Social The MKGD: The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated

[Superbat]

OOOK

 

[warionumbah2]

is a character I think we're at a disadvantage against, but I'm not sure how active the Yoshi board is atm.

Nothing more than 55:45 imo, he struggles to kill and his throws are terrible. They have low kill power and he can't follow up at high percents.

His neutral is better though and its hard to get in and his fair into jab is hard to punish, but today i played a Yoshi with HSD and i consistently beat him in neutral because he focuses on DA too much and HSD is hard to avoid on reaction especially when he throws out a sh aerial.

All MK needs is an option to get in and put Yoshi in a disadvantage state, MKs bair beats his aerials and comes out faster than any of Yoshi's frontal aerials. He can't do much to HSD off stage. We lose on FD though but MK wins in customs we are at a disadvantage without our HSD.

The next MU thread is coming soon, guys. I've had mid-terms and papers all week on top of work so I'm more than a little swamped. Today's the last day of mid-terms at least.
Unless there's any objections, is up next.

Nice, another good MU for MK.

 

[W.A.C.]

I tried experimenting with HSD and still absolutely hate that move. I died for some of the dumbest reasons, like bouncing off the edge of the stage and having my opponent fall out of my drill while drilling them off stage. I've also dropped Shieldbreaker Drill after doing some tests with a friend where it became clear that it's pretty easy to roll out of the drill, which makes that move a pointless alternative unless your opponent doesn't think to roll. Ito pointed out this flaw earlier in the thread, but no-one bothered to roll out of my drill until recently. Overall, I'd say HSD is probably Meta Knight's only custom that might be worth using, but that's only if you're willing to deal with its unreliability. If it weren't for that custom move, I'd say Meta Knight probably has the worst custom moves in the game. So I'll just stick with his default control scheme for now on.

 

[warionumbah2]

I played over 15 matches most of them being on small stages like Battlefield, not once did i SD because of HSD.

Also you need to actually space with this move. You'll forever hate this move and see MK as a bottom character so long as you don't use it right, same goes for mach tornado where some complain about it not being braindead like Brawl.

Prepare to have alot of hard matches(and loses) with default in the powerful exploit(custom) scene, i wish you luck.

 

[W.A.C.]

I'll use the move when a character is about to use a smash attack and other scenarios when HSD can override their attack in what should be a safe scenario for Meta Knight. Sometimes they'll stay in the drill for most of the attack, but slip out at the worst time for whatever reason. It's frustrating and makes the move feel very unreliable. Not to mention not being to angle it gets rid of some of the options I used to have with the move, some of which are demonstrated well in this video by ZeRo.

 

[warionumbah2]

Its called spacing and there's other instances where you throw out HSD so it can hit reliably. That video is a prime example of making poor decisions, he could've easily made it back with shuttle loop.

That video does not downplay HSD(or MK in general but alas that vid will fuel even more hate on him and his viability), it only shows what can happen if you make silly decisions when safer options are presented for you.

I think you're referring to a different video by him.

I didn't read your post correctly sorry, first of all the people he played against are most likely not good some being right from FG. Second of all he wasn't facing custom characters, drill is only good for stage spiking anything else isn't rewarding. Drilling someone off the blastzone rarely happens on high level or even mid level players.

I said this before but drill rush will lose this ability once people stop being stupid and underestimating MK off stage. This will happen the moment people see MK has a good character.

 

[W.A.C.]

I think you're referring to a different video by him.

 

[AlanHaTe]

Haven't been able to test a single custom ever, hell, I can't even play the game as I don't even have a WiiU... but HSD seems pretty good, the only thing that could be weird for me at first is to get used to a drill that can't change directions, but doable.
The one I really want to try is the Coaster Loop, it sure takes away the option of killing with Uair strings > Shuttle Loop, but the fact that it has pretty stupid horizontal knockback kind of reminds me of Brawl's Shuttle Loop lol.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Decided to play around w/ meta knight's up throw and the hitbox that he has when he's falling down. It turns out that up throw's falling hitbox can KO ridiculously early on battlefield's top platform (around 60%). This obviously has no use in singles, but it could be extremely useful in doubles / FFAs.

 

[W.A.C.]

Decided to play around w/ meta knight's up throw and the hitbox that he has when he's falling down. It turns out that up throw's falling can KO ridiculously early on battlefield's top platform (around 60%). This obviously has no use in singles, but it could be extremely useful in doubles / FFAs.

How is that not useful in singles?

 

[ILOVESMASH]

How is that not useful in singles?

The falling hit box of Metaknight's up throw can only hit opponent's that he has not grabbed.
Ex: Metaknight is fighting a team with Mario and Luigi. He grabs mario and then uses Up throw. When he's falling down after he uses his up throw, he hits luigi.

