an important point.
I think we've reached the point where the consoles's power can no longer limit the gameplay available.
For this, I cite Ubisoft's game, Assasin's Creed.
Your character mingles with crowds of 60-odd AI-controlled people, each with their own "wander-objectives" that vary independantly with time and what happens around it. (for instance, after a certian amount of time, an AI goes looking for the Market. But if the crowd is too thick there, it might chang it's mind and do something else it should be doing)
In addition, any protrusion, however tiny, is fully mapped and can be used for climbing... and AI guards are just as able to climb them as you are.
And there's talk of porting this game to the "weaker" Xbox 360.
When you get right down to it, there isn't really much more you can do to make a game FUN with extra processing speed, beyond a certian point. I assert that games like Kamino (with the massive, realtime battle going the entire game) and Assasin's Creed are beginning to reach that boundry, of diminishing returns. We might not be there yet, but we're getting close. Once we do, only Graphics can improve.
I'm not saying Games will start to suck. But just because Spore 3 might be able to realtime an entire galaxy's life on the cellular level, doesn't mean it's going to be any more fun than Spore 1.
Wii is taking a different approch adding more ways to have fun, which lets them extend the possible gameplay for a given processing speed. However, this does not allow them to magically pass the limit... it just gives them more room to "play around" before they reach it.
Once the Gameplay and Input are maxed out, all that's left is output- Graphics, sound, and rumble. Later generations may add new outputs- directional force-feedback, true 3d images (VirtualBoy style) and other immersion tools... but when you get right down to it, will it be any FUN?
I think we've reached the point where the consoles's power can no longer limit the gameplay available.
For this, I cite Ubisoft's game, Assasin's Creed.
Your character mingles with crowds of 60-odd AI-controlled people, each with their own "wander-objectives" that vary independantly with time and what happens around it. (for instance, after a certian amount of time, an AI goes looking for the Market. But if the crowd is too thick there, it might chang it's mind and do something else it should be doing)
In addition, any protrusion, however tiny, is fully mapped and can be used for climbing... and AI guards are just as able to climb them as you are.
And there's talk of porting this game to the "weaker" Xbox 360.
When you get right down to it, there isn't really much more you can do to make a game FUN with extra processing speed, beyond a certian point. I assert that games like Kamino (with the massive, realtime battle going the entire game) and Assasin's Creed are beginning to reach that boundry, of diminishing returns. We might not be there yet, but we're getting close. Once we do, only Graphics can improve.
I'm not saying Games will start to suck. But just because Spore 3 might be able to realtime an entire galaxy's life on the cellular level, doesn't mean it's going to be any more fun than Spore 1.
Wii is taking a different approch adding more ways to have fun, which lets them extend the possible gameplay for a given processing speed. However, this does not allow them to magically pass the limit... it just gives them more room to "play around" before they reach it.
Once the Gameplay and Input are maxed out, all that's left is output- Graphics, sound, and rumble. Later generations may add new outputs- directional force-feedback, true 3d images (VirtualBoy style) and other immersion tools... but when you get right down to it, will it be any FUN?
Rare is not a first party. It's is a second party, because it was originally a independant developer until being bought out. Second-parties are owned by first-parties. This is the only reason they develop only for one system. Examples of Nintendo second-parties are Camelot and HAL Labs.
Wikipedia- Second-party developer. said:
Second parties develop for a single console by choice. Sometimes they are partially owned by the company but this is not always the case.
What Chill said.
kaid
Smash Master
*feels ignored*
(please, I spent time on my last post... repond?)
(please, I spent time on my last post... repond?)
What I said is what you said, he's just being weird. Yeah, that's a nice way to put it.
Vulpine51
Smash Lord
Dont worry Kaid. Your post wont go unoticed.
I really dont see this limit as much as a problem. As long as there are high quality games to be played, people will enjoy playing them.
If/when we reach this limit on gameplay. It will not be the demise of games as we know it. Lets look at movies for example. The way we watch movies has just about reached it's limit. Today we have color, surround sound, HD, and in some cases 3D. All of these have been around for a long time, but does that stop you from taking your friends/family to the movies? Ofcourse not. You usually dont go to the movies just for the viewing experience. You go because you want to see a story thats going to make you laugh, cry, scream or get excited.
I really dont see this limit as much as a problem. As long as there are high quality games to be played, people will enjoy playing them.
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