 

[AlanHaTe]

I noticed that some time ago when I had the chance to play some dubs. It was super fun to watch Pikachu die as we didn't know this could happen. I haven't played dubs since that day, but I'll try to remember that for the next time.

 

[Deleted member]

How's everyone doing? It's pretty quiet in here haha.

 

[Superbat]

Im okay. Have free time this week because I'm on my spring Break. Trying to improve my my fundamentals with metaknight and falco. @ ZTD | TECHnology Glad to have you here hope you stick around

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

@ Katakiri has me curious about MK after his performance at a tournament I helped throw in MI (4th out 68). Looks fun. I'll be poking around here.

 

[Katakiri]

Shaq's really taking this site in a positive direction. We're finally "one-unit" or else.

@ ZTD | TECHnology If you like combing characters across the stage and through the air like ragdolls, MK's a blast. He has one of, if not the, largest combo-game in Smash 4, a solid set of KO tools (All Smashes, B-Air, N-Air, Up-B, Cape, and even Nado with rage), and a solid off-stage gimping game. His downfall is his lack of options in neutral but Dash Attack goes a long way in patching that up.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Shaq's really taking this site in a positive direction. We're finally "one-unit" or else.

@ ZTD | TECHnology If you like combing characters across the stage and through the air like ragdolls, MK's a blast. He has one of, if not the, largest combo-game in Smash 4, a solid set of KO tools (All Smashes, B-Air, N-Air, Up-B, Cape, and even Nado with rage), and a solid off-stage gimping game. His downfall is his lack of options in neutral but Dash Attack goes a long way in patching that up.

Yeah he's quite an interesting character. He's not as fluid as he was in Brawl but his toolset is strong. He's way stronger of a character than I originally thought. Those moments where you combo into Shuttle Loop for the kill feel very good. I can see him possibly rising up to Top 10-15 status with time and more representation.

My question to you is: Where's a good place to start for getting a feel for these strings? I'm noticing a distinct lack of a detailed guide.

 

[Superbat]

What the faq just happened to Smashboards. Hello? April Fools lol. Completely forgot about that.

Technical Chase- http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...eneral-discussion.370875/page-5#post-18421705 This helped me alot

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

What the faq just happened to Smashboards. Hello? April Fools lol. Completely forgot about that.

Technical Chase- http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...eneral-discussion.370875/page-5#post-18421705 This helped me alot

You are the homie.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Whoever changed this thread's title, I love you forever.

 

[Superbat]

IF YOU N**** DONT VOTE FOR WOLF THEN WE AINT FRIENDS

 

[warionumbah2]

IF YOU N**** DONT VOTE FOR WOLF THEN WE AINT FRIENDS

They should copy and paste his old voice, i liked his cool ass voice., But real talk Wolf is the best for Samurai since he can copy and paste his Brawl stuff then tweak some it.

He's got my vote.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

So I'm playing against a Lucario and he goes off stage to try to finish me off.

I Shuttle Loop to the ledge and ledge snap. During this, I noticed the Lucario is in hitstun from being hit by the first hit of Loop and he's being slowly lifted to me. So I fall back and Bair and kill him at like 80.

WHAT IS THIS CHARACTER? He does so many silly things. I thought he was bad before but no...his combo game is ridiculous and I love it.

 

[Katakiri]

IF YOU N**** DONT VOTE FOR WOLF THEN WE AINT FRIENDS

They should copy and paste his old voice, i liked his cool *** voice., But real talk Wolf is the best for Samurai since he can copy and paste his Brawl stuff then tweak some it.

He's got my vote.

You both made terrible decisions today.

 

[warionumbah2]

WHAT IS THIS CHARACTER? .

To casuals: Nerfed Knight

To SWF list and people who blindly agree with the list: A low tier(below Kirby smh)

90% of the community: Mid tier(I hate it wehn people say this when their reasoning as to why he's there is BS)

I wish it was me being super negative but it seems to be the case, also @MK mains the patch is coming in 2 weeks lol i doubt MK will get nerfed since he got buffed real good in the last one and MK isn't a popular character to begin with in terms of competitive play or FG(which Samurai looks at for data lol). Plus Sakurai bias on Kirby/Icarus characters.

You both made terrible decisions today.

I don't understand, Wolf is easy to port into Sm4sh look at Lucas especially when he and Lucas have their specials as customs(Fox and Ness).

I see these DLC characters as another winning MU for our Bat lol, stepping stones at best.

 

[Deleted member]

If I'm unable to vote for Ice Climbers, then my vote will definitely go to the Splatoon Inkling.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Whatever you do, don't vote for shaq! He'd make meta knight unviable.

 

[LostinpinK]

I sincerely hope that Sakurai's team doesn't read @ warionumbah2 and blindly follows japanese / swf tier list so we don't get nerfed :D.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I sincerely hope that Sakurai's team doesn't read @ warionumbah2 and blindly follows japanese / swf tier list so we don't get nerfed :D.

That being said, I really doubt they have an actual research team.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'm gonna give the bat ball a shot this weekend and see what happens. My scene is super active and we always have at least one tournament a week. I'm very eager to test him out.

I feel like my strengths as a player translate very well in this character.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Considering Meta Knight's low tier list placing and sakurai's bias towards the kirby series, I think its safe to say the next patch will give him some buffs. Here's some buffs I hope Meta Knight recieves in the next patch.

• Increase Sword hitboxes to what the sword trails showed in 1.0.3
• Decrease landing lag of Fair and Bair
• Increase KBS of Up Throw and Back Throw
• Decease endlag of Tornado
• Make his Jab like in Brawl where it hit from both sides
• Decrease end lag of jab

 

[Superbat]

I'm gonna give the bat ball a shot this weekend and see what happens. My scene is super active and we always have at least one tournament a week. I'm very eager to test him out.

I feel like my strengths as a player translate very well in this character.

The metaknight alliance grows again. Hope do you good man.

 

[W.A.C.]

The change I want the most is for all of his free fall states to allow him to regrab the ledge, but those changes would be great too.

 

[warionumbah2]

Having his aerials have less landing lag will make MK too good, he'll break into top 10 and people will scream 'OP' because sh bair will setup MKs strongest kill moves such as F-Smash and Grounded Shuttle Loop. MKs neutral game will be silly only thing he'll lack is sword range, as much as i love the dominance Mk would have, i don't think its fair for other mains unless they get buffed.

A frame 7 disjoint aerial that spikes you into the ground to set up combo's and kill moves. They took away his sh aerials for a reason, his ground game is stupidly good already. Tornado is already a good move but i guess making the end lag less bad will make it easier for those who can't use it properly(closing the gap between Mk users since Tornado is needed heavily against good players).

They might fix his hitboxes on D-Smash for example, fix his DC end lag glitch,free fall from tornado/drill/cape to snap the ledge or maybe buff his damage output by 2% or something. But yea he has a high chance of not getting nerfed since he ain't janky like other high tiers and people still have low opinions on him which i admit is a blessing because lack of MU experience = easy 3 or 2 stocks.

And no matter how the meta developes MK will always be above average because he's got strong fundamentals.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I kinda hope they leave MK alone. He's honestly quite balanced as he is now.

Also I don't know how many MKs post videos besides Katakiri but I've got a capture card myself. I'm gonna try to money match people and record those as well as my tournament sets using him. The best way to get him up to speed is just go balls in. I'll let you guys know what happens tomorrow. My goal is to get a few quality sets recorded for critique/analysis.

I think my search for that character I've been looking for may be coming to an end. But I've gotta really test this and see how I do against our scene's other good players (I'm somewhere around top 12-15 currently and our scene is HUGE).

 

[Mewtwo929]

As Iron Sharpens Iron, Meta Knight Sharpens Meta Knight.

Let's fight, My NNID is Joestoes.

 

[AmishTechnology]

I've been playing a lot of secondary Falco, he fits my playstyle so much but it's a shame just how unviable he is lol.

Well, Falco is a character who relies a lot on RAR bair, so sometimes I keep the habit of RAR bair'ing when I suddenly switch back to MK during a session. Kind of risky in the neutral, but it's great when you anticipate/hard read an incoming aerial, attack, or something else punishable from the enemy and counter with a RAR bair for the KO or edge guard transition. RAR bair is also incredible for edge guarding guaranteed against stuff like Ganon side-B. RAR bair, use it except when you're gonna get shielded lol!, lingers quite a while, does decent damage for a Meta Knight attack, and good knockback scaling on the third hit, leads to jankiness with only the 1st/2nd hit connecting, fun fun.

Man, give Meta Knight autocancel on even just one of the following - bair, fair, nair - and his neutral will be so much more fun and powerful. It'll maybe make him good, but I don't think that alone will make people scream OP lol. It's not stupid like throw -> undi'd Diddy upair, you still need to land this attack and chase that tech or hope they miss. And an obvious SH bair/far is still going to be punished, SH or not, because Meta Knight has a horrible jab, won't be nearly as brainless as Mario d-air into jab (which is also punishable and not OP).

 

[warionumbah2]

It would make people scream OP because he'll automatically have one of the strongest neutrals in the game. Top tiers have one of the best ground game out of the cast, MK surprise surprise has one of the best ground game in the game.

Dash grab like Falcon. Check.
Follow ups out of all throws. Check
Kill setup out of all throws besides back throw. Check
Dash attack that cross up shields. Check
Dash attack has deceptive range and lunges MK forward. Check
Follow ups and Kill setups out of Dash. Check
9th fastest dash in the game. Check
Long initial dash. Check
Decent walk speed. Check
OOS options. Check

Add SH aerials into an already stellar ground game and you've got yourself a top tier, you'll only find his neutral fun because he'll stomp most of the cast and his skill floor will be lower than it is now. Just because something isn't as silly as Diddys up throw into uair doesn't make it any less silly, SH bair can be punished? How do you know? We can only guess on how safe it'll be without landing lag but its a fact that it would set up deadly combo's. Unless Sakurai is dumb he won't give MK his aerials back for balance sake.

If he gets it back more power to us i would embrace the power, but i can see new players popping up only because of his new dominant neutral where he's only lacking in 2 things: projectile and range. If we get our range back good Lord...

Taking sh aerials away is a deliberate limitation Sakurai put in to keep MK in check(and range).

 

[Superbat]

What do you mid-top level metaknight players do to improve your gameplay. I feel like I have a trash metaknight and I don't know what to improve on.
No one wanted to answer this question in the metaknight Q/A so I'm posting it here.

 

[LostinpinK]

What do you mid-top level metaknight players do to improve your gameplay. I feel like I have a trash metaknight and I don't know what to improve on.
No one wanted to answer this question in the metaknight Q/A so I'm posting it here.

When practicing, I like to think in terms (dis)advantage / neutral.
-Getting out of disadvantage state is easy with meta knight, but make sure you do it correctly. DJ after hit instead of airdodging in most cases for example, since we have infinite double jumps :D
-Advantage state is slightly more complex, you have to basically make sure that you always do optimal damage and follow ups. Ito says it all the time, but when you get a grab for example you have to dish out optimal damage, that is to say accept to Uthrow if you can't combo them out of Dthrow. More generally, make sure that you know by heart what follow up is garanteed on whom, at what percent. It's more of a feeling, but just make sure that you do optimal damage each time you get a hit. Even if you do have a follow up, check if you don't have a better one (for instance, dash attack usmash works on fox à 0% but so does dash attack tornado). Know who you can edgeguard and how, and who you can't. It can be done by reading stuff here, but I try it yourself too. Personally, I have troubles with timing my Dair on recoveries so I'll Bair or wait on the edge for example.

Working on those 2 points is still fairly easy, but nothing can be done without the neutral game. It would require a huge write-up but I hope that you already know the basics. Try to have a critic point of view on your approaches / punishes, try not to be predictable. Learn when to go in, when to avoid combat by jumping around / rolling back after a dash (MK's backroll is great for this), and when to punish a failed approach attempt (ftilt, dtilt, aerial...).

Here you go, I hope this helps. I can't really help you more without a bunch of videos of your MK.

I've been playing a lot of secondary Falco, he fits my playstyle so much but it's a shame just how unviable he is lol.

Well, Falco is a character who relies a lot on RAR bair, so sometimes I keep the habit of RAR bair'ing when I suddenly switch back to MK during a session. Kind of risky in the neutral, but it's great when you anticipate/hard read an incoming aerial, attack, or something else punishable from the enemy and counter with a RAR bair for the KO or edge guard transition. RAR bair is also incredible for edge guarding guaranteed against stuff like Ganon side-B. RAR bair, use it except when you're gonna get shielded lol!, lingers quite a while, does decent damage for a Meta Knight attack, and good knockback scaling on the third hit, leads to jankiness with only the 1st/2nd hit connecting, fun fun.

Man, give Meta Knight autocancel on even just one of the following - bair, fair, nair - and his neutral will be so much more fun and powerful. It'll maybe make him good, but I don't think that alone will make people scream OP lol. It's not stupid like throw -> undi'd Diddy upair, you still need to land this attack and chase that tech or hope they miss. And an obvious SH bair/far is still going to be punished, SH or not, because Meta Knight has a horrible jab, won't be nearly as brainless as Mario d-air into jab (which is also punishable and not OP).

I really like to do this too, it beats a LOT of aerials and surprises people a lot. Can be FF'd to follow up with ftilt or DA according to the DI, regardless of the tech.
I also think giving an autocancelled aerial would denature MK's archetype and make him really strong in neutral. But someplace in my heart, I do hope for a slight buff in damage or range on a few moves just for comfort